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Re: [GMCnet] Tankless hot water heater" [message #326512] Wed, 29 November 2017 21:50 Go to next message
Thomas Pryor is currently offline  Thomas Pryor   United States
Messages: 143
Registered: January 2011
Karma: 1
Senior Member
I watched this subject being discussed over the Past several years and
wondered why folks don't use the engine driven hot water feature in many of
our OEM style hot water tanks. in other words use 180-210 hot water from
engine coolant to heat water in the hot water tank fitted with a HEAT
EXCHANGER. My Wife and our family sailed on the Great Lakes for about 18
years and had no lack of Hot water. Sailors are conservative bunch so we
became accustomed to dealing with "dry camping" life style. Would always
run the Diesel engine for 30 minutes each day and always had hot water for
dishes and showers. (Navy Showers)

If your hot water tank is not fitted with the heat exchanger option you owe
it to your self to check it out!
See:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Kuuma-120V-Front-Mount-Water-
Heater-with-Heat-Exchange/33982683?wmlspartner=wlpa&
selectedSellerId=2132&adid=22222222227022531264&wl0=&wl1=
s&wl2=c&wl3=40970775992&wl4=pla-78913532192&wl5=9012200&
wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=113146354&wl11=online&wl12=
33982683&wl13=&veh=sem

FROM APPLIED GMC SEE: http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/518
--
Regards,

Tom Pryor
4188 Limerick Dr
Lake Wales, Fl 33859
Cell 248 470 9186

Living on a waterfront is not a matter of life or death. Its more
important than that.
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Re: [GMCnet] Tankless hot water heater" [message #326513 is a reply to message #326512] Wed, 29 November 2017 22:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Burt and Faye curtis is currently offline  Burt and Faye curtis   United States
Messages: 256
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 4
Senior Member
Tom,

To answer why not, sometimes I dry camp for several says without moving
coach, so engine heat is not good option. Same for electric only water
heater.
Also don't want to run engine or sometimes generator just to heat water,
especially when already have propane on board. Hence when came time to
replace water heater, seemed liked the best was to replace with tankless
heater.

Fay Curtis
Kneeland, .ca
76 Glenbrook

On Wednesday, November 29, 2017, Thomas Pryor wrote:

> I watched this subject being discussed over the Past several years and
> wondered why folks don't use the engine driven hot water feature in many of
> our OEM style hot water tanks. in other words use 180-210 hot water from
> engine coolant to heat water in the hot water tank fitted with a HEAT
> EXCHANGER. My Wife and our family sailed on the Great Lakes for about 18
> years and had no lack of Hot water. Sailors are conservative bunch so we
> became accustomed to dealing with "dry camping" life style. Would always
> run the Diesel engine for 30 minutes each day and always had hot water for
> dishes and showers. (Navy Showers)
>
> If your hot water tank is not fitted with the heat exchanger option you owe
> it to your self to check it out!
> See:
>
> https://www.walmart.com/ip/Kuuma-120V-Front-Mount-Water-
> Heater-with-Heat-Exchange/33982683?wmlspartner=wlpa&
> selectedSellerId=2132&adid=22222222227022531264&wl0=&wl1=
> s&wl2=c&wl3=40970775992&wl4=pla-78913532192&wl5=9012200&
> wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=113146354&wl11=online&wl12=
> 33982683&wl13=&veh=sem
>
> FROM APPLIED GMC SEE: http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/518
> --
> Regards,
>
> Tom Pryor
> 4188 Limerick Dr
> Lake Wales, Fl 33859
> Cell 248 470 9186
>
> Living on a waterfront is not a matter of life or death. Its more
> important than that.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Re: [GMCnet] Tankless hot water heater" [message #326515 is a reply to message #326513] Wed, 29 November 2017 22:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sammy Williams is currently offline  Sammy Williams   United States
Messages: 522
Registered: August 2010
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Senior Member
That is good information, however my usage of a GMC will be off the grid
and the unit still for up to a week or so. The hot water heater will have
the duty to run without engine assistance.

Sammy
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Re: [GMCnet] Tankless hot water heater" [message #326521 is a reply to message #326515] Thu, 30 November 2017 03:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Olly Schmidt is currently offline  Olly Schmidt   United States
Messages: 1265
Registered: February 2014
Location: Germany and Scottsville, ...
Karma: 8
Senior Member
Sammy Williams schrieb/wrote
> That is good information, however my usage of a GMC will be off the grid
> and the unit still for up to a week or so. The hot water heater will have
> the duty to run without engine assistance.b

Instead of LPG, I'll be using gasoline utilizing Eberspächer Hydronic
B5WS connected to the coolant circuitry in my 23' - heats the engine
with a coolant to air heat exchanger, and the water with the original
coolant to water exchanger.

