Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » 2017 Breakdown & Engine Replacement
| 2017 Breakdown & Engine Replacement [message #326209] |
Tue, 21 November 2017 11:29  |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Back in September I posted I had engine woes. I just wanted to update everyone on what had happened. It turned out my severe knocking was #2 piston had broke apart. We ended up pulling the engine, having it rebuilt and reinstalling it. My thanks to my awesome friend Steve Southworth who let me tie up his building for 7 weeks. Engine was rebuilt by D&R Engine & Machine in Marion, Iowa. They contacted Dick Paterson for the spec's on the cam and other parts and they were awesome to work with. Pictures can be seen via the attached link. Thanks everyone for your input and support along the way. I am hoping that this is something I never have to do again.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g7117-2017-engine-woes.html
Ray
Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: 2017 Breakdown & Engine Replacement [message #326218 is a reply to message #326209] |
Tue, 21 November 2017 15:31  |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Two days to reinstall. Nope. One day to reinstall the engine. One day to get the P/S pump installed. Ray was not a happy camper. I told him if he wanted to burn his coach he had to drag it out of the barn first.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: 2017 Breakdown & Engine Replacement [message #326219 is a reply to message #326218] |
Tue, 21 November 2017 15:38 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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20-20 Hind sight. I should have installed the power steering pump when the engine was out. What a buzzard that was!
Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] 2017 Breakdown & Engine Replacement [message #326223 is a reply to message #326209] |
Tue, 21 November 2017 17:33 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Ray,
How much did they have to bore that #2 cylinder? I'm trying to imagine
some way the piston could fail like that -- baffles me!
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, Troy-Bilt APU, etc., etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 12:29 PM, Ray Erspamer
wrote:
> ...
>
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g7117-2017-engine-woes.html
>
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] 2017 Breakdown & Engine Replacement [message #326225 is a reply to message #326220] |
Tue, 21 November 2017 17:38 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Back in the '50s, Olds and Cad v8 engines were notorious for breaking
pistons. They were just learning about "slipper skirt" vs full circle
designs. Once they quit casting them and started forging them, "impact
extrusion" was the term the factory used to describe the process, the
pistons quit failing like that. Been a long time since I have seen that
failure. Sometimes it is caused by someone dropping the rod and piston
assembly, picking it up, and putting it in the bore before anyone notices
what they did. "Stuff happens".
Any marks on the top of the piston like needle bearings were bouncing
around in there when it was running? Classic evidence of detonation if you
see that. It darn sure will break the sides off pistons like that.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Nov 21, 2017 3:21 PM, "Larry" wrote:
Ray Erspamer wrote on Tue, 21 November 2017 11:29
> Back in September I posted I had engine woes. I just wanted to update
everyone on what had happened. It turned out my severe knocking was #2
> piston had broke apart. We ended up pulling the engine, having it
rebuilt and reinstalling it. My thanks to my awesome friend Steve
Southworth who
> let me tie up his building for 7 weeks. Engine was rebuilt by D&R
Engine & Machine in Marion, Iowa. They contacted Dick Paterson for the
spec's
> on the cam and other parts and they were awesome to work with. Pictures
can be seen via the attached link. Thanks everyone for your input and
> support along the way. I am hoping that this is something I never have
to do again.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g7117-2017-engine-woes.html
>
> Ray
Ray,
I looked at the pics, particularly the images of the piston. Never seen
something like that. Post mortem give you any idea why that happened?
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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| Re: 2017 Breakdown & Engine Replacement [message #326233 is a reply to message #326228] |
Tue, 21 November 2017 19:45 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Matt Colie wrote on Tue, 21 November 2017 18:28I want to thank all involved for these discussions.
While visiting the most honorable wizard himself (Dave Lenzi) in his abode, we looked at and talked about an 8.1 he has in a front frame and about ready to put in a coach. He has decided that this is the only way to do an engine. (That is fine for him, he is a grand wizard.)
So, I am going to investigate this at great length as my coaches engine needs attention. (Like a dead hole and oil in the air filter, it's telling me it needs some love.) After 70K of wonderful problem free miles, I can't refuse.
I will try to take enough pictures to let the community know how it goes. (Please remember that if I am working alone, it is not easy to stop and take pictures.)
Matt
Been there done that.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5924-front-clip-pull.html
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5925-front-clip-dolly.html
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] 2017 Breakdown & Engine Replacement [message #326234 is a reply to message #326228] |
Tue, 21 November 2017 20:24 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Can you just imagine Matt's light weight coach with an 8.1 going to Jim Bound's drag race session in Florida?
D C "Mac" Macdonald
Amateur Radio - K2GKK
k2gkk @ hotmail dot com
USAF and FAA, Retired
Oklahoma City, OK
"The Money Pit"
1976 ex-Palm Beach
k2gkk + hotmail dot com
www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb
________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Matt Colie
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 18:28
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] 2017 Breakdown & Engine Replacement
I want to thank all involved for these discussions.
While visiting the most honorable wizard himself (Dave Lenzi) in his abode, we looked at and talked about an 8.1 he has in a front frame and about
ready to put in a coach. He has decided that this is the only way to do an engine. (That is fine for him, he is a grand wizard.)
