| Cooling System Corrosion [message #327719] |
Wed, 03 January 2018 18:39  |
Ernest Dankert
Messages: 133
Registered: May 2007
Location: Ogden, New York
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Disclaimer; Must be true I read it on the internet ref. A. Lincoln.
I have successfully used an oxalic acid to clean solder corrosion at the tube ends. It was a 2 part; part A was a cleaner and part B a neutralizer. That 25 years ago; fixed the coolant flow and improved the running temperature. Definitely not recommended for aluminum components and no longer available at Autozone or Advance Auto. At the time I could visually confirm the effectiveness of the treatment.
Here is a nice explanation of corrosion inhibitors
http://www.lytron.com/Tools-and-Technical-Reference/Application-Notes/Preventing-Corrosion-in-Cooling-Systems
There are references to using muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid) to clean cooling system. I would NOT try this venue unless it is a "nothing left to lose" and not under any circumstance with aluminum.
1977 Eleganza II
Ogden NY
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cooling System Corrosion [message #327725 is a reply to message #327719] |
Wed, 03 January 2018 19:28  |
Emery Stora
Messages: 959
Registered: January 2011
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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One thing the article doesn’t tell you is that most coolants including Prestone, Peak and other major brands use corrosion inhibitors that will normally protect for about 3 years and then they begin to be depleted to the point where they are not longer protecting.the system. Some think that they can just buy a can of some sort of inhibitor at an auto parts store and add it to their system. However the antifreeze packaged by the manufacture used a combination of inhibitors, anti-foam agents and water pump seal lubricant that were compatible with each other. Adding an unknown can of inhibitor might cause it to interfere with one of the original components and cause more harm than good. So, it is always a good idea to dump out your radiator and refill with fresh antifreeze and distilled water. This also gets rid of any solids in the system that are a result of the inhibitors reacting with the metals to protect them. The freeze point of the solution will not change but testing your radiator for the freeze point doesn’t tell you the condition of the antifreeze corrosion inhibitors and other necessary additives.
I worked for Dow Chemical back in the 60’s 70’s and early 80’s. At that time Dow was the second largest producer of ethylene glycol automotive antifreeze. Union Carbide (Prestone) was the largest and DuPont (Xerex) was the third.
Since then Dow has purchased Union Carbide and recently merged with DuPont so they are the world’s largest producer of antifreeze.
I used to market Dow antifreeze to the major automotive companies, GM, Ford, etc. I also sold private label to most of the oil companies such as Mobil, Standard Oil, Sun Oil, Quaker and others. Dow sold it to them in their labeled cans.
Back then Dow’s recommendation was to replace the antifreeze in ones vehicle at the end of the second year of use.
I still do that today and have never had a corrosion problem with any vehicle that I have owned.
I also replace the pressure cap every two years at the time I change the antifreeze because most of them loose their pressure holding ability after about two years. This is due to the weakening of the spring and the degradation of the two seals in the cap
Sure, the antifreeze may have lasted longer than two years so I might have spent some money that didn’t have to be spent. But I think that never having had to replace a radiator or water pump due to corrosion over the 39 years I have owned my
GMC has more than offset any extra expense from changing the antifreeze sooner.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
> On Jan 3, 2018, at 5:39 PM, Ernest Dankert wrote:
>
> Disclaimer; Must be true I read it on the internet ref. A. Lincoln.
>
> I have successfully used an oxalic acid to clean solder corrosion at the tube ends. It was a 2 part; part A was a cleaner and part B a neutralizer.
> That 25 years ago; fixed the coolant flow and improved the running temperature. Definitely not recommended for aluminum components and no longer
> available at Autozone or Advance Auto. At the time I could visually confirm the effectiveness of the treatment.
>
> Here is a nice explanation of corrosion inhibitors
>
> http://www.lytron.com/Tools-and-Technical-Reference/Application-Notes/Preventing-Corrosion-in-Cooling-Systems
>
>
> There are references to using muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid) to clean cooling system. I would NOT try this venue unless it is a "nothing left to
> lose" and not under any circumstance with aluminum.
