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Re: [GMCnet] &@":'#^>#! Mice! [message #323354 is a reply to message #323124] Mon, 04 September 2017 21:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard Denney is currently offline  Richard Denney   United States
Messages: 554
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 2
Senior Member
I'm just about at the point of giving up on Elkhart. I spent Sunday and
today in bed with a severe cold, and tomorrow I have to travel to Georgia
to teach a class. Back on Friday. I have a music gig Saturday night, so
maybe only four hours to work on it on Saturday, and another four on Sunday
(plus the hour drive each way to where I'm doing the work). In that time, I
have to get the tanks back up, connect and bleed the brakes, install the
intermediate shaft that I hope will arrive by then, bolt the halfshafts
down, and do a complete ride-height and alignment. I'm not sure I can pull
it off.

It just seems like a list of things that never go wrong...went wrong...both
GMC-related things and life-related things.

Rick "who really needed a fully productive Labor Day weekend" Denney

On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 7:04 PM Richard Denney wrote:

> Now I know why my rear tank sender was reading nada. A little chewer had
> taken out a bit of the harness going to it.
>
> I thought it was a clean break and spliced the ends together, but no. When
> positioning the tank to raise it back up, I came up a coupla inches short.
>
> Blast!
>
> Now, I have to add an extension on the end of the wire--no way am I
> replacing the whole harness.
>
> Done for the night.
>
> Rick "who vacuumed up mouse nest out of both sender wells on the tanks"
> Denney
> --
> Rick Denney
> 73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
> Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
>
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Re: [GMCnet] &@":'#^>#! Mice! [message #323358 is a reply to message #323354] Mon, 04 September 2017 22:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Henderson is currently offline  Ken Henderson   United States
Messages: 7216
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 40
Senior Member
Rick,

I'm REALLY sorry to hear that. But I'm not optimistic about your getting
the shaft in time due to Manny's trip to Europe. I don't know their
schedule, but even if he ships it immediately when he gets home, delivery
time will probably not work in your favor. That being so, I don't think
you should over-stress on the other tasks. Wish I had a shaft to send you,
but all mine are incompatible.

Ken H.


On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 10:19 PM, Richard Denney wrote:

> I'm just about at the point of giving up on Elkhart. I spent Sunday and
> today in bed with a severe cold, and tomorrow I have to travel to Georgia
> to teach a class. Back on Friday. I have a music gig Saturday night, so
> maybe only four hours to work on it on Saturday, and another four on Sunday
> (plus the hour drive each way to where I'm doing the work). In that time, I
> have to get the tanks back up, connect and bleed the brakes, install the
> intermediate shaft that I hope will arrive by then, bolt the halfshafts
> down, and do a complete ride-height and alignment. I'm not sure I can pull
> it off.
>
> It just seems like a list of things that never go wrong...went wrong...both
> GMC-related things and life-related things.
>
> Rick "who really needed a fully productive Labor Day weekend" Denney
>
> On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 7:04 PM Richard Denney wrote:
>
>> Now I know why my rear tank sender was reading nada. A little chewer had
>> taken out a bit of the harness going to it.
>>
>> I thought it was a clean break and spliced the ends together, but no.
> When
>> positioning the tank to raise it back up, I came up a coupla inches
> short.
>>
>> Blast!
>>
>> Now, I have to add an extension on the end of the wire--no way am I
>> replacing the whole harness.
>>
>> Done for the night.
>>
>> Rick "who vacuumed up mouse nest out of both sender wells on the tanks"
>> Denney
>> --
>> Rick Denney
>> 73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
>> Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
Re: [GMCnet] &@":'#^>#! Mice! [message #323401 is a reply to message #323124] Tue, 05 September 2017 13:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GatsbysCruise is currently offline  GatsbysCruise   United States
Messages: 15
Registered: January 2017
Location: Waukegan, Illinois
Karma: 0
Junior Member
You can always make your own mouse trap

https://www.google.com/search?q=youtube+mouse+trap&ie=UTF-8&sa=Search&channel=fe&client=browser-ubuntu&hl=en

I am pretty sure you can make a "live catch" version if you don't want to kill the little pests.


