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[GMCnet] Final Drive Intermediate Axle questions [message #322495] Tue, 22 August 2017 14:40 Go to next message
Richard Denney is currently offline  Richard Denney   United States
Messages: 554
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 2
Senior Member
Sorry, I can't think of any way to present this briefly.

After installing the new final drive, and reinstalling all the stuff I had
had to remove, my last step was installing the intermediate axle, which
extends from the final drive through a hanger that bolts to the starboard
side of the block, and provides the flange for the starboard half-shaft to
bolt to. This axle just inserts into the final drive, and the spline
engages the spider (or, in the case of this rebuilt 3.21, the planetary
gear). The manual says to adjust it around to find the middle of play, and
then tighten the two bolts that hold that hanger in place good'n'tight (50
foot-pounds). Those bolts have specially hardened and thick serrated
washers to hold the hanger in that position.

I anticipated this would be easy, but, of course, it's the easy stuff that
surprises us.

1. I can't find the middle position--the play accommodated all extremes of
the holes in the hanger. I looked for a position that provided easiest
rotation (not easy to discern) and didn't seem to distort the seal (also
not easy to discern).

2. The real problem is that when I tighten those hanger bolts, I get a very
loud bearing noise in that hanger bearing when I spin the axle by hand. I'm
expecting some roughness provided by the rattling of the gears in the final
drive, but this sound was definitely coming from the hanger bearing. That
bearing is new, and smooth as butter when not bolted up to anything. When I
hold the hanger in what seems to be the best position but don't tighten it,
I get what I think is only final-drive noise when I spin the axle.

Yes, I have filled the final drive with gear oil.

Manny had never experienced this issue before, but these hangers come from
salvage yards and be slightly tweaked if the car was wrecked in a way that
affected the right front wheel.

So, possibilities: A. The hanger isn't quite straight straight, and it's
not holding the bearing square with the axle. B. The hanger is too close to
the final drive (or the bearing isn't seated all the way in the hanger) and
it's binding axially. C. The slinger (inside dust cover) is rubbing on
something and ringing when the hanger is tightened.

Questions:

Has anybody experienced this issue?

Does anybody know if there is a standard piece of pipe that I can use to
press against the slinger that covers the inside of the bearing? Or any
other advice on how to reseat the bearing? The manual calls for a special
tool, but it just looks like a piece of pipe that fits over the axle in a
press that bears on the recessed part of the slinger that pushes directly
on the bearing.

Manny suggested that I could move the axle to the old hanger (they are all
the same), given that I have a press, but I can't see how to get the
slinger over the larger diameter of the seal race and spline on the
final-drive end, and I think that slinger is just sheet metal that is
crimped on the axle when the right pressing tool is used. Or, I'm missing
some obvious point about how it's attached. The slinger covers the retainer
to provide a dust shield for the bearing seal. I'm just not sure I won't
mess up what I have. He also suggested that I could "adjust" the hanger so
that it hangs at the right place, but my attempts to do that have not
solved the problem. I even wondered if I could put a thin washer under the
hanger, but I don't know what the axial tolerance is supposed to be.

Alternative is to ask Manny to ship me a replacement 3.21 FD intermediate
axle if he has one available, and send this one back for his far more
expert inspection.

Rick "advice welcome" Denney

--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
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Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Intermediate Axle questions [message #322496 is a reply to message #322495] Tue, 22 August 2017 15:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
Messages: 4442
Registered: May 2010
Karma: 32
Senior Member
Rick, what locates the bearing axially on the jack shaft? I am not familiar
with the 3:21 final drive. But I know that the Cadillac vs Olds are
different from each other. It seems from your description that when the
hanger is loose, that the shaft turns quietly, but when it is tightened, it
binds up. Just wonder if the replacement bearing is not positioned
correctly? That's all I got. Sorry.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

On Aug 22, 2017 12:41 PM, "Richard Denney" wrote:

Sorry, I can't think of any way to present this briefly.

After installing the new final drive, and reinstalling all the stuff I had
had to remove, my last step was installing the intermediate axle, which
extends from the final drive through a hanger that bolts to the starboard
side of the block, and provides the flange for the starboard half-shaft to
bolt to. This axle just inserts into the final drive, and the spline
engages the spider (or, in the case of this rebuilt 3.21, the planetary
gear). The manual says to adjust it around to find the middle of play, and
then tighten the two bolts that hold that hanger in place good'n'tight (50
foot-pounds). Those bolts have specially hardened and thick serrated
washers to hold the hanger in that position.

I anticipated this would be easy, but, of course, it's the easy stuff that
surprises us.

1. I can't find the middle position--the play accommodated all extremes of
the holes in the hanger. I looked for a position that provided easiest
rotation (not easy to discern) and didn't seem to distort the seal (also
not easy to discern).

2. The real problem is that when I tighten those hanger bolts, I get a very
loud bearing noise in that hanger bearing when I spin the axle by hand. I'm
expecting some roughness provided by the rattling of the gears in the final
drive, but this sound was definitely coming from the hanger bearing. That
bearing is new, and smooth as butter when not bolted up to anything. When I
hold the hanger in what seems to be the best position but don't tighten it,
I get what I think is only final-drive noise when I spin the axle.

Yes, I have filled the final drive with gear oil.

Manny had never experienced this issue before, but these hangers come from
salvage yards and be slightly tweaked if the car was wrecked in a way that
affected the right front wheel.

So, possibilities: A. The hanger isn't quite straight straight, and it's
not holding the bearing square with the axle. B. The hanger is too close to
the final drive (or the bearing isn't seated all the way in the hanger) and
it's binding axially. C. The slinger (inside dust cover) is rubbing on
something and ringing when the hanger is tightened.

Questions:

Has anybody experienced this issue?

Does anybody know if there is a standard piece of pipe that I can use to
press against the slinger that covers the inside of the bearing? Or any
other advice on how to reseat the bearing? The manual calls for a special
tool, but it just looks like a piece of pipe that fits over the axle in a
press that bears on the recessed part of the slinger that pushes directly
on the bearing.

Manny suggested that I could move the axle to the old hanger (they are all
the same), given that I have a press, but I can't see how to get the
slinger over the larger diameter of the seal race and spline on the
final-drive end, and I think that slinger is just sheet metal that is
crimped on the axle when the right pressing tool is used. Or, I'm missing
some obvious point about how it's attached. The slinger covers the retainer
to provide a dust shield for the bearing seal. I'm just not sure I won't
mess up what I have. He also suggested that I could "adjust" the hanger so
that it hangs at the right place, but my attempts to do that have not
solved the problem. I even wondered if I could put a thin washer under the
hanger, but I don't know what the axial tolerance is supposed to be.

Alternative is to ask Manny to ship me a replacement 3.21 FD intermediate
axle if he has one available, and send this one back for his far more
expert inspection.

Rick "advice welcome" Denney

--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
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Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Intermediate Axle questions [message #322497 is a reply to message #322496] Tue, 22 August 2017 15:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard Denney is currently offline  Richard Denney   United States
Messages: 554
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 2
Senior Member
The hanger bearing and bracket is the same between the 3.21 and the 3.07.
The hanger includes a cup that retains the bearing in the outboard
direction, and a bolt-down retainer on the inboard side. Of course, the
final drive itself retains it in the inboard direction, and the half-shaft
and steering knuckle retains it in the outboard direction, so the hanger
only needs to keep it positioned against the float of those constraints.

The slinger is pressed down over the axle and provides a grease-filled
labyrinth seal to protect the bearing on the inboard side. Likewise, the
axle has a dust cover that is pressed onto the back side of the axle flange
that provides the same protection on the outboard side. It's shown in
Figure 7 of X-7425, page 3C-5.

The 3.21 shaft is a bit thinner in the middle than the 3.07 shaft, but the
bearing seats are the same and they use the same bearing. The only
difference in the shafts otherwise is the spline on the end of the shaft
that inserts into the final drive.

