Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » oil cooler adapter gasket (how much should it be torqued?)
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| Re: [GMCnet] oil cooler adapter gasket [message #260649 is a reply to message #260602] |
Mon, 01 September 2014 16:42   |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
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I guess the Dorman seal is slightly thinner, thereby precluding the cracking noted by John Heslinga???
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> From: hend4800@bellsouth.net
> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 23:31:25 -0400
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] oil cooler adapter gasket
>
> Sounds like the right idea to me!
>
> I'll try to remember that -- I've probably just been lucky these past
> 100,000 miles. :-)
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 11:28 PM, Rob Mueller
> wrote:
>
>> G'day,
>>
>> STOP using the gasket out of an oil filter between the oil filter adapter
>> and the oil cooler adapter and get this kit from Dorman.
>>
>>
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/455-403-engine-oil-flow-path/p53706-dorman-oil-filter-o-ri.html
>>
>> The O-Ring is silicone and is what really should be used in between those
>> two components NOT an oil filter seal!
>>
>> An oil filter seal is designed to be torqued hand tight, when you torque
>> the oil filter extension fitting to 55 ft. lbs. I squashes
>> the oil filter seal WAY beyond it's designed crush and over time it cold
>> flows (oozes out around the oil cooler adapter) and leaks.
>>
>> Using the Dorman silicone seal results in the oil filter adapter and oil
>> cooler adapter into a metal to metal fit with the seal in
>> the groove doing it's thing.
>>
>> I installed one of the Dorman O-rings last year and haven't seen a drop of
>> oil leakage from the area since then.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rob M.
>> The Pedantic Mechanic
>> USAussie - Downunder
>> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: RJW
>>
>> I noticed a oil leak during a previous trip. I thought it was loose