OEM vs Alcoa lug nuts [message #265349] |
Mon, 03 November 2014 11:59 |
midlf
Messages: 2212 Registered: July 2007 Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
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I know you cannot use the original lug nuts on Alcoa wheels.
However can Alcoa lug nuts be used on a steel wheel?
I'm asking because my spare is on a 16" steel wheel and I really don't want to have to carry, and find if needed, a set of OEM lugnuts.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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Re: OEM vs Alcoa lug nuts [message #265358 is a reply to message #265349] |
Mon, 03 November 2014 13:15 |
Otterwan
Messages: 946 Registered: July 2013 Location: Lynnwood (north of Seattl...
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The Alcoa lug nuts are not torqued as high as the steel wheel lug nuts, if I recall correctly 145 ft/lbs vs 250 ft/lbs. I don't know if the Alcoa lug nut would take that torque.
You already have 3 stock lug nuts holding your spare on the carrier. Is carrying 5 more that much trouble?
1977 Birchaven, Lynnwood WA - "We may not be able to stop all evil in the world, but I know that how we treat one another is entirely up to us."
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Re: OEM vs Alcoa lug nuts [message #265360 is a reply to message #265358] |
Mon, 03 November 2014 13:19 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005 Registered: August 2004 Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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I have Alcoa Lug nuts on my 16" steel wheels. Torqued to Alcoa specs, I have yet to have one loosen. There are recommendations to reduce the torque on the OEM lug nuts.
Of all the stuff I carry, lug nuts are not a major problem.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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Re: OEM vs Alcoa lug nuts [message #265395 is a reply to message #265349] |
Mon, 03 November 2014 20:40 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260 Registered: January 2004 Location: Chandler, AZ
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midlf wrote on Mon, 03 November 2014 10:59I know you cannot use the original lug nuts on Alcoa wheels.
However can Alcoa lug nuts be used on a steel wheel?
I'm asking because my spare is on a 16" steel wheel and I really don't want to have to carry, and find if needed, a set of OEM lugnuts.
From an engineering standpoint these lug nuts have very different clamp mechanisms. My answer is absolutely not. I suppose super glue may work but i sure wouldn't do it!
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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Re: [GMCnet] OEM vs Alcoa lug nuts [message #265397 is a reply to message #265349] |
Mon, 03 November 2014 20:47 |
Kosier
Messages: 834 Registered: February 2008
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Steve,
Alcoa didn't invent those lug nuts. My last employer had a 1-ton dually
Ford which used the same lug nuts. On steel wheels,
of course. Find some old time GMCers who remember Benny Hill, from Newark,
who had a '76 GMC new. He also had a
business called Contour Forming and manufactured 316SS wheel covers and
those same lug nuts with a closed top.
When we first got into GMCs, I got tired of losing wheel covers and went to
see Benny. He still had some wheel covers in
his warehouse.(no lug nuts.sorry) Another old gentleman who I used to give
a little labor to had a '76 Palm Beach with the
covers and nuts installed. They're both gone now, as are their coaches.
But, of course, I still have a set of the wheel
covers hanging on the wall out in the shop. They'll probably still be there
when I'm gone, thirty years from now. ROFLMAO
Gary Kosier
77 PB w/500 Cad
Newark, Oh
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Southworth
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2014 12:59 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] OEM vs Alcoa lug nuts
I know you cannot use the original lug nuts on Alcoa wheels.
However can Alcoa lug nuts be used on a steel wheel?
I'm asking because my spare is on a 16" steel wheel and I really don't want
to have to carry, and find if needed, a set of OEM lugnuts.
--
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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Re: OEM vs Alcoa lug nuts [message #265418 is a reply to message #265358] |
Tue, 04 November 2014 09:38 |
midlf
Messages: 2212 Registered: July 2007 Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
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Otterwan wrote on Mon, 03 November 2014 13:15The Alcoa lug nuts are not torqued as high as the steel wheel lug nuts, if I recall correctly 145 ft/lbs vs 250 ft/lbs. I don't know if the Alcoa lug nut would take that torque.
You already have 3 stock lug nuts holding your spare on the carrier. Is carrying 5 more that much trouble?
The lug nuts on the spare are Alcoa type. Carring the OEM lug nuts is not the problem. I've got a bunch of them and they don't take a lot of space. Finding them in the GMC, after several years, could be a problem.
I figure the difference in torque between the OEM and the Alcoa is the Alcoa nuts have an integral washer that is supposed to be lubricated before use. The OEM is a flanged nut and requires significant additional torque to overcome the rotational friction of the nut on the wheel.
I hope BobDK elaborates on his comments. I'm an electric guy with no formal mechanical education.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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Re: [GMCnet] OEM vs Alcoa lug nuts [message #265465 is a reply to message #265460] |
Tue, 04 November 2014 21:49 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912 Registered: July 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Bruce,
Good point, IIRC the hub to disk / drum bolts are 1/2" x 13 and the wheel studs are 9/16" x 18.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Bruce Hislop
I'm not an Engineer, but I find it interesting that it takes 8 big-ass bolts in an 8" diameter to hold a wheel on.... but that same
wheel's axle is held to the bogey by 4 much smaller bolts set in about a 4" diameter.
