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| [GMCnet] Induction cooktop run off an inverter [message #325026] |
Mon, 16 October 2017 22:21  |
glwgmc
Messages: 1014
Registered: June 2004
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Have any of you had success running an induction cooktop off of an inverter? If so, please post the make and model of the inverter and the make and model of the induction cooktop.
This technology is ideally suited for our GMCs as it heats more quickly than other stove technologies (boil water in a couple of minutes) so it draws relatively little from the battery bank powered by a sine wave inverter of appropriate size and it won't heat up the interior like propane and resistance heat cooking will.
Our Prevost came with a Gagganau two burner 220vac quartz cooktop that will only work if plugged into 50 amp shore power or if the generator is running. We purchased a single burner 120 vac induction cooktop with which we are very impressed, but it will not run off of the Heart modified square wave inverters (two of them) stock to this coach. Everything else runs just fine.
Replacing both inverters with pure sine wave units would cost $5000 so I am considering just adding another inverter, a pure sine wave one, dedicated for this purpose but want to be sure which combination will work properly.
Jerry
Jerry Work
Kerby, OR
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Jerry & Sharon Work
78 Royale
Kerby, OR
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| Re: [GMCnet] Induction cooktop run off an inverter [message #325030 is a reply to message #325026] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 00:15  |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
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My induction cooktop would turn on and whine while hooked up to 3 different inverters, but would not achieve the magnetic resonance necessary to make the pan hot. It was a nice dream while it lasted, but 8 months out of the year I need the A/C running in there if the sun is shining on the vehicle in any way. No inverter I can afford is going to power that, and if I cook in there I'm gonna have the A/C on anyway. Having the portable induction unit gives you a large counter when it is put away or put back in the corner when the oven/stove is gone.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Induction cooktop run off an inverter [message #325032 is a reply to message #325031] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 00:41 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
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Give Dick Wright a call at WRICO Int. in Eugene.
(541) 744-4333 Tell him I sent you.
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] Induction cooktop run off an inverter [message #325035 is a reply to message #325032] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 03:52 |
johnd01
Messages: 354
Registered: July 2017
Location: Sacrameot
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For use in an RV Eurodib S2F1 Double Countertop Induction Range - 120V,
1800W looks like it can be set into the counter so it does not take up
space when it is not in use.
A 2000W pure sine inverter should be able to run it.
Chef'sStar Touch Panel 1800W is single burner unit that should also work in
as a built-in counter unit. It is actually a countertop unit.
I have gas range but I cook on 2 NuWave PIC 1800W portable induction
cooktop countertop burner. That is as much power as I could find on a 120V
system. I did try a 240 volt 5 element 4800 W. 1 high power element worked
well for 6 qt pressure cooker but did not have the control so I reverted to
the smaller units.
I like the controllability of the PIC. It has 5-degree steps from 100 to
575. It can be programmed to cook for a time and temp. then change to a new
set up to 10 times.
There is a newer version that can cut back to 900 watts but 900 watts does
not cook very fast. There are times I would like to have 3000 watts.
If you have an undersized inverter you can set the temp low and work your
way up monitoring the power with a kill-o-watt meter till you max out your
inverter. To run the PIC at full power you will need at least 170 A 12 V
DC to feed a 2000 W pure sine inverter.
On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 10:41 PM, Hal StClair
wrote:
> Give Dick Wright a call at WRICO Int. in Eugene.
> (541) 744-4333 Tell him I sent you.
> Hal
> --
> 1977 Royale 101348,
>
> 1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
>
> 1975 Eleganza II, 101230,
>
> 1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
>
> Rio Rancho, NM
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
*John Phillips*
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Johnd01
John Phillips
Avion A2600 TZE064V101164
Rancho Cordova, CA (Sacramento)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Induction cooktop run off an inverter [message #325037 is a reply to message #325026] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 08:02 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Learn the difference in American Watts and heathen chinee Watts. If the chinee is producing, derate it about 20% If it's consuming, increase it by about 15%.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Induction cooktop run off an inverter [message #325054 is a reply to message #325026] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 16:02 |
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RF_Burns
Messages: 2276
Registered: June 2008
Location: S. Ontario, Canada
Karma: 3
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Consider the power you are consuming from your batteries at these power levels. For easy calculating lets use 1800 watts load and 100Amp/hr battery, we can scale it from there.
1800 watts @ 85% efficiency = ~2120watts input to the inverter. your fully charged battery at 12.6v will with internal battery resistance, connector and wire resistance, and fuse resistance, easily drop to 11.5v at the inverter terminals. 2120/11.5v = ~185amps. Inverters typically will shut-down below 10.5V input, at that point the input current is over 200amps.