My next step is to try to make sure the bearing is seated fully in the cup
of the bracket. There's no way to press on it directly without removing the
slinger, but there's a gap under the edge of the slinger that I think I can
get under and tap around it to make sure it's tight in that cup. The fit in
the cup is not, I don't think, all that tight. It's a tighter fit on the
axle, I suspect. It's a symmetrical ball bearing, as expected given that
there's only the one bearing.

Thing is, I can't make that bearing anything but glass-smooth when I
manipulate it off the coach, even when I put the bracket in a vice and lean
on the axle while turning it. But I'm still experimenting. That's what
makes me suspect it's pushing the axle too far into the final drive. I am
going to really go over that bracket with a straightedge and see if it's
been tweaked in a way that is hard to see.

Rick "looking for the collective experience, if there is any" Denney

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 4:01 PM, James Hupy wrote:

> Rick, what locates the bearing axially on the jack shaft? I am not familiar
> with the 3:21 final drive. But I know that the Cadillac vs Olds are
> different from each other. It seems from your description that when the
> hanger is loose, that the shaft turns quietly, but when it is tightened, it
> binds up. Just wonder if the replacement bearing is not positioned
> correctly? That's all I got. Sorry.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or
> 78 GMC ROYALE 403
>
> On Aug 22, 2017 12:41 PM, "Richard Denney" wrote:
>
> Sorry, I can't think of any way to present this briefly.
>
> After installing the new final drive, and reinstalling all the stuff I had
> had to remove, my last step was installing the intermediate axle, which
> extends from the final drive through a hanger that bolts to the starboard
> side of the block, and provides the flange for the starboard half-shaft to
> bolt to. This axle just inserts into the final drive, and the spline
> engages the spider (or, in the case of this rebuilt 3.21, the planetary
> gear). The manual says to adjust it around to find the middle of play, and
> then tighten the two bolts that hold that hanger in place good'n'tight (50
> foot-pounds). Those bolts have specially hardened and thick serrated
> washers to hold the hanger in that position.
>
> I anticipated this would be easy, but, of course, it's the easy stuff that
> surprises us.
>
> 1. I can't find the middle position--the play accommodated all extremes of
> the holes in the hanger. I looked for a position that provided easiest
> rotation (not easy to discern) and didn't seem to distort the seal (also
> not easy to discern).
>
> 2. The real problem is that when I tighten those hanger bolts, I get a very
> loud bearing noise in that hanger bearing when I spin the axle by hand. I'm
> expecting some roughness provided by the rattling of the gears in the final
> drive, but this sound was definitely coming from the hanger bearing. That
> bearing is new, and smooth as butter when not bolted up to anything. When I
> hold the hanger in what seems to be the best position but don't tighten it,
> I get what I think is only final-drive noise when I spin the axle.
>
> Yes, I have filled the final drive with gear oil.
>
> Manny had never experienced this issue before, but these hangers come from
> salvage yards and be slightly tweaked if the car was wrecked in a way that
> affected the right front wheel.
>
> So, possibilities: A. The hanger isn't quite straight straight, and it's
> not holding the bearing square with the axle. B. The hanger is too close to
> the final drive (or the bearing isn't seated all the way in the hanger) and
> it's binding axially. C. The slinger (inside dust cover) is rubbing on
> something and ringing when the hanger is tightened.
>
> Questions:
>
> Has anybody experienced this issue?
>
> Does anybody know if there is a standard piece of pipe that I can use to
> press against the slinger that covers the inside of the bearing? Or any
> other advice on how to reseat the bearing? The manual calls for a special
> tool, but it just looks like a piece of pipe that fits over the axle in a
> press that bears on the recessed part of the slinger that pushes directly
> on the bearing.
>
> Manny suggested that I could move the axle to the old hanger (they are all
> the same), given that I have a press, but I can't see how to get the
> slinger over the larger diameter of the seal race and spline on the
> final-drive end, and I think that slinger is just sheet metal that is
> crimped on the axle when the right pressing tool is used. Or, I'm missing
> some obvious point about how it's attached. The slinger covers the retainer
> to provide a dust shield for the bearing seal. I'm just not sure I won't
> mess up what I have. He also suggested that I could "adjust" the hanger so
> that it hangs at the right place, but my attempts to do that have not
> solved the problem. I even wondered if I could put a thin washer under the
> hanger, but I don't know what the axial tolerance is supposed to be.
>
> Alternative is to ask Manny to ship me a replacement 3.21 FD intermediate
> axle if he has one available, and send this one back for his far more
> expert inspection.
>
> Rick "advice welcome" Denney
>
> --
> '73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
> Northern Virginia
> Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>



--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
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Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Intermediate Axle questions [message #322498 is a reply to message #322495] Tue, 22 August 2017 16:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15324
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 41
Senior Member
Rich,

I installed a 3.21 to 1 in Double Trouble and have one here in Sydney (yet to be installed) for The Blue Streak. I did not have this
problem when installing the 3.21 in Double Trouble. I also have a spare bearing.

I'll look at the parts I have here today and see what I can figger out.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces-AT-list-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org] On Behalf Of Richard Denney
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 5:41 AM
To: gmclist-AT-list-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org
Subject: [GMCnet] Final Drive Intermediate Axle questions

Sorry, I can't think of any way to present this briefly.

After installing the new final drive, and reinstalling all the stuff I had
had to remove, my last step was installing the intermediate axle, which
extends from the final drive through a hanger that bolts to the starboard
side of the block, and provides the flange for the starboard half-shaft to
bolt to. This axle just inserts into the final drive, and the spline
engages the spider (or, in the case of this rebuilt 3.21, the planetary
gear). The manual says to adjust it around to find the middle of play, and
then tighten the two bolts that hold that hanger in place good'n'tight (50
foot-pounds). Those bolts have specially hardened and thick serrated
washers to hold the hanger in that position.

I anticipated this would be easy, but, of course, it's the easy stuff that
surprises us.

1. I can't find the middle position--the play accommodated all extremes of
the holes in the hanger. I looked for a position that provided easiest
rotation (not easy to discern) and didn't seem to distort the seal (also
not easy to discern).

2. The real problem is that when I tighten those hanger bolts, I get a very
loud bearing noise in that hanger bearing when I spin the axle by hand. I'm
expecting some roughness provided by the rattling of the gears in the final
drive, but this sound was definitely coming from the hanger bearing. That
bearing is new, and smooth as butter when not bolted up to anything. When I
hold the hanger in what seems to be the best position but don't tighten it,
I get what I think is only final-drive noise when I spin the axle.

Yes, I have filled the final drive with gear oil.

Manny had never experienced this issue before, but these hangers come from
salvage yards and be slightly tweaked if the car was wrecked in a way that
affected the right front wheel.

So, possibilities: A. The hanger isn't quite straight straight, and it's
not holding the bearing square with the axle. B. The hanger is too close to
the final drive (or the bearing isn't seated all the way in the hanger) and
it's binding axially. C. The slinger (inside dust cover) is rubbing on
something and ringing when the hanger is tightened.

Questions:

Has anybody experienced this issue?

Does anybody know if there is a standard piece of pipe that I can use to
press against the slinger that covers the inside of the bearing? Or any
other advice on how to reseat the bearing? The manual calls for a special
tool, but it just looks like a piece of pipe that fits over the axle in a
press that bears on the recessed part of the slinger that pushes directly
on the bearing.

Manny suggested that I could move the axle to the old hanger (they are all
the same), given that I have a press, but I can't see how to get the
slinger over the larger diameter of the seal race and spline on the
final-drive end, and I think that slinger is just sheet metal that is
crimped on the axle when the right pressing tool is used. Or, I'm missing
some obvious point about how it's attached. The slinger covers the retainer
to provide a dust shield for the bearing seal. I'm just not sure I won't
mess up what I have. He also suggested that I could "adjust" the hanger so
that it hangs at the right place, but my attempts to do that have not
solved the problem. I even wondered if I could put a thin washer under the
hanger, but I don't know what the axial tolerance is supposed to be.

