Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] That $@@(&&)! Final Drive bracket!
| [GMCnet] That $@@(&&)! Final Drive bracket! [message #321729] |
Sun, 06 August 2017 20:59  |
Richard Denney
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 9
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So, what is the magic trick for removing the final drive?
I have all the bolts out (except one at top I left in loosely for safety)
and removed the steering stabilizer and its bracket (Ken will remember how
that interfered with us during transmission installation). I removed the
long bolt on the top bracket, and the bolts holding in the stub axle.
But the hood on that upper bracket wraps over the top of the FD case,
preventing it from sliding forward to separate from the transmission. I
know that those in the know cut that hood off, and Manny sent me a new
bracket that doesn't have it. The aft bolt holding that bracket to the
engine block is defeating me, but do you remove that (somehow) and that
blasted power steering lower bracket and leave the bracket on the FD case?
People change final drives routinely without messing with the transmission,
so I know there's a trick I'm missing. Do you pull the stub axle and rotate
the case around to clear that top bracket?
Rick "whose front end parts are all removed and ready for new stuff, but
wants the new final drive in first" Denney
--
Rick Denney
73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
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| Re: [GMCnet] That $@@(&&)! Final Drive bracket! [message #321741 is a reply to message #321729] |
Mon, 07 August 2017 06:41  |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
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I just helped out an expert change out a final drive two weeks ago. He did not remove that bracket, and did not change anything from factory(took out and teinstalled that bolt I think you are talking about). I say "think" because there was little trouble in the whole process, but we were also doing it under the coach on a lift.
His secret was a modified socket. He either machined or grinded a 3/8" drive socket for that bolt into a bell shape. The end that the extension entered in was thin and tapered up to the en for bolt. A wobbly extension and that socket took that bolt right out with no struggle. The headers he said get in the way, and you need to use a 3/8 to 1/4 adaptor and an 1/4" extension to work with headers.
The bracket was loose, but nit removed and the final drive came out and went right in with no real issue.
Axles were strapped as far out of the way as he could get them.
With lift the final drive was in and out in like 2 hours??
I watched because I need to change my own noisy final soon.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: [GMCnet] That $@@(&&)! Final Drive bracket! [message #321742 is a reply to message #321729] |
Mon, 07 August 2017 06:42 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Rick,
It's been so long since I R&R'd a FD with an Olds engine that I can't speak
with authority. However, IIRC, it was necessary to remove the plate
attached to the side of the engine block rather than just the bracket
across the top of the FD. When we did the FD on the Cad last week, we had
to rotate the FD about the pinon axis, but that was, I think, because of my
custom front engine mount. It may make removal easier if you remove the FD
cover.
Good luck; maybe next day will get off to a good start with the FD and be
less frustrating.
Ken H.
On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 9:59 PM, Richard Denney wrote:
> So, what is the magic trick for removing the final drive?
>
> I have all the bolts out (except one at top I left in loosely for safety)
> and removed the steering stabilizer and its bracket (Ken will remember how
> that interfered with us during transmission installation). I removed the
> long bolt on the top bracket, and the bolts holding in the stub axle.
>
> But the hood on that upper bracket wraps over the top of the FD case,
> preventing it from sliding forward to separate from the transmission. I
> know that those in the know cut that hood off, and Manny sent me a new
> bracket that doesn't have it. The aft bolt holding that bracket to the
> engine block is defeating me, but do you remove that (somehow) and that
> blasted power steering lower bracket and leave the bracket on the FD case?
>
> People change final drives routinely without messing with the transmission,
> so I know there's a trick I'm missing. Do you pull the stub axle and rotate
> the case around to clear that top bracket?
>
> Rick "whose front end parts are all removed and ready for new stuff, but
> wants the new final drive in first" Denney
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] That $@@(&&)! Final Drive bracket! [message #321744 is a reply to message #321729] |
Mon, 07 August 2017 07:02 |
Richard Denney
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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After studying 7425 for a bit, I noted that the official factory line is to
just loosen the aft engine-block bolt on the FD upper bracket, and remove
the long bolt and the forward engine block bolt. Then, the bracket can be
tilted up to provide clearance. That still means removing my ultimate
nemesis, the power-steering bracket, which also uses that forward bolt. I
might be able to get a wrench on it to just loosen it.
