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[GMCnet] no spark on HEI [message #323702] Sun, 10 September 2017 13:19 Go to next message
Gary Worobec is currently offline  Gary Worobec   United States
Messages: 867
Registered: May 2005
Karma: -1
Senior Member
Hi folks,
Tried to fire up the coach this morning and lots of gas, no spark. Admittedly I have not run it for a couple of months now. 455 with Howell EFI/EBL and a Paterson HEI distributor. All the fuses are good in the Howell and no obvious wiring damage from rodents. I’m leaning towards the ignition module, however no spare. I’m not on the road so no problems there. I’m not sure if Dick Paterson’s modules are special or just stock GM parts. If not I’ll get one from NAPA tomorrow. I did send him an email. Does anyone know if you can run a diagnostic off of the EBL and the laptop to narrow the issue down. In near 12 years this is the first time the motor has not fired up with the EFI/HEI setup. Usually a couple of seconds on the starter and away it goes.

thanks for any insights.



Gary Worobec
73 Glacier 455



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Re: [GMCnet] no spark on HEI [message #323712 is a reply to message #323702] Sun, 10 September 2017 15:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
Senior Member
Gary Worobec wrote on Sun, 10 September 2017 14:19
Hi folks,
Tried to fire up the coach this morning and lots of gas, no spark. Admittedly I have not run it for a couple of months now. 455 with Howell EFI/EBL and a Paterson HEI distributor. All the fuses are good in the Howell and no obvious wiring damage from rodents. I'm leaning towards the ignition module, however no spare. I'm not on the road so no problems there. I'm not sure if Dick Paterson's modules are special or just stock GM parts. If not I'll get one from NAPA tomorrow. I did send him an email. Does anyone know if you can run a diagnostic off of the EBL and the laptop to narrow the issue down. In near 12 years this is the first time the motor has not fired up with the EFI/HEI setup. Usually a couple of seconds on the starter and away it goes.

thanks for any insights.

Gary Worobec
73 Glacier 455

Gary,

The thing I know that I know only from listening to Dick is that he only buys the Delco part and still has to make sure it is not CCV in a look-alike box.

Matt


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Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: [GMCnet] no spark on HEI [message #323717 is a reply to message #323702] Sun, 10 September 2017 16:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Carl S. is currently offline  Carl S.   United States
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
Senior Member

Gary Worobec wrote on Sun, 10 September 2017 11:19
Hi folks,
Tried to fire up the coach this morning and lots of gas, no spark. Admittedly I have not run it for a couple of months now. 455 with Howell EFI/EBL and a Paterson HEI distributor. All the fuses are good in the Howell and no obvious wiring damage from rodents. I'm leaning towards the ignition module, however no spare. I'm not on the road so no problems there. I'm not sure if Dick Paterson's modules are special or just stock GM parts. If not I'll get one from NAPA tomorrow. I did send him an email. Does anyone know if you can run a diagnostic off of the EBL and the laptop to narrow the issue down. In near 12 years this is the first time the motor has not fired up with the EFI/HEI setup. Usually a couple of seconds on the starter and away it goes.

thanks for any insights.



Gary Worobec
73 Glacier 455



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I had a Dick Paterson module go out in my coach. It was about a year old. I replaced it along the road with an old one from the old distributor, and later with one from O'Reilly's. No problem with the one from O'Reilley's (I think it was a BWD brand). The MSD system I put on it a year or so later eliminated the HEI module.


Carl Stouffer '75 ex Palm Beach Tucson, AZ. Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
Re: [GMCnet] no spark on HEI [message #323718 is a reply to message #323702] Sun, 10 September 2017 17:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rvanwin is currently offline  rvanwin   United States
Messages: 325
Registered: April 2007
Location: Battlefield, MO
Karma: 6
Senior Member
Gary Worobec wrote on Sun, 10 September 2017 13:19
Hi folks,
Tried to fire up the coach this morning and lots of gas, no spark. Admittedly I have not run it for a couple of months now. 455 with Howell EFI/EBL and a Paterson HEI distributor. All the fuses are good in the Howell and no obvious wiring damage from rodents. I'm leaning towards the ignition module, however no spare. I'm not on the road so no problems there. I'm not sure if Dick Paterson's modules are special or just stock GM parts. If not I'll get one from NAPA tomorrow. I did send him an email. Does anyone know if you can run a diagnostic off of the EBL and the laptop to narrow the issue down. In near 12 years this is the first time the motor has not fired up with the EFI/HEI setup. Usually a couple of seconds on the starter and away it goes.


Gary,

The module would be the first thing to try. Any module from the parts store should work OK. I have seen some aftermarket modules (other than AC Delco) not work properly for limp home but would work under normal conditions. Modules that DickP uses are not immune from having problems. Keeping a spare module is necessary in my opinion. If the module doesn't resolve the issue, then possibly the coil.


