Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Waterless Engine Coolant
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| Re: [GMCnet] Waterless Engine Coolant [message #327557 is a reply to message #327555] |
Fri, 29 December 2017 06:44   |
Ronald Pottol
Messages: 505
Registered: September 2012
Location: Redwood City, California
Karma: -2
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People have used it in the Volvo lists I've been on. It works, if you have
an overheat situation (but not lost of coolant), the usual reason the
engine stops is insulation melting off the wires, and the engine hasn't
been damaged.
In an overheating engine, the usual problem is that the coolant starts
boiling at a hot spot, and because that spot isn't being effectively cooled
any more, it can get very hot, leading to warping or detonation. This stuff
doesn't boil at any reasonable temp, so, say, having a thermostat fail
closed, or your fan stop working, isn't an immediate disaster.
Or so I hear, I've not used it.
On Dec 29, 2017 03:40, "Ken Henderson" wrote:
> New to me. What does anyone know about this? More snake oil?:
>
> http://rvtravel.com/high-performance-waterless-coolant-
> defends-boil-corrosion/
>
> Ken H.
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Waterless Engine Coolant [message #327563 is a reply to message #327555] |
Fri, 29 December 2017 11:51 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Pure glycol doesn't transfer heat as well as water - surely this stuff has something in it (snake oil maybe?) to improve on that. at something over a hundred a fill, I think I'll just make sure the cooling system is working properly and has 50 - 50 mix in it.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Waterless Engine Coolant [message #327564 is a reply to message #327555] |
Fri, 29 December 2017 11:53 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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And, Tom, where in Hill Country? I'll be in Karnes County down by Kenedy later on this year (2018). If you're close, let's do beer or BBQ or something.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Waterless Engine Coolant [message #327569 is a reply to message #327559] |
Fri, 29 December 2017 14:17 |
Kosier
Messages: 834
Registered: February 2008
Karma: 1
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Matt,
That stuff has been around for about 50 years. IIRC, it is mostly propylene
glycol.
I seem to remember the articles saying you ran no pressure in the system.
Gary Kosier
77PB w/500Cad
Newark, Ohio
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Matt Colie"
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2017 10:51 AM
To:
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Waterless Engine Coolant
> Ken Henderson wrote on Fri, 29 December 2017 06:38
>> New to me. What does anyone know about this? More snake oil?:
>>
>> http://rvtravel.com/high-performance-waterless-coolant-defends-boil-corrosion/
>>
>> Ken H.
>
> At 40+$/gal I am not sure that I care. I will try to get an MSDS from
> them. (Lord knows I have enough others, but my company @ddress has died.)
> The specs read a lot like straight Propylene Glycol, but to charge that
> much there better be more.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] Waterless Engine Coolant [message #327574 is a reply to message #327571] |
Fri, 29 December 2017 15:04 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Emery
> On Dec 29, 2017, at 1:31 PM, Dave Stragand wrote:
>
> Here's the sheet:
>
> http://www.hrpworld.com/store/media/media/manufacturer/evans/pdfs/EVANS-
> NPG+C%20-%20Evans%20High%20Performance%20Waterless%20Engine%20Coolant%20
> -%20SDS.pdf
>
> 3. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
> Chemical Name CAS No Weight-%
> Ethylene glycol 107-21-1 80-85
> 2-Ethylhexanoic acid 149-57-5 Sodium Nitrate 7631-99-4
> -Dave
> 1978 Transmode (403)
> Iceburgh, PA (Formerly Pittsburgh, but it's pretty cold)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Matt
> Colie
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2017 10:52 AM
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Waterless Engine Coolant
>
> At 40+$/gal I am not sure that I care. I will try to get an MSDS from
> them. (Lord knows I have enough others, but my company @ddress has
> died.) The specs read a lot like straight Propylene Glycol, but to
> charge that much there better be more.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie
Why anyone would even consider this is beyond my imagination. These products have been around since I had first joined Dow Chemical out of college in 1964. Dow has patents dating back to that era.
Back in those days they were used in ebullient cooled engines. Those engines were industrial engines that didn’t use a radiator, water pump or any components exterior to the engines. Dow had a series of coolants called Dowtherm. Some were propylene glycol based; some were ethylene glycol based and some were glycol ethers.
Boiling point is actually a protection in motors built for an automobile (or GMC).
Why would you want your engine to heat up 100 or 200 or more degrees than a water based coolant would? Think of the internal expansion of parts from the heat. And the potential wear or seizing up due to that expansion.
Engines that used “waterless” coolants (called ebullient cooled engines back then) were designed to use those coolants — our motorhome engines were not. If any of you are stupid enough (yes, i did use the politically incorrect word stupid)to put it into your GMC engines please let the rest of us know how long your engine lasts.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
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| Re: [GMCnet] Waterless Engine Coolant [message #327575 is a reply to message #327555] |
Fri, 29 December 2017 15:12 |
TR 1
Messages: 348
Registered: August 2015
Location: DFW
Karma: -7
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Have this in several of my cars. Including an RX7 I regularly take to the track. That car has had the same coolant in it since 2002. Car still does fine at track days in Texas summer heat. Looking inside the water pump housing, it still looks brand new in there. No corrosion whatsoever. This is not uncommon. You can do a search for engine tear down pics after running Non-aqueous coolant. No water equals no corrosion.