GatsbysCruise. \ 74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \ Located in Waukegan \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYOUND IS FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-UBUNTU STUDIO

[Updated on: Tue, 05 September 2017 13:28]

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Re: [GMCnet] &@":'#^>#! Mice! [message #323405 is a reply to message #323124] Tue, 05 September 2017 14:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Johnny Bridges is currently offline  Johnny Bridges   United States
Messages: 6180
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: 30
Senior Member
Rick - do what I did for Bean Station this year. Drive the car, find an AirBnB and make the meet.

--johnny


76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. "I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased

[Updated on: Tue, 05 September 2017 14:27]

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Re: [GMCnet] &@":'#^>#! Mice! [message #323654 is a reply to message #323358] Sat, 09 September 2017 15:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard Denney is currently offline  Richard Denney   United States
Messages: 554
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 2
Senior Member
Well, maybe we'll be a day late. Tanks are back up. Manny tells me that he
arranged for shipping before he left for Europe, but it didn't happen as
fast as hoped. Should get it Monday. I think I can do everything else
tomorrow--and maybe get the coach on its wheels enough to set ride height
and do an initial alignment. Then, I can finish up on Thursday--install the
shafts and settle in the bushings. May get there on Saturday.

Checklist:
- change converter (new issue that cropped up, but I have a spare)
- attach brake lines
- bleed brakes
- set ride height (install--finally!--adjustable leveling valve links I
bought from KenH maybe ten years ago)
- set toe
- set camber
- check caster

Day's work? Maybe.

Rick "a productive day changes one's perspective" Denney

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:26 PM Ken Henderson
wrote:

> Rick,
>
> I'm REALLY sorry to hear that. But I'm not optimistic about your getting
> the shaft in time due to Manny's trip to Europe. I don't know their
> schedule, but even if he ships it immediately when he gets home, delivery
> time will probably not work in your favor. That being so, I don't think
> you should over-stress on the other tasks. Wish I had a shaft to send you,
> but all mine are incompatible.
>
> Ken
>
> --
Rick Denney
73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
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Re: [GMCnet] &@":'#^>#! Mice! [message #323782 is a reply to message #323124] Mon, 11 September 2017 22:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard Denney is currently offline  Richard Denney   United States
Messages: 554
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 2
Senior Member
It turns out that wasn't the only problem--I forgot to mention this in my
last missive. The '73's (and maybe later models) have a TEE in the fill
vent line that has two 3/8" legs and a 1/2" leg. That TEE was made of
plastic on my coach, and the stem of the TEE (one of the 3/8" legs) was
cracked. It broke off altogether when dropping the tank. The only thing I
could find to replace it that had two 3/8" legs and a 1/2" leg was an
aluminum manifold for a dual-carb setup with three 3/8" NPT threaded holes.
I put in two 3/8" barb fitting and a 1/2" barb fitting. At least these are
fuel-hose barb fittings that allow removal--one thing I learned is that my
mouse-proof steel-braid fuel hose doesn't come off a multi-barb tubing
connector easily at all. But it was $40 by the time I got it together.

And I poured 15 gallons into the tanks and, sure enough, only the main-tank
sender works. Sigh. The AUX tank sender reads EMPTY (which is 0 ohms
resistance--I'm not really figuring how that's happening--I tested shorted
and open on both sender wires when I installed the new gauge). I'm hoping
it wakes up with movement, but if not it's okay--one working fuel sender
tells enough of the story.

Anyway--Progress Report: Brake lines attached and brakes bled. All the
bleeders on the drums were clean and easy--these had been replaced within
the last 15 years. Fluid was old, but still brake fluid. All new now. Jim
Hupy's bleeder made it fairly easy. Nice firm pedal once I compressed the
calipers against the rotors.

Also the adjustable rear leveling valve linkages have been installed. That
will make setting ride height a lot easier.

