Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't.
| [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't. [message #326271] |
Wed, 22 November 2017 18:01  |
BobDunahugh
Messages: 2465
Registered: October 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Karma: 11
|
Senior Member |
|
|
When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer part of my harmonic dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds unit could do that. I was aware of other engine. So if at some time your timing was set to a moved mark. It could be affecting the timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm thinking that I may have set my timing retarded the last time due to this. There are indexing marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't. [message #326273 is a reply to message #326271] |
Wed, 22 November 2017 18:15  |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
|
Senior Member |
|
|
If you have the compensating dampener very clean, you should be able to
locate "witness marks" placed there by the factory. They appear as a single
chisel mark that bridges the hub, the rubber dampener, and the outer rim.
All in a line. If it slips, the line no longer appears straight, and timing
by the mark on the rim will no longer be accurate. I have seen several
dampeners misaligned like this, most had been cleaned in a hot tank.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Nov 22, 2017 4:02 PM, "Bob Dunahugh" wrote:
> When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran
> terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer part of my harmonic
> dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds unit could do that. I
> was aware of other engine. So if at some time your timing was set to a
> moved mark. It could be affecting the timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm
> thinking that I may have set my timing retarded the last time due to this.
> There are indexing marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob
> Dunahugh 78 Royale
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't. [message #326287 is a reply to message #326280] |
Thu, 23 November 2017 12:10 |
Kosier
Messages: 834
Registered: February 2008
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Matt,
The '68 and later iron block Cadillac's had their timing marks on the back
pulley. Oddly, they used a balancer with sheet metal pulleys
from '68 to '73. Then '74 to '76 used cast iron pulleys with no balancer.
'77 and later used sheet metal pulleys with no balancer.
I've always wondered what their reasoning was. When I built my serpentine
belt setup, I started with no balancer and later added one.
Never could see or feel any difference. I always wonder WHY?
Gary Kosier
77PB w/500Cad
Newark, Ohio
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Matt Colie"
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 9:16 AM
To:
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds
engines? I didn't.
> BobDunahugh wrote on Wed, 22 November 2017 19:01
>> When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran
>> terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer part of my
>> harmonic dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds unit could do
>> that. I was aware of other engine. So if at some time your timing was set
>> to a moved mark. It could be affecting the timing. Thus reducing
>> mileage. I'm thinking that I may have set my timing retarded the last
>> time due to
>> this. There are indexing marks that GM did when new. New one is $42.
>> Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale
>
> I will take the moment to both warn you all that this can happen to any
> engine that has rubber damper installed. That means just about every
> passcar
> engine produced since WWII. I have had it happen to new parts on
> durability engines. If you have a chance check for witness marks. If you
> don't see
> them, make some.
>
> And I will take a little more of your time to wish everyone in the great
> family a Happy Thanksgiving. We are getting ready here and will have the
> daughter and her family here and have number of four grandsons from our
> son's side here for the weekend.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't. [message #326288 is a reply to message #326280] |
Thu, 23 November 2017 12:21 |
Larry
Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Matt Colie wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 08:16BobDunahugh wrote on Wed, 22 November 2017 19:01When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer part of my harmonic dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds unit could do that. I was aware of other engine. So if at some time your timing was set to a moved mark. It could be affecting the timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm thinking that I may have set my timing retarded the last time due to this. There are indexing marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale
I will take the moment to both warn you all that this can happen to any engine that has rubber damper installed. That means just about every passcar engine produced since WWII. I have had it happen to new parts on durability engines. If you have a chance check for witness marks. If you don't see them, make some.
And I will take a little more of your time to wish everyone in the great family a Happy Thanksgiving. We are getting ready here and will have the daughter and her family here and have number of four grandsons from our son's side here for the weekend.
Matt
Won't happen to the Cadillac engine. The damper is a separate piece that bolts to the pulley housing and does not have timing marks on it. Just FYI.
Larry 
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
[Updated on: Thu, 23 November 2017 12:22] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't. [message #326298 is a reply to message #326297] |
Thu, 23 November 2017 21:16 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Bob,
Looks like Olds parts guys didn't agree with you.
:-)
Parts Book 78Z Page 8-4
ENGINE
8.005 CYLINDER BLOCK, CRANKSHAFT AND OIL PAN (Cont.)
Key 230 260 Part Number
22 1 1 400133 BALANCER ASSY.-crankshaft (1973)
22 1 1 417142 BALANCER ASSY.-crankshaft (eff. w/1974)
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 7:40 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't.
