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Bearings [message #327803] Fri, 05 January 2018 11:15 Go to next message
Bierman is currently offline  Bierman   United States
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Registered: May 2017
Location: SW Florida
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Newbie question, Exactly what is needed to replace the front/rear wheel bearings. Are coaches using Tinkem bearings, Applied has a kit, but is that for both wheels, I do not see anything about the rear, rear bearings same as front?



Member, GMCI, Sunshine Statesman and Dixielanders 26' 1978 Eleganza II, new(rebuilt by Sirum) 403, Lenzi hubs and knuckles, front end by Ferrara
Re: Bearings [message #327805 is a reply to message #327803] Fri, 05 January 2018 11:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scott Nutter is currently offline  Scott Nutter   United States
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A lot of people will just take off the front knuckle and send it to Dave Lenzi to replace the bearings and install a grease zerk if wanted.
Jim K at Applied has the bearings, as you know. You can also have Jim B at the Co-op put you a care package together for the rear or front bearings.
I believe Cinabar has the timken bearings.

The rear are somewhat easier, sorta like a trailer.

If it was me I would only use the USA made bearings. The Chinese bearings are about half the cost, but I've read that are prone to failure.

Good luck,
Scott


Scott Nutter 1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, Dave Lenzi super duty mid axle disc brakes, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera installed MSD Atomic EFI Houston, Texas
Re: Bearings [message #327809 is a reply to message #327803] Fri, 05 January 2018 12:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JohnL455 is currently offline  JohnL455   United States
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Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
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The front is not a shade tree job. The rear proceedure is often missread, so read and understand the lash setting proceedure to the T or they will fail with possible wheel assembly loss. After torquing while rotating you loosten the nut without disturbing. Then finger tighten only, if holes line up then pin it. If not then loosen the nut to next hole or alternate hole whichever comes first on the spindle and pin there. Best to study the holes on spindle as they are 1/2 the spacing of the castilated nut when holes are alternated.

John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
Re: Bearings [message #327811 is a reply to message #327803] Fri, 05 January 2018 12:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Russell K. is currently offline  Russell K.   United States
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Registered: October 2016
Location: Dunedin, Florida
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Kevin,
The rear wheel bearings are fairly easy to replace with basic tools, just don't over tighten the castle nut. Follow the manual when tightening it. I replaced all four rear wheel bearings when I did the rear brakes (all new parts) in a weekend. As you know, I'm a newbie too (August 2016), and an unskilled, very amateur, shade tree mechanic. I bought the rear wheel bearing kit from JimK, and it included Timken bearings and seals for all four rear wheels. You can also get them from Jim Bounds or Jeff Sirum. I have not replaced my front wheel bearings, as I don't have the bearing puller, but there is a loaner puller available. For the front, you can buy rebuilt knuckles with new bearings already pressed in that also have the zerk fitting for maintenance greasing. Truth be told, I'll probably ask Jeff Sirum or Jim Bounds to do my front bearings when the time comes.


1978 Eleganza II, Dunedin, Florida
Re: Bearings [message #327820 is a reply to message #327803] Fri, 05 January 2018 14:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
77Royale   United States
Messages: 461
Registered: June 2014
Location: Mid Michigan
Karma: 6
Senior Member
If you dont know the maintenance history of the front bearings I would strongly encourage you to get the knuckles to one of the pros out there who know exactly what they are doing. Your in FL so you have a few options somewhat locally. When I first got my coach I was blessed to find Dave Lenzi close to me and even more blessed to find a fellow GMCer to help me remove the knuckles. For starters a 3/4 inch drive breaker bar and a 6 foot cheater pipe just to get the CV nuts loose... from there it was somewhat easier. You also need a large torque wrench.

Having the time I was fortunate to listen to Dave's explanation about the front bearings, GMs designs and what can happen over time. Long story short, if your bearings have wear or have not been properly maintained they can wallow the opening in the knuckle a bit. What this means is even if you put in new bearings and grease them correctly you may still have problems down the road. Dave addresses this with his rebuilds and you KNOW its correct. My knuckles, hubs, bearings and front rotors were all in bad shape.. Needless to say a full blown set of knuckles, hubs, bearings, seals, grease fittings, AND new front rotors all put together correctly, cost less than a tow bill from the side of the road. I got a great explanation of everything, beautiful parts, expert workmanship and peace of mind. Easily one of the best and safest upgrades to the coach. Again if you dont know for sure, I would encourage you to let a pro do that job on the fronts. If things fail there it gets bad very quickly.

