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[GMCnet] Generator [message #325651] Thu, 02 November 2017 10:11 Go to next message
glwgmc is currently offline  glwgmc   United States
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Registered: June 2004
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Senior Member
Hi Steve,

That is a very sophisticated contraption for such a small box (approx. 14x10x8 inches). It appears to do many desirable things well. Note however that it requires 230 VAC for input and our Onan generators only put out 120VAC. Note also that you have to request the unit be reset from 50 to 60 hz that we use in NA. If you are thinking of ditching the Onan and using one of the manual start, manual fuel Hondas it looks like it would work well and fit well in a GMC. Get a long extension cord to get the noise from the Honda away from you and your neighbors. Do a search for people who have actually used any of the Li technology batteries in an RV application. Heat management is a must for long battery life and to maintain the battery capacity over an extended period. The Victron stuff I have used is very high quality and performs as advertised. I may look into one of these when I decide to replace the Heart modified sine wave inverters in our Prevost since the 17.5 kw generator there puts out 230VAC and we already have a very large AGM battery bank (6 - 8D batteries) and auto gen start.

Jerry
Jerry Work
The Dovetail Joint
Fine furniture designed and hand crafted in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building in historic Kerby, OR

glwork@mac.com
http://jerrywork.com
===========
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2017 10:53:35 -0600
From: Steve Weinstock
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Generator
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I'm giving thought to a large battery bank (maybe lithium) and this:

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Honda%20white%20paper%20GB.pdf



http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p63911-generator-battery-combo.html

Thoughts ??
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Jerry & Sharon Work
78 Royale
Kerby, OR
Re: [GMCnet] Generator [message #325657 is a reply to message #325651] Thu, 02 November 2017 11:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jhbridges is currently offline  jhbridges   United States
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Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
Senior Member
The harbor freight one is half the price. I doubt the Honda will outlast two of them.

--johnny


Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
Re: [GMCnet] Generator [message #325659 is a reply to message #325657] Thu, 02 November 2017 14:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
johnd01 is currently offline  johnd01   United States
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Registered: July 2017
Location: Sacrameot
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The real problem with this system is that you would need to convert the 230
volts to 120v. Not a big deal, to keep it light put in a 240-volt center
tapped autoformer. Beef up the battery, add solar and a charge
controller and you may not need to deploy the generator.

On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:

> The harbor freight one is half the price. I doubt the Honda will outlast
> two of them.
>
> --johnny
>
> --
> 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> "I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
> in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>



--

*John Phillips*
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Johnd01 John Phillips Avion A2600 TZE064V101164 Rancho Cordova, CA (Sacramento)
Re: [GMCnet] Generator [message #325661 is a reply to message #325651] Thu, 02 November 2017 15:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jhbridges is currently offline  jhbridges   United States
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
Senior Member
My coach has a split bus breaker box with one side of the 50A cord fed to each. Given there are no 240V appliances it it, doesn't matter whether it's plugged into 240 or 120.

--johnny


Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
Re: [GMCnet] Generator [message #325664 is a reply to message #325661] Thu, 02 November 2017 15:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
johnd01 is currently offline  johnd01   United States
Messages: 354
Registered: July 2017
Location: Sacrameot
Karma: -1
Senior Member
Johnny,
It depends.
Case 1: If you have 120-volt devices on both sides of the split you will
need an adapter to feed 120-volts to both sides of your 50-amp cord. The
50-amp neutral wire becomes a weak point but the probability of you putting
more than 50-amps is quite low.
If you can move all your load to one side of your split you only need to
power one side of the 50-amp cord with an adapter but you will be limited
to 40-amps of 120-volts

Case 2: No problem. 240 volts with each side of the split the split getting
120 volts 180 degrees out of phase with each other. The neutral wire will
carry the difference current between the two busses.

On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:

> My coach has a split bus breaker box with one side of the 50A cord fed to
> each. Given there are no 240V appliances it it, doesn't matter whether it's
> plugged into 240 or 120.
>
> --johnny
>
> --
> 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> "I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
> in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>



--

*John Phillips*
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Johnd01 John Phillips Avion A2600 TZE064V101164 Rancho Cordova, CA (Sacramento)
Re: [GMCnet] Generator [message #325666 is a reply to message #325651] Thu, 02 November 2017 17:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jhbridges is currently offline  jhbridges   United States
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
Senior Member
It doesn't matter to the coach whether both hot legs of the 50 amp service are in phase or out.... the neutral leg is sufficiently large to handle them. And if the bus is split at the breakers, you don't care how the pedestal at the RV park is fed.

--johnny


Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
Re: [GMCnet] Generator [message #325667 is a reply to message #325664] Thu, 02 November 2017 17:30 Go to previous message
Richard Denney is currently offline  Richard Denney   United States
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
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Senior Member
Each leg of 240-volt service carries 120 volts with respect to neutral, and
240 volts only with respect to the other hot.

If both hots on a 50-amp plug are fed from the same 120VAC source, then the
two buses are in phase. If they are fed from a 240VAC source, the two sides
are out of phase.

It's true that a 240VAC supply is accustomed to carrying very little on the
neutral, since each hot is the return path for the other. But there are
240VAC appliances that have 120VAC circuits in them (clothes dryers are a
common example) and will return some current on the neutral. But one has to
be careful to find wiring that provides enough neutral conductor to carry
everything. The usual appliance pigtail has #8 on the two hots and #10 or
even #12 on the neutral.

A 6000-watt Onan is 6000 watts at 120VAC, which is 50 amps at 120VAC. That
hot output is wired to both hots in a 50-amp receptacle (as supplied in the
early coaches), in parallel. The maximum that can be drawn is 50 amps,
total of both buses. A 50-amp receptacle at a park is 240 volts, but the
coach will still only draw up to 50 amps total of both legs (actually, 40
amps total from a 120VAC source--20 amps on each bus, as equipped by GM).
So, the neutral never has to carry more than 50 amps (er--40). When I
installed a new 50-amp pigtail, I got one that had #8 wire on both hots and
the neutral (and the safety ground)--not the common type but still readily
available. My pigtail reaches my power opening only, but I no longer use
the generator receptacle, and have instead installed a 50-amp transfer
switch.

I could split my two hots and feed them from separate receptacles because
they are not wired together anywhere in the coach. But they would be
sharing a neutral and that would absolutely trip every 120VAC GFI device,
which demands that the neutral current be identical to the hot current.

Rick "who uses a 50-amp extension cable from Camping World to reach the
pedestal, or a 30-amp cable plus an adapter which is usually plenty" Denney



On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 4:58 PM, John Phillips
wrote:

> Johnny,
> It depends.
> Case 1: If you have 120-volt devices on both sides of the split you will
> need an adapter to feed 120-volts to both sides of your 50-amp cord. The
> 50-amp neutral wire becomes a weak point but the probability of you putting
> more than 50-amps is quite low.
> If you can move all your load to one side of your split you only need to
> power one side of the 50-amp cord with an adapter but you will be limited
> to 40-amps of 120-volts
>
> Case 2: No problem. 240 volts with each side of the split the split getting
> 120 volts 180 degrees out of phase with each other. The neutral wire will
> carry the difference current between the two busses.
>
> On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Johnny Bridges via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> My coach has a split bus breaker box with one side of the 50A cord fed to
>> each. Given there are no 240V appliances it it, doesn't matter whether
> it's
>> plugged into 240 or 120.
>>
>> --johnny
>>
>> --
>> 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
>> Braselton, Ga.
>> "I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to
> me
>> in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *John Phillips*
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>



--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
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