It's not a balancer as commonly referred to. But a harmonic dampener. It's used to reduce the harmonic that occur at certain RPM
ranges in the crankshaft of internal combustion engines. That's why the outer steel mas is mounted on rubber. Run without one. The
crank will break. ( GENERALLY ) The heavier the crank. The larger the damping mas. Bob Dunahugh
________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 6:01 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't.
When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer
part of my harmonic dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds unit could do that. I was aware of other engine. So if at
some time your timing was set to a moved mark. It could be affecting the timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm thinking that I may
have set my timing retarded the last time due to this. There are indexing marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob Dunahugh
78 Royale
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't. [message #326299 is a reply to message #326298] |
Thu, 23 November 2017 22:38 |
Richard Denney
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
They couldn't agree whether it to call it a "dampener" or "damper", so they
compromised on a word they could all agree was wrong, "balancer".
Rick "it's 'damper'" Denney
On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 10:18 PM Rob Mueller
wrote:
> Bob,
>
> Looks like Olds parts guys didn't agree with you.
>
> :-)
>
> Parts Book 78Z Page 8-4
>
> ENGINE
>
> 8.005 CYLINDER BLOCK, CRANKSHAFT AND OIL PAN (Cont.)
>
> Key 230 260 Part Number
> 22 1 1 400133 BALANCER ASSY.-crankshaft (1973)
> 22 1 1 417142 BALANCER ASSY.-crankshaft (eff. w/1974)
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Bob
> Dunahugh
> Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 7:40 PM
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds
> engines? I didn't.
>
> It's not a balancer as commonly referred to. But a harmonic dampener. It's
> used to reduce the harmonic that occur at certain RPM
> ranges in the crankshaft of internal combustion engines. That's why the
> outer steel mas is mounted on rubber. Run without one. The
> crank will break. ( GENERALLY ) The heavier the crank. The larger the
> damping mas. Bob Dunahugh
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bob Dunahugh
> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 6:01 PM
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't.
>
>
> When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran
> terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer
> part of my harmonic dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds
> unit could do that. I was aware of other engine. So if at
> some time your timing was set to a moved mark. It could be affecting the
> timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm thinking that I may
> have set my timing retarded the last time due to this. There are indexing
> marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob Dunahugh
> 78 Royale
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Rick Denney
73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't. [message #326300 is a reply to message #326299] |
Thu, 23 November 2017 22:49 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
|
Senior Member |
|
|
That’s all right. GMC also calls an alternator a generator or motor generator. Just look it up on out parts book or maintenance manual.
Emery Stora
> On Nov 23, 2017, at 9:38 PM, Richard Denney wrote:
>
> They couldn't agree whether it to call it a "dampener" or "damper", so they
> compromised on a word they could all agree was wrong, "balancer".
>
> Rick "it's 'damper'" Denney
>
> On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 10:18 PM Rob Mueller
> wrote:
>
>> Bob,
>>
>> Looks like Olds parts guys didn't agree with you.
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> Parts Book 78Z Page 8-4
>>
>> ENGINE
>>
>> 8.005 CYLINDER BLOCK, CRANKSHAFT AND OIL PAN (Cont.)
>>
>> Key 230 260 Part Number
>> 22 1 1 400133 BALANCER ASSY.-crankshaft (1973)
>> 22 1 1 417142 BALANCER ASSY.-crankshaft (eff. w/1974)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rob M.
>> The Pedantic Mechanic
>> Sydney, Australia
>> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
>> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Bob
>> Dunahugh
>> Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 7:40 PM
>> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds
>> engines? I didn't.
>>
>> It's not a balancer as commonly referred to. But a harmonic dampener. It's
>> used to reduce the harmonic that occur at certain RPM
>> ranges in the crankshaft of internal combustion engines. That's why the
>> outer steel mas is mounted on rubber. Run without one. The
>> crank will break. ( GENERALLY ) The heavier the crank. The larger the
>> damping mas. Bob Dunahugh
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Bob Dunahugh
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 6:01 PM
>> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
>> Subject: Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't.
>>
>>
>> When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran
>> terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer
>> part of my harmonic dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds
>> unit could do that. I was aware of other engine. So if at
>> some time your timing was set to a moved mark. It could be affecting the
>> timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm thinking that I may
>> have set my timing retarded the last time due to this. There are indexing
>> marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob Dunahugh
>> 78 Royale
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> --
> Rick Denney
> 73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
> Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't. [message #326301 is a reply to message #326271] |
Fri, 24 November 2017 02:47 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Had one that slipped years ago on an Olds Delta 88 with over 100 K miles. I believe it was a 350 engine. I did not want to go through all of the work to order and replace it just to set the timing, so I just put a new mark on it with white out and timed it. It had a Delta CD ignition on it so the points never wore other than the block wearing on the cam. So I figured it would be another 100K before anyone ever looked at it again. I do not remember what happened to that car in the years after that.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't. [message #326304 is a reply to message #326303] |
Fri, 24 November 2017 11:11 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
|
Senior Member |
|
|
MOST OF the harmonic balancers that I have encountered on Olds engines that
have not been tampered with, do not exist any evidence of lightening drill
holes on the outer ring. That tells me that the purpose is to cancel
harmonics, not engine balance. The engines that have been overhauled and
rebalanced frequently DO HAVE drill spots on the balancers as well as the
flex plates, as is common in good overhaul shops.
