Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » My tranny woes (all my fault :()
My tranny woes [message #265389] |
Mon, 03 November 2014 19:31 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565 Registered: July 2012 Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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Some of you may remember that I lost my 1 year old Manny Tranny last month due to low fluid. I suspected my dipstick and today I started getting ready to pull the tranny tomorrow. When I removed the dipstick tube I found this:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p56393-cause-for-my-tranny-fa.html
Obviously, about 1/4 of the O-ring is just plain missing.
Sigh. My bad, my fault, all on me.... Nothing at all to do with Manny other than him selling a transmission to a dumbass.
I have no explanation for why I didn't take 10 minutes and pull the dipstick tube out last summer when I noticed a big transmission fluid leak. Could have saved myself a chunk of change and lot of work.
If I recall correctly, the O-ring was just a basic Harbor Freight O-ring from an assortment box. It should have been high temp Viton. Regardless, the broken O-ring let fluid run out of the tranny when the converter leaked down. The fluid is definitely burned. On a positive note, there is no transmission fluid in the final drive. I was concerned that the mating seals on the 3.21 might have failed.
And when I was removing the cooler lines, one of them self destructed...guerrrrrrr
I think I understand why the tranny temp sensor never got hot. There wasn't enough fluid in the pan to heat it up.
I'll get the tranny out tomorrow and next week take it down to Ken Hendersons and pick up one of the new Manny Trannys that Manny built at Ken's and left there for us poor unfortunate souls in the South that might need one.
So, what can I do to keep this from happening again. I haven't talked to Manny about this but I'm thinking there is bound to be some way to 'know' when the fluid is low while driving. Yes, I'm going to implement a front access dip stick but what if something happens while driving? Loose an oil cooler line or ?? It sure would be nice to have a gauge or warning system of some type.
Ken mentioned there is a diagnostic pressure port on the side. Perhaps a gauge or sensor there would provide an indication of falling levels. Or, new cars have a sensor in the side of the pan that detects when the oil level is low and turns on a 'low oil level' message. I don't know but there is bound to be something. Isn't there?
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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Re: My tranny woes [message #265393 is a reply to message #265389] |
Mon, 03 November 2014 20:28 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260 Registered: January 2004 Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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kerry pinkerton wrote on Mon, 03 November 2014 18:31Some of you may remember that I lost my 1 year old Manny Tranny last month due to low fluid. I suspected my dipstick and today I started getting ready to pull the tranny tomorrow. When I removed the dipstick tube I found this:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p56393-cause-for-my-tranny-fa.html
Obviously, about 1/4 of the O-ring is just plain missing.
Sigh. My bad, my fault, all on me.... Nothing at all to do with Manny other than him selling a transmission to a dumbass.
I have no explanation for why I didn't take 10 minutes and pull the dipstick tube out last summer when I noticed a big transmission fluid leak. Could have saved myself a chunk of change and lot of work.
If I recall correctly, the O-ring was just a basic Harbor Freight O-ring from an assortment box. It should have been high temp Viton. Regardless, the broken O-ring let fluid run out of the tranny when the converter leaked down. The fluid is definitely burned. On a positive note, there is no transmission fluid in the final drive. I was concerned that the mating seals on the 3.21 might have failed.
And when I was removing the cooler lines, one of them self destructed...guerrrrrrr
I think I understand why the tranny temp sensor never got hot. There wasn't enough fluid in the pan to heat it up.
I'll get the tranny out tomorrow and next week take it down to Ken Hendersons and pick up one of the new Manny Trannys that Manny built at Ken's and left there for us poor unfortunate souls in the South that might need one.
So, what can I do to keep this from happening again. I haven't talked to Manny about this but I'm thinking there is bound to be some way to 'know' when the fluid is low while driving. Yes, I'm going to implement a front access dip stick but what if something happens while driving? Loose an oil cooler line or ?? It sure would be nice to have a gauge or warning system of some type.
Ken mentioned there is a diagnostic pressure port on the side. Perhaps a gauge or sensor there would provide an indication of falling levels. Or, new cars have a sensor in the side of the pan that detects when the oil level is low and turns on a 'low oil level' message. I don't know but there is bound to be something. Isn't there?