As mentioned on the rear bearings, you need to follow the procedure to the letter in the manual. Keep all the bearings with their respective hubs, or just do one wheel at a time. They dont mix and match. If anything is scored, looks burned, etc. Replace both the bearing it's race. New bearings and old races dont mix. Id go with Synpower or Mobil 1 grease. Invest in a bearing grease packer as well as there are 8 bearings to do. If you dont know the condition of the rear brakes be prepared for a full break job including wheel cylinders, spring kit, shoes. The works. Bet on at least one or two brake fittings or bleeders to round off. You might as well tackle those when your doing the bearings. SKF brand seals are still from what I understand passing the test. A search on the forum will get you the part number and the procedure to test the seals for correctness. There was also a pretty recent posting about how far to drive the new seals in correctly.

Good Luck and keep at it. Learn as much as you can from others.



77 Royale, Rear Dry Bath. 403, 3.55 Final Drive, Lenzi goodies, Patterson carb and dizzy. Mid Michigan
Re: Bearings [message #327844 is a reply to message #327820] Fri, 05 January 2018 21:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jerry Sitzlar is currently offline  Jerry Sitzlar   United States
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Registered: February 2013
Location: Lenoir City, TN
Karma: 4
Senior Member

Kevin,

In case you haven't found out yet, to answer your question: the bearing kit from Jim K is for one front wheel, it includes Timken USA bearings, races, and inside and outside double seals. It is expensive but you will get the best and correct parts. Jim also has the kits for the rear wheels, again Timken USA bearings. Front and rear bearings have different part numbers.

This past summer, I replaced all of the bearings and seals on the rear wheels, in addition to replacing the entire brake system to include stainless steel lines, booster, etc, etc.

This past fall I took my coach to Chuck Boyd's Garagemahall and let him do the bearing replacement on the front wheels. He has the tools and especially the expertise to do the job. I helped the best I could. I haven't driven my coach much because of not knowing the condition of all of the wheel bearings, plus I had to fight the steering to keep it out of the ditch. After removing the front wheels , Chuck found the cv axle nuts were actually only finger tight, a wrench was not needed to remove them. The seals had hardened and broken apart, the bearings had traces of metal filings in the grease (two colors of grease), one hub was out of specs and had to be replaced with a spare Chuck had. After a good cleaning, Chuck drilled and installed grease zerks on both knuckles. Everything was cleaned ,greased and put back together with the proper torque on the axle nuts. As always with Chuck, after finding those problems, he checked the alignment of the steering box, it was 90 degrees out. After we got that straight, he drilled and installed a grease zerk on the top steering u joint, then on to aligning the toe on the front wheels. Also somewhere in the past a PO had installed a large heavy duty steering damper on the coach. It had leaked and was shot, I removed that beast as I was actually fighting it to turn to the right. I'm glad I live close to Chuck.

The PO I had bought the coach from had taken it to two garages to have work done on the front suspension , one had been a GMC motorhome shop and the other was a heavy truck repair shop. One of them had neglected to torque the cv axle nuts and it could have been disastrous.

So, follow the advice of the fellow GMCers and I would also recommend getting expert help on the front end.

Cheers,
Jerry


Jerry Sitzlar..... 77 Eleganza II, Twin bed, dry bath...... Lenoir City, TN (near Knoxville)
Re: [GMCnet] Bearings [message #327848 is a reply to message #327844] Sat, 06 January 2018 00:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimk is currently offline  jimk   United States
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
Senior Member
Before Dave even owned a GMC, People like Roland wilber and Ken Toma had
the front Bearing and Knuckle figured out.
I was very fortunat to learn a lot from the two back in 1984.
We know how to rebuild the front knuckles and space the bearigs with
correct spacer AFTER trial fitting them on the HUB.
Plus Lenze uses the flimsy outter seal. while Sirum and we use the Beefy
outer seal.
I warrentey the assembly for 80-100 miles without greasing them during the
use.
The play comes from the Knuckle allowing the bearing assembly to rock as
the bore are not tight from the start.
Our techs are always ammased to so a uit we did 80,000 miles come in as
there is no play as the knucke is still tight.
So we know the front bearing and knuckle well and in some ways better than
some.

