| Restart a 403 [message #324596] |
Wed, 04 October 2017 01:24  |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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In the next few weeks I'm going to restart a GMC that has not run in 19 years. Other than changing the oil and filter and making sure the trans and coolant are full, what else? Belts, hoses, etc. will be taken care of after I get it running first. I am also thinking about pulling plugs and putting some oil in the cylinders.
I was thinking about pulling the distributor and running the oil pump with a drill. I have forgotten which way to turn it. I will check the advance weights for proper operation before reinstalling. Initial start up will be from a gas can and not the tanks.
Anything else?
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Restart a 403 [message #324597 is a reply to message #324596] |
Wed, 04 October 2017 01:40  |
johnd01
Messages: 354
Registered: July 2017
Location: Sacrameot
Karma: -1
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I would crank it a while to get the oil moving before getting gas to the
carburetor. An easy way to get all the parts moving under no load rather
than just running the oil pump.
On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 11:24 PM, Ken Burton wrote:
> In the next few weeks I'm going to restart a GMC that has not run in 19
> years. Other than changing the oil and filter and making sure the trans and
> coolant are full, what else? Belts, hoses, etc. will be taken care of
> after I get it running first. I am also thinking about pulling plugs and
> putting some oil in the cylinders.
>
> I was thinking about pulling the distributor and running the oil pump with
> a drill. I have forgotten which way to turn it. I will check the advance
> weights for proper operation before reinstalling. Initial start up will
> be from a gas can and not the tanks.
>
> Anything else?
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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--
*John Phillips*
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Johnd01
John Phillips
Avion A2600 TZE064V101164
Rancho Cordova, CA (Sacramento)
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| Re: Restart a 403 [message #324598 is a reply to message #324596] |
Wed, 04 October 2017 04:24 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Pull the plugs and oil the cylinders.
Take a wrench to the crank and turn it through at least two revolutions. If you don't insure the engine is free you could damage something if it is stuck. Ask me how I know how I got bent pushrods on mine. The starter has adequate torque to damage parts if they don't want to play well with others.
Find #1 TDC and pulll the dist and run the oil pump.
Then spin it with the starter while the plugs are out.
TDC again and reinstall the distributor.
The above is what I should have done. Not too bad after all as I found other problems that required a rebuild.
This was on an engine that had been running two years prior to this and stored indoors.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Restart a 403 [message #324600 is a reply to message #324596] |
Wed, 04 October 2017 06:25 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
John Beaver and I have recovered 3 coaches over the past couple of years.
Two parked outdoors for over 20 years and one unknown but probably 10+. In
every case, we pulled the plugs and rotated the engine by hand. Then used
an add-on gas can (I now have an old-fashioned 5 gallon jerry can with a
mounted electric fuel pump to fit nicely on the front bumper) to feed at
least the initial start up.
We didn't rotate the oil pump, but probably should have. To refresh your
memory, it rotates CCW -- just check the plug wires vs the firing order.
We were VERY fortunate -- all 3 engines fired up easily, did and do run
great.
Ken H.
On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 2:24 AM, Ken Burton wrote:
> In the next few weeks I'm going to restart a GMC that has not run in 19
> years. Other than changing the oil and filter and making sure the trans and
> coolant are full, what else? Belts, hoses, etc. will be taken care of
> after I get it running first. I am also thinking about pulling plugs and
> putting some oil in the cylinders.
>
> I was thinking about pulling the distributor and running the oil pump with
> a drill. I have forgotten which way to turn it. I will check the advance
> weights for proper operation before reinstalling. Initial start up will
> be from a gas can and not the tanks.
>
> Anything else?
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Restart a 403 [message #324602 is a reply to message #324596] |
Wed, 04 October 2017 07:51 |
Chris Tyler
Messages: 458
Registered: September 2013
Location: Odessa FL
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Someone who knows olds engines specifically should chime in, but tI have encountered engines that wont develop oil psi without the distributor in place so you need a specific tool or an old distibutoe with the gears ground off.
I like to use ATF in the cylinders as I think it penetrates better.
Regardong the belts and hoses, the smart play is to replace them now rather than gamble and end up doing it on the side of the road.
76 Glenbrook
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| Re: Restart a 403 [message #324603 is a reply to message #324602] |
Wed, 04 October 2017 08:59 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Chris Tyler wrote on Wed, 04 October 2017 07:51Someone who knows olds engines specifically should chime in, but tI have encountered engines that wont develop oil psi without the distributor in place so you need a specific tool or an old distibutoe with the gears ground off.
I like to use ATF in the cylinders as I think it penetrates better.
Regardong the belts and hoses, the smart play is to replace them now rather than gamble and end up doing it on the side of the road.
Olds will not build oil pressure with Dist out. If the Dist that drives an oil pump comes out with a gear on the end there will be no oil pressure with the dizzy out.
The idea of spinning the pump first is to make sure oil gets everywhere it can under pressure. I run mine until the drill motor gets too warm for comfort.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Restart a 403 [message #324604 is a reply to message #324603] |
Wed, 04 October 2017 09:52 |
GMC.LES
Messages: 505
Registered: April 2014
Karma: -2
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Senior Member |
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Pulling plugs and turning crank by hand for a min of 2 full turns is highly recommended. I've had engines that had stuck valves from sitting. The engine turned over easily then thunk, it stopped. Turning by hand usually won't damage anything, doing it with a starter will bend or break parts.