Thursday is the day to button it up, but still lots to do. Maybe we'll get
out of here on Friday, maybe Saturday. We'll get to Elkhart when we get
there.

Rick "save us a spot" Denney



On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 7:04 PM, Richard Denney wrote:

> Now I know why my rear tank sender was reading nada. A little chewer had
> taken out a bit of the harness going to it.
>
> I thought it was a clean break and spliced the ends together, but no. When
> positioning the tank to raise it back up, I came up a coupla inches short.
>
> Blast!
>
> Now, I have to add an extension on the end of the wire--no way am I
> replacing the whole harness.
>
> Done for the night.
>
> Rick "who vacuumed up mouse nest out of both sender wells on the tanks"
> Denney
> --
> Rick Denney
> 73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
> Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
>



--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
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Re: [GMCnet] &@":'#^>#! Mice! [message #323785 is a reply to message #323782] Tue, 12 September 2017 07:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
Messages: 6341
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 31
Senior Member
Too bad you didn't think to run that fill vent line up to under the cab floor. It makes fueling go much better.
But, I think I wrote all about that when you were not around here much.

You do know that if you put in that 15 gallons fast, it could all be in the main tank. That is the way that it wants to go.

Matt - See you in Elkhart


Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: [GMCnet] &@":'#^>#! Mice! [message #323787 is a reply to message #323785] Tue, 12 September 2017 09:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard Denney is currently offline  Richard Denney   United States
Messages: 554
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 2
Senior Member
Matt,

I hope it's true that it all ended up in the main tank, and that is indeed
possible. 15 gallons wouldn't necessarily submerge the fill tubes by enough
for the tanks to equalize. I hadn't thought of that.

The fill tubing is already up under the floor or jammed against the top of
the inside of the frame rail, a good three inches higher than what the
level would be in the fill tube. I don't know how it would be much higher.
This is a '73, so there is no sub-floor. What am I missing in what you are
saying?

Rick "thinking what is really needed is a 1" fill vent" Denney

On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 8:58 AM, Matt Colie wrote:

> Too bad you didn't think to run that fill vent line up to under the cab
> floor. It makes fueling go much better.
> But, I think I wrote all about that when you were not around here much.
>
> You do know that if you put in that 15 gallons fast, it could all be in
> the main tank. That is the way that it wants to go.
>
> Matt - See you in Elkhart
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>



--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
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Re: [GMCnet] &@":'#^>#! Mice! [message #323790 is a reply to message #323787] Tue, 12 September 2017 11:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr ERFisher is currently offline  Mr ERFisher   United States
Messages: 6997
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 14
Senior Member
On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 7:26 AM Richard Denney wrote:

> Matt,
>
> I hope it's true that it all ended up in the main tank, and that is indeed
> possible. 15 gallons wouldn't necessarily submerge the fill tubes by enough
> for the tanks to equalize. I hadn't thought of that.
>
> The fill tubing is already up under the floor or jammed against the top of
> the inside of the frame rail, a good three inches higher than what the
> level would be in the fill tube. I don't know how it would be much higher.
> This is a '73, so there is no sub-floor. What am I missing in what you are
> saying?
>
You already have a 3/4 in vent

read here
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/gas-tank-hard-lines/p45975-tank-vents1-pdf-file.html



> Rick "thinking what is really needed is a 1" fill vent" Denney
>
> On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 8:58 AM, Matt Colie wrote:
>
>> Too bad you didn't think to run that fill vent line up to under the cab
>> floor. It makes fueling go much better.
>> But, I think I wrote all about that when you were not around here much.
>>
>> You do know that if you put in that 15 gallons fast, it could all be in
>> the main tank. That is the way that it wants to go.
>>
>> Matt - See you in Elkhart
>> --
>> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
>> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
>> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
>> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> '73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
> Northern Virginia
> Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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Re: [GMCnet] &@":'#^>#! Mice! [message #323793 is a reply to message #323790] Tue, 12 September 2017 12:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard Denney is currently offline  Richard Denney   United States
Messages: 554
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 2
Senior Member
Well, not quite. The cross-sectional area of the fill-vent 3/8" line is
0.11 square inches. Two of those feed the cross-sectional area of a 1/2"
line, which is 0.20 square inches. The cross-sectional area of the evap
vent 5/16" line is 0.08 square inches, and one of them service both tanks.
Plus, it vents into the carbon canister, which doesn't vent very fast.