Don't know all the specifics of engine harmonics on multi-cylinder
engines, but it is a complex mix of crank pin location, firing order,
stroke length, rpm range, etc, etc. But I do know this much. If a
compensating balancer is separated and no longer aligned like the factory
did it, it possibly is not a good thing for engine longevity.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
On Nov 24, 2017 8:54 AM, "John R. Lebetski" wrote:
> Emery --GM called it a Delcotron.
> I did know the rubber can shift and give erroneous timming readings Does
> that also change the balance and increase the crank stresses at certain RPM
> ranges?
> --
> John Lebetski
> Woodstock, IL
> 77 Eleganza II
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't. [message #326310 is a reply to message #326300] |
Fri, 24 November 2017 14:15 |
Kosier
Messages: 834
Registered: February 2008
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Emery,
They called it a generator because that's what it does. AND also because
Chrysler made the first AC generator and patented the word
alternator. The General didn't like to pay royalties to anyone in those
days. Times have changed their attitude.
Gary Kosier
77PB w/500Cad
Newark, Ohio
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Emery Stora"
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 11:49 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds
engines? I didn't.
> That’s all right. GMC also calls an alternator a generator or motor
> generator. Just look it up on out parts book or maintenance manual.
>
> Emery Stora
>
>> On Nov 23, 2017, at 9:38 PM, Richard Denney wrote:
>>
>> They couldn't agree whether it to call it a "dampener" or "damper", so
>> they
>> compromised on a word they could all agree was wrong, "balancer".
>>
>> Rick "it's 'damper'" Denney
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 10:18 PM Rob Mueller
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Bob,
>>>
>>> Looks like Olds parts guys didn't agree with you.
>>>
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> Parts Book 78Z Page 8-4
>>>
>>> ENGINE
>>>
>>> 8.005 CYLINDER BLOCK, CRANKSHAFT AND OIL PAN (Cont.)
>>>
>>> Key 230 260 Part Number
>>> 22 1 1 400133 BALANCER ASSY.-crankshaft (1973)
>>> 22 1 1 417142 BALANCER ASSY.-crankshaft (eff. w/1974)
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Rob M.
>>> The Pedantic Mechanic
>>> Sydney, Australia
>>> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
>>> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>>> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Bob
>>> Dunahugh
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 7:40 PM
>>> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds
>>> engines? I didn't.
>>>
>>> It's not a balancer as commonly referred to. But a harmonic dampener.
>>> It's
>>> used to reduce the harmonic that occur at certain RPM
>>> ranges in the crankshaft of internal combustion engines. That's why the
>>> outer steel mas is mounted on rubber. Run without one. The
>>> crank will break. ( GENERALLY ) The heavier the crank. The larger the
>>> damping mas. Bob Dunahugh
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Bob Dunahugh
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 6:01 PM
>>> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
>>> Subject: Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I
>>> didn't.
>>>
>>>
>>> When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It
>>> ran
>>> terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer
>>> part of my harmonic dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds
>>> unit could do that. I was aware of other engine. So if at
>>> some time your timing was set to a moved mark. It could be affecting the
>>> timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm thinking that I may
>>> have set my timing retarded the last time due to this. There are
>>> indexing
>>> marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob Dunahugh
>>> 78 Royale
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> --
>> Rick Denney
>> 73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
>> Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't. [message #326313 is a reply to message #326310] |
Fri, 24 November 2017 15:39 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Yes, I am aware of that. A generator puts out DC while an alternator puts out AC.
Our alternators make ac but it is internally voltage regulated and inverted to output DC.
Emery Stora
> On Nov 24, 2017, at 1:15 PM, Gary Kosier wrote:
>
> Emery,
>
> They called it a generator because that's what it does. AND also because Chrysler made the first AC generator and patented the word
> alternator. The General didn't like to pay royalties to anyone in those days. Times have changed their attitude.
>
> Gary Kosier
> 77PB w/500Cad
> Newark, Ohio
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Emery Stora"
> Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 11:49 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't.