> --
> 1977 Eleganza II
> Ogden NY
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cooling System Corrosion [message #327741 is a reply to message #327725] |
Thu, 04 January 2018 07:47 |
palerider
Messages: 35
Registered: September 2013
Location: Kingsland , Texas
Karma: 1
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Member |
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Ditto what Mr Stora just said. I purchased a 66 pick-up years ago that had sat for 10 or more years inside, with nothing but plain water in the cooling system. I got it running and tried to drive it only to find the thermostat stopped up with rust chunks. After removing and cleaning several times, I drained the system as much as I could, removed the thermostat, and started replacing it with muratic acid. I think I wound up using about two gallons before it was over with. It was an all day process but after flushing, reassembling and new 50-50 mix I drove the truck over 10 years with no problems. As my ole pappy said "if you have good luck s----t will do for brains".....Tom
[Updated on: Thu, 04 January 2018 07:48] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cooling System Corrosion [message #327743 is a reply to message #327725] |
Thu, 04 January 2018 08:51 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Better knock on some wood Emery. ;)
Sully
77 eleganza 2
Bellevue.
On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 5:29 PM Emery Stora wrote:
> One thing the article doesn’t tell you is that most coolants including
> Prestone, Peak and other major brands use corrosion inhibitors that will
> normally protect for about 3 years and then they begin to be depleted to
> the point where they are not longer protecting.the system. Some think that
> they can just buy a can of some sort of inhibitor at an auto parts store
> and add it to their system. However the antifreeze packaged by the
> manufacture used a combination of inhibitors, anti-foam agents and water
> pump seal lubricant that were compatible with each other. Adding an
> unknown can of inhibitor might cause it to interfere with one of the
> original components and cause more harm than good. So, it is always a good
> idea to dump out your radiator and refill with fresh antifreeze and
> distilled water. This also gets rid of any solids in the system that are a
> result of the inhibitors reacting with the metals to protect them. The
> freeze point of the solution will not change but testing your radiator for
> the freeze point doesn’t tell you the condition of the antifreeze corrosion
> inhibitors and other necessary additives.
>
> I worked for Dow Chemical back in the 60’s 70’s and early 80’s. At that
> time Dow was the second largest producer of ethylene glycol automotive
> antifreeze. Union Carbide (Prestone) was the largest and DuPont (Xerex)
> was the third.
> Since then Dow has purchased Union Carbide and recently merged with DuPont
> so they are the world’s largest producer of antifreeze.
>
> I used to market Dow antifreeze to the major automotive companies, GM,
> Ford, etc. I also sold private label to most of the oil companies such as
> Mobil, Standard Oil, Sun Oil, Quaker and others. Dow sold it to them in
> their labeled cans.
>
> Back then Dow’s recommendation was to replace the antifreeze in ones
> vehicle at the end of the second year of use.
> I still do that today and have never had a corrosion problem with any
> vehicle that I have owned.
>
> I also replace the pressure cap every two years at the time I change the
> antifreeze because most of them loose their pressure holding ability after
> about two years. This is due to the weakening of the spring and the
> degradation of the two seals in the cap
>
> Sure, the antifreeze may have lasted longer than two years so I might have
> spent some money that didn’t have to be spent. But I think that never
> having had to replace a radiator or water pump due to corrosion over the 39
> years I have owned my
> GMC has more than offset any extra expense from changing the antifreeze
> sooner.
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Frederick, CO
>
>
>
>> On Jan 3, 2018, at 5:39 PM, Ernest Dankert
> wrote:
>>
>> Disclaimer; Must be true I read it on the internet ref. A. Lincoln.
>>
>> I have successfully used an oxalic acid to clean solder corrosion at the
> tube ends. It was a 2 part; part A was a cleaner and part B a neutralizer.
>> That 25 years ago; fixed the coolant flow and improved the running
> temperature. Definitely not recommended for aluminum components and no
> longer
>> available at Autozone or Advance Auto. At the time I could visually
> confirm the effectiveness of the treatment.
>>
>> Here is a nice explanation of corrosion inhibitors
>>
>>
> http://www.lytron.com/Tools-and-Technical-Reference/Application-Notes/Preventing-Corrosion-in-Cooling-Systems
>>
>>
>> There are references to using muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid) to clean
> cooling system. I would NOT try this venue unless it is a "nothing left to
>> lose" and not under any circumstance with aluminum.
>> --
>> 1977 Eleganza II
>> Ogden NY
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: Cooling System Corrosion [message #327762 is a reply to message #327719] |
Thu, 04 January 2018 12:03 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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I'm with Emery on the 2 year plan with standard EG green coolants. I shy from any flush additves as chemical attack on the edges of gaskets is likely to continue after you "rinse" the flush away. If you have ever adjusted the pH in a swimming pool you will understand how relatively little powdered chemicals are needed to adjust (or screw up) the pH in say 20,000 gallons of water. We have much less liquid to dilute the imbalance
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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