Now you don't want to discharge your lead acid battery below 50%. Your 100Amp/hr rating is for a 20C rate, or 5amps over 20 hrs. At 185amps, its capacity will drop like a stone, likely down to 50% or less, so now you have only 50Amp/hrs and at 50% discharge is now only 25amp/hrs. so 25Amp/hrs @ 185Amps = about 8 minutes till you are discharged to the battery damage point.
So you have 6 x 6v batteries and you have lots of power... so that's about 3 x 150 = 450amp/hrs, so you have about 40 minutes to cook your stew.
Then it will take 10-15 hours to recharge the batteries.
High current, deep discharge will severely shorten the life your your batteries.
IMHO Better to run your generator for a few minutes and keep your batteries for lighter loads
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
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| Re: [GMCnet] Induction cooktop run off an inverter [message #325064 is a reply to message #325058] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 18:52 |
Jim Miller
Messages: 501
Registered: March 2008
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On Oct 17, 2017, at 7:02 PM, John Yurtinus wrote:
> This is one thing I never quite got. What's the allure of an induction cooktop in an RV? I don't see any advantage over propane and a whole lot of drawbacks.
Hi John,
I am usually a lurker on GMCnet and only pipe up occasionally. I, too, am interested in the reasoning behind using any electrical cooking method in a GMC be it inductive or resistive - but even more so I was wondering why one would even consider running it from an inverter.
Like solar panels and wind turbines, these inverters seem to have some magical Star Wars light-saber allure and end up getting used for all the wrong reasons. Unfortunately the EE concepts of P=IE and P=I^2R (re conductor loss) are usually ignored on the inverter setups and result in installations that are either marginal in performance or are outright dangerous.
I guess if one has an unlimited supply of DC then drawing 12V @ 200 amps for a half hour while cooking dinner is OK..but why not just use propane? Or, if you really must have electrical cooking - start the genset for a bit?
Sign me “baffled”...
—Jim
Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
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Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza II
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
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| Re: [GMCnet] Induction cooktop run off an inverter [message #325078 is a reply to message #325064] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 21:23 |
johnd01
Messages: 354
Registered: July 2017
Location: Sacrameot
Karma: -1
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The main reason to not use propane is to eliminate the propane from the
coach. The OP has an electric cooktop installed. Adding a secondary cook
method of propane would be kind of complex.
Next, a good inductive cook element gives a lot of control. One of which is
to cook a lot of things at 210F and use a lot less than max power. When I
do cook food that has water in it I cook at about 210 sometimes 215. Adding
a lot more energy just makes steam. Butter burns about 250F so if I am
cooking with butter I cook at 240F.
My PIC unit uses 630 watts to warm up if set below 275, at 275 it jumps to
1036W, at 400 it is using 1366W and at 560 F it is using 1595W
I put 32.25 oz of water in a saucepan set time for 20 min. temp. at 275F at
8 min. it was boiling so I cut it back to 210. At shutdown, it had used
250Whs.
5.95 oz of water vapor was boiled off.
If you want to fill a 6-quart pressure cooker you will need every bit of
power this unit will give and a lot of patients.
If I want to boil sooner I could have started at 570F but if I wanted to
save my RV batteries I could have set time for 25 min. and temp at 210 and
had about the same results with less energy used. Once I reduced temp. to
210 power reading fluctuated between 275 and 620W.
If you are just cooking a little something for 2 you would not have to
sacrifice the batteries.
Set time to 25 min. and temp to 210F, 32.00 0z required 200Wh and produced
4.45 Oz steam. My altitude is about 120 feet.
Question to OP, What are the power ratings on your 2 inverters? Are they
wired together in series to give you 240 volts in your coach? What do you
have for house batteries?
On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 4:52 PM, Jim Miller wrote:
> On Oct 17, 2017, at 7:02 PM, John Yurtinus wrote:
>
>> This is one thing I never quite got. What's the allure of an induction
> cooktop in an RV? I don't see any advantage over propane and a whole lot of
> drawbacks.
>
> Hi John,
>
> I am usually a lurker on GMCnet and only pipe up occasionally. I, too, am
> interested in the reasoning behind using any electrical cooking method in a
> GMC be it inductive or resistive - but even more so I was wondering why one
> would even consider running it from an inverter.