A 3/4" fill vent would have the cross-sectional area of 0.44 square inches,
more than twice the 1/2" line, and still very much larger than the sum of
the two cent systems. It would also be much less likely to submerge dips in
the line.

Most tanks vent well through the fill tube, and the fill vent is a backup.
We have to move 7 cubic feet of air through that half-inch line. Slooow.

Rick "area not diameter" Denney



On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 12:46 PM gene Fisher wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 7:26 AM Richard Denney wrote:
>
>> Matt,
>>
>> I hope it's true that it all ended up in the main tank, and that is
> indeed
>> possible. 15 gallons wouldn't necessarily submerge the fill tubes by
> enough
>> for the tanks to equalize. I hadn't thought of that.
>>
>> The fill tubing is already up under the floor or jammed against the top
> of
>> the inside of the frame rail, a good three inches higher than what the
>> level would be in the fill tube. I don't know how it would be much
> higher.
>> This is a '73, so there is no sub-floor. What am I missing in what you
> are
>> saying?
>>
> You already have a 3/4 in vent
>
> read here
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/gas-tank-hard-lines/p45975-tank-vents1-pdf-file.html
>
>
>
>> Rick "thinking what is really needed is a 1" fill vent" Denney
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 8:58 AM, Matt Colie
> wrote:
>>
>>> Too bad you didn't think to run that fill vent line up to under the cab
>>> floor. It makes fueling go much better.
>>> But, I think I wrote all about that when you were not around here much.
>>>
>>> You do know that if you put in that 15 gallons fast, it could all be in
>>> the main tank. That is the way that it wants to go.
>>>
>>> Matt - See you in Elkhart
>>> --
>>> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
>>> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
>>> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
>>> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> '73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
>> Northern Virginia
>> Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> -------
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
> Alternator Protection Cable
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Rick Denney
73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
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Re: [GMCnet] &@":'#^>#! Mice! [message #323810 is a reply to message #323787] Tue, 12 September 2017 16:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
Messages: 6341
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 31
Senior Member
Richard Denney wrote on Tue, 12 September 2017 10:25
Matt,

I hope it's true that it all ended up in the main tank, and that is indeed possible. 15 gallons wouldn't necessarily submerge the fill tubes by enough for the tanks to equalize. I hadn't thought of that.

The fill tubing is already up under the floor or jammed against the top of the inside of the frame rail, a good three inches higher than what the level would be in the fill tube. I don't know how it would be much higher.
This is a '73, so there is no sub-floor. What am I missing in what you are saying?

Rick "thinking what is really needed is a 1" fill vent" Denney
--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"


Rick,

Don't bother changing the size of the fill vent, just extend the lines as far and as high as you can. That alone will fix most of the problems with the stock fuel system.

I had an interesting experience early in my GMC life. The coach was used for my boat work only and so I ended up off the big roads often. I did not yet have anything like as much experience as the last ten years and seventy thousand miles have brought me.

Ready for one of Matt's stories?? Read on....
I was not keeping very good track of my fuel inventory and use - yet. I was trying to get home from a BFE location and the fuel light had been on a while. The coach stumbled and I switched to the auxiliary tank I hoped it had enough fuel to get me somewhere, but then I realized that there was nowhere that I wanted to buy fuel and the best shot was a country no-brand for a small diversion. I made it there, and before I could do anything a person came out and warned me that they could only take cash today. I had a single 20$ bill. So, I put that about eight and an half gallons in and headed for home. That should be good enough.

(Now - Remember when you were young and had a motorcycle with a three position fuel cock??? And you put some gas in it and took off. Then when it stumbled and you reached down to the gas cock only to find it was already in the "reserve" position? - I never did this, but I heard about it.)