--
Best regards

Peer Oliver Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA

'76a Eleganza II 26', VA
'73 Sequoia 23', Germany, SH


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Best regards

Olly Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x18a9 3a1f 4196 bf22
'76a Eleganza II, VA
'73 Sequoia, SH, Germany
Re: [GMCnet] Tankless hot water heater" [message #326525 is a reply to message #326521] Thu, 30 November 2017 07:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tphipps is currently offline  tphipps   United States
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
Senior Member
While the engine coolant heated hot water is nice, remember that it is much hotter than typical house hot water. Also, if you have one, pay attention to those long hoses. A break will cost you an engine. Don't learn the hard way like I did. If you are not using this function, install cut-off valves in both lines and turn them off. Better yet, replace those 40 year old hoses.
Tom


2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552 KA4CSG
Re: [GMCnet] Tankless hot water heater" [message #326531 is a reply to message #326525] Thu, 30 November 2017 09:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ray Erspamer is currently offline  Ray Erspamer   United States
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Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
Senior Member
One way to think about this is that the tankless water heater is only using propane when the water is running.....and really, how often is that?? Not very much.

Just another thing I've done, we do mostly boon-docking. So I built what I call a "water wagon". We go and fill it at the pump or water station, wheel it back and connect it to the city water connection and I have a plug on the side of the coach for the 12vdc power for the pump. I host a primitive campground every summer for 5 weeks and this makes my resupplying of water a piece of cake.

Water Wagon.....
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6747-water-wagon.html


Ray Erspamer 78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen 403, 3.70 Final Drive Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System, Holley Hyperspark Ignition System 414-484-9431
Re: [GMCnet] Tankless hot water heater" [message #326534 is a reply to message #326531] Thu, 30 November 2017 09:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
Senior Member
Ray,

You are one CLEVER BUGGER as we say Downunder!

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ray Erspamer
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2017 9:16 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Tankless hot water heater"

One way to think about this is that the tankless water heater is only using propane when the water is running.....and really, how
often is that?? Not
very much.

Just another thing I've done, we do mostly boon-docking. So I built what I call a "water wagon". We go and fill it at the pump or
water station, wheel it back and connect it to the city water connection and I have a plug on the side of the coach for the 12vdc
power for the pump. I host a primitive campground every summer for 5 weeks and this makes my resupplying of water a piece of cake.

Water Wagon.....
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6747-water-wagon.html

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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: [GMCnet] Tankless hot water heater" [message #326537 is a reply to message #326525] Thu, 30 November 2017 09:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Olly Schmidt is currently offline  Olly Schmidt   United States
Messages: 1265
Registered: February 2014
Location: Germany and Scottsville, ...
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Senior Member
Thanks for the cautious words. The coolant hoses are all new, and all I add to the original install is the gas powered heater up front and the water to air on the coolants way back to coolant to water heater near the bath.
--
Best regards

Peer Oliver Schmidt
'76a Eleganza II, VA
'73 Sequoia, Germany
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Best regards

Olly Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x18a9 3a1f 4196 bf22
'76a Eleganza II, VA
'73 Sequoia, SH, Germany
Re: [GMCnet] Tankless hot water heater" [message #326608 is a reply to message #326537] Fri, 01 December 2017 17:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
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Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
Senior Member
But, there is another problem that was demonstrated catastrophically by a friend with an hunting cabin, it could easily happen in a coach installation as well.

Any on-demand single pass direct fired heater has to have good outside access to vent combustion by-products (exhaust). If you have a simple system that heats for water demand only and the outside temperature falls below freezing. The water heater can be frozen a damaged. (Well, in this case destroyed. His cabin now has an automatic dump that opens when the system is idle in cold weather.

The plan is good, but not all situations can manage a good installation.
Dan Greg's idea was a good one except for the freezing part.