That seal is way above the normal fluid level isn't it? I know there is some level of churning going on but is it really the cause?
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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Re: My tranny woes [message #265394 is a reply to message #265389] |
Mon, 03 November 2014 20:39 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565 Registered: July 2012 Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Bob what happens is the torque converter drains down and fills the bottom of the tranny which overflowed via the missing O-ring. From what I can determine, all converters leak down but some quicker than others. When I first noticed the problem, I was 2 quarts + low. Manny said no 425 can survive that.
Larry, I don't know about the parts list but Manny said that HF has a Viton O-ring assortment.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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Re: [GMCnet] My tranny woes [message #265403 is a reply to message #265389] |
Mon, 03 November 2014 21:19 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726 Registered: March 2004 Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Kerry, et al,
For your front access transmission dipstick, consider just modifying the
existing dipstick tube rather than replacing it. There's a bend in the
tube just above the FD. I drilled a 3/8" hole there, then distorted the
hole to a "warped oval" with a 3/8" rod. Into that hole I brazed a 3/8" x
12" tube, trimmed so it didn't extend but 1/32" or less into the dipstick
tube. A compression coupling and additional tubing extends the 12" to the
driver's side of the radiator.
With the minor interference inside the dipstick tube, I can still use the
OEM dipstick, with its top seal and vent (essential). For the extended
dipstick, I use a 1/8" steel cable, with the lower end brazed to eliminate
raveling and provide a markable/readable surface. I made a T-handle from
1/2" Lexan with a set screw to hold the cable at the proper calibrated
length. The "vertical" part of the T is drilled to fit over the 3/8"
tube. The small cable can share the dipstick tube with the flat original,
but if one wanted to, they could cut the original off short of the new tube.
It's worked for me for several years; your results may vary. :-)
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 8:31 PM, Kerry Pinkerton
wrote:
> Some of you may remember that I lost my 1 year old Manny Tranny last month
> due to low fluid. I suspected my dipstick and today I started getting
> ready to pull the tranny tomorrow. When I removed the dipstick tube I
> found this:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p56393-cause-for-my-tranny-fa.html
>
> ...
> Yes, I'm going to implement a front access dip stick but what if
> something happens while driving?
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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Re: [GMCnet] My tranny woes [message #265404 is a reply to message #265403] |
Mon, 03 November 2014 21:31 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707 Registered: May 2007 Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Do you have any pictures Ken??
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 9:19 PM, Ken Henderson wrote:
> Kerry, et al,
>
> For your front access transmission dipstick, consider just modifying the
> existing dipstick tube rather than replacing it. There's a bend in the
> tube just above the FD. I drilled a 3/8" hole there, then distorted the
> hole to a "warped oval" with a 3/8" rod. Into that hole I brazed a 3/8" x
> 12" tube, trimmed so it didn't extend but 1/32" or less into the dipstick
> tube. A compression coupling and additional tubing extends the 12" to the
> driver's side of the radiator.
>
> With the minor interference inside the dipstick tube, I can still use the
> OEM dipstick, with its top seal and vent (essential). For the extended
> dipstick, I use a 1/8" steel cable, with the lower end brazed to eliminate
> raveling and provide a markable/readable surface. I made a T-handle from
> 1/2" Lexan with a set screw to hold the cable at the proper calibrated
> length. The "vertical" part of the T is drilled to fit over the 3/8"
> tube. The small cable can share the dipstick tube with the flat original,
> but if one wanted to, they could cut the original off short of the new tube.
>
> It's worked for me for several years; your results may vary. :-)
>
> Ken H.
> Americus, GA
> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
> Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, etc., etc.
> www.gmcwipersetc.com
>
> On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 8:31 PM, Kerry Pinkerton
> wrote:
>
>> Some of you may remember that I lost my 1 year old Manny Tranny last month
>> due to low fluid. I suspected my dipstick and today I started getting
>> ready to pull the tranny tomorrow. When I removed the dipstick tube I
>> found this:
>>
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p56393-cause-for-my-tranny-fa.html
>>
>> ...