As mentioned earlier, it's pricey, so I only use it in vehicles I plan to have for some time... especially on vehicles that see high cooling loads. Turbo motors, rotaries... I also use it in my 05 ford excursion diesel, as that engine is known for having water jacket erosion issues due to coolant cavitation.
Plan to switch the GMC over when I switch to an aluminum radiator in the next year or so. Yes, u can run it at zero pressure, or with a low pressure cap if u desire. Yes, it does not absorb as much heat as water. However, in a properly sized cooling system, it should cool better than water in a lot of situations:
A non-overheating engine can still have pockets of boiling when under high load. This can cause hot spots, cavitation damage (water vapor bubbles form then collapse violently causing erosion of the water jacket) and water vapor acts as an insulator, preventing heat transfer. The high boiling point of non-aqueous coolant provides a higher margins against this than conventional coolant.
Corrosion acts as an insulator. No water means clean water jackets and radiators.
Running low or zero pressure means less stress on cooling system hoses, radiators, etc. Also, if a hose or whatever does fail, the leak is very small. Not catastrophic like a hose or radiator bursting.
Yes it's pricey. But if u change your coolant every 2 years, or even every 5, it will pay for itself if you keep the vehicle for some time.
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
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| Re: [GMCnet] Waterless Engine Coolant [message #327576 is a reply to message #327555] |
Fri, 29 December 2017 15:15 |
TR 1
Messages: 348
Registered: August 2015
Location: DFW
Karma: -7
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Senior Member |
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One other thing, since this coolant "heats up" faster, warmup times on the engine are decreased.
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
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| Re: [GMCnet] Waterless Engine Coolant [message #327577 is a reply to message #327574] |
Fri, 29 December 2017 15:18 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Emery,
Seems to me the big question, which I expected you to answer, is: "What is
the heat-carrying capacity of this stuff -- that is, will it cool as well
as water or will the internal surfaces of an engine be consistently hotter?"
Ken Knowing-the-Answer H.
On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 4:04 PM, Emery Stora wrote:
>
>
> Emery
>
>> On Dec 29, 2017, at 1:31 PM, Dave Stragand dave.stragand@forwardlook.net> wrote:
>>
>> Here's the sheet:
>>
>> http://www.hrpworld.com/store/media/media/manufacturer/evans/pdfs/EVANS-
>> NPG+C%20-%20Evans%20High%20Performance%20Waterless%20Engine%20Coolant%20
>> -%20SDS.pdf
>>
>> 3. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
>> Chemical Name CAS No Weight-%
>> Ethylene glycol 107-21-1 80-85
>> 2-Ethylhexanoic acid 149-57-5 > Sodium Nitrate 7631-99-4 >
>> -Dave
>> 1978 Transmode (403)
>> Iceburgh, PA (Formerly Pittsburgh, but it's pretty cold)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Matt
>> Colie
>> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2017 10:52 AM
>> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Waterless Engine Coolant
>>
>> At 40+$/gal I am not sure that I care. I will try to get an MSDS from
>> them. (Lord knows I have enough others, but my company @ddress has
>> died.) The specs read a lot like straight Propylene Glycol, but to
>> charge that much there better be more.
>>
>> Matt
>> --
>> Matt & Mary Colie
>
> Why anyone would even consider this is beyond my imagination. These
> products have been around since I had first joined Dow Chemical out of
> college in 1964. Dow has patents dating back to that era.
>
> Back in those days they were used in ebullient cooled engines. Those
> engines were industrial engines that didn’t use a radiator, water pump or
> any components exterior to the engines. Dow had a series of coolants called
> Dowtherm. Some were propylene glycol based; some were ethylene glycol based
> and some were glycol ethers.
>
> Boiling point is actually a protection in motors built for an automobile
> (or GMC).
> Why would you want your engine to heat up 100 or 200 or more degrees than
> a water based coolant would? Think of the internal expansion of parts from
> the heat. And the potential wear or seizing up due to that expansion.
>
> Engines that used “waterless” coolants (called ebullient cooled engines
> back then) were designed to use those coolants — our motorhome engines were
> not. If any of you are stupid enough (yes, i did use the politically
> incorrect word stupid)to put it into your GMC engines please let the rest
> of us know how long your engine lasts.
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Frederick, CO
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Waterless Engine Coolant [message #327593 is a reply to message #327555] |
Sat, 30 December 2017 08:13 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Actually, if you use hot water from your home system it will have substantially less oxygen dissolved in it that cold. Quick testb - fill an ice tray with water from each faucet and freeze. The dissolved oxygen will make the cold water cubes milky while the hot water ones will be clear.
Which isn't necessarily to paean tap water for coolant... but as long as it's 50-50 or so with antifreeze, corrosion should be controlled.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Waterless Engine Coolant [message #327594 is a reply to message #327555] |
Sat, 30 December 2017 08:17 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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From what I have "seen on TV" about Evans it's all in the prep. 40 years off whatever needs to be gone along will ALL water. This could he a challenge with 50' of heater hose and water heater loop. Not sure the MSDS on their colonic you have to use to prep but not sure that may be good for 50 year old head gaskets and what long term effects would be. I buy 50/50 EG premix on sale about $5 and my local Goodyear takes old to recycle for free. So about $20 every 2 years.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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