Alternative is to ask Manny to ship me a replacement 3.21 FD intermediate
axle if he has one available, and send this one back for his far more
expert inspection.

Rick "advice welcome" Denney

--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Intermediate Axle questions [message #322502 is a reply to message #322497] Tue, 22 August 2017 17:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jhb1 is currently offline  jhb1   Canada
Messages: 300
Registered: February 2004
Karma: 0
Senior Member
[quote title=Richard Denney wrote on Tue, 22 August 2017 20:59]The hanger bearing and bracket is the same between the 3.21 and the 3.07.
The hanger includes a cup that retains the bearing in the outboard
direction, and a bolt-down retainer on the inboard side. Of course, the
final drive itself retains it in the inboard direction, and the half-shaft
and steering knuckle retains it in the outboard direction, so the hanger
only needs to k/SNIP
quote]

Rick
I was under the impression that the jack shaft hanger is diffferent between the 3.21 and 3.07 as whe John Biwersi changed mine a few years ago he changed the jack shat also

HTH


John H. Bell
77 Royale; QuadBag,Manny OneTon,Honda EV4010, FITech
Montreal Qc.
Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Intermediate Axle questions [message #322503 is a reply to message #322502] Tue, 22 August 2017 17:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard Denney is currently offline  Richard Denney   United States
Messages: 554
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 2
Senior Member
The shaft is different, but the hanger and bearing are the same. The
bearing is pressed into the hanger and onto the axle, so the axle and
hanger bracket are usually kept as one assembly.

Rick "comparing them side by side" Denney

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 6:20 PM jhb1 wrote:

> [quote title=Richard Denney wrote on Tue, 22 August 2017 20:59]The hanger
> bearing and bracket is the same between the 3.21 and the 3.07.
> The hanger includes a cup that retains the bearing in the outboard
> direction, and a bolt-down retainer on the inboard side. Of course, the
> final drive itself retains it in the inboard direction, and the half-shaft
> and steering knuckle retains it in the outboard direction, so the hanger
> only needs to k/SNIP
> quote]
>
> Rick
> I was under the impression that the jack shaft hanger is diffferent
> between the 3.21 and 3.07 as whe John Biwersi changed mine a few years ago
> he
> changed the jack shat also
>
> HTH
> --
> John H. Bell
> 77 Royale; QuadBag,Manny OneTon,Honda EV4010, FITech
> Montreal Qc.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Rick Denney
73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
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Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Intermediate Axle questions [message #322504 is a reply to message #322495] Tue, 22 August 2017 19:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Henderson is currently offline  Ken Henderson   United States
Messages: 7216
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 40
Senior Member
Rick,

I have zero experience with the 3.21. But one idea popped into my mind:
Do you have the strut that connects the final drive to the stub axle
hanger? Or is one even used with the 3.21? Seems to me that the presence
of that strut would help to position the hanger properly, at least against
lateral movement which might result when you tighten the bolts into the
engine.

Ken H.


On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 3:40 PM, Richard Denney wrote:

> Sorry, I can't think of any way to present this briefly.
>
> After installing the new final drive, and reinstalling all the stuff I had
> had to remove, my last step was installing the intermediate axle, which
> extends from the final drive through a hanger that bolts to the starboard
> side of the block, and provides the flange for the starboard half-shaft to
> bolt to. This axle just inserts into the final drive, and the spline
> engages the spider (or, in the case of this rebuilt 3.21, the planetary
> gear). The manual says to adjust it around to find the middle of play, and
> then tighten the two bolts that hold that hanger in place good'n'tight (50
> foot-pounds). Those bolts have specially hardened and thick serrated
> washers to hold the hanger in that position.
>
> I anticipated this would be easy, but, of course, it's the easy stuff that
> surprises us.
>
> 1. I can't find the middle position--the play accommodated all extremes of
> the holes in the hanger. I looked for a position that provided easiest
> rotation (not easy to discern) and didn't seem to distort the seal (also
> not easy to discern).
>
> 2. The real problem is that when I tighten those hanger bolts, I get a very
> loud bearing noise in that hanger bearing when I spin the axle by hand. I'm
> expecting some roughness provided by the rattling of the gears in the final
> drive, but this sound was definitely coming from the hanger bearing. That
> bearing is new, and smooth as butter when not bolted up to anything. When I
> hold the hanger in what seems to be the best position but don't tighten it,
> I get what I think is only final-drive noise when I spin the axle.
>
> Yes, I have filled the final drive with gear oil.
>
> Manny had never experienced this issue before, but these hangers come from
> salvage yards and be slightly tweaked if the car was wrecked in a way that
> affected the right front wheel.
>
> So, possibilities: A. The hanger isn't quite straight straight, and it's
> not holding the bearing square with the axle. B. The hanger is too close to
> the final drive (or the bearing isn't seated all the way in the hanger) and
> it's binding axially. C. The slinger (inside dust cover) is rubbing on
> something and ringing when the hanger is tightened.
>
> Questions:
>
> Has anybody experienced this issue?
>
> Does anybody know if there is a standard piece of pipe that I can use to
> press against the slinger that covers the inside of the bearing? Or any
> other advice on how to reseat the bearing? The manual calls for a special
> tool, but it just looks like a piece of pipe that fits over the axle in a
> press that bears on the recessed part of the slinger that pushes directly
> on the bearing.
>
> Manny suggested that I could move the axle to the old hanger (they are all
> the same), given that I have a press, but I can't see how to get the
> slinger over the larger diameter of the seal race and spline on the
> final-drive end, and I think that slinger is just sheet metal that is
> crimped on the axle when the right pressing tool is used. Or, I'm missing
> some obvious point about how it's attached. The slinger covers the retainer
> to provide a dust shield for the bearing seal. I'm just not sure I won't
> mess up what I have. He also suggested that I could "adjust" the hanger so
> that it hangs at the right place, but my attempts to do that have not
> solved the problem. I even wondered if I could put a thin washer under the
> hanger, but I don't know what the axial tolerance is supposed to be.
>
> Alternative is to ask Manny to ship me a replacement 3.21 FD intermediate
> axle if he has one available, and send this one back for his far more
> expert inspection.
>
> Rick "advice welcome" Denney
>
> --
> '73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
> Northern Virginia
> Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Intermediate Axle questions [message #322513 is a reply to message #322504] Tue, 22 August 2017 21:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard Denney is currently offline  Richard Denney   United States
Messages: 554
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 2
Senior Member
What strut? I don't have anything like what you are describing even on my
3.07. The axle assembly includes the axle (flange and shaft), bracket (what
I've been calling the hanger), the bolt-on retainer, the bearing sandwiched
between the bracket and the retainer, and the pressed-on slinger. The
bracket bolts to the side of the block with 7/16 screws and large, special
washers. One of them has an addition stud for the horse-collar bracket. I
don't see anything else connecting the bracket in the right with the final
drive on the left.

