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Firestone bag replacement [message #323197] Sat, 02 September 2017 16:42 Go to next message
JohnL455 is currently offline  JohnL455   United States
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Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
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I broke loose the dumb end with air in bag but did the smart end with a socket once air line and brass parts were removed. Problem is the nut stayed put and the entire " hollow bolt" came out of old bag. I have been holding the bag end of bolt with an internal EZ out and breaker bar and been hitting the nut with air impact gun and 6 point socket. Used much penetrant, tryed the freeze it stuff and propane torch on nut. Nothing. I see that the smart end nut is thinner than the dumb end nut. Should I Sawzall through the hollow bolt and try to get a new nut? More heat? Don't want to ruin that hollow bolt fitting or are those available?

John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
Re: Firestone bag replacement [message #323200 is a reply to message #323197] Sat, 02 September 2017 18:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lqqkatjon is currently offline  lqqkatjon   United States
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Location: St. Cloud, MN
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I am not quite picturing what exactly you are up against.

Unfortunatly when i went to new airbag system, i ended up sawzalling the air fitting end off. I still have the bag, might be good for someone that has a bad bag with a good end.

Kicked my butt for about an hour or more when caved and sawed it.

The lesson I took away, was pull off the air line, then install a schrader valve and inflate the airbag before removing the nut. That kept the bag from spinning when i went to remove the 2nd bag on the other side. Once that airbag spun, i think i was screwed on getting that nut off.


Jon Roche 75 palm beach EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now. St. Cloud, MN http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/

[Updated on: Sat, 02 September 2017 18:14]

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Re: [GMCnet] Firestone bag replacement [message #323202 is a reply to message #323200] Sat, 02 September 2017 18:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sgltrac is currently offline  sgltrac   United States
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Registered: April 2011
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Senior Member
You may be able to hold the big threaded end of the fill port with a pipe
wrench and work the pag nut with a socket. That fails then sawzall the full
pipe.

Sully
77 eleganza 2
Bellevue

On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 4:18 PM Jon Roche wrote:

> I am not quite picturing what exactly you are up against.
>
> Unfortunatly when i went to new airbag system, i ended up sawzalling the
> air fitting end off. I still have the bag, might be good for someone that
> has a bad bag with a good end.
>
> Kicked my butt for about an hour or more when caved and sawed it.
>
> The lesson I took away, was pull off the air line, then install a
> schrader valve and inflate the airbag before removing the nut. That kept
> the bag
> from spinning on the opposite side. Once that airbag spun, i think i
> was screwed on getting that nut off.
> --
> Jon Roche
> 75 palm beach
> St. Cloud, MN
> http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Sully 77 Royale basket case. Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list) Seattle, Wa.
Re: [GMCnet] Firestone bag replacement [message #323203 is a reply to message #323202] Sat, 02 September 2017 18:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sgltrac is currently offline  sgltrac   United States
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
Senior Member
Fill pipe

On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 4:22 PM Todd Sullivan wrote:

> You may be able to hold the big threaded end of the fill port with a pipe
> wrench and work the pag nut with a socket. That fails then sawzall the full
> pipe.
>
> Sully
> 77 eleganza 2
> Bellevue
>
> On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 4:18 PM Jon Roche wrote:
>
>> I am not quite picturing what exactly you are up against.
>>
>> Unfortunatly when i went to new airbag system, i ended up sawzalling the
>> air fitting end off. I still have the bag, might be good for someone that
>> has a bad bag with a good end.
>>
>> Kicked my butt for about an hour or more when caved and sawed it.
>>
>> The lesson I took away, was pull off the air line, then install a
>> schrader valve and inflate the airbag before removing the nut. That kept
>> the bag
>> from spinning on the opposite side. Once that airbag spun, i think i
>> was screwed on getting that nut off.
>> --
>> Jon Roche
>> 75 palm beach
>> St. Cloud, MN
>> http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
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Sully 77 Royale basket case. Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list) Seattle, Wa.
Re: [GMCnet] Firestone bag replacement [message #323204 is a reply to message #323203] Sat, 02 September 2017 18:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sgltrac is currently offline  sgltrac   United States
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
Senior Member
Depending upon how deep the machining is in the bogey arm where the nut
seats on the fill side it may be difficult to gain purchase with a box
wrench. I have run into this a few times. If that is the case then the
Schrader valve straight into the fill port would be a good solution. Both
sides can then be manipulated with air load preventing the "wrong" part
from turning and a socket can be used on each end. Good idea Jon.

Sully
77 eleganza 2
Bellevue

On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 4:22 PM Todd Sullivan wrote:

> Fill pipe
>
> On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 4:22 PM Todd Sullivan wrote:
>
>> You may be able to hold the big threaded end of the fill port with a pipe
>> wrench and work the pag nut with a socket. That fails then sawzall the full
>> pipe.
>>
>> Sully
>> 77 eleganza 2
>> Bellevue
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 4:18 PM Jon Roche wrote:
>>
>>> I am not quite picturing what exactly you are up against.
>>>
>>> Unfortunatly when i went to new airbag system, i ended up sawzalling
>>> the air fitting end off. I still have the bag, might be good for someone
>>> that
>>> has a bad bag with a good end.
>>>
>>> Kicked my butt for about an hour or more when caved and sawed it.
>>>
>>> The lesson I took away, was pull off the air line, then install a
>>> schrader valve and inflate the airbag before removing the nut. That kept
>>> the bag
>>> from spinning on the opposite side. Once that airbag spun, i think i
>>> was screwed on getting that nut off.
>>> --
>>> Jon Roche
>>> 75 palm beach
>>> St. Cloud, MN
>>> http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>>
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Sully 77 Royale basket case. Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list) Seattle, Wa.
Re: Firestone bag replacement [message #323222 is a reply to message #323197] Sat, 02 September 2017 21:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JohnL455 is currently offline  JohnL455   United States
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Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
Senior Member
Don't want to pipe wrench the threads. I'm holding it ok with the Hanson EZ out internally. The 1/2" impact won't loosen the nut.