So, I am going to investigate this at great length as my coaches engine needs attention. (Like a dead hole and oil in the air filter, it's telling me
it needs some love.) After 70K of wonderful problem free miles, I can't refuse.
I will try to take enough pictures to let the community know how it goes. (Please remember that if I am working alone, it is not easy to stop and
take pictures.)
Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] 2017 Breakdown & Engine Replacement [message #326235 is a reply to message #326234] |
Tue, 21 November 2017 20:32 |
bdub
Messages: 1578
Registered: February 2004
Location: Central Texas
Karma: 5
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YES! And a 4.10 Limited Slip with sticky front tires.
:-)
On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 8:24 PM, D C _Mac_ Macdonald wrote:
> Can you just imagine Matt's light weight coach with an 8.1 going to Jim
> Bound's drag race session in Florida?
>
>
> From: Gmclist on behalf of Matt Colie
> Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 18:28
> While visiting the most honorable wizard himself (Dave Lenzi) in his
> abode, we looked at and talked about an 8.1 he has in a front frame and
> about
> ready to put in a coach. He has decided that this is the only way to do
> an engine. (That is fine for him, he is a grand wizard.)
>
> So, I am going to investigate this at great length as my coaches engine
> needs attention. (Like a dead hole and oil in the air filter, it's telling
> me
> it needs some love.) After 70K of wonderful problem free miles, I can't
> refuse.
>
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bdub
'76 Palm Beach/Central Texas
www.bdub.net
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www.gmcmotorhomemarketplace.com
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www.facebook.com/groups/classicgmcmotorhomes
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| Re: 2017 Breakdown & Engine Replacement [message #326247 is a reply to message #326209] |
Wed, 22 November 2017 07:49 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Thanks for posting those photos Steve. I have to pull the clip from my parts coach (If I ever get started on that project) that I'm going to build the car hauler from. It was helpful to see the actual connection and the tip about spreading the frame is a big deal. I expect that 40 years of rust will lock it in place pretty good. When I pull mine, I won't have to worry about the Fiberglas because it's going away anyway. I'll just whack it off with a sawsall. Also I won't have to worry about the wiring or brake lines since everything will be done from scratch.
My clip is going to have a Caddy if I ever get down to John Beavers to pick it up.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: 2017 Breakdown & Engine Replacement [message #326281 is a reply to message #326222] |
Thu, 23 November 2017 09:45 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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No one has been able to give a good reason on why the piston broke. Many say ignition timing, some say over-heating. Even Dick Paterson couldn't give a good reason. I know my timing was set correctly. It remains a mystery.
Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] 2017 Breakdown & Engine Replacement [message #326282 is a reply to message #326223] |
Thu, 23 November 2017 09:47 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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After they magna-fluxed the engine parts I had a cracked block, cracked head and a cracked intake manifold. Thanks to Bob Donahue he had those parts available and sold them to me at a reasonable price. They ended up boring that block out .040.
Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] 2017 Breakdown & Engine Replacement [message #326284 is a reply to message #326220] |
Thu, 23 November 2017 10:19 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Then, you can pretty much rule out detonation as a cause of piston failure.
At some point,it really does not make much difference when only one piston
fails. I would lean towards manufacturing defect that took this long to
manifest itself into failure. Without destructive testing and scientific
analysis of the remaining bits, the cause will likely remain an educated
guess.
It is critically important to absolutely insure that no debris remains
anywhere in the oil cooler or lines. Important enough that S and J refuses
to warranty any engine that re-uses existing coolers. If the engine
grenades, I would agree. If it just plain wore out or had burned valves or
seats, I might gamble on flushing out, catching the stuff that comes out,
and then deciding after inspection confirms no metal particles were flushed
out.
But, it is your money and time invested here. Spend it wisely,
grasshopper. (Grin)
Jim Hupy
On Nov 23, 2017 7:49 AM, "Ray Erspamer" wrote:
No marks on the top of the piston at all.
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| Re: [GMCnet] 2017 Breakdown & Engine Replacement [message #326286 is a reply to message #326284] |
Thu, 23 November 2017 11:50 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 8:20 AM James Hupy wrote:
> Then, you can pretty much rule out detonation as a cause of piston failure.
> At some point,it really does not make much difference when only one piston
> fails. I would lean towards manufacturing defect that took this long to
> manifest itself into failure. Without destructive testing and scientific
> analysis of the remaining bits, the cause will likely remain an educated
> guess.
> It is critically important to absolutely insure that no debris remains
> anywhere in the oil cooler or lines. Important enough that S and J refuses
> to warranty any engine that re-uses existing coolers. If the engine
> grenades, I would agree. If it just plain wore out or had burned valves or
> seats, I might gamble on flushing out, catching the stuff that comes out,
> and then deciding after inspection confirms no metal particles were flushed
> out.
> But, it is your money and time invested here. Spend it wisely,
> grasshopper. (Grin)
> Jim Hupy
>
> On Nov 23, 2017 7:49 AM, "Ray Erspamer" wrote:
>
> No marks on the top of the piston at all.
> Did you check for Cross Fire
most common thing we all miss.
>
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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