Rick "pictures?" Denney

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 8:08 PM Ken Henderson
wrote:

> Rick,
>
> I have zero experience with the 3.21. But one idea popped into my mind:
> Do you have the strut that connects the final drive to the stub axle
> hanger? Or is one even used with the 3.21? Seems to me that the presence
> of that strut would help to position the hanger properly, at least against
> lateral movement which might result when you tighten the bolts into the
> engine.
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 3:40 PM, Richard Denney
> wrote:
>
>> Sorry, I can't think of any way to present this briefly.
>>
>> After installing the new final drive, and reinstalling all the stuff I
> had
>> had to remove, my last step was installing the intermediate axle, which
>> extends from the final drive through a hanger that bolts to the starboard
>> side of the block, and provides the flange for the starboard half-shaft
> to
>> bolt to. This axle just inserts into the final drive, and the spline
>> engages the spider (or, in the case of this rebuilt 3.21, the planetary
>> gear). The manual says to adjust it around to find the middle of play,
> and
>> then tighten the two bolts that hold that hanger in place good'n'tight
> (50
>> foot-pounds). Those bolts have specially hardened and thick serrated
>> washers to hold the hanger in that position.
>>
>> I anticipated this would be easy, but, of course, it's the easy stuff
> that
>> surprises us.
>>
>> 1. I can't find the middle position--the play accommodated all extremes
> of
>> the holes in the hanger. I looked for a position that provided easiest
>> rotation (not easy to discern) and didn't seem to distort the seal (also
>> not easy to discern).
>>
>> 2. The real problem is that when I tighten those hanger bolts, I get a
> very
>> loud bearing noise in that hanger bearing when I spin the axle by hand.
> I'm
>> expecting some roughness provided by the rattling of the gears in the
> final
>> drive, but this sound was definitely coming from the hanger bearing. That
>> bearing is new, and smooth as butter when not bolted up to anything.
> When I
>> hold the hanger in what seems to be the best position but don't tighten
> it,
>> I get what I think is only final-drive noise when I spin the axle.
>>
>> Yes, I have filled the final drive with gear oil.
>>
>> Manny had never experienced this issue before, but these hangers come
> from
>> salvage yards and be slightly tweaked if the car was wrecked in a way
> that
>> affected the right front wheel.
>>
>> So, possibilities: A. The hanger isn't quite straight straight, and it's
>> not holding the bearing square with the axle. B. The hanger is too close
> to
>> the final drive (or the bearing isn't seated all the way in the hanger)
> and
>> it's binding axially. C. The slinger (inside dust cover) is rubbing on
>> something and ringing when the hanger is tightened.
>>
>> Questions:
>>
>> Has anybody experienced this issue?
>>
>> Does anybody know if there is a standard piece of pipe that I can use to
>> press against the slinger that covers the inside of the bearing? Or any
>> other advice on how to reseat the bearing? The manual calls for a special
>> tool, but it just looks like a piece of pipe that fits over the axle in a
>> press that bears on the recessed part of the slinger that pushes directly
>> on the bearing.
>>
>> Manny suggested that I could move the axle to the old hanger (they are
> all
>> the same), given that I have a press, but I can't see how to get the
>> slinger over the larger diameter of the seal race and spline on the
>> final-drive end, and I think that slinger is just sheet metal that is
>> crimped on the axle when the right pressing tool is used. Or, I'm missing
>> some obvious point about how it's attached. The slinger covers the
> retainer
>> to provide a dust shield for the bearing seal. I'm just not sure I won't
>> mess up what I have. He also suggested that I could "adjust" the hanger
> so
>> that it hangs at the right place, but my attempts to do that have not
>> solved the problem. I even wondered if I could put a thin washer under
> the
>> hanger, but I don't know what the axial tolerance is supposed to be.
>>
>> Alternative is to ask Manny to ship me a replacement 3.21 FD
> intermediate
>> axle if he has one available, and send this one back for his far more
>> expert inspection.
>>
>> Rick "advice welcome" Denney
>>
>> --
>> '73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
>> Northern Virginia
>> Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Rick Denney
73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
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Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Intermediate Axle questions [message #322515 is a reply to message #322513] Tue, 22 August 2017 22:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kosier is currently offline  Kosier   United States
Messages: 754
Registered: February 2008
Karma: 1
Senior Member
Rick,
''It's because that strut is only used on the Eldorado.

Gary Kosier
77PB w/500Cad
Newark, Ohio

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Richard Denney"
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 10:13 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Intermediate Axle questions

> What strut? I don't have anything like what you are describing even on my
> 3.07. The axle assembly includes the axle (flange and shaft), bracket
> (what
> I've been calling the hanger), the bolt-on retainer, the bearing
> sandwiched
> between the bracket and the retainer, and the pressed-on slinger. The
> bracket bolts to the side of the block with 7/16 screws and large, special
> washers. One of them has an addition stud for the horse-collar bracket. I
> don't see anything else connecting the bracket in the right with the final
> drive on the left.
>
> Rick "pictures?" Denney
>
> On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 8:08 PM Ken Henderson
> wrote:
>
>> Rick,
>>
>> I have zero experience with the 3.21. But one idea popped into my mind:
>> Do you have the strut that connects the final drive to the stub axle
>> hanger? Or is one even used with the 3.21? Seems to me that the
>> presence
>> of that strut would help to position the hanger properly, at least
>> against
>> lateral movement which might result when you tighten the bolts into the
>> engine.
>>
>> Ken H.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 3:40 PM, Richard Denney
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry, I can't think of any way to present this briefly.
>>>
>>> After installing the new final drive, and reinstalling all the stuff I
>> had
>>> had to remove, my last step was installing the intermediate axle, which
>>> extends from the final drive through a hanger that bolts to the
>>> starboard
>>> side of the block, and provides the flange for the starboard half-shaft
>> to
>>> bolt to. This axle just inserts into the final drive, and the spline
>>> engages the spider (or, in the case of this rebuilt 3.21, the planetary
>>> gear). The manual says to adjust it around to find the middle of play,
>> and
>>> then tighten the two bolts that hold that hanger in place good'n'tight
>> (50
>>> foot-pounds). Those bolts have specially hardened and thick serrated
>>> washers to hold the hanger in that position.
>>>
>>> I anticipated this would be easy, but, of course, it's the easy stuff
>> that
>>> surprises us.
>>>
>>> 1. I can't find the middle position--the play accommodated all extremes
>> of
>>> the holes in the hanger. I looked for a position that provided easiest
>>> rotation (not easy to discern) and didn't seem to distort the seal
>>> (also
>>> not easy to discern).
>>>
>>> 2. The real problem is that when I tighten those hanger bolts, I get a
>> very
>>> loud bearing noise in that hanger bearing when I spin the axle by hand.
>> I'm
>>> expecting some roughness provided by the rattling of the gears in the
>> final
>>> drive, but this sound was definitely coming from the hanger bearing.
>>> That
>>> bearing is new, and smooth as butter when not bolted up to anything.
>> When I
>>> hold the hanger in what seems to be the best position but don't tighten
>> it,
>>> I get what I think is only final-drive noise when I spin the axle.
>>>
>>> Yes, I have filled the final drive with gear oil.
>>>
>>> Manny had never experienced this issue before, but these hangers come
>> from
>>> salvage yards and be slightly tweaked if the car was wrecked in a way
>> that
>>> affected the right front wheel.
>>>
>>> So, possibilities: A. The hanger isn't quite straight straight, and
>>> it's
>>> not holding the bearing square with the axle. B. The hanger is too
>>> close
>> to
>>> the final drive (or the bearing isn't seated all the way in the hanger)
>> and
>>> it's binding axially. C. The slinger (inside dust cover) is rubbing on
>>> something and ringing when the hanger is tightened.
>>>
>>> Questions:
>>>
>>> Has anybody experienced this issue?
>>>
>>> Does anybody know if there is a standard piece of pipe that I can use
>>> to
>>> press against the slinger that covers the inside of the bearing? Or any
>>> other advice on how to reseat the bearing? The manual calls for a
>>> special
>>> tool, but it just looks like a piece of pipe that fits over the axle in
>>> a
>>> press that bears on the recessed part of the slinger that pushes
>>> directly
>>> on the bearing.
>>>
>>> Manny suggested that I could move the axle to the old hanger (they are
>> all
>>> the same), given that I have a press, but I can't see how to get the
>>> slinger over the larger diameter of the seal race and spline on the
>>> final-drive end, and I think that slinger is just sheet metal that is
>>> crimped on the axle when the right pressing tool is used. Or, I'm
>>> missing
>>> some obvious point about how it's attached. The slinger covers the
>> retainer
>>> to provide a dust shield for the bearing seal. I'm just not sure I
>>> won't
>>> mess up what I have. He also suggested that I could "adjust" the hanger
>> so
>>> that it hangs at the right place, but my attempts to do that have not
>>> solved the problem. I even wondered if I could put a thin washer under
>> the
>>> hanger, but I don't know what the axial tolerance is supposed to be.
>>>
>>> Alternative is to ask Manny to ship me a replacement 3.21 FD
>> intermediate
>>> axle if he has one available, and send this one back for his far more
>>> expert inspection.
>>>
>>> Rick "advice welcome" Denney
>>>
>>> --
>>> '73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
>>> Northern Virginia
>>> Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> --
> Rick Denney
> 73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
> Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org


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Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Intermediate Axle questions [message #322516 is a reply to message #322513] Tue, 22 August 2017 22:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Henderson is currently offline  Ken Henderson   United States
Messages: 7216
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 40
Senior Member
Rick,

I can't find a picture tonight. I'll make one tomorrow and send it.