John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
Re: [GMCnet] Firestone bag replacement [message #323224 is a reply to message #323222] Sat, 02 September 2017 22:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
emerystora is currently offline  emerystora   United States
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Registered: January 2004
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Senior Member
Try heating the nut with a propane torch. That should expand it enough to allow it to be turned off.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO

> On Sep 2, 2017, at 8:57 PM, John R. Lebetski wrote:
>
> Don't want to pipe wrench the threads. I'm holding it ok with the Hanson EZ out internally. The 1/2" impact won't loosen the nut.
> --
> John Lebetski
> Woodstock, IL
> 77 Eleganza II
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

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Re: [GMCnet] Firestone bag replacement [message #323235 is a reply to message #323222] Sat, 02 September 2017 22:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kosier is currently offline  Kosier   United States
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Registered: February 2008
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Senior Member
John,

If all else fails, split the nut. You can easily get another nut, but that
spud is rare.

Gary Kosier
77PB w/500Cad
Newark, Ohio

--------------------------------------------------
From: "John R. Lebetski"
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2017 10:57 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Firestone bag replacement

> Don't want to pipe wrench the threads. I'm holding it ok with the Hanson
> EZ out internally. The 1/2" impact won't loosen the nut.
> --
> John Lebetski
> Woodstock, IL
> 77 Eleganza II
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org


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Re: Firestone bag replacement [message #323238 is a reply to message #323197] Sun, 03 September 2017 01:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
Senior Member
KROIL Kroil. KROIL!

Soak the nut and threads with Kroil for one day. Multiple applications may be used. After one day, heat the nut with a propane torch. While hot, take the torch flame far away and shock the center with Kroil again until it cools down. Leave it soak for another day. Repeat the above 3 to 5 times and eventually it will spin off easily. I use a 3/8" drive impact wrench to spin the nut off. I test it each day after soaking the nut until cool.

If you do not have the time to wait, then more heat and cooling cycles in a day will speed up the process. A nut splitter will speed up the process. Try to split in 2 places.

A flame wrench can also be used in an emergency but you of course will destroy the piece in the process.

I would chase the exposed threads with a die before starting to remove the nut. It can be a bear to get the nut all of the way off once the nut moves if the threads are dirty.

Finally when reinstalling the bag, go to Ace hardware and look in the stainless Jam nuts box. The largest jam nut in the box will fit that thread. Also get some stainless tooth washers. Reassemble the bag with stainless jam nuts, stainless tooth washers and anti-seize. You will never have problems getting them apart or back together again.



Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

[Updated on: Sun, 03 September 2017 01:22]

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Re: Firestone bag replacement [message #323246 is a reply to message #323197] Sun, 03 September 2017 08:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JohnL455 is currently offline  JohnL455   United States
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
Senior Member
I was thinking of reassembling w old air spring and a box end wrench captive installed before air line. With normal ride height will that hold the spud from spinning if I use an extension on the box wrench? Due to the arm casting I don't think a nut splitter will get in there. On the bright side, this is a good PM event in the barn compared to on side of road where a 30min job would not be possible and be very dangerous.

John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
Re: Firestone bag replacement [message #323250 is a reply to message #323197] Sun, 03 September 2017 10:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lqqkatjon is currently offline  lqqkatjon   United States
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
Senior Member
Not sure if this is helpful or not....


A good-not super spendy wrench for those nuts is a trailer ball wrench that is usually found at a few stores near the tow stuff.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000CQOIV4/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1504452394&sr=8-2&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=trailer+ball+wr ench&dpPl=1&dpID=31ZEKNNHRCL&ref=plSrch


The nuts on mine easily spun off 1/3 of the way and then seemed to lock hard, and that is where i struggled. Had sockets and that hitch ball wrench gave plenty of leverage, but could not keep bag from spinning.


Jon Roche 75 palm beach EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now. St. Cloud, MN http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
Re: Firestone bag replacement [message #323254 is a reply to message #323246] Sun, 03 September 2017 11:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
Senior Member
On the only one that I did with a splitter, I borrowed an air driven device with a set of jaws like bolt cutters. It had several sizes of jaws. The smallest set fit.

I always encourage everyone to loosen and anti-seize those nuts now with the bag under pressure. Soak them in Kroil, unscrew the air line, screw in a schrader valve, air it up, and use a deep well socket to loosen.

It is much easier to do now at home rather than on the side of the road later.


Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Re: Firestone bag replacement [message #323257 is a reply to message #323197] Sun, 03 September 2017 12:30 Go to previous message
JohnL455 is currently offline  JohnL455   United States
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
Senior Member
With the open end wrench captive to the air line and full weight of coach on the system it still spins in the bag and not the external nut. So put it back together until after the long weekend and I can see about getting that fill bolt and nut ftom JimK or Cinnabar. For now it's all funtional and not beached. The old springs look pretty good and they were put in by PO and Golby probably 12+ years ago so don't want to hammer mechanic the parts if not available. Again, happy to he in climate controlled barn where I can walk away when tired and not trying this with semi's whizzing by. I will use antisieze or Synpower on the big nuts in the end so it is truly a 30 min job if stuck on side of road in future.

John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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