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[GMCnet] IOTA 50A Transfer Switches [message #324775] Mon, 09 October 2017 22:04 Go to next message
Ken Henderson is currently offline  Ken Henderson   United States
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
Senior Member
With the recent discussions of transfer switches, JUST IN CASE someone
installed an IOTA 50A, this should be checked out:
=======================================
... is recalling certain 2008-2009 Raptor toyhaulers, models 3110 and 3018,
equipped with IOTA ITS-50R transfer switches. These transfer switches may
fail when exposed to elevated electrical loads in higher ambient
temperatures. If the transfer switch fails, it can increase the risk of a
fire.
=======================================

Ken H.
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
Re: [GMCnet] IOTA 50A Transfer Switches [message #324783 is a reply to message #324775] Tue, 10 October 2017 07:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
Senior Member
Ken,

Thanks!

The only thing that the IOTA powers in Double Trouble is the Sharp combination Microwave / Grill / Convection Oven (SMGCO). I
installed it so that I wouldn't disturb people by starting up the Onan to use SMGCO and to date I haven't gotten it to work. When I
hit Start on the microwave the two 6vdc / 220 amp hour batteries voltage drops to a level that causes the inverter to shut down. I
have been hoping to get it to a GMCMI Convention or rally that you and/or Ken Burton are attending to solicit your help trying to
figger out why it does that. REMEMBER I am Electrically Challenged.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Henderson
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 11:05 AM
To: GMC Mail List
Subject: [GMCnet] IOTA 50A Transfer Switches

With the recent discussions of transfer switches, JUST IN CASE someone installed an IOTA 50A, this should be checked out:
=======================================
. is recalling certain 2008-2009 Raptor toyhaulers, models 3110 and 3018, equipped with IOTA ITS-50R transfer switches. These
transfer switches may fail when exposed to elevated electrical loads in higher ambient temperatures. If the transfer switch fails,
it can increase the risk of a fire.
=======================================

Ken H.


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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: [GMCnet] IOTA 50A Transfer Switches [message #324785 is a reply to message #324783] Tue, 10 October 2017 09:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hal StClair   United States
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Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
Senior Member
Rob, what size inverter do you have? What size cables and how far is the inverter from the batteries? Anything less than a 2000 watt is probably going to struggle and even with that size inverter your run time will be VERY short. Microwave's draw an awful large load, not a real good candidate for running off batteries,IMHO.
Hal


"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane." 1977 Royale 101348, 1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered, 1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout, Rio Rancho, NM

[Updated on: Tue, 10 October 2017 09:09]

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Re: [GMCnet] IOTA 50A Transfer Switches [message #324788 is a reply to message #324775] Tue, 10 October 2017 09:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jhbridges is currently offline  jhbridges   United States
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Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
Senior Member
What Hal said. You ain't got sufficient battery there to run the Sharp which is a power hog. Making hot with electricity is an inefficient idea, which doesn't matter at home where there's a wire delivering it; but certainly does when the supply is limited. Plus, >if< the inverter isn't a pure sine wave box, the microwave part of the Sharp may not be happy with the stepped waveform anyway. Run the Onan or get a gas stove.

I copied this off a Sharp ad:

900-watt convection microwave provides both browning and crisping capabilities
1500-watt "double" grills emit heat over and under food; 11 power levels

900 Watts at 50% efficiency - good for a cooker - would want 1800 Watts off the inveter. !500 Watts for the grill, since it's resistive will be essentially 100% efficient. Both will overload a 2KW inverter at turnon. Both on together will stall it. If the inverter runs 90% efficient or so, it's gonna draw around 180 - 200 Amperes. This is going to want #2 cable from the barttery to it at a minimum. And close in the bargain. This is close to being an exercise in futility Smile

--johnny


Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
Re: [GMCnet] IOTA 50A Transfer Switches [message #324798 is a reply to message #324785] Tue, 10 October 2017 14:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
Senior Member
Hal/ Johnny,

Here's a sequence of photos of the install:

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6710-xantrex-inverter-installation.html

Note that after these photos were taken a 30 amp ATS was installed. It feeds 110 vac from shore / Onan power or the Xantrex to the
Sharp.

I can't remember the wire gage that feeds the Sharpe from the ATS but I've been told that could be a problem. I've also been told
that two 6 VDC / 225 amp hour batteries aren't enough to feed the Sharp through the Xantrex.

My plan was to increase the wire size from the Xantrex to the 30 amp ATS and to the Sharp and see what happens. If that doesn't work
see if there's enough room to put three 12 volt deep cycle batteries connected in parallel where the two 6 vdc batteries are.