It took two wrenches of different designs--one with a lateral bend and one
with an offset--to get the block-side bolt on the FD, but I was expecting
that. Those GM engineers worked out all the details of this arrangement,
but maintainability, as usual, wasn't high in their list of requirements to
fulfill.
I'm using a scissors-style transmission jack for the lowering of the FD,
and I really do hope that works. My wife's uncle had bought it from HF, so
the first thing I had to do was fix it. He's telling everyone he's ahead on
the transaction because he got his jack fixed.
Rick "who'd still like to hear how people get their FD out and in" Denney
On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 9:59 PM, Richard Denney wrote:
> So, what is the magic trick for removing the final drive?
>
> I have all the bolts out (except one at top I left in loosely for safety)
> and removed the steering stabilizer and its bracket (Ken will remember how
> that interfered with us during transmission installation). I removed the
> long bolt on the top bracket, and the bolts holding in the stub axle.
>
> But the hood on that upper bracket wraps over the top of the FD case,
> preventing it from sliding forward to separate from the transmission. I
> know that those in the know cut that hood off, and Manny sent me a new
> bracket that doesn't have it. The aft bolt holding that bracket to the
> engine block is defeating me, but do you remove that (somehow) and that
> blasted power steering lower bracket and leave the bracket on the FD case?
>
> People change final drives routinely without messing with the
> transmission, so I know there's a trick I'm missing. Do you pull the stub
> axle and rotate the case around to clear that top bracket?
>
> Rick "whose front end parts are all removed and ready for new stuff, but
> wants the new final drive in first" Denney
> --
> Rick Denney
> 73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
> Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
>
--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
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| Re: [GMCnet] That $@@(&&)! Final Drive bracket! [message #321747 is a reply to message #321746] |
Mon, 07 August 2017 08:19 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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I do not have any idea on the covers, if you need to remove or not. I am just saying he had the covers off both final drives when he removed them. (They were both 3.70)
We used a tranny jack(lift style) to raise and lower. I will say having cover off gave a good way to stableize and move the final drive. It was awkward coming out and was a little potential of having it slip out of our hands and drop, but worked out fine.
I took some measurments and I am going to build a final drive support for when I do mine. i envision a horseshoe cut piece of steel, with a couple pins that match up with where the case spreaders will fit. Welded at the correct angle to a flat base.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: [GMCnet] That $@@(&&)! Final Drive bracket! [message #321748 is a reply to message #321742] |
Mon, 07 August 2017 08:31 |
Richard Denney
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Yes, it was probably a mistake to attempt it at the end of the day. I had
gotten a late start on Sunday as it was.
But what had frayed my patience was removing the long bolt on that upper
bracket, which required putting a wrench on the nut while turning the bolt.
That needed me to have a left arm that was four feet long with three
elbows. I did get that one out, but there is only so much patience one has
to spend each day before having to go recharge.
It took me two hours on Saturday to remove the starboard front end parts
(though that included removing a few items on the port side as well,
particularly the wheel. Removing those same parts from the left side took
40 minutes. I didn't even try to pull the halfshaft--I just removed the
upper control arm bolts and folded out the knuckle and upper control arm
together. It came off the halfshaft easily, then. I only wish I'd popped
the lower ball joint before doing that, heh.
Karen's trick in her instructions about using Vice Grips on the outside of
a flare-nut wrench to keep it from spreading was brilliant--I had to do
that to remove the flare on the port side, and used that trick before even
making the attempt on the starboard side. Flare nuts broke loose without
further issue.
On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 7:42 AM, Ken Henderson
wrote:
> ...Good luck; maybe next day will get off to a good start with the FD and
> be
> less frustrating.
>
>
--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
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| Re: [GMCnet] That $@@(&&)! Final Drive bracket! [message #321749 is a reply to message #321747] |
Mon, 07 August 2017 08:38 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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You should remove the cover to align the spline and also to give more clearance.
Yes, you can luck out w/o doing it.