In the meantime, if anyone else knows what I'm talking about, and have an
extra, let Rick know.

Many of them are missing, whether by loss or design, I don't know. I know
I didn't have one for a long time and didn't notice any difference when I
added it, but this MAY be an example of when it's needed.

Ken H.


On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 10:13 PM, Richard Denney wrote:

> What strut? I don't have anything like what you are describing even on my
> 3.07. The axle assembly includes the axle (flange and shaft), bracket (what
> I've been calling the hanger), the bolt-on retainer, the bearing sandwiched
> between the bracket and the retainer, and the pressed-on slinger. The
> bracket bolts to the side of the block with 7/16 screws and large, special
> washers. One of them has an addition stud for the horse-collar bracket. I
> don't see anything else connecting the bracket in the right with the final
> drive on the left.
>
> Rick "pictures?" Denney
>
> On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 8:08 PM Ken Henderson
> wrote:
>
>> Rick,
>>
>> I have zero experience with the 3.21. But one idea popped into my mind:
>> Do you have the strut that connects the final drive to the stub axle
>> hanger? Or is one even used with the 3.21? Seems to me that the
> presence
>> of that strut would help to position the hanger properly, at least
> against
>> lateral movement which might result when you tighten the bolts into the
>> engine.
>>
>> Ken H.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 3:40 PM, Richard Denney
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry, I can't think of any way to present this briefly.
>>>
>>> After installing the new final drive, and reinstalling all the stuff I
>> had
>>> had to remove, my last step was installing the intermediate axle, which
>>> extends from the final drive through a hanger that bolts to the
> starboard
>>> side of the block, and provides the flange for the starboard half-shaft
>> to
>>> bolt to. This axle just inserts into the final drive, and the spline
>>> engages the spider (or, in the case of this rebuilt 3.21, the planetary
>>> gear). The manual says to adjust it around to find the middle of play,
>> and
>>> then tighten the two bolts that hold that hanger in place good'n'tight
>> (50
>>> foot-pounds). Those bolts have specially hardened and thick serrated
>>> washers to hold the hanger in that position.
>>>
>>> I anticipated this would be easy, but, of course, it's the easy stuff
>> that
>>> surprises us.
>>>
>>> 1. I can't find the middle position--the play accommodated all extremes
>> of
>>> the holes in the hanger. I looked for a position that provided easiest
>>> rotation (not easy to discern) and didn't seem to distort the seal
> (also
>>> not easy to discern).
>>>
>>> 2. The real problem is that when I tighten those hanger bolts, I get a
>> very
>>> loud bearing noise in that hanger bearing when I spin the axle by hand.
>> I'm
>>> expecting some roughness provided by the rattling of the gears in the
>> final
>>> drive, but this sound was definitely coming from the hanger bearing.
> That
>>> bearing is new, and smooth as butter when not bolted up to anything.
>> When I
>>> hold the hanger in what seems to be the best position but don't tighten
>> it,
>>> I get what I think is only final-drive noise when I spin the axle.
>>>
>>> Yes, I have filled the final drive with gear oil.
>>>
>>> Manny had never experienced this issue before, but these hangers come
>> from
>>> salvage yards and be slightly tweaked if the car was wrecked in a way
>> that
>>> affected the right front wheel.
>>>
>>> So, possibilities: A. The hanger isn't quite straight straight, and
> it's
>>> not holding the bearing square with the axle. B. The hanger is too
> close
>> to
>>> the final drive (or the bearing isn't seated all the way in the hanger)
>> and
>>> it's binding axially. C. The slinger (inside dust cover) is rubbing on
>>> something and ringing when the hanger is tightened.
>>>
>>> Questions:
>>>
>>> Has anybody experienced this issue?
>>>
>>> Does anybody know if there is a standard piece of pipe that I can use
> to
>>> press against the slinger that covers the inside of the bearing? Or any
>>> other advice on how to reseat the bearing? The manual calls for a
> special
>>> tool, but it just looks like a piece of pipe that fits over the axle
> in a
>>> press that bears on the recessed part of the slinger that pushes
> directly
>>> on the bearing.
>>>
>>> Manny suggested that I could move the axle to the old hanger (they are
>> all
>>> the same), given that I have a press, but I can't see how to get the
>>> slinger over the larger diameter of the seal race and spline on the
>>> final-drive end, and I think that slinger is just sheet metal that is
>>> crimped on the axle when the right pressing tool is used. Or, I'm
> missing
>>> some obvious point about how it's attached. The slinger covers the
>> retainer
>>> to provide a dust shield for the bearing seal. I'm just not sure I
> won't
>>> mess up what I have. He also suggested that I could "adjust" the hanger
>> so
>>> that it hangs at the right place, but my attempts to do that have not
>>> solved the problem. I even wondered if I could put a thin washer under
>> the
>>> hanger, but I don't know what the axial tolerance is supposed to be.
>>>
>>> Alternative is to ask Manny to ship me a replacement 3.21 FD
>> intermediate
>>> axle if he has one available, and send this one back for his far more
>>> expert inspection.
>>>
>>> Rick "advice welcome" Denney
>>>
>>> --
>>> '73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
>>> Northern Virginia
>>> Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> --
> Rick Denney
> 73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
> Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Intermediate Axle questions [message #322517 is a reply to message #322515] Tue, 22 August 2017 22:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard Denney is currently offline  Richard Denney   United States
Messages: 554
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 2
Senior Member
With that clue, I found this:

http://www.caddydaddy.com/1967-1969-cadillac-eldorado-final-drive-output-shaft-flange-front-drive-axle.html

The bracket I have doesn't have a hole for the outboard end of that strut,
although it looks like it uses one of the retainer bolts plus an additional
alignment bolt.

Rick "wondering if this could be fabricated" Denney

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 11:08 PM Gary Kosier wrote:

> Rick,
> ''It's because that strut is only used on the Eldorado.
>
> Gary Kosier
> 77PB w/500Cad
>
--
Rick Denney
73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
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Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Intermediate Axle questions [message #322525 is a reply to message #322517] Wed, 23 August 2017 06:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Henderson is currently offline  Ken Henderson   United States
Messages: 7216
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 40
Senior Member
Yep, the 6.056 brace is the one I was talking about.

Might know we'd have to have Gary to explain it.

While your problem is obviously more fundamental than that, it may be worth
the minor effort to fabricate and install one. If it helps, at least it
may give you a clue to the correct solution.

Do you want me to remove mine and measure it for you?


Ken H.