>
>> Yes, I'm going to implement a front access dip stick but what if
>> something happens while driving?
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
--
Ray Erspamer
78 Royale - "The Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMCRoyale@gmail.com
414-484-9431
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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Re: [GMCnet] My tranny woes [message #265406 is a reply to message #265404] |
Mon, 03 November 2014 21:42 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726 Registered: March 2004 Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Only the word picture. :-)
I'll check tomorrow whether it's possible to make useful photos of the
installation.
Ken H.
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 10:31 PM, Ray Erspamer wrote:
> Do you have any pictures Ken??
>
> On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 9:19 PM, Ken Henderson
> wrote:
>> Kerry, et al,
>>
>> For your front access transmission dipstick, consider just modifying the
>> existing dipstick tube rather than replacing it. There's a bend in the
>>
> ...
>
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Ken Henderson
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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Re: [GMCnet] My tranny woes [message #265412 is a reply to message #265389] |
Tue, 04 November 2014 01:04 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912 Registered: July 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Kerry,
I'm sure this isn't the first AW S#!T you've run into tinkering with "stuff" and I'm sure it won't be the last. Hopefully Manny will
be able to rebuild your transmission.
If I were you I would inspect the chamfer where the dipstick goes into the final drive. With the final drive out you could use a
beveled grind stone like this in a drill to increase it a bit:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#4522a277/=ufzopj
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Kerry Pinkerton
Some of you may remember that I lost my 1 year old Manny Tranny last month due to low fluid. I suspected my dipstick and today I
started getting ready to pull the tranny tomorrow. When I removed the dipstick tube I found this:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p56393-cause-for-my-tranny-fa.html
Obviously, about 1/4 of the O-ring is just plain missing.
Sigh. My bad, my fault, all on me.... :( :blush: Nothing at all to do with Manny other than him selling a transmission to a
dumbass.
I have no explanation for why I didn't take 10 minutes and pull the dipstick tube out last summer when I noticed a big transmission
fluid leak. Could have saved myself a chunk of change and lot of work. :blush:
If I recall correctly, the O-ring was just a basic Harbor Freight O-ring from an assortment box. It should have been high temp
Viton. Regardless, the broken O-ring let fluid run out of the tranny when the converter leaked down. The fluid is definitely
burned. On a positive note, there is no transmission fluid in the final drive. I was concerned that the mating seals on the 3.21
might have failed.
And when I was removing the cooler lines, one of them self destructed...guerrrrrrr
I think I understand why the tranny temp sensor never got hot. There wasn't enough fluid in the pan to heat it up.
I'll get the tranny out tomorrow and next week take it down to Ken Hendersons and pick up one of the new Manny Trannys that Manny
built at Ken's and left there for us poor unfortunate souls in the South that might need one.
So, what can I do to keep this from happening again. I haven't talked to Manny about this but I'm thinking there is bound to be
some way to 'know' when the fluid is low while driving. Yes, I'm going to implement a front access dip stick but what if something
happens while driving? Loose an oil cooler line or ?? It sure would be nice to have a gauge or warning system of some type.
Ken mentioned there is a diagnostic pressure port on the side. Perhaps a gauge or sensor there would provide an indication of
falling levels. Or, new cars have a sensor in the side of the pan that detects when the oil level is low and turns on a 'low oil
level' message. I don't know but there is bound to be something. Isn't there?
--
Kerry
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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Re: My tranny woes [message #265414 is a reply to message #265389] |
Tue, 04 November 2014 08:00 |
Larry
Messages: 2875 Registered: January 2004 Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
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kerry pinkerton wrote on Mon, 03 November 2014 19:31
Obviously, about 1/4 of the O-ring is just plain missing.
If I recall correctly, the O-ring was just a basic Harbor Freight O-ring from an assortment box. It should have been high temp Viton. Regardless, the broken O-ring let fluid run out of the tranny when the converter leaked down.
So, you are saying that you, or someone put in a HF "O" ring and that O ring disinigrated leaving what is pictured? I agree, in retrospect that while you (or anyone) is at it, you might as well spend the extra few pennys and put in a Viton O ring....But until now....who knew??? I would have thought that temps on that part of the trans would not be high enough to deteroriate a standard O ring....but then what do I know...