A few miles down the road, the coach stumbled again. I looked down and the switch was still at "Aux". I though I was done. There should be fuel there...
I switched back to main and the engine caught and stayed running. After the breathing and adrenaline had settled, I looked again and the gauge was now about a quarter... Just for S&G, I did a quick switch back and on Aux, the needle went flat.

I was out of jobs for more than a week then so I decided to take the CFD software "borrowed" from a former employer and the notes from when I had to have things apart to replace the fill vent lines that has rotted out and do a mathematical model of the system. Well I did, then I used the model to put fuel in the system at the 10 GPM. (That is the EPA maximum of a motor fuel dispenser).

Well, of that 10 gallons of electronic gasoline, nine and change went into the main tank. So, what do I have? Maybe five miles of my electrons in the auxiliary tank? Well, that was about right.

The mod that I did to the fill vent can be read under "Recommending High T" if you do a search of old postings. That really only matters if you want to put more that 25 gallons in at once.

Matt - loading for Elkhart tonight



If you fuel fast,


Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: [GMCnet] &@":'#^>#! Mice! [message #323835 is a reply to message #323810] Wed, 13 September 2017 10:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard Denney is currently offline  Richard Denney   United States
Messages: 554
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 2
Senior Member
Matt,

I found that old listing, and now I know what you mean by "high". To
summarize what I think I read, you ran two 3/8" fill vent lines to the
front and up into the space behind the interior panel that covers the
plumbing for the fuel filler neck. And then you teed them into a half-inch
hose right below where the half-inch hose fits on the filler neck.

And the reason is that the main tanks fills first--the flow from the gas
pump pushes fuel into the rear tank before doing much filling of the front
tank, and when full it blasts a shot of gasoline into the fill-vent tubing
before much fuel enters the front tank. With the TEE in the rear, that
blast of fuel blocks air flow in the vent from the front tank, forcing the
front tank to fill very slowly and unhappily. So, the first 25 goes in
easy, and the second 25 doesn't. With the TEE in the front and right under
the filler neck, that blast of fuel doesn't make it into the fill vent for
the front tank, and it can vent as it fills as it should. The usual
practice of filling on the slow setting is a partial solution because it
makes it easier for the tanks to equalize a bit as they fill--there isn't
quite as much dynamic flow pushing past the side opening into the front
tank.

Did I get that right?

I'll do this in the future--don't have to drop the tanks to do it and I can
manage this one in my driveway.

Rick "who'll probably get a response to this in person in Elkhart, assuming
everything goes together well tomorrow" Denney

On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 5:38 PM, Matt Colie wrote:

> ...

The mod that I did to the fill vent can be read under "Recommending High T"
> if you do a search of old postings. That really only matters if you want
> to put more that 25 gallons in at once.
>
> Matt - loading for Elkhart tonight
>
>
>


--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
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Re: [GMCnet] &@":'#^>#! Mice! [message #323847 is a reply to message #323835] Wed, 13 September 2017 16:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
Messages: 6341
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 31
Senior Member
Richard Denney wrote on Wed, 13 September 2017 11:20
Matt,

I found that old listing, and now I know what you mean by "high". To summarize what I think I read, you ran two 3/8" fill vent lines to the front and up into the space behind the interior panel that covers the plumbing for the fuel filler neck. And then you teed them into a half-inch hose right below where the half-inch hose fits on the filler neck.

And the reason is that the main tanks fills first--the flow from the gas pump pushes fuel into the rear tank before doing much filling of the front tank, and when full it blasts a shot of gasoline into the fill-vent tubing before much fuel enters the front tank. With the TEE in the rear, that blast of fuel blocks air flow in the vent from the front tank, forcing the front tank to fill very slowly and unhappily. So, the first 25 goes in easy, and the second 25 doesn't. With the TEE in the front and right under the filler neck, that blast of fuel doesn't make it into the fill vent for the front tank, and it can vent as it fills as it should. The usual
practice of filling on the slow setting is a partial solution because it makes it easier for the tanks to equalize a bit as they fill--there isn't quite as much dynamic flow pushing past the side opening into the front tank.