On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 11:36 PM, Richard Denney wrote:

> With that clue, I found this:
>
> http://www.caddydaddy.com/1967-1969-cadillac-eldorado-
> final-drive-output-shaft-flange-front-drive-axle.html
>
> The bracket I have doesn't have a hole for the outboard end of that strut,
> although it looks like it uses one of the retainer bolts plus an additional
> alignment bolt.
>
> Rick "wondering if this could be fabricated" Denney
>
> On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 11:08 PM Gary Kosier
> wrote:
>
>> Rick,
>> ''It's because that strut is only used on the Eldorado.
>>
>> Gary Kosier
>> 77PB w/500Cad
>>
> --
> Rick Denney
> 73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
> Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Intermediate Axle questions [message #322526 is a reply to message #322525] Wed, 23 August 2017 07:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard Denney is currently offline  Richard Denney   United States
Messages: 554
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 2
Senior Member
I wonder if Gary (or Manny) has one lying around in his stash. Seems a lot
of trouble to remove one just to measure it.

Given that this strut only appeared on Eldorados, and given that only
(some) Eldorados used the 3.21, and given that the shaft is different with
that FD, I wonder if the struts are the same for the 455 application. Do we
know that the blocks have the same width across those mounting points?
Manny tells me the brackets are the same, but I see an extra mounting hole
for that strut in the picture I linked, so I suspect that Cadillac dropped
the use of this strut just like GMC did for the motorhome. I know that the
3.21 has been used pretty routinely with 455's, but I've never heard talk
of this strut before.

Maybe if you could measure the critical distance between the bracket and
some reliable point on the final drive, I could use that to validate the
straightness of the bracket once installed. If the measurement is correct,
then there is no need for the strut, it seems to me. My suspicion is they
used it for a while and then decided it wasn't really necessary.

How in the world did you end up with one on your motorhome? Have you always
had it? I don't see any hint of it in X-7425, looking at Figure 4, Page
3C-4.

I won't be back at the coach until tomorrow night at the earliest, or
probably Friday night or Saturday morning. (The grass still needs to be
mowed and the coach is an hour away.) If I can't get this resolved
immediately, I'm going to do other things (like putting in the front end,
and dropping the tanks) while this waits for resolution. I'm going to give
Manny a call today to discuss it. But I need to have this all done by Labor
Day weekend, and I'm traveling next week and the following week.

Rick "a little early in San Jose" Denney



On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 7:49 AM, Ken Henderson
wrote:

> Yep, the 6.056 brace is the one I was talking about.
>
> Might know we'd have to have Gary to explain it.
>
> While your problem is obviously more fundamental than that, it may be worth
> the minor effort to fabricate and install one. If it helps, at least it
> may give you a clue to the correct solution.
>
> Do you want me to remove mine and measure it for you?
>
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 11:36 PM, Richard Denney
> wrote:
>
>> With that clue, I found this:
>>
>> http://www.caddydaddy.com/1967-1969-cadillac-eldorado-
>> final-drive-output-shaft-flange-front-drive-axle.html
>>
>> The bracket I have doesn't have a hole for the outboard end of that
> strut,
>> although it looks like it uses one of the retainer bolts plus an
> additional
>> alignment bolt.
>>
>> Rick "wondering if this could be fabricated" Denney
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 11:08 PM Gary Kosier
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Rick,
>>> ''It's because that strut is only used on the Eldorado.
>>>
>>> Gary Kosier
>>> 77PB w/500Cad
>>>
>> --
>> Rick Denney
>> 73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
>> Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>



--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
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Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Intermediate Axle questions [message #322527 is a reply to message #322526] Wed, 23 August 2017 07:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Henderson is currently offline  Ken Henderson   United States
Messages: 7216
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 40
Senior Member
Darned if I know how I wound up with the brace on mine -- the facts are
lost somewhere in my now-murky past. I know I wasn't surprised to find it,
so at some time or another I saw one and thought I was supposed to have one.

AFAIK before getting under the coach, there's only one place to measure --
from the hole in the bracket to the threaded hole in the FD. Question is,
do you have the hole in the FD?

As far as the profile of the brace, it's basically straight except for the
90* bend at the bracket end. It's not flat stock but stamped to provide
greater rigidity with thinner material. I'd probably use 1/4" bar stock if
I were making one (though 1/8" might be enough).

I'll get to the shop after breakfast.

Ken


On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 8:17 AM, Richard Denney wrote:

> I wonder if Gary (or Manny) has one lying around in his stash. Seems a lot
> of trouble to remove one just to measure it.
>
> Given that this strut only appeared on Eldorados, and given that only
> (some) Eldorados used the 3.21, and given that the shaft is different with
> that FD, I wonder if the struts are the same for the 455 application. Do we
> know that the blocks have the same width across those mounting points?
> Manny tells me the brackets are the same, but I see an extra mounting hole
> for that strut in the picture I linked, so I suspect that Cadillac dropped
> the use of this strut just like GMC did for the motorhome. I know that the
> 3.21 has been used pretty routinely with 455's, but I've never heard talk
> of this strut before.
>
> Maybe if you could measure the critical distance between the bracket and
> some reliable point on the final drive, I could use that to validate the
> straightness of the bracket once installed. If the measurement is correct,
> then there is no need for the strut, it seems to me. My suspicion is they
> used it for a while and then decided it wasn't really necessary.
>
> How in the world did you end up with one on your motorhome? Have you always
> had it? I don't see any hint of it in X-7425, looking at Figure 4, Page
> 3C-4.
>
> I won't be back at the coach until tomorrow night at the earliest, or
> probably Friday night or Saturday morning. (The grass still needs to be
> mowed and the coach is an hour away.) If I can't get this resolved
> immediately, I'm going to do other things (like putting in the front end,
> and dropping the tanks) while this waits for resolution. I'm going to give
> Manny a call today to discuss it. But I need to have this all done by Labor
> Day weekend, and I'm traveling next week and the following week.
>
> Rick "a little early in San Jose" Denney
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 7:49 AM, Ken Henderson
> wrote:
>
>> Yep, the 6.056 brace is the one I was talking about.
>>
>> Might know we'd have to have Gary to explain it.
>>
>> While your problem is obviously more fundamental than that, it may be
> worth
>> the minor effort to fabricate and install one. If it helps, at least it
>> may give you a clue to the correct solution.
>>
>> Do you want me to remove mine and measure it for you?
>>
>>
>> Ken H.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 11:36 PM, Richard Denney
>> wrote:
>>
>>> With that clue, I found this:
>>>
>>> http://www.caddydaddy.com/1967-1969-cadillac-eldorado-
>>> final-drive-output-shaft-flange-front-drive-axle.html
>>>
>>> The bracket I have doesn't have a hole for the outboard end of that
>> strut,
>>> although it looks like it uses one of the retainer bolts plus an
>> additional
>>> alignment bolt.
>>>
>>> Rick "wondering if this could be fabricated" Denney
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 11:08 PM Gary Kosier
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Rick,
>>>> ''It's because that strut is only used on the Eldorado.
>>>>
>>>> Gary Kosier
>>>> 77PB w/500Cad
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Rick Denney
>>> 73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
>>> Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> '73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
> Northern Virginia
> Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Intermediate Axle questions [message #322530 is a reply to message #322526] Wed, 23 August 2017 08:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15324
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 41
Senior Member
Denny,

I can't attach photos to GMC net emails so I'm sending a file to your email "Olds Toronado 3.21 FD" which shows that the 66 & 67
Olds had the bracket as well.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces-AT-list-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org] On Behalf Of Richard Denney
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 10:17 PM
To: gmclist-AT-list-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Intermediate Axle questions

I wonder if Gary (or Manny) has one lying around in his stash. Seems a lot
of trouble to remove one just to measure it.

Given that this strut only appeared on Eldorados, and given that only
(some) Eldorados used the 3.21, and given that the shaft is different with
that FD, I wonder if the struts are the same for the 455 application. Do we
know that the blocks have the same width across those mounting points?
Manny tells me the brackets are the same, but I see an extra mounting hole
for that strut in the picture I linked, so I suspect that Cadillac dropped
the use of this strut just like GMC did for the motorhome. I know that the
3.21 has been used pretty routinely with 455's, but I've never heard talk
of this strut before.