Don't beat yourself up...could be happening to me and many of the rest of us right now. Difference now is...We've been told!!
Thanks for the update.
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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Re: My tranny woes [message #265417 is a reply to message #265389] |
Tue, 04 November 2014 09:30 |
midlf
Messages: 2212 Registered: July 2007 Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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kerry pinkerton wrote on Mon, 03 November 2014 19:31Some of you may remember that I lost my 1 year old Manny Tranny last month due to low fluid. I suspected my dipstick and today I started getting ready to pull the tranny tomorrow. When I removed the dipstick tube I found this:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p56393-cause-for-my-tranny-fa.html
Obviously, about 1/4 of the O-ring is just plain missing.
Another possibility. The O-ring got nicked while inserting it and seperated.
I installed my tube with the front clip out of the GMC. It was a bit putzy to get it to seat correctly. With the trans installed it would be more difficult to feel if it went in correctly. It is, IMO, a wheel off and fender liner out job.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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Re: My tranny woes [message #265455 is a reply to message #265393] |
Tue, 04 November 2014 19:50 |
rickmike
Messages: 252 Registered: September 2011 Location: United States
Karma: 0
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Kerry,
I don't mean to sound like I am contradicting anyone but my Dad had a similar experience back in the 70s with his coach.
Coach wouldn't move forward or back, terribly burned fluid. Really nasty smell.
Changed the fluid and filter. Coach would move in forward and reverse!! It worked fine.
Put about 100,000 miles on it before he sold it. Never another problem!
I would spend the cost of fluid, filter change and see if it works again.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Rick M.
1974 26' Canyonlands
aka "The General"
Clinton, TN
[Updated on: Tue, 04 November 2014 19:59] Report message to a moderator
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Re: My tranny woes [message #265458 is a reply to message #265389] |
Tue, 04 November 2014 20:36 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565 Registered: July 2012 Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Thing is Rick that the coach moves forward in first and second perfectly. Its only 3rd and reverse that are slipping. That points to a problem (burned disks) in the drive package (thats not the right name).
Regardless, it's out and on the ground...actually in the shop... now. I was really dreading it but now that it's over, it wasn't as bad as I was thinking it would be.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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Re: My tranny woes [message #265469 is a reply to message #265458] |
Tue, 04 November 2014 22:42 |
rickmike
Messages: 252 Registered: September 2011 Location: United States
Karma: 0
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kerry pinkerton wrote on Tue, 04 November 2014 21:36Thing is Rick that the coach moves forward in first and second perfectly. Its only 3rd and reverse that are slipping. That points to a problem (burned disks) in the drive package (thats not the right name).
Regardless, it's out and on the ground...actually in the shop... now. I was really dreading it but now that it's over, it wasn't as bad as I was thinking it would be.
Water over the dam now if it is already out.
Sorry to hear of your trans troubles.
I too just had to have trans redone. But mine was because a snap ring broke at 94k miles.
I was travelling in Texas and had to have AAMCO fix it. Frustrating because I have an extra trans and torque convertor at home!!!
Such is life. It ran great on the 1000 mile trip home.
Rick M.
1974 26' Canyonlands
aka "The General"
Clinton, TN
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Re: My tranny woes [message #265496 is a reply to message #265389] |
Wed, 05 November 2014 15:00 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085 Registered: October 2008 Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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kerry pinkerton wrote on Mon, 03 November 2014 17:31Some of you may remember that I lost my 1 year old Manny Tranny last month due to low fluid.
So, what can I do to keep this from happening again. I haven't talked to Manny about this but I'm thinking there is bound to be some way to 'know' when the fluid is low while driving. Yes, I'm going to implement a front access dip stick but what if something happens while driving? Loose an oil cooler line or ?? It sure would be nice to have a gauge or warning system of some type.
Ken mentioned there is a diagnostic pressure port on the side. Perhaps a gauge or sensor there would provide an indication of falling levels. Or, new cars have a sensor in the side of the pan that detects when the oil level is low and turns on a 'low oil level' message. I don't know but there is bound to be something. Isn't there?