Did I get that right?

I'll do this in the future--don't have to drop the tanks to do it and I can manage this one in my driveway.

Rick "who'll probably get a response to this in person in Elkhart, assuming everything goes together well tomorrow" Denney


Rick,

Do you know of a silly multi-letter response that means - "You Got It" ?

I didn't have the cab apart when I did it, so I put that T just under the cab flood and it worked out great.

Hope to see you in Elkhart.

Matt


Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: [GMCnet] &@":'#^>#! Mice! [message #323850 is a reply to message #323847] Wed, 13 September 2017 17:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
Messages: 4443
Registered: May 2010
Karma: 32
Senior Member
That is why GM changed the configuration of the fuel filler plumbing. They
have a larger metal pipe with an elbow on the main tank that is a molded
hose, slightly bigger on the upstream side, slightly constricted on the
other end of the elbow where it enters the rear tank. That provides a flow
restriction into the main tank that does two things. It slows the filling
rate to the main tank, and minimizes that "big slug of gas" back out the
tank vent hose.
But, that "big slug of gas" is necessary to cancel the pump nozzle, so you
cannot eliminate it altogether. I always fill on the slowest position on
the pump. On my coach, it seems to work better for me. I do stand right by
the nozzle with my remaining good ear close enough to hear the fuel going
in. When the pitch changes, I slow the fill rate. Not perfect but no dual
tank setup with a siamese fill manifold is.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

On Sep 13, 2017 2:26 PM, "Matt Colie" wrote:

> Richard Denney wrote on Wed, 13 September 2017 11:20
>> Matt,
>>
>> I found that old listing, and now I know what you mean by "high". To
> summarize what I think I read, you ran two 3/8" fill vent lines to the front
>> and up into the space behind the interior panel that covers the plumbing
> for the fuel filler neck. And then you teed them into a half-inch hose
>> right below where the half-inch hose fits on the filler neck.
>>
>> And the reason is that the main tanks fills first--the flow from the gas
> pump pushes fuel into the rear tank before doing much filling of the
>> front tank, and when full it blasts a shot of gasoline into the
> fill-vent tubing before much fuel enters the front tank. With the TEE in
> the rear,
>> that blast of fuel blocks air flow in the vent from the front tank,
> forcing the front tank to fill very slowly and unhappily. So, the first 25
> goes
>> in easy, and the second 25 doesn't. With the TEE in the front and right
> under the filler neck, that blast of fuel doesn't make it into the fill vent
>> for the front tank, and it can vent as it fills as it should. The usual
>> practice of filling on the slow setting is a partial solution because it
> makes it easier for the tanks to equalize a bit as they fill--there isn't
>> quite as much dynamic flow pushing past the side opening into the front
> tank.
>>
>> Did I get that right?
>>
>> I'll do this in the future--don't have to drop the tanks to do it and I
> can manage this one in my driveway.
>>
>> Rick "who'll probably get a response to this in person in Elkhart,
> assuming everything goes together well tomorrow" Denney
>
>
> Rick,
>
> Do you know of a silly multi-letter response that means - "You Got It" ?
>
> I didn't have the cab apart when I did it, so I put that T just under the
> cab flood and it worked out great.
>
> Hope to see you in Elkhart.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Re: [GMCnet] &@":'#^>#! Mice! [message #323885 is a reply to message #323847] Thu, 14 September 2017 21:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard Denney is currently offline  Richard Denney   United States
Messages: 554
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 2
Senior Member
Not gonna make Elkhart. I got the coach back together but I was hoping the
alignment would fall into place easily. It hasn't (I'll post separately),
and I think it's gonna take me most of the day tomorrow to get it all done.
The Redhead and I are suffering through a lot of residual flu symptoms, and
probably we wouldn't get away before Saturday.