Maybe if you could measure the critical distance between the bracket and
some reliable point on the final drive, I could use that to validate the
straightness of the bracket once installed. If the measurement is correct,
then there is no need for the strut, it seems to me. My suspicion is they
used it for a while and then decided it wasn't really necessary.

How in the world did you end up with one on your motorhome? Have you always
had it? I don't see any hint of it in X-7425, looking at Figure 4, Page
3C-4.

I won't be back at the coach until tomorrow night at the earliest, or
probably Friday night or Saturday morning. (The grass still needs to be
mowed and the coach is an hour away.) If I can't get this resolved
immediately, I'm going to do other things (like putting in the front end,
and dropping the tanks) while this waits for resolution. I'm going to give
Manny a call today to discuss it. But I need to have this all done by Labor
Day weekend, and I'm traveling next week and the following week.

Rick "a little early in San Jose" Denney



On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 7:49 AM, Ken Henderson
wrote:

> Yep, the 6.056 brace is the one I was talking about.
>
> Might know we'd have to have Gary to explain it.
>
> While your problem is obviously more fundamental than that, it may be worth
> the minor effort to fabricate and install one. If it helps, at least it
> may give you a clue to the correct solution.
>
> Do you want me to remove mine and measure it for you?
>
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 11:36 PM, Richard Denney
> wrote:
>
>> With that clue, I found this:
>>
>> http://www.caddydaddy.com/1967-1969-cadillac-eldorado-
>> final-drive-output-shaft-flange-front-drive-axle.html
>>
>> The bracket I have doesn't have a hole for the outboard end of that
> strut,
>> although it looks like it uses one of the retainer bolts plus an
> additional
>> alignment bolt.
>>
>> Rick "wondering if this could be fabricated" Denney
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 11:08 PM Gary Kosier
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Rick,
>>> ''It's because that strut is only used on the Eldorado.
>>>
>>> Gary Kosier
>>> 77PB w/500Cad
>>>
>> --
>> Rick Denney
>> 73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
>> Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>



--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Intermediate Axle questions [message #322531 is a reply to message #322530] Wed, 23 August 2017 08:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard Denney is currently offline  Richard Denney   United States
Messages: 554
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 2
Senior Member
Rob, I'll look for it. I didn't think the 3.21 was ever used in the
Toronado, but I probably made that conclusion based on noisy data.

But it confirms the notion that they used it initially, and then concluded
that they really didn't need it and dropped it.

As Ken says, I'm sure that's not my problem, but it may help identify the
problem. But first I'm going to study the bracket in comparison with the
old one, and make sure everything is square and fully seated.

The bearing is a symmetrical ball bearing which cannot tolerate being
off-axis without binding, so the bracket has to be at right angles to the
axle. I'm betting that's the problem, but Sunday evening in an unfamiliar
shop wasn't when I was in the frame of mind to really contemplate it with
sufficient care. The problem is that bending the bracket without taking the
axle and bearing out of it isn't easy.

Another possibility is that the bracket is pushing the axle too far into
the final drive and binding, but I can test that a different way, now that
I think about it, when I get back to the coach.

Rick "a little surprised that this bearing hasn't been a failure point of
enough note to have a real presence in the archives" Denney

On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 9:33 AM, Rob Mueller
wrote:

> Denny,
>
> I can't attach photos to GMC net emails so I'm sending a file to your
> email "Olds Toronado 3.21 FD" which shows that the 66 & 67
> Olds had the bracket as well.
>
>

--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
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Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Intermediate Axle questions [message #322533 is a reply to message #322527] Wed, 23 August 2017 08:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard Denney is currently offline  Richard Denney   United States
Messages: 554
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 2
Senior Member
I don't know if I have the threaded hole. I'm not visualizing it
immediately, but it would seem to me that the 3.21 was only made during the
time that both Cadillac and Oldsmobile used it (based on Rob's data), so I
would have thought they all had it. I don't recall an unused threaded hole,
but I wasn't looking for one, either.

I was planning to use a piece of 1/8" flat bar. It seems to me that if
tightened the bracket causes that bar to be insufficient (or maybe to need
the thing in the first place), the bracket needs to be straightened. Given
that GM decided it wasn't needed, I'd prefer not to use it except to
identify the problem.

Rick "FD is an hour away until the weekend" Denney

On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 8:36 AM, Ken Henderson
wrote:

> Darned if I know how I wound up with the brace on mine -- the facts are
> lost somewhere in my now-murky past. I know I wasn't surprised to find it,
> so at some time or another I saw one and thought I was supposed to have
> one.
>
> AFAIK before getting under the coach, there's only one place to measure --
> from the hole in the bracket to the threaded hole in the FD. Question is,
> do you have the hole in the FD?
>
> As far as the profile of the brace, it's basically straight except for the
> 90* bend at the bracket end. It's not flat stock but stamped to provide
> greater rigidity with thinner material. I'd probably use 1/4" bar stock if
> I were making one (though 1/8" might be enough).
>
> I'll get to the shop after breakfast.
>
> Ken
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 8:17 AM, Richard Denney
> wrote:
>
>> I wonder if Gary (or Manny) has one lying around in his stash. Seems a
> lot
>> of trouble to remove one just to measure it.
>>
>> Given that this strut only appeared on Eldorados, and given that only
>> (some) Eldorados used the 3.21, and given that the shaft is different
> with
>> that FD, I wonder if the struts are the same for the 455 application. Do
> we
>> know that the blocks have the same width across those mounting points?
>> Manny tells me the brackets are the same, but I see an extra mounting
> hole
>> for that strut in the picture I linked, so I suspect that Cadillac
> dropped
>> the use of this strut just like GMC did for the motorhome. I know that
> the
>> 3.21 has been used pretty routinely with 455's, but I've never heard talk
>> of this strut before.
>>
>> Maybe if you could measure the critical distance between the bracket and
>> some reliable point on the final drive, I could use that to validate the
>> straightness of the bracket once installed. If the measurement is
> correct,
>> then there is no need for the strut, it seems to me. My suspicion is they
>> used it for a while and then decided it wasn't really necessary.
>>
>> How in the world did you end up with one on your motorhome? Have you
> always
>> had it? I don't see any hint of it in X-7425, looking at Figure 4, Page
>> 3C-4.
>>
>> I won't be back at the coach until tomorrow night at the earliest, or
>> probably Friday night or Saturday morning. (The grass still needs to be
>> mowed and the coach is an hour away.) If I can't get this resolved
>> immediately, I'm going to do other things (like putting in the front end,
>> and dropping the tanks) while this waits for resolution. I'm going to
> give
>> Manny a call today to discuss it. But I need to have this all done by
> Labor
>> Day weekend, and I'm traveling next week and the following week.
>>
>> Rick "a little early in San Jose" Denney
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 7:49 AM, Ken Henderson
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yep, the 6.056 brace is the one I was talking about.
>>>
>>> Might know we'd have to have Gary to explain it.
>>>
>>> While your problem is obviously more fundamental than that, it may be
>> worth
>>> the minor effort to fabricate and install one. If it helps, at least
> it
>>> may give you a clue to the correct solution.
>>>
>>> Do you want me to remove mine and measure it for you?
>>>
>>>
>>> Ken H.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 11:36 PM, Richard Denney
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> With that clue, I found this:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.caddydaddy.com/1967-1969-cadillac-eldorado-
>>>> final-drive-output-shaft-flange-front-drive-axle.html
>>>>
>>>> The bracket I have doesn't have a hole for the outboard end of that
>>> strut,
>>>> although it looks like it uses one of the retainer bolts plus an
>>> additional
>>>> alignment bolt.
>>>>
>>>> Rick "wondering if this could be fabricated" Denney
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 11:08 PM Gary Kosier >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Rick,
>>>> > ''It's because that strut is only used on the Eldorado.
>>>> >
>>>> > Gary Kosier
>>>> > 77PB w/500Cad
>>>> >
>>>> --
>>>> Rick Denney
>>>> 73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
>>>> Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> '73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
>> Northern Virginia
>> Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>



--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
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Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Intermediate Axle questions [message #322537 is a reply to message #322495] Wed, 23 August 2017 09:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JohnL455 is currently offline  JohnL455   United States
Messages: 2941
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 16
Senior Member
Once while under coach with grease gun, I noticed the 3 bolts that hold the bearing retainer cover in the support were loose. I think these were 1/2" or there about. Wondering if you loosen those three if it allows the bearing to float and self align as a test to see if the problem stops. This may isolalate the issue to outside the final drive or not. Was it John Biwersi that did the 3.21 seminar? Cus I got a 3.42 and that's all I know.