On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 7:46 PM, Jerry Sitzlar via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:

>
> Kevin,
>
> In case you haven't found out yet, to answer your question: the bearing
> kit from Jim K is for one front wheel, it includes Timken USA bearings,
> races, and inside and outside double seals. It is expensive but you will
> get the best and correct parts. Jim also has the kits for the rear wheels,
> again Timken USA bearings. Front and rear bearings have different part
> numbers.
>
> This past summer, I replaced all of the bearings and seals on the rear
> wheels, in addition to replacing the entire brake system to include
> stainless
> steel lines, booster, etc, etc.
>
> This past fall I took my coach to Chuck Boyd's Garagemahall and let him do
> the bearing replacement on the front wheels. He has the tools and
> especially the expertise to do the job. I helped the best I could. I
> haven't driven my coach much because of not knowing the condition of all of
> the
> wheel bearings, plus I had to fight the steering to keep it out of the
> ditch. After removing the front wheels , Chuck found the cv axle nuts were
> actually only finger tight, a wrench was not needed to remove them. The
> seals had hardened and broken apart, the bearings had traces of metal
> filings
> in the grease (two colors of grease), one hub was out of specs and had to
> be replaced with a spare Chuck had. After a good cleaning, Chuck drilled
> and installed grease zerks on both knuckles. Everything was cleaned
> ,greased and put back together with the proper torque on the axle nuts. As
> always with Chuck, after finding those problems, he checked the alignment
> of the steering box, it was 90 degrees out. After we got that straight, he
> drilled and installed a grease zerk on the top steering u joint, then on
> to aligning the toe on the front wheels. Also somewhere in the past a PO
> had installed a large heavy duty steering damper on the coach. It had
> leaked and was shot, I removed that beast as I was actually fighting it to
> turn to the right. I'm glad I live close to Chuck.
>
> The PO I had bought the coach from had taken it to two garages to have
> work done on the front suspension , one had been a GMC motorhome shop and
> the
> other was a heavy truck repair shop. One of them had neglected to torque
> the cv axle nuts and it could have been disastrous.
>
> So, follow the advice of the fellow GMCers and I would also recommend
> getting expert help on the front end.
>
> Cheers,
> Jerry
> --
> Jerry Sitzlar.....
> 77 Eleganza II, Twin bed, dry bath......
> Lenoir City, TN
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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>



--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
Re: Bearings [message #327853 is a reply to message #327803] Sat, 06 January 2018 05:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bierman is currently offline  Bierman   United States
Messages: 46
Registered: May 2017
Location: SW Florida
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Member
Involved, to say the least, and with safety in mind I think , no I know, I will leave the front bearings to the professionals... Thank you all for your input and guidance.
As far as the rear four wheels, Jim K can you provide me the rear bearings Timken part numbers, as my son and I are going to tackle this job, just need the Timken part numbers.Appreciate it.

Thank you all for your continued support and guidance, much appreciated




Member, GMCI, Sunshine Statesman and Dixielanders 26' 1978 Eleganza II, new(rebuilt by Sirum) 403, Lenzi hubs and knuckles, front end by Ferrara
Re: Bearings [message #327863 is a reply to message #327803] Sat, 06 January 2018 08:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jhbridges is currently offline  jhbridges   United States
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Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
Senior Member
Be >SURE< to correctly seat the bearings and set the proper end play by using the manual procedure. I did it wrong on one rear wheel on my 23'. That wheel passed me on Interstate 75 one Sunday afternoon about 300 miles after it was installed. Not a fun experience.

--johnny


Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
Re: [GMCnet] Bearings [message #327876 is a reply to message #327863] Sat, 06 January 2018 10:28 Go to previous message
jimk is currently offline  jimk   United States
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
Senior Member
Rob,
I'm not runing down anyone, just pointing out facts.
Just compare the two seals should you aquire the two types.

On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 6:36 AM, Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:

> Be >SURE< to correctly seat the bearings and set the proper end play by
> using the manual procedure. I did it wrong on one rear wheel on my 23'.
> That
> wheel passed me on Interstate 75 one Sunday afternoon about 300 miles
> after it was installed. Not a fun experience.
>
> --johnny
>
> --
> 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> "I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
> in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>



--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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