Matt


Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: [GMCnet] Tankless hot water heater" [message #326665 is a reply to message #326608] Sun, 03 December 2017 00:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hal StClair   United States
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
Senior Member
Oliver, how many BTU's is that unit? You have room for it up front under the hatch? Shift the batteries to the drivers side I'd guess?
Hal


"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane." 1977 Royale 101348, 1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered, 1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout, Rio Rancho, NM
Re: [GMCnet] Tankless hot water heater" [message #326680 is a reply to message #326665] Sun, 03 December 2017 11:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ray Erspamer is currently offline  Ray Erspamer   United States
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Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
Senior Member
On the standard GMC layouts, there's plenty of room behind the refrigerator for it and then there is the roof vent for the water heater venting.

Our model 6L is approx. 40,000 btu.


Ray Erspamer 78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen 403, 3.70 Final Drive Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System, Holley Hyperspark Ignition System 414-484-9431

[Updated on: Sun, 03 December 2017 11:05]

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Re: [GMCnet] Tankless hot water heater" [message #326692 is a reply to message #326665] Sun, 03 December 2017 15:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Olly Schmidt is currently offline  Olly Schmidt   United States
Messages: 1265
Registered: February 2014
Location: Germany and Scottsville, ...
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Senior Member
Hal StClair schrieb/wrote
> Oliver, how many BTU's is that unit? You have room for it up front under the hatch? Shift the batteries to the drivers side I'd guess?

It is a 5kW unit, whatever that is in BTU.

I just looked at the heater. It is soo small, that it will be mounted at
the back of the step to the cockpit.

--
Best regards

Peer Oliver Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA

'76a Eleganza II 26', VA
'73 Sequoia 23', Germany, SH


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Best regards

Olly Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x18a9 3a1f 4196 bf22
'76a Eleganza II, VA
'73 Sequoia, SH, Germany
Re: [GMCnet] Tankless hot water heater" [message #326702 is a reply to message #326692] Sun, 03 December 2017 17:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Emery Stora is currently offline  Emery Stora   United States
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Registered: January 2011
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That is about 17000 btu.

Emery Stora

> On Dec 3, 2017, at 2:55 PM, Peer Oliver Schmidt GMC wrote:
>
> Hal StClair schrieb/wrote
>> Oliver, how many BTU's is that unit? You have room for it up front under the hatch? Shift the batteries to the drivers side I'd guess?
>
> It is a 5kW unit, whatever that is in BTU.
>
> I just looked at the heater. It is soo small, that it will be mounted at
> the back of the step to the cockpit.
>
> --
> Best regards
>
> Peer Oliver Schmidt
> PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA
>
> '76a Eleganza II 26', VA
> '73 Sequoia 23', Germany, SH
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Re: [GMCnet] Tankless hot water heater" [message #326713 is a reply to message #326702] Sun, 03 December 2017 23:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Olly Schmidt is currently offline  Olly Schmidt   United States
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Emery Stora schrieb/wrote
> That is about 17000 btu.

Is that considered good enough for a 23' in an area that is temperature
wise comparable to say Seattle?

--
Best regards

Peer Oliver Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA

'76a Eleganza II 26', VA
'73 Sequoia 23', Germany, SH


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Best regards

Olly Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x18a9 3a1f 4196 bf22
'76a Eleganza II, VA
'73 Sequoia, SH, Germany
Re: [GMCnet] Tankless hot water heater" [message #326719 is a reply to message #326713] Mon, 04 December 2017 08:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ray Erspamer is currently offline  Ray Erspamer   United States
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We live in Wisconsin and have camped in Northern Wisconsin when there's been snow on the ground and outside temps of 25. Our Aqua 6L worked fine.

And although it's right next to the refrigerator side wall exterior vent, there's enough interior coach heat in that area to prevent any chance of freezing.

https://aquahstore.com/catalog/


Ray Erspamer 78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen 403, 3.70 Final Drive Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System, Holley Hyperspark Ignition System 414-484-9431

[Updated on: Mon, 04 December 2017 08:35]

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Re: [GMCnet] Tankless hot water heater" [message #326726 is a reply to message #326719] Mon, 04 December 2017 11:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hal StClair   United States
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
Senior Member
Ray Erspamer wrote on Mon, 04 December 2017 07:34
We live in Wisconsin and have camped in Northern Wisconsin when there's been snow on the ground and outside temps of 25. Our Aqua 6L worked fine.