This is a most interesting question because, like many, when driving I idly wonder how the transmission is doing. I have a temperature gauge but wonder if a buzzer to sound or a light go on when pressure is low would help.
I found this buzzer sender adjustable up to 50 lbs. That seems to be low a pressure from what I read, but on the other hand it might be soon enough to stop real damage.
http://www.smileysracing.com/shopping/productDetails.aspx?i=17547&c=1286
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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Re: [GMCnet] My tranny woes [message #265507 is a reply to message #265496] |
Wed, 05 November 2014 16:45 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806 Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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George, you worry too much.(grin) Look out that huge panoramic windshield,
watch the scenery go by. If there is sinister stuff happening under the
hatch, it will either get worse or not. If it gets worse, then deal with
it. A Manny Transmission will cost you the same $$$ with a small bit of
trouble as it will for a lot of it. A LOP switch that malfunctions will
leave you beside the road same as a failed engine or transmission will. It
is just one more link in the failure chain.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Nov 5, 2014 1:01 PM, "George Beckman" wrote:
> kerry pinkerton wrote on Mon, 03 November 2014 17:31
>> Some of you may remember that I lost my 1 year old Manny Tranny last
> month due to low fluid.
>> So, what can I do to keep this from happening again. I haven't talked
> to Manny about this but I'm thinking there is bound to be some way to
>> 'know' when the fluid is low while driving. Yes, I'm going to implement
> a front access dip stick but what if something happens while driving?
>> Loose an oil cooler line or ?? It sure would be nice to have a gauge
> or warning system of some type.
>>
>> Ken mentioned there is a diagnostic pressure port on the side. Perhaps
> a gauge or sensor there would provide an indication of falling levels.
>> Or, new cars have a sensor in the side of the pan that detects when the
> oil level is low and turns on a 'low oil level' message. I don't know but
>> there is bound to be something. Isn't there?
>
>
> This is a most interesting question because, like many, when driving I
> idly wonder how the transmission is doing. I have a temperature gauge but
> wonder if a buzzer to sound or a light go on when pressure is low would
> help.
>
> I found this buzzer sender adjustable up to 50 lbs. That seems to be low
> a pressure from what I read, but on the other hand it might be soon enough
> to stop real damage.
>
> http://www.smileysracing.com/shopping/productDetails.aspx?i=17547&c=1286
> --
> '74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
> Best Wishes,
> George
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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Re: [GMCnet] My tranny woes [message #265518 is a reply to message #265507] |
Wed, 05 November 2014 20:50 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565 Registered: July 2012 Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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James Hupy wrote on Wed, 05 November 2014 16:45...A LOP switch that malfunctions will
leave you beside the road same as a failed engine or transmission will. ...
How is that Jim? I guess if it broke off and let fluid out perhaps but otherwise you'd just get a buzz alarm...or not.
I spoke to Manny about this and he said he has something...he was in a noisy place and I couldn't quite understand what he was saying. I'll follow up with him.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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Re: [GMCnet] My tranny woes [message #265523 is a reply to message #265518] |
Wed, 05 November 2014 23:04 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806 Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Kerry, I was referring to the LOP switches that sense loss of pressure and
open the ignition circuit. When they fail open, you have no spark. Sorry if
my answer was confusing.
Jim Hupy
On Nov 5, 2014 6:50 PM, "Kerry Pinkerton" wrote:
> James Hupy wrote on Wed, 05 November 2014 16:45
>> ...A LOP switch that malfunctions will
>> leave you beside the road same as a failed engine or transmission will.
> ...
>
>
> How is that Jim? I guess if it broke off and let fluid out perhaps but
> otherwise you'd just get a buzz alarm...or not.
>
> I spoke to Manny about this and he said he has something...he was in a
> noisy place and I couldn't quite understand what he was saying. I'll
> follow up
> with him.
>
> --
> Kerry Pinkerton
>
> North Alabama, near Huntsville,
>
> 77 Eleganza II, "The Lady", 403CI, Manny Brakes, 1 ton, tranny also a 76
> Eleganza to be re-bodied as an Art Deco car hauler
> _______________________________________________
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