All our techs are instructed to do it with covers off.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 7, 2017, at 6:19 AM, Jon Roche wrote:
>
> I do not have any idea on the covers, if you need to remove or not. I am just saying he had the covers off both final drives when he removed them.
> (They were both 3.70)
>
>
> We used a tranny jack(lift style) to raise and lower. I will say having cover off gave a good way to stableize and move the final drive. It was
> awkward coming out and was a little potential of having it slip out of our hands and drop, but worked out fine.
>
> I took some measurments and I am going to build a final drive support for when I do mine. i envision a horseshoe cut piece of steel, with a couple
> pins that match up with where the case spreaders will fit. Welded at the correct angle to a flat base.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Jon Roche
> 75 palm beach
> St. Cloud, MN
> http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] That $@@(&&)! Final Drive bracket! [message #321756 is a reply to message #321748] |
Mon, 07 August 2017 09:23 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Rick,
While you've got it out, weld the nut onto the bracket for the top,
lateral, 1/2" bolt. Make installation & future removal MUCH easier -- no
second 4' arm needed.
For flare nuts, nothing beats the special V-jawed vice grips Matt told us
about a couple of years ago:
https://www.amazon.com/Tools-VISE-GRIP-Original-Locking-Wrench/dp/B00004SBBE
I've got the 4" and 7" versions & have never had them slip on any nut.
I see that OTC has hex versions, but the $102 cost for a set of 3 means
I'll never even try them -- I think the concept is less sound than that
above anyway.
Ken H.
On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 9:31 AM, Richard Denney wrote:
> Yes, it was probably a mistake to attempt it at the end of the day. I had
> gotten a late start on Sunday as it was.
>
> But what had frayed my patience was removing the long bolt on that upper
> bracket, which required putting a wrench on the nut while turning the bolt.
> That needed me to have a left arm that was four feet long with three
> elbows. I did get that one out, but there is only so much patience one has
> to spend each day before having to go recharge.
>
> It took me two hours on Saturday to remove the starboard front end parts
> (though that included removing a few items on the port side as well,
> particularly the wheel. Removing those same parts from the left side took
> 40 minutes. I didn't even try to pull the halfshaft--I just removed the
> upper control arm bolts and folded out the knuckle and upper control arm
> together. It came off the halfshaft easily, then. I only wish I'd popped
> the lower ball joint before doing that, heh.
>
> Karen's trick in her instructions about using Vice Grips on the outside of
> a flare-nut wrench to keep it from spreading was brilliant--I had to do
> that to remove the flare on the port side, and used that trick before even
> making the attempt on the starboard side. Flare nuts broke loose without
> further issue.
>
> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 7:42 AM, Ken Henderson
> wrote:
>
>> ...Good luck; maybe next day will get off to a good start with the FD and
>> be
>> less frustrating.
>>
>>
> --
> '73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
> Northern Virginia
> Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] That $@@(&&)! Final Drive bracket! [message #321761 is a reply to message #321729] |
Mon, 07 August 2017 09:57 |
skip2
Messages: 544
Registered: September 2011
Location: Winter Haven,FL (center o...
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Don't know it was mentioned, but turn the steering all the way one way, gives it just a little bit more clearance. You might take it out by yourself, gravity is your friend at that point, but it isn't when your going together, you will need a helper especially if your on the ground doing it with The HF tranny jack. I screwed pieces of wood to it, the jack, to make a jig but still had to put it at an angle, wheels toward the tranny off of the ground, to get it past the steering link. Just my experiences from the 2 times I've done it. Remember it has the density of the sun, so be careful.
Skip Hartline
74 Canyon Lands, FiTech,
3.7 FD LSD, Manny Tranny,
Springfield Distributor,
2001 Chevy Tracker Ragtop Towd
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| Re: [GMCnet] That $@@(&&)! Final Drive bracket! [message #321764 is a reply to message #321756] |
Mon, 07 August 2017 10:05 |
Richard Denney
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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I'm proud to say that I had already thought of welding the nut on the
bracket, and probably will do that. I saw a welder at the hangar, and I
suspect putting a good tack on each side of the nut is within even my
skills.