Having noted all this I will be selling Double Trouble (too many memories of Helen) and may just swap this all over to the Kingsley.
There is a LOT more room under the driver side bed in the Kingsley and I believe I can fit more batteries.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Hal StClair
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 10:08 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] IOTA 50A Transfer Switches

Rob, what size inverter do you have? What size cables and how far is the inverter from the batteries? Anything less than a 2000 watt
is probably going to struggle and even with that size inverter your run time will be VERY short. Microwave's draw an awful large
load, not a real good candidate for running off batteries.
Hal


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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: [GMCnet] IOTA 50A Transfer Switches [message #324801 is a reply to message #324775] Tue, 10 October 2017 17:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
habbyguy is currently offline  habbyguy   United States
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Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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Here's a quickie chart I put together to show the amount of voltage loss in a theoretical 25' length of cable. It's easy to see that fatter cable is a good investment, because inverters are notoriously finicky about the input voltage - I know my 1000 watt (continuous) inverter will happily crank out 7 amps of 120VAC now that it's fed with 2/0 and 1/0 cable (along with the original run of #4 in parallel). Before I put in the monster cable, the microwave (original) or my little 7 amp vacuum would trip the protection circuit in the inverter. Now it just dims the lights in the coach when 100+ amps comes streaming out of the house batteries. Wink

http://www.habcycles.com/batts.JPG
The amp columns on the right show the disparity in load between two batteries located in different parts of the coach (separated by 25' of cable). As you can see, even with "too small cable", the load isn't all that far from balanced - which is kind of against the theory that one battery will melt into a lump while the other one doesn't get a workout. Wink


Mark Hickey Mesa, AZ 1978 Royale Center Kitchen

[Updated on: Tue, 10 October 2017 17:33]

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Re: [GMCnet] IOTA 50A Transfer Switches [message #324809 is a reply to message #324775] Wed, 11 October 2017 08:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jhbridges is currently offline  jhbridges   United States
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Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
Senior Member
The wire to the Xantrex at 1/0 ought to be big enough. The 110v side isn't likely to be a problem. However, start surge of the appliances may well be greater than the inverter can supply... and battery life isn't going to be great in any case. I tried a simple Haier 900 Watt microwave - no grill or 'convection' in the ads - and it will run, but the battery drain is large. Get a starter ammeter (A meter which has a shoe on the back which fits over the battery cable) and see what current your setup is drawing. If it flicks to one side and falls back, the inverter is seeing too great a load and stalling as a result. Assuming the inverter works.

--johnny


Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
Re: [GMCnet] IOTA 50A Transfer Switches [message #324850 is a reply to message #324809] Thu, 12 October 2017 06:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
Senior Member
Johnny,

That's what I thought, however, I figgered I'd increase the wire size and see what happens.

I thought I'd take a moment and explain why I wanted to run the microwave off an inverter. Helen and I were parked at a rest sstop
for lunch and I fired up the Onan to microwave something. Two minutes after I had done so I heard a knock at our door and when I
opened the door a guy told me that it was distrurbing his families lunch at a table nearby. Not wanting a confrontation I apologized
and shut the Onan down.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Johnny Bridges via Gmclist
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 9:56 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Cc: Johnny Bridges
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] IOTA 50A Transfer Switches

The wire to the Xantrex at 1/0 ought to be big enough. The 110v side isn't likely to be a problem. However, start surge of the
appliances may well be greater than the inverter can supply... and battery life isn't going to be great in any case. I tried a
simple Haier 900 Watt microwave - no grill or 'convection' in the ads - and it will run, but the battery drain is large. Get a
starter ammeter (A meter which has a shoe on the back which fits over the battery cable) and see what current your setup is drawing.
If it flicks to one side and falls back, the inverter is seeing too great a load and stalling as a result. Assuming the inverter
works.

--johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased


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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: [GMCnet] IOTA 50A Transfer Switches [message #324852 is a reply to message #324775] Thu, 12 October 2017 08:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jhbridges is currently offline  jhbridges   United States
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
Senior Member
I'm cognizant of spoiling the other guy's lunch. Howsomever, moving elsewhere in the rest are or stuffing the high exhaust on the onan seems less trouble and expense Smile

--johnny


Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
Re: [GMCnet] IOTA 50A Transfer Switches [message #324870 is a reply to message #324852] Thu, 12 October 2017 17:10 Go to previous message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
Senior Member
Johnny,

Agreed, however, I already have the bits and pieces and if it's a matter of adding a couple of batteries when I install it in the
Kingsley I'll spend the bucks.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Johnny Bridges via Gmclist
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 9:09 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Cc: Johnny Bridges
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] IOTA 50A Transfer Switches

I'm cognizant of spoiling the other guy's lunch. Howsomever, moving elsewhere in the rest are or stuffing the high exhaust on the
onan seems less trouble and expense :)

--johnny


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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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