John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Intermediate Axle questions [message #322538 is a reply to message #322533] Wed, 23 August 2017 09:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kosier is currently offline  Kosier   United States
Messages: 754
Registered: February 2008
Karma: 1
Senior Member
Rick,

Here's all the info as best can find. The brace is GM part #397480. In
the thru-75
Cadillac parts manual it is listed as fitting 68-75 Eldos. Oddly enough,
the bolt for
the end is listed as 67-75. In the 76-81 parts manual, there is no mention
of the
brace, although I know it was used on at least 76-78. I have a half-dozen
RH output
shafts and the Cadillac brackets have a mounting ear for the brace while the
Olds
brackets have none. I do have a shaft for an Olds 3.21 and it's different,
but not like
the Caddy. So I will conclude you never had the brace.

Gary Kosier who's almost as pedantic as Rob Mueller
77PB w/500Cad
Newark, Ohio

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Richard Denney"
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 9:50 AM
To:
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Intermediate Axle questions

> I don't know if I have the threaded hole. I'm not visualizing it
> immediately, but it would seem to me that the 3.21 was only made during
> the
> time that both Cadillac and Oldsmobile used it (based on Rob's data), so I
> would have thought they all had it. I don't recall an unused threaded
> hole,
> but I wasn't looking for one, either.
>
> I was planning to use a piece of 1/8" flat bar. It seems to me that if
> tightened the bracket causes that bar to be insufficient (or maybe to need
> the thing in the first place), the bracket needs to be straightened. Given
> that GM decided it wasn't needed, I'd prefer not to use it except to
> identify the problem.
>
> Rick "FD is an hour away until the weekend" Denney
>
> On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 8:36 AM, Ken Henderson
> wrote:
>
>> Darned if I know how I wound up with the brace on mine -- the facts are
>> lost somewhere in my now-murky past. I know I wasn't surprised to find
>> it,
>> so at some time or another I saw one and thought I was supposed to have
>> one.
>>
>> AFAIK before getting under the coach, there's only one place to
>> measure --
>> from the hole in the bracket to the threaded hole in the FD. Question
>> is,
>> do you have the hole in the FD?
>>
>> As far as the profile of the brace, it's basically straight except for
>> the
>> 90* bend at the bracket end. It's not flat stock but stamped to provide
>> greater rigidity with thinner material. I'd probably use 1/4" bar stock
>> if
>> I were making one (though 1/8" might be enough).
>>
>> I'll get to the shop after breakfast.
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 8:17 AM, Richard Denney
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder if Gary (or Manny) has one lying around in his stash. Seems a
>> lot
>>> of trouble to remove one just to measure it.
>>>
>>> Given that this strut only appeared on Eldorados, and given that only
>>> (some) Eldorados used the 3.21, and given that the shaft is different
>> with
>>> that FD, I wonder if the struts are the same for the 455 application.
>>> Do
>> we
>>> know that the blocks have the same width across those mounting points?
>>> Manny tells me the brackets are the same, but I see an extra mounting
>> hole
>>> for that strut in the picture I linked, so I suspect that Cadillac
>> dropped
>>> the use of this strut just like GMC did for the motorhome. I know that
>> the
>>> 3.21 has been used pretty routinely with 455's, but I've never heard
>>> talk
>>> of this strut before.
>>>
>>> Maybe if you could measure the critical distance between the bracket
>>> and
>>> some reliable point on the final drive, I could use that to validate
>>> the
>>> straightness of the bracket once installed. If the measurement is
>> correct,
>>> then there is no need for the strut, it seems to me. My suspicion is
>>> they
>>> used it for a while and then decided it wasn't really necessary.
>>>
>>> How in the world did you end up with one on your motorhome? Have you
>> always
>>> had it? I don't see any hint of it in X-7425, looking at Figure 4, Page
>>> 3C-4.
>>>
>>> I won't be back at the coach until tomorrow night at the earliest, or
>>> probably Friday night or Saturday morning. (The grass still needs to be
>>> mowed and the coach is an hour away.) If I can't get this resolved
>>> immediately, I'm going to do other things (like putting in the front
>>> end,
>>> and dropping the tanks) while this waits for resolution. I'm going to
>> give
>>> Manny a call today to discuss it. But I need to have this all done by
>> Labor
>>> Day weekend, and I'm traveling next week and the following week.
>>>
>>> Rick "a little early in San Jose" Denney
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 7:49 AM, Ken Henderson
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yep, the 6.056 brace is the one I was talking about.
>>>>
>>>> Might know we'd have to have Gary to explain it.
>>>>
>>>> While your problem is obviously more fundamental than that, it may be
>>> worth
>>>> the minor effort to fabricate and install one. If it helps, at least
>> it
>>>> may give you a clue to the correct solution.
>>>>
>>>> Do you want me to remove mine and measure it for you?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ken H.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 11:36 PM, Richard Denney
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > With that clue, I found this:
>>>> >
>>>> > http://www.caddydaddy.com/1967-1969-cadillac-eldorado-
>>>> > final-drive-output-shaft-flange-front-drive-axle.html
>>>> >
>>>> > The bracket I have doesn't have a hole for the outboard end of that
>>>> strut,
>>>> > although it looks like it uses one of the retainer bolts plus an
>>>> additional
>>>> > alignment bolt.
>>>> >
>>>> > Rick "wondering if this could be fabricated" Denney
>>>> >
>>>> > On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 11:08 PM Gary Kosier
>>>> > >>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > > Rick,
>>>> > > ''It's because that strut is only used on the Eldorado.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Gary Kosier
>>>> > > 77PB w/500Cad
>>>> > >
>>>> > --
>>>> > Rick Denney
>>>> > 73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
>>>> > Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > GMCnet mailing list
>>>> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>> >
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> '73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
>>> Northern Virginia
>>> Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> '73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
> Northern Virginia
> Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org


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Re: [GMCnet] Final Drive Intermediate Axle questions [message #322539 is a reply to message #322538] Wed, 23 August 2017 10:54 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Ken Henderson is currently offline  Ken Henderson   United States
Messages: 7216
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 40
Senior Member
Rick,

Here's the photo:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3XquSIYjDleN2cydTlUMGpaZl9kaEdfNUZ2TklKQ3lCanA0/view?usp=sharing

Notice that the hex heads are parallel, so I measured 7-7/8" side to
same-side of those. The distance from the center of the outboard bolt to
the inboard side of the bearing bracket. Both of those, like the photo,
are from-the-creeper since the rack's preoccupied with a guest.

As Gary noted, the Eldorado's bracket has a tab to bolt the brace to; your
Olds' probably does not -- like the parts list you found.

Was I you, I'd probably probably bend the 90* on one end of a piece of bar
stock "just too long for the job", and bolt the brace to the bracket. At
the FD end I'd clamp it in place with a C-clamp for trouble shooting. If I
found a position that cured the problem, I'd mark and drill, cut, and bolt
the brace in that position. And hope.

JWID,

Ken H.

​PS: When are you Phorum guys gonna go back to the practice of trimming
the threads before posting? Us eMailers wind up with umpty-lebn copies of
every reply when you don't. We do need a tidbit to remind us of what the
conversation was though. KH​
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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