Rick "shopping for V-jawed vice grips" Denney
On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 10:23 AM, Ken Henderson
wrote:
> Rick,
>
> While you've got it out, weld the nut onto the bracket for the top,
> lateral, 1/2" bolt. Make installation & future removal MUCH easier -- no
> second 4' arm needed.
>
> For flare nuts, nothing beats the special V-jawed vice grips Matt told us
> about a couple of years ago:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Tools-VISE-GRIP-Original-Locking-
> Wrench/dp/B00004SBBE
>
> I've got the 4" and 7" versions & have never had them slip on any nut.
>
> I see that OTC has hex versions, but the $102 cost for a set of 3 means
> I'll never even try them -- I think the concept is less sound than that
> above anyway.
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 9:31 AM, Richard Denney wrote:
>
>> Yes, it was probably a mistake to attempt it at the end of the day. I had
>> gotten a late start on Sunday as it was.
>>
>> But what had frayed my patience was removing the long bolt on that upper
>> bracket, which required putting a wrench on the nut while turning the
> bolt.
>> That needed me to have a left arm that was four feet long with three
>> elbows. I did get that one out, but there is only so much patience one
> has
>> to spend each day before having to go recharge.
>>
>> It took me two hours on Saturday to remove the starboard front end parts
>> (though that included removing a few items on the port side as well,
>> particularly the wheel. Removing those same parts from the left side took
>> 40 minutes. I didn't even try to pull the halfshaft--I just removed the
>> upper control arm bolts and folded out the knuckle and upper control arm
>> together. It came off the halfshaft easily, then. I only wish I'd popped
>> the lower ball joint before doing that, heh.
>>
>> Karen's trick in her instructions about using Vice Grips on the outside
> of
>> a flare-nut wrench to keep it from spreading was brilliant--I had to do
>> that to remove the flare on the port side, and used that trick before
> even
>> making the attempt on the starboard side. Flare nuts broke loose without
>> further issue.
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 7:42 AM, Ken Henderson
>> wrote:
>>
>>> ...Good luck; maybe next day will get off to a good start with the FD
> and
>>> be
>>> less frustrating.
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> '73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
>> Northern Virginia
>> Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
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| Re: [GMCnet] That $@@(&&)! Final Drive bracket! [message #322375 is a reply to message #321761] |
Sat, 19 August 2017 20:28 |
Richard Denney
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Skip, in the two weeks I had to wait to get back to the project (during
which I had six flights and five hotel stays), I remembered everything you
wrote except for turning the wheel to one side. Manny reminded me when I
called him today to get advice.
He also said he puts it on his chest and lifts it into place. I was
visualizing what would happen when it didn't line and it slipped and fell
back on my chest. Uh, no. But he did give me confidence to just perch it on
a regular floor jack and push it up there. I had help from a mechanic who
was working with the Redhead's uncle--he operated the jack and I guided it.
I did not remove the pan--Manny had used a Ragusa pan with his magic black
stuff to seal the gasket, and Allen-head bolts to secure it. I didn't want
to break the magic seal, and given the Ragusa pan has a proper drain plug,
I shouldn't ever have to. Spline alignment wasn't a problem as it turned
out.
I did remove the pan on the old one to remove it. The manual suggested just
tilting up the hood on the upper bracket after removing the forward bolt
and loosening the aft bolt that goes into the block. Of course, that
required removing the power steering bracket completely, which is under
that front bolt. I'm convinced that a brake job on the rear would end up
requiring me to remove the power steering pump. I did not reinstall the
hood.
So, the final drive is installed. I have to finish reattaching everything I
had to remove, and then I can start installing the new front end.
Rick "on to the next task" Denney
On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 10:57 AM Skip Hartline
wrote:
> Don't know it was mentioned, but turn the steering all the way one way,
> gives it just a little bit more clearance. You might take it out by
> yourself,
> gravity is your friend at that point, but it isn't when your going
> together, you will need a helper especially if your on the ground doing it
> with The
> HF tranny jack. I screwed pieces of wood to it, the jack, to make a jig
> but still had to put it at an angle, wheels toward the tranny off of the
> ground, to get it past the steering link. Just my experiences from the 2
> times I've done it. Remember it has the density of the sun, so be careful.
>
> Skip Hartline
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Rick Denney
73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
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