And although it's right next to the refrigerator side wall exterior vent, there's enough interior coach heat in that area to prevent any chance of freezing.

https://aquahstore.com/catalog/


There seems to be a misunderstanding here on the heaters.
Oliver is discussing a gas fired boiler to heat water with a hydronic system to heat the coach. The tank less heaters being discussed pertain to domestic water heating.
Oliver, the 17,000 BTU will 'probably' work but it will be marginal with the original insulation I'd guess. Didn't the coach come with a 24 or 30,000 BTU heater from the factory?
Hal


"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane." 1977 Royale 101348, 1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered, 1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout, Rio Rancho, NM

[Updated on: Mon, 04 December 2017 11:06]

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Re: [GMCnet] Tankless hot water heater" [message #326733 is a reply to message #326680] Mon, 04 December 2017 13:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rjw   United States
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Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member
Ray Erspamer wrote on Sun, 03 December 2017 12:04
On the standard GMC layouts, there's plenty of room behind the refrigerator for it and then there is the roof vent for the water heater venting.
Our model 6L is approx. 40,000 btu.

Ray,

I used your setup as a guide when I decided to install a tankless water heater about 7 years ago. I had to modify your approach since you, as I recall, don't have a standard GMC layout.

I wanted to keep the original (actually had upgraded it to stainless steel a few years earlier) water heater with electric and the engine coolant loop. I wanted to be able to use the OEM when plugged in and the tankless when dry camping.

I plumbed it so that I could isolate the tankless heater from the plumbing when in potentially freezing weather (i.e. winterize it separate) on the way to or on the way back from warmer weather. We seldom dry camp in freezing weather.

The tankless water heater is installed behind my 3-way gas reefer.

I am very happy with having a tankless water heater.

I did a presentation at the Goshen 2011 GMCMI rally about my install and have included a link here to that presentation. It is a long presentation (70 slides) and I go into detail about what I did.

http://www.palmbeachgmc.com/PDF/tankless-heater.pdf

The only downside to my current setup is that the water temperature can fluctuate during "navy showers". Happens when the water is shut off to soap up, and then turned back on to rinse. At that time you can get hit with a shot of cold water which is annoying if you don't know its coming. I plan on adding a mixing valve to modulate the temperature if I ever get around to it.








Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com

Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
Re: [GMCnet] Tankless hot water heater" [message #327013 is a reply to message #326525] Mon, 11 December 2017 12:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dutch Marc is currently offline  Dutch Marc   United States
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Senior Member
tphipps wrote on Thu, 30 November 2017 05:12
install cut-off valves in both lines and turn them off.


HI Tom, as a newbee my Coach has 1 cut off value under the hood. Where would the 2nd cut off valve be installed and why?


1973 26' Canyon Land (Mello Yello) (TZE063v101302) Full Time GMC Nomad ('98 NL 2 USA)
Re: [GMCnet] Tankless hot water heater" [message #328272 is a reply to message #326713] Mon, 15 January 2018 22:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
emerystora is currently offline  emerystora   United States
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Senior Member
I would think so. 17,000 BTU
is equivalent to 5000 watts.
The little electric heaters some use in their motor homes are usually 1500 watts and draw about 12 to 13 amp at 120 volts.

I use a 5000 watt electric heater in my workshop in the winter here in Colorado and I have to keep shutting it off because it gets too hot in the 20ft x 30ft shop.

Emery Stora

> On Dec 3, 2017, at 10:50 PM, Peer Oliver Schmidt GMC wrote:
>
> Emery Stora schrieb/wrote
>> That is about 17000 btu.
>
> Is that considered good enough for a 23' in an area that is temperature
> wise comparable to say Seattle?
>
> --
> Best regards
>
> Peer Oliver Schmidt
> PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA
>
> '76a Eleganza II 26', VA
> '73 Sequoia 23', Germany, SH
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

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Re: [GMCnet] Tankless hot water heater" [message #328274 is a reply to message #328272] Tue, 16 January 2018 05:21 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
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Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
Senior Member
Emery,

The storage unit for the Kingsley in Houston has a 120 VAC / 50 amp service included in the monthly cost, I would like to have one
of the heaters you have for when I work on it when it's cold.

Where did you get the 5000 watt heater?

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Emery Stora
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 3:22 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Tankless hot water heater"

I would think so. 17,000 BTU is equivalent to 5000 watts.

The little electric heaters some use in their motor homes are usually 1500 watts and draw about 12 to 13 amp at 120 volts.

I use a 5000 watt electric heater in my workshop in the winter here in Colorado and I have to keep shutting it off because it gets
too hot in the 20ft x 30ft shop.

Emery Stora



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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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