Rick "not thinking a 600-mile test drive is a good idea" Denney

On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 5:26 PM Matt Colie wrote:

> Richard Denney wrote on Wed, 13 September 2017 11:20
>> Matt,
>>
>> I found that old listing, and now I know what you mean by "high". To
> summarize what I think I read, you ran two 3/8" fill vent lines to the front
>> and up into the space behind the interior panel that covers the plumbing
> for the fuel filler neck. And then you teed them into a half-inch hose
>> right below where the half-inch hose fits on the filler neck.
>>
>> And the reason is that the main tanks fills first--the flow from the gas
> pump pushes fuel into the rear tank before doing much filling of the
>> front tank, and when full it blasts a shot of gasoline into the
> fill-vent tubing before much fuel enters the front tank. With the TEE in
> the rear,
>> that blast of fuel blocks air flow in the vent from the front tank,
> forcing the front tank to fill very slowly and unhappily. So, the first 25
> goes
>> in easy, and the second 25 doesn't. With the TEE in the front and right
> under the filler neck, that blast of fuel doesn't make it into the fill vent
>> for the front tank, and it can vent as it fills as it should. The usual
>> practice of filling on the slow setting is a partial solution because it
> makes it easier for the tanks to equalize a bit as they fill--there isn't
>> quite as much dynamic flow pushing past the side opening into the front
> tank.
>>
>> Did I get that right?
>>
>> I'll do this in the future--don't have to drop the tanks to do it and I
> can manage this one in my driveway.
>>
>> Rick "who'll probably get a response to this in person in Elkhart,
> assuming everything goes together well tomorrow" Denney
>
>
> Rick,
>
> Do you know of a silly multi-letter response that means - "You Got It" ?
>
> I didn't have the cab apart when I did it, so I put that T just under the
> cab flood and it worked out great.
>
> Hope to see you in Elkhart.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Rick Denney
73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
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Re: [GMCnet] &@":'#^>#! Mice! [message #323886 is a reply to message #323885] Thu, 14 September 2017 22:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Henderson is currently offline  Ken Henderson   United States
Messages: 7216
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 40
Senior Member
Rick,

Sorry things didn't work out. I know it's a big disappointment after
working so hard these past few weeks to make it happen.

Ken H.


On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 10:55 PM, Richard Denney wrote:

> Not gonna make Elkhart. I got the coach back together but I was hoping the
> alignment would fall into place easily. It hasn't (I'll post separately),
> and I think it's gonna take me most of the day tomorrow to get it all done.
> The Redhead and I are suffering through a lot of residual flu symptoms, and
> probably we wouldn't get away before Saturday.
>
> Rick "not thinking a 600-mile test drive is a good idea" Denney
>
> On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 5:26 PM Matt Colie wrote:
>
>> Richard Denney wrote on Wed, 13 September 2017 11:20
>>> Matt,
>>>
>>> I found that old listing, and now I know what you mean by "high". To
>> summarize what I think I read, you ran two 3/8" fill vent lines to the
> front
>>> and up into the space behind the interior panel that covers the
> plumbing
>> for the fuel filler neck. And then you teed them into a half-inch hose
>>> right below where the half-inch hose fits on the filler neck.
>>>
>>> And the reason is that the main tanks fills first--the flow from the
> gas
>> pump pushes fuel into the rear tank before doing much filling of the
>>> front tank, and when full it blasts a shot of gasoline into the
>> fill-vent tubing before much fuel enters the front tank. With the TEE in
>> the rear,
>>> that blast of fuel blocks air flow in the vent from the front tank,
>> forcing the front tank to fill very slowly and unhappily. So, the first
> 25
>> goes
>>> in easy, and the second 25 doesn't. With the TEE in the front and right
>> under the filler neck, that blast of fuel doesn't make it into the fill
> vent
>>> for the front tank, and it can vent as it fills as it should. The usual
>>> practice of filling on the slow setting is a partial solution because
> it
>> makes it easier for the tanks to equalize a bit as they fill--there isn't
>>> quite as much dynamic flow pushing past the side opening into the front
>> tank.
>>>
>>> Did I get that right?
>>>
>>> I'll do this in the future--don't have to drop the tanks to do it and I
>> can manage this one in my driveway.
>>>
>>> Rick "who'll probably get a response to this in person in Elkhart,
>> assuming everything goes together well tomorrow" Denney
>>
>>
>> Rick,
>>
>> Do you know of a silly multi-letter response that means - "You Got It" ?
>>
>> I didn't have the cab apart when I did it, so I put that T just under the
>> cab flood and it worked out great.
>>
>> Hope to see you in Elkhart.
>>
>> Matt
>> --
>> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
>> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
>> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
>> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> --
> Rick Denney
> 73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
> Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
Re: [GMCnet] &@":'#^>#! Mice! [message #323890 is a reply to message #323886] Thu, 14 September 2017 22:51 Go to previous message
Richard Denney is currently offline  Richard Denney   United States
Messages: 554
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 2
Senior Member
I've come to terms with it. I may spend my vacation doing other GMC
projects--haven't done that in years. Or, I might go back to work and save
my vacation time.