>
> Like solar panels and wind turbines, these inverters seem to have some
> magical Star Wars light-saber allure and end up getting used for all the
> wrong reasons. Unfortunately the EE concepts of P=IE and P=I^2R (re
> conductor loss) are usually ignored on the inverter setups and result in
> installations that are either marginal in performance or are outright
> dangerous.
>
> I guess if one has an unlimited supply of DC then drawing 12V @ 200 amps
> for a half hour while cooking dinner is OK..but why not just use propane?
> Or, if you really must have electrical cooking - start the genset for a bit?
>
> Sign me “baffled”...
> —Jim
>
> Jim Miller
> 1977 Eleganza
> 1977 Royale
> Hamilton, OH
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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*John Phillips*
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Johnd01
John Phillips
Avion A2600 TZE064V101164
Rancho Cordova, CA (Sacramento)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Induction cooktop run off an inverter [message #325088 is a reply to message #325084] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 23:46 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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I think he's asking for his Prevost conversion. It probably has at least 4 8D batteries @ 250 AH each. Not really in the same league as our GMC's.
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] Induction cooktop run off an inverter [message #325089 is a reply to message #325088] |
Wed, 18 October 2017 00:15 |
johnd01
Messages: 354
Registered: July 2017
Location: Sacrameot
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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from OP:
This Prevost, like many current high-end coaches, is an all-electric coach
with 1850 ah of AGM batteries. All the appliances are residential devices.
There is no propane on board although I do carry a small bottle to power
the propane fire pit and the BBQ.
On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 9:46 PM, Hal StClair
wrote:
> I think he's asking for his Prevost conversion. It probably has at least 4
> 8D batteries @ 250 AH each. Not really in the same league as our GMC's.
> Hal
> --
> 1977 Royale 101348,
>
> 1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
>
> 1975 Eleganza II, 101230,
>
> 1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
>
> Rio Rancho, NM
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
*John Phillips*
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Johnd01
John Phillips
Avion A2600 TZE064V101164
Rancho Cordova, CA (Sacramento)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Induction cooktop run off an inverter [message #325091 is a reply to message #325084] |
Wed, 18 October 2017 01:30 |
Olly Schmidt
Messages: 1265
Registered: February 2014
Location: Germany and Scottsville, ...
Karma: 8
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Rob Mueller schrieb/wrote
> I see no reason to remove the LPG system from the GMC.
for me it means that I do not have to invest roughly 2500EUR into my GMC
to make it street legal in Germany. German authorities do not like ASME
certified stuff in a motorhome, it has to be TüV certified. Also, quiet
a few tunnels do not allow LPG carrying vehicles. I do not want to
repeat the endeavour I had in front of the Boston tunnel where I had to
manoeuvre the GMC away from the toll collector in the middle of rush
hour ;-)
I do like LPG for the fridge in the 26', but the 23' will be
all-electric, current plans call for ~400Ah of LiFePO4 battery, plus
utilizing a gasoline powered heater for the cooling water plus some fan
powered water-to-air heating solution.
--
Best regards
Peer Oliver Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA
'76a Eleganza II 26', VA
'73 Sequoia 23', Germany, SH
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Best regards
Olly Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x18a9 3a1f 4196 bf22
'76a Eleganza II, VA
'73 Sequoia, SH, Germany
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| Re: [GMCnet] Induction cooktop run off an inverter [message #325094 is a reply to message #325091] |
Wed, 18 October 2017 08:33 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Peer,
I guess I should have noted that I was talking about a GMC in the USA.
As far as tunnels go the same rule goes for the Holland and Lincoln tunnels between New Jersey and New York, the only legal way to enter or leave Manhattan in a vehicle that has an LPG or other flammable gas container on board is on the upper deck of the George Washington Bridge.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Peer Oliver Schmidt GMC
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 2:30 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Induction cooktop run off an inverter
Rob Mueller schrieb/wrote
> I see no reason to remove the LPG system from the GMC.
for me it means that I do not have to invest roughly 2500EUR into my GMC to make it street legal in Germany. German authorities do not like ASME certified stuff in a motorhome, it has to be TüV certified. Also, quiet
a few tunnels do not allow LPG carrying vehicles. I do not want to repeat the endeavour I had in front of the Boston tunnel where I had to manoeuvre the GMC away from the toll collector in the middle of rush hour ;-)
I do like LPG for the fridge in the 26', but the 23' will be all-electric, current plans call for ~400Ah of LiFePO4 battery, plus utilizing a gasoline powered heater for the cooling water plus some fan powered water-to-air heating solution.
Best regards
Peer Oliver Schmidt
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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