On one engine with a stuck valve, i freed it up using lots of Kroil in each cylinder through the plug holes. After it had sat a while, I then bumped the stuck valve lightly by rocking the crank. I didn't know exactly which valve was stuck and wasn't in a situation to pull the engine apart at that moment. The kroil vapor must have been sufficient because the valve loosened up the next day. When I started the engine, I used a 10:1 oil mix for the first gallon, and reduced the ratio by half with each additional gallon. Lots of initial smoke, but the engine loosened right up and ran smoothly.
With a stuck valve that you loosen up, I wouldn't consider that engine being a reliable runner. The stuck valve is likely due to rust which will destroy the guides like lapping compound. I'd pull the heads for a refresh before putting it into service.
Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'
> On Oct 4, 2017, at 9:59 AM, Steve Southworth wrote:
>
> Chris Tyler wrote on Wed, 04 October 2017 07:51
>> Someone who knows olds engines specifically should chime in, but tI have encountered engines that wont develop oil psi without the distributor in
>> place so you need a specific tool or an old distibutoe with the gears ground off.
>>
>> I like to use ATF in the cylinders as I think it penetrates better.
>>
>> Regardong the belts and hoses, the smart play is to replace them now rather than gamble and end up doing it on the side of the road.
>
>
> Olds will not build oil pressure with Dist out. If the Dist that drives an oil pump comes out with a gear on the end there will be no oil pressure
> with the dizzy out.
>
> The idea of spinning the pump first is to make sure oil gets everywhere it can under pressure. I run mine until the drill motor gets too warm for
> comfort.
> --
> Steve Southworth
> 1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
> 1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
> Palmyra WI
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Restart a 403 [message #324605 is a reply to message #324603] |
Wed, 04 October 2017 10:01 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Au Contraire, I drive Olds oil pumps with an old oil pump drive shaft with
a hex socket welded on the end. One end goes down the distributor bore, the
other into my cordless drill. All Olds engine distributors used in our
motorhomes turn counter clockwise when viewed from the top of the engine.
The oil pumps are self contained, and do quite well when turned with a
cordless drill with enough beans to turn them. If you are anal, rotate the
engine to uncover the oil passages along the crankshaft a few times while
you are prelubeing. If you are really, really anal, pull the rocker arm
covers and check that you do not have any stuck valves. They don't play
well with reciprocating pistons.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Oct 4, 2017 7:01 AM, "Steve Southworth" wrote:
> Chris Tyler wrote on Wed, 04 October 2017 07:51
>> Someone who knows olds engines specifically should chime in, but tI have
> encountered engines that wont develop oil psi without the distributor in
>> place so you need a specific tool or an old distibutoe with the gears
> ground off.
>>
>> I like to use ATF in the cylinders as I think it penetrates better.
>>
>> Regardong the belts and hoses, the smart play is to replace them now
> rather than gamble and end up doing it on the side of the road.
>
>
> Olds will not build oil pressure with Dist out. If the Dist that drives
> an oil pump comes out with a gear on the end there will be no oil pressure
> with the dizzy out.
>
> The idea of spinning the pump first is to make sure oil gets everywhere it
> can under pressure. I run mine until the drill motor gets too warm for
> comfort.
> --
> Steve Southworth
> 1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
> 1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
> Palmyra WI
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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| Re: Restart a 403 [message #324606 is a reply to message #324596] |
Wed, 04 October 2017 10:40 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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None of this addresses the cam lobes and lifter faces. Cranking slowly is the worst thing as no oil gets slung from the crank up to those surfaces and you are dry metal to metal. Using a drill on oil pump does not get that accomplished either unless it runs down from upper valve train on those lifters allowing it. The best and easiest way is to buy several gallons of oil, fill it till it comes out the breather you removed, drain it, put 5 qts back in and go. Crazy, but beats wrecking cam.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Restart a 403 [message #324610 is a reply to message #324606] |
Wed, 04 October 2017 13:18 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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JohnL455 wrote on Wed, 04 October 2017 11:40None of this addresses the cam lobes and lifter faces. Cranking slowly is the worst thing as no oil gets slung from the crank up to those surfaces and you are dry metal to metal. Using a drill on oil pump does not get that accomplished either unless it runs down from upper valve train on those lifters allowing it. The best and easiest way is to buy several gallons of oil, fill it till it comes out the breather you removed, drain it, put 5 qts back in and go. Crazy, but beats wrecking cam.
John,
While your fear is not unfounded, it is a very well thought. As it happens, a lot of the lubrication of the cam lobes (for a Detroit V engine) comes from oil running down the cam followers (lifters/lash adjusters. The cam followers are always on a primary oil feed line. As it happens, in Olds engines it has to go to the front of the crankcase and come back. That is not a lot different than many others. This is why I always required that lube oil pressure on an new (I mean really new, like the prototypes of a new family) be maintained for at least two full minutes at pressure before the engine was cranked. Trust me, the follower fit in the crankcase is not so good that it won't droll oil down to the cam, but it does take a while to get there.
You can do this with the oil pump, but we usually used a primer which is nothing but an air over oil can and fittings to couple to the engine lube oil gallery. We would put oil pressure on the engine for that two minutes and then always pull the engine through 2 (I really mean 2 - 720°) before anything else was done.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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