Rick "how about a reaction-rod project at Bean Station?" Denney

On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 11:10 PM Ken Henderson
wrote:

> Rick,
>
> Sorry things didn't work out. I know it's a big disappointment after
> working so hard these past few weeks to make it happen.
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 10:55 PM, Richard Denney
> wrote:
>
>> Not gonna make Elkhart. I got the coach back together but I was hoping
> the
>> alignment would fall into place easily. It hasn't (I'll post separately),
>> and I think it's gonna take me most of the day tomorrow to get it all
> done.
>> The Redhead and I are suffering through a lot of residual flu symptoms,
> and
>> probably we wouldn't get away before Saturday.
>>
>> Rick "not thinking a 600-mile test drive is a good idea" Denney
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 5:26 PM Matt Colie
> wrote:
>>
>>> Richard Denney wrote on Wed, 13 September 2017 11:20
>>>> Matt,
>>>>
>>>> I found that old listing, and now I know what you mean by "high". To
>>> summarize what I think I read, you ran two 3/8" fill vent lines to the
>> front
>>>> and up into the space behind the interior panel that covers the
>> plumbing
>>> for the fuel filler neck. And then you teed them into a half-inch hose
>>>> right below where the half-inch hose fits on the filler neck.
>>>>
>>>> And the reason is that the main tanks fills first--the flow from the
>> gas
>>> pump pushes fuel into the rear tank before doing much filling of the
>>>> front tank, and when full it blasts a shot of gasoline into the
>>> fill-vent tubing before much fuel enters the front tank. With the TEE
> in
>>> the rear,
>>>> that blast of fuel blocks air flow in the vent from the front tank,
>>> forcing the front tank to fill very slowly and unhappily. So, the first
>> 25
>>> goes
>>>> in easy, and the second 25 doesn't. With the TEE in the front and
> right
>>> under the filler neck, that blast of fuel doesn't make it into the fill
>> vent
>>>> for the front tank, and it can vent as it fills as it should. The
> usual
>>>> practice of filling on the slow setting is a partial solution because
>> it
>>> makes it easier for the tanks to equalize a bit as they fill--there
> isn't
>>>> quite as much dynamic flow pushing past the side opening into the
> front
>>> tank.
>>>>
>>>> Did I get that right?
>>>>
>>>> I'll do this in the future--don't have to drop the tanks to do it
> and I
>>> can manage this one in my driveway.
>>>>
>>>> Rick "who'll probably get a response to this in person in Elkhart,
>>> assuming everything goes together well tomorrow" Denney
>>>
>>>
>>> Rick,
>>>
>>> Do you know of a silly multi-letter response that means - "You Got It"
> ?
>>>
>>> I didn't have the cab apart when I did it, so I put that T just under
> the
>>> cab flood and it worked out great.
>>>
>>> Hope to see you in Elkhart.
>>>
>>> Matt
>>> --
>>> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
>>> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
>>> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
>>> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> --
>> Rick Denney
>> 73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
>> Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Rick Denney
73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
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