Randy & Margie
'77 Eleganza II '403'
Battlefield, MO
Re: [GMCnet] no spark on HEI [message #323721 is a reply to message #323718] Sun, 10 September 2017 17:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary Worobec is currently offline  Gary Worobec   United States
Messages: 867
Registered: May 2005
Karma: -1
Senior Member
Thanks Randy and guys, I’ll post when i find the issue.

GW
> On Sep 10, 2017, at 3:09 PM, Randy Van Winkle wrote:
>
> Gary Worobec wrote on Sun, 10 September 2017 13:19
>> Hi folks,
>> Tried to fire up the coach this morning and lots of gas, no spark. Admittedly I have not run it for a couple of months now. 455 with Howell
>> EFI/EBL and a Paterson HEI distributor. All the fuses are good in the Howell and no obvious wiring damage from rodents. I'm leaning towards the
>> ignition module, however no spare. I'm not on the road so no problems there. I'm not sure if Dick Paterson's modules are special or just stock GM
>> parts. If not I'll get one from NAPA tomorrow. I did send him an email. Does anyone know if you can run a diagnostic off of the EBL and the laptop
>> to narrow the issue down. In near 12 years this is the first time the motor has not fired up with the EFI/HEI setup. Usually a couple of seconds on
>> the starter and away it goes.
>
> Gary,
>
> The module would be the first thing to try. Any module from the parts store should work OK. I have seen some aftermarket modules (other than AC
> Delco) not work properly for limp home but would work under normal conditions. Modules that DickP uses are not immune from having problems. Keeping a
> spare module is necessary in my opinion. If the module doesn't resolve the issue, then possibly the coil.
>
> --
> Randy & Margie
> '77 Eleganza II '403'
> Battlefield, MO
>
> _______________________________________________
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Gary Worobec
garytwmw@gmail.com
(o) 951-763-0518
(cell) 773-230-6226




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Re: [GMCnet] no spark on HEI [message #323722 is a reply to message #323702] Sun, 10 September 2017 17:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Henderson is currently offline  Ken Henderson   United States
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
Senior Member
Gary,

What I haven't heard is what type of Patterson distributor you have. If
it's controlled by the EFI/EBL, then it's certainly one with a 7-pin OEM
type HEI. If it's NOT controlled by the EFI's ECM, then it may be the
original '73 points-type upgraded by Dick P. with a Pertronix 1181 kit.
Or, it may be a non-computer-controlled HEI with a 5-pin module. There may
even be other configurations with which I'm not familiar.

You've got to determine which of those you have before searching for a test
replacement.

Ken H.


On Sun, Sep 10, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Gary Worobec wrote:

> Hi folks,
> Tried to fire up the coach this morning and lots of gas, no spark.
> Admittedly I have not run it for a couple of months now. 455 with Howell
> EFI/EBL and a Paterson HEI distributor. All the fuses are good in the
> Howell and no obvious wiring damage from rodents. I’m leaning towards the
> ignition module, however no spare. I’m not on the road so no problems
> there. I’m not sure if Dick Paterson’s modules are special or just stock GM
> parts. If not I’ll get one from NAPA tomorrow. I did send him an email.
> Does anyone know if you can run a diagnostic off of the EBL and the laptop
> to narrow the issue down. In near 12 years this is the first time the motor
> has not fired up with the EFI/HEI setup. Usually a couple of seconds on the
> starter and away it goes.
>
> thanks for any insights.
>
>
>
> Gary Worobec
> 73 Glacier 455
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
Re: [GMCnet] no spark on HEI [message #323726 is a reply to message #323722] Sun, 10 September 2017 18:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary Worobec is currently offline  Gary Worobec   United States
Messages: 867
Registered: May 2005
Karma: -1
Senior Member
Ken, It's the seven pin module. The distributor is controlled by the EBL. I got rid of the Paterson Pertronics when I installed the Howell Efi

Thanks,
Gary Worobec

> On Sep 10, 2017, at 3:35 PM, Ken Henderson wrote:
>
> Gary,
>
> What I haven't heard is what type of Patterson distributor you have. If
> it's controlled by the EFI/EBL, then it's certainly one with a 7-pin OEM
> type HEI. If it's NOT controlled by the EFI's ECM, then it may be the
> original '73 points-type upgraded by Dick P. with a Pertronix 1181 kit.
> Or, it may be a non-computer-controlled HEI with a 5-pin module. There may
> even be other configurations with which I'm not familiar.
>
> You've got to determine which of those you have before searching for a test
> replacement.
>
> Ken H.
>
>
>> On Sun, Sep 10, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Gary Worobec wrote:
>>
>> Hi folks,
>> Tried to fire up the coach this morning and lots of gas, no spark.
>> Admittedly I have not run it for a couple of months now. 455 with Howell
>> EFI/EBL and a Paterson HEI distributor. All the fuses are good in the
>> Howell and no obvious wiring damage from rodents. I’m leaning towards the
>> ignition module, however no spare. I’m not on the road so no problems
>> there. I’m not sure if Dick Paterson’s modules are special or just stock GM
>> parts. If not I’ll get one from NAPA tomorrow. I did send him an email.
>> Does anyone know if you can run a diagnostic off of the EBL and the laptop
>> to narrow the issue down. In near 12 years this is the first time the motor
>> has not fired up with the EFI/HEI setup. Usually a couple of seconds on the
>> starter and away it goes.
>>
>> thanks for any insights.
>>
>>
>>
>> Gary Worobec
>> 73 Glacier 455
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> _______________________________________________
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> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Re: [GMCnet] no spark on HEI [message #323727 is a reply to message #323726] Sun, 10 September 2017 18:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Henderson is currently offline  Ken Henderson   United States
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
Senior Member
Good. You know what you're working with. I just hadn't understood that.