>
>> That’s all right. GMC also calls an alternator a generator or motor generator. Just look it up on out parts book or maintenance manual.
>>
>> Emery Stora
>>
>>> On Nov 23, 2017, at 9:38 PM, Richard Denney wrote:
>>>
>>> They couldn't agree whether it to call it a "dampener" or "damper", so they
>>> compromised on a word they could all agree was wrong, "balancer".
>>>
>>> Rick "it's 'damper'" Denney
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 10:18 PM Rob Mueller
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bob,
>>>>
>>>> Looks like Olds parts guys didn't agree with you.
>>>>
>>>> :-)
>>>>
>>>> Parts Book 78Z Page 8-4
>>>>
>>>> ENGINE
>>>>
>>>> 8.005 CYLINDER BLOCK, CRANKSHAFT AND OIL PAN (Cont.)
>>>>
>>>> Key 230 260 Part Number
>>>> 22 1 1 400133 BALANCER ASSY.-crankshaft (1973)
>>>> 22 1 1 417142 BALANCER ASSY.-crankshaft (eff. w/1974)
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Rob M.
>>>> The Pedantic Mechanic
>>>> Sydney, Australia
>>>> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
>>>> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>>>> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Bob
>>>> Dunahugh
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 7:40 PM
>>>> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds
>>>> engines? I didn't.
>>>>
>>>> It's not a balancer as commonly referred to. But a harmonic dampener. It's
>>>> used to reduce the harmonic that occur at certain RPM
>>>> ranges in the crankshaft of internal combustion engines. That's why the
>>>> outer steel mas is mounted on rubber. Run without one. The
>>>> crank will break. ( GENERALLY ) The heavier the crank. The larger the
>>>> damping mas. Bob Dunahugh
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Bob Dunahugh
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 6:01 PM
>>>> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
>>>> Subject: Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran
>>>> terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer
>>>> part of my harmonic dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds
>>>> unit could do that. I was aware of other engine. So if at
>>>> some time your timing was set to a moved mark. It could be affecting the
>>>> timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm thinking that I may
>>>> have set my timing retarded the last time due to this. There are indexing
>>>> marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob Dunahugh
>>>> 78 Royale
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Rick Denney
>>> 73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
>>> Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't. [message #326314 is a reply to message #326304] |
Fri, 24 November 2017 19:05 |
|
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Jim,
My experience with "good overhaul shops" is that they balance the crank by drilling holes in the counterweights to lighten them or
filling the holes with lead to increase the weight.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of James Hupy
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2017 11:11 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't.
MOST OF the harmonic balancers that I have encountered on Olds engines that
have not been tampered with, do not exist any evidence of lightening drill
holes on the outer ring. That tells me that the purpose is to cancel
harmonics, not engine balance. The engines that have been overhauled and
rebalanced frequently DO HAVE drill spots on the balancers as well as the
flex plates, as is common in good overhaul shops.
Don't know all the specifics of engine harmonics on multi-cylinder
engines, but it is a complex mix of crank pin location, firing order,
stroke length, rpm range, etc, etc. But I do know this much. If a
compensating balancer is separated and no longer aligned like the factory
did it, it possibly is not a good thing for engine longevity.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't. [message #326315 is a reply to message #326271] |
Fri, 24 November 2017 19:11 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
|
Senior Member |
|
|
That is correct, Rob. But the "fussy duck" engine balancers do the steps I
mentioned, in addition to the crank, rod, and piston work. Nothing is left
unbalanced except the owners checkbook. (Grin)
Jim Hupy
On Nov 24, 2017 5:07 PM, "Rob Mueller" wrote:
Jim,
My experience with "good overhaul shops" is that they balance the crank by
drilling holes in the counterweights to lighten them or
filling the holes with lead to increase the weight.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of James
Hupy
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2017 11:11 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds
engines? I didn't.
MOST OF the harmonic balancers that I have encountered on Olds engines that
have not been tampered with, do not exist any evidence of lightening drill
holes on the outer ring. That tells me that the purpose is to cancel
harmonics, not engine balance. The engines that have been overhauled and
rebalanced frequently DO HAVE drill spots on the balancers as well as the
flex plates, as is common in good overhaul shops.
Don't know all the specifics of engine harmonics on multi-cylinder
engines, but it is a complex mix of crank pin location, firing order,
stroke length, rpm range, etc, etc. But I do know this much. If a
compensating balancer is separated and no longer aligned like the factory
did it, it possibly is not a good thing for engine longevity.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Tue Apr 23 19:46:29 CDT 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.01162 seconds
|
GMCforum
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
