Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] rookie errors.
| [GMCnet] rookie errors. [message #323941] |
Sun, 17 September 2017 00:28  |
johnd01
Messages: 354
Registered: July 2017
Location: Sacrameot
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What are the rookie errors that we make?
Like driving off with the jacks down, wait we do not have jacks but you get
the idea.
What is the downside of leaving the house water pump on?
Does anyone have horror stories of leaving the welcome step down?
What other things should I add to my checklists?
--
*John Phillips*
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Johnd01
John Phillips
Avion A2600 TZE064V101164
Rancho Cordova, CA (Sacramento)
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| Re: [GMCnet] rookie errors. [message #323944 is a reply to message #323941] |
Sun, 17 September 2017 06:25  |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1500
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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Pulling away with the electrical cord still plugged in.
On Sat, Sep 16, 2017 at 11:28 PM, John Phillips
wrote:
> What are the rookie errors that we make?
> Like driving off with the jacks down, wait we do not have jacks but you get
> the idea.
> What is the downside of leaving the house water pump on?
> Does anyone have horror stories of leaving the welcome step down?
> What other things should I add to my checklists?
>
> --
>
> *John Phillips*
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: [GMCnet] rookie errors. [message #323950 is a reply to message #323941] |
Sun, 17 September 2017 11:57 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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johnd01 wrote on Sun, 17 September 2017 01:28What are the rookie errors that we make?
Like driving off with the jacks down, wait we do not have jacks but you get
the idea.
What is the downside of leaving the house water pump on?
Does anyone have horror stories of leaving the welcome step down?
What other things should I add to my checklists?
--
*John Phillips*
John,
If you ever took training to be a aircraft pilot, you would have been introduced to the "Walk Around".
This is a simple thing, but don't ever skip it. If you stop for fuel, try to include a walk around the coach before getting back on the road. I walk by each opening and think about what is in that opening and when it was last checked. The list is too long to go into between things here at GMCMI - Elkhart, but I could maybe later.
A question I want to answer now is:
"What is the downside of leaving the house water pump on?"
That actually has a simple answer, if the road vibration opens a tap, you can pump all your fresh water overboard before you know what has happened. That might not be critical, but it also could be.
Also be sure that the reefer is somehow locked.
Matt - back to the fleamarket
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] rookie errors. [message #323957 is a reply to message #323941] |
Sun, 17 September 2017 18:32 |
cbryan
Messages: 451
Registered: May 2012
Location: Ennis, Texas
Karma: 3
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How do I make rookie mistakes, let me count the ways...
Depending on the fuel gauges and their apparent showing gas when I ran out in the middle of the Mojave desert.
And doing it again near Lubbock, Texas on the maiden voyage.
Filling up to the top on the same trip and seeing gas cascade down from the tanks and Onan feed at a station in California.
I had the choice of waiting for the EPA to show up or bug out and chance a fire.
Not doing Matt Colie's walkaround and losing the cover of the refrigerator outside.
Working on the air conditioning while there was a brake line getting ready to go in Montgomery, Texas. Discovering I never did have much front brake, the big intermediate Leigh Harrison disc brake was doing all the work before the line gave way.
Brakes first.
Carey
Carey from Ennis, Texas
78 Royale, 500 Cadillac, Rance Baxter EFI.
[Updated on: Sun, 17 September 2017 22:49] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] rookie errors. [message #323962 is a reply to message #323958] |
Sun, 17 September 2017 19:42 |
johnd01
Messages: 354
Registered: July 2017
Location: Sacrameot
Karma: -1
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How would having 2 fuel gages reading the existing sensors work? From what
I have read there is a lot of confusion about reading the gages and
guessing how much fuel is left. Also, there seems to be a lot of unusable
fuel when going uphill. We may not run out of fuel as often if we only had
the main tank hand had to fuel ever 200 miles.
On Sun, Sep 17, 2017 at 4:41 PM, Brian Krikorian wrote:
> cbryan wrote on Sun, 17 September 2017 16:32
>> Depending on the fuel gauges and their apparent showing gas when I ran
> out in the middle of the Mojave desert.
>> And doing it again near Lubbock, Texas on the maiden voyage.
>
>
> Unfortunately this has been both a rookie and an "I should know better"
> mistake for me as well. I need to stop relying completely on my gauges and
> go by miles driven
> --
> Brian K
> 1977 Eleganza II, TZE167V100261
> Bellevue, WA
> Rebuilt 455, New brake system, a lot of Original Equipment ready to fall
> apart (discovering more as I go along....)
>
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--
*John Phillips*
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Johnd01
John Phillips
Avion A2600 TZE064V101164
Rancho Cordova, CA (Sacramento)
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| Re: [GMCnet] rookie errors. [message #323964 is a reply to message #323941] |
Sun, 17 September 2017 21:16 |
cbryan
Messages: 451
Registered: May 2012
Location: Ennis, Texas
Karma: 3
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Quote:How would having 2 fuel gages reading the existing sensors work? From what
I have read there is a lot of confusion about reading the gages and
guessing how much fuel is left. Also, there seems to be a lot of unusable
fuel when going uphill. We may not run out of fuel as often if we only had
the main tank hand had to fuel ever 200 miles.
OK, as I understand the workings of the fuel system, over the years, the tank gets toward empty and the tank being relieved of the fuel weight, bends the fuel pickup up off the floor of the tanks. Add to that any pressure put on the tanks from running over debris, and my favorite possible cause, our own pushing on the bottom of the tanks to reinstall them. The tanks also are shallow like a stack of two waffles...if you get my drift, so the sloshing of fuel means less fuel is available at all times. Add this to the expectation that we think that if we run out of one tank, we can, like in an airplane, switch to the other tank and have a hundred miles or so to go. And, in my case, add a custom instrument panel with a poor ground as I bought it, and any time I wanted more fuel indicated, I just turned on the headlights.....
You know the tanks are cross connected at the inlet pipe, so that both tanks' gasoline are used until the tanks are at about 1/8 tank, and thus you theoretically have 1/8 tank left for the other tank that is not selected. Well, no, often the selector valve has failed and unknown to you the valve is drawing from both tanks, so when one runs out, that's it and you are out of gas. Or the selector valve doesn't operate to begin with, and you are limited to the operational tank and the surplus gas in the other tank, and then you are out completely. Or, as in my case, the selector valve was bypassed and I got some more miles out of the coach by taking some long nose vise grips and clamping one hose shut, so that gas could be drawn from the unempty tank. It involved guessing which tank was empty.
A help is to use two pumps, either in tank, or like Johnny Bridges, outside the tanks, one for each tank, selected by the selector switch on the dash panel. This helps in getting some more gas out of the tanks and having a redundant fuel pump situation. The other solution might be to put a flexible pickup in the tank so it rides up and down with flexure of the tank. (could be dangerous, wear on the bottom of the tank.) Get the grounds sure on the instrument panel, Ken Burton has a couple of posts on how to to that.
Or, just fill up every 200 miles. There's more technology available to help take care of this problem. Climbing a mountain or going down a mountain or hill with turns to the left means fuel sloshes toward the outside of the tank and there doesn't seem to be a reservoir inside the tank with a swinging door to keep fuel near the pickup, and this, too can cause fuel starvation at a dangerous time, just when you need power, power brakes, and power steering all at the same time, and by the way, the emergency or parking brake might or probably won't hold you on a slope when you break down. This means a solution becomes a matter of safety. Ken Henderson pumps fuel at low pressure from each tank into an external reservoir from which he pumps at high pressure for his fuel injected setup. He has never reported a fuel starvation issue, and he has reworked his fuel sending units to actually show all the "Delta fuel level" from full to empty, for the first time, he reports he now knows how much fuel he has in each tank. It might be the only GMC coach that is so accurate.
All this to say is that two fuel gauges are useless to solve this problem. JWIT.
Carey
Carey from Ennis, Texas
78 Royale, 500 Cadillac, Rance Baxter EFI.
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| Re: [GMCnet] rookie errors. [message #323968 is a reply to message #323962] |
Sun, 17 September 2017 21:34 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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johnd01 wrote on Sun, 17 September 2017 20:42How would having 2 fuel gages reading the existing sensors work? From what I have read there is a lot of confusion about reading the gages and guessing how much fuel is left. Also, there seems to be a lot of unusable fuel when going uphill. We may not run out of fuel as often if we only had the main tank hand had to fuel ever 200 miles.
--
*John Phillips*
John,
There is no reason that you could not do that, but there is little reason to do so. If your level instruments are reporting reliably, then all that matters is the fuel you have available now.
I have always liked the line in the FAA student pilot book says that the only time you should believe a fuel level gauge is when it says "Empty". When you get to know your coach, you will know what it does. Until then, plan fuel stops close together and keep track (you need it written). This is how I have managed to do 50+ gallon fills. I do not do this as a matter of course, but it is nice to know that it can be done.
To do this, you would not even have to pull a new lead, but you would have to mount two new instruments. I can think of better uses for my time and money.
Matt - the end of a long day at a Gmcmi convention.
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] rookie errors. [message #323969 is a reply to message #323941] |
Sun, 17 September 2017 22:19 |
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Brian K
Messages: 75
Registered: May 2017
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
Karma: 0
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Well, I think my problem is mostly mechanical and sender/tank related. I posted something about this a couple weeks ago (so it's already been "vetted"), but basically I'm running empty with about 10 to 12 gallons left, and one tank is often showing 1/4-1/2 full, while the other is empty. This will have to be a future project: Either pull the tanks and figure it out, or go the two fuel pump route. Until then, I just figure I'm running on about 30 to 35 gallons, and make sure I fill up by 200 miles or 1/4 tank. It's the "I can get that 10 extra miles to the next exit" mentality that kills me every time!!!
Brian K
1977 Eleganza II, TZE167V100261
Sherman Oaks, CA
Rebuilt 455, New brake system, a lot of Original Equipment ready to fall apart (discovering more as I go along....)
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| Re: [GMCnet] rookie errors. [message #323970 is a reply to message #323969] |
Sun, 17 September 2017 23:11 |
Richard Denney
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 9
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I have the advantage that I was able to test my new senders and gauge at
the extremes, so I already know how they read. Before dropping my tanks,
they were no more than 10% full, and I didn't try to empty them all the
way. I was just careful not to let the fill opening point down. Both
senders registered at "E"--no movement above where they were when the wires
were connected (zero ohms = empty).
Then, I poured five gallons in, nearly all of which would go to the rear
(main) tank. So, it probably 7 or 8 gallons in it, and it registered about
a quarter tank, which is pretty close (each of my Cinnabar tanks holds 27
gallons). I poured in another 10 or 11 gallons, which mostly went to the
rear tank. That tank showed about half full, and the front tank showed very
close to empty. I figure with the slope of the coach at the time, it would
have taken over half a tank to flow back from the rear tank to the front.
On a test drive, the readings were everywhere, and that's the problem with
tanks that are only six inches tall. The senders on my tanks are forward of
center, so on braking they read higher than on acceleration. They will vary
a lot when in turns. Going downhill might cause fuel to flow from the rear
tank to the front, and going uphill the reverse. So, I only read the gauges
when the coach is not undergoing any lateral accelerations--either stopped
on at stable cruising speed on a flat highway. I can check each tank by
switching the dash tank switch momentarily.
When I filled the tanks, it took a bit for the second tank to read full
past its damping, and I thought at first the rear gauge was reading low.
But when I looked again (which was the next day, after having driven it
only a mile back to the shop), both were reading right on "F". I drove home
50 miles, which should have used about six gallons (a quarter of the main
tank). The gauge did not recede by nearly that much, and I suspect the
float doesn't make it to the top of the tank by the time it tops out.
It takes some real effort to learn how to get any useful information from
the fuel gauge, even when everything is tip-top. What I had before was so
unhelpful that I didn't depend on it for anything, but that means a lot of
fillups where only 20 gallons went in.
As to common rookie mistakes (the subject of this thread), this one is
related to the above fuel discussion: Don't drive a "new" coach without
replacing everything rubber (hoses--fuel and brake, tires, belts), unless
inspection of records reveals the rubber to be reasonably fresh. Rotted
fuel hoses are dangerous. Dropping the tanks is unpleasant, but it's part
of the gig. Leaking fuel is only slightly less bad than crappy brakes when
it comes to unhappy outcomes. Rotted tires come in a close third in terms
of risk. And rotted belts will allow you to enjoy part of your vacation
parked in some noisy, steeply sloping spot while you learn how to change
them. I've had to do that twice because of not paying attention to my belts.
Priorities for new owners:
1. Safety
2. Reliability
3. Convenience and usability.
4. Aesthetics.
I've done a lot of 1, a lot of 2, a good amount of 3, and not nearly enough
4. The temptation is to spend a lot of time on the paint and the house
stuff (4 and 3), and only work on 1 and 2 as things break.
Rick "who has had his tanks down three times during his ownership, and
hopefully not again for a looong time" Denney
On Sun, Sep 17, 2017 at 11:19 PM, Brian Krikorian wrote:
> Well, I think my problem is mostly mechanical and sender/tank related. I
> posted something about this a couple weeks ago (so it's already been
> "vetted"), but basically I'm running empty with about 10 to 12 gallons
> left, and one tank is often showing 1/4-1/2 full, while the other is empty.
> This will have to be a future project: Either pull the tanks and figure
> it out, or go the two fuel pump route. Until then, I just figure I'm
> running
> on about 30 to 35 gallons, and make sure I fill up by 200 miles or 1/4
> tank. It's the "I can get that 10 extra miles to the next exit" mentality
> that
> kills me every time!!!
> --
> Brian K
> 1977 Eleganza II, TZE167V100261
> Bellevue, WA
> Rebuilt 455, New brake system, a lot of Original Equipment ready to fall
> apart (discovering more as I go along....)
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
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| Re: [GMCnet] rookie errors. [message #323980 is a reply to message #323941] |
Mon, 18 September 2017 11:29 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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I never forget a mistake. I can make the same one 5 - 6 times in a row.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] rookie errors. [message #324009 is a reply to message #324006] |
Mon, 18 September 2017 22:14 |
Richard Denney
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 9
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Which brings to mind al ultimate rookie mistake with GMC's--putting
gasoline in the freshwater tank, or letting a gas station attendant do so.
Rick "it's happened" Denney
On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 10:21 PM Nelson Wright wrote:
>
>
> And then there was the Newby that thought the OIL fill was the reservoir
> for the radiator. Needless to say that did not work out well.
>
>> On Sep 18, 2017, at 12:29 PM, Johnny Bridges via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> I never forget a mistake. I can make the same one 5 - 6 times in a row.
>>
>> --johnny
>> --
>> 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
>> Braselton, Ga.
>> "I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to
> me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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--
Rick Denney
73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
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| Re: [GMCnet] rookie errors. [message #324017 is a reply to message #323941] |
Tue, 19 September 2017 07:53 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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My freshwater tank locks. I suspect that's why GM added a lock to it.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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