Just saying..
--
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
Hubler 1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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Re: [GMCnet] OEM vs Alcoa lug nuts [message #265466 is a reply to message #265465] |
Tue, 04 November 2014 22:04 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046 Registered: November 2005
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Just an observation -- if you have a GMC dually and add Alcoa wheels, the inside rear wheels and spare are still steel.
Do you think they recommend you carry two style lug nuts?
Dennis
USAussie wrote on Tue, 04 November 2014 21:49Bruce,
Good point, IIRC the hub to disk / drum bolts are 1/2" x 13 and the wheel studs are 9/16" x 18.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Bruce Hislop
I'm not an Engineer, but I find it interesting that it takes 8 big-ass bolts in an 8" diameter to hold a wheel on.... but that same
wheel's axle is held to the bogey by 4 much smaller bolts set in about a 4" diameter.
Just saying..
--
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
Hubler 1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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Re: [GMCnet] OEM vs Alcoa lug nuts [message #265472 is a reply to message #265466] |
Tue, 04 November 2014 23:54 |
jimk
Messages: 6734 Registered: July 2006 Location: Belmont, CA
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Those that know the difference in the two nuts ar correct.
The original ones had friction at the outside diameter that required higher
specs.
The Alcoa design has a rotating washer that spin at a smaller diameter so
the torque need not be high.
On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Dennis Sexton wrote:
> Just an observation -- if you have a GMC dually and add Alcoa wheels, the
> inside rear wheels and spare are still steel.
> Do you think they recommend you carry two style lug nuts?
>
> Dennis
>
> USAussie wrote on Tue, 04 November 2014 21:49
>> Bruce,
>>
>> Good point, IIRC the hub to disk / drum bolts are 1/2" x 13 and the
> wheel studs are 9/16" x 18.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rob M.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Bruce Hislop
>>
>> I'm not an Engineer, but I find it interesting that it takes 8 big-ass
> bolts in an 8" diameter to hold a wheel on.... but that same
>> wheel's axle is held to the bogey by 4 much smaller bolts set in about a
> 4" diameter.
>>
>> Just saying..
>>
>> --
>> Bruce Hislop
>> ON Canada
>> 77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
>> Hubler 1 ton front end
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
>> My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
> --
> Dennis S
> 73 Painted Desert 230
> Germantown, TN
> _______________________________________________
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Re: OEM vs Alcoa lug nuts [message #265535 is a reply to message #265349] |
Thu, 06 November 2014 07:38 |
kwharland
Messages: 246 Registered: November 2005 Location: Central Florida
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I'm going to stick my neck out here as I am a mechanical enginner but not a GMC or wheel expert, but I see no reason Alcoa type lugnuts can't be used on steel wheels. Are we sure they're not in some other vehicle application?
1978 Eleganza II
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Re: [GMCnet] OEM vs Alcoa lug nuts [message #265564 is a reply to message #265554] |
Thu, 06 November 2014 16:43 |
midlf
Messages: 2212 Registered: July 2007 Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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OK - I'm gonna throw 8 OEM lug nuts in the coach somewhere. Why? Why not. If I need to use the steel wheel spare I'll use the Alcoa Lug nuts. Why? Lower torque to install. 140 is doable in the field. The torque for the OEM is not so easy, whichever number you use.
Thanks for all the comments.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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Re: [GMCnet] OEM vs Alcoa lug nuts [message #265589 is a reply to message #265583] |
Fri, 07 November 2014 09:14 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446 Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Hal,
I have always put a little (light film) silicone grease on the surface area of the washer that touches the aluminum wheel. I use it to reduce and try to eliminate the dissimilar metal corrosion between the steel nut and aluminum wheel. JMPC It also protects against salt corrosion too. As for the area where the nut itself interfaces with the washer I have always used a little ATF to protect against rust. I know that is a lessor problem where you live in NM, but in the Midwest it can be an issue. As you know, If you put a 140 ft/lbs on the nut it is not coming off. This is what I do, it has worked for me for 15 years.
JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion
Michigan
> On Nov 7, 2014, at 12:28 AM, Hal Kading wrote:
>
> Steve,
>
> I believe it was you who mentioned lubing the Alcoa nut to washer surface before use. I was not aware of that recommendation. Can you give a
> reference?
>
> Hal Kading 78 Buskirk Las Cruces NM
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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Re: OEM vs Alcoa lug nuts [message #265630 is a reply to message #265460] |
Sat, 08 November 2014 08:43 |
winter
Messages: 247 Registered: September 2007 Location: MPLS MN
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RF_Burns wrote on Tue, 04 November 2014 21:05I'm not an Engineer, but I find it interesting that it takes 8 big-ass bolts in an 8" diameter to hold a wheel on.... but that same wheel's axle is held to the bogey by 4 much smaller bolts set in about a 4" diameter.
Just saying..
The rim is probably the weak member so the bolt pattern and flange nuts are large to spread out the load. There is also probably some extra safety factor built in in case of loose or missing nuts. Because the general public would be taking the joint apart on a regular basis, GM would have to make it robust.
Jerrod Winter
1977 Palm Beach
Green Jelly Bean
Twin Cities, Minnesota
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