Ken H.

On Sun, Sep 10, 2017 at 7:15 PM, Gary EarthLink wrote:

> Ken, It's the seven pin module. The distributor is controlled by the EBL.
> I got rid of the Paterson Pertronics when I installed the Howell Efi
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
Re: [GMCnet] no spark on HEI [message #323728 is a reply to message #323702] Sun, 10 September 2017 18:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mrgmc3 is currently offline  mrgmc3   United States
Messages: 210
Registered: September 2013
Location: W Washington
Karma: 2
Senior Member
An item on the HEI distributor that will leave you with no spark is the pickup coil. It is the circular 8 pointed "ring" that slips over the distributor shaft and resides beneath the centrifugal advance weights and screws to the advance plate. It's job is to time each cylinder firing by sending a pulse as the distributor shaft passes each "point" on the coil. It has two bare wires that connect it to the module and the wires flex as the advance plate moves back and forth. The wires will ultimately fatigue and break, providing no timing signal and no spark.
You can reach the wires with the cap off. You can tug lightly with 2 fingers. If one is disconected that is your problem. If one comes loose in your hand then you found it before it was going to break and strand you. You must remove the distributor to change the pickup coil. You'll need to use a punch to push out the roll pin that holds the distributor gear to the shaft. Lift the shaft out and swap out the coil.
I carry a spare ignition module, ignition coil and pickup coil in my GMC at all times.


Chris Geils - Twin Cities / W Wa 1978 26' Kingsley w/ very few mods; PD9040, aux trans cooler, one repaint in stock colors, R134a, Al rad, Alcoas, 54k mi
Re: [GMCnet] no spark on HEI [message #323736 is a reply to message #323727] Sun, 10 September 2017 20:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
powerjon is currently offline  powerjon   United States
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
Senior Member
I use a 7-pin module in our Accel Gen 6 MPFI and I have had a failure about 3 years ago, and I also went with a remote coil setup. The remote coil article will be in the next GMCMI newsletter.

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/general-pictures/p63684-7-pin-modules.html

JR Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMC Eastern States Charter Member
GMCGL Tech Editor
GMCMI
78 GMC Buskirk 30’ Stretch
1975 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan


> On Sep 10, 2017, at 7:40 PM, Ken Henderson wrote:
>
> Good. You know what you're working with. I just hadn't understood that.
>
> Ken H.
>
> On Sun, Sep 10, 2017 at 7:15 PM, Gary EarthLink wrote:
>
>> Ken, It's the seven pin module. The distributor is controlled by the EBL.
>> I got rid of the Paterson Pertronics when I installed the Howell Efi
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org


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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
Re: [GMCnet] no spark on HEI [message #323739 is a reply to message #323736] Sun, 10 September 2017 21:11 Go to previous message
Gary Worobec is currently offline  Gary Worobec   United States
Messages: 867
Registered: May 2005
Karma: -1
Senior Member
Dick’s response. What a guy!! Sunday night even. i’ll report back.

> Gary any module will prove it out ---if you want a specific one ask for a 1975-6-7
> chev 350 for a Camaro -corvette or HD police package.
>
> First-----Look carefully at the 3 wire black plug where the harness plugs into the cap---be sure there are is no brass visible outside the bottom of the plug----verify the 12 volts at the red BATT wire connection.
> Let me know your 'finding' ------------regards dick





> On Sep 10, 2017, at 6:06 PM, John Wright wrote:
>
> I use a 7-pin module in our Accel Gen 6 MPFI and I have had a failure about 3 years ago, and I also went with a remote coil setup. The remote coil article will be in the next GMCMI newsletter.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/general-pictures/p63684-7-pin-modules.html
>
> JR Wright
> GMC Great Laker MHC
> GMC Eastern States Charter Member
> GMCGL Tech Editor
> GMCMI
> 78 GMC Buskirk 30’ Stretch
> 1975 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
> Michigan
>
>
>> On Sep 10, 2017, at 7:40 PM, Ken Henderson wrote:
>>
>> Good. You know what you're working with. I just hadn't understood that.
>>
>> Ken H.
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 10, 2017 at 7:15 PM, Gary EarthLink wrote:
>>
>>> Ken, It's the seven pin module. The distributor is controlled by the EBL.
>>> I got rid of the Paterson Pertronics when I installed the Howell Efi
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Gary Worobec
garytwmw@gmail.com
(o) 951-763-0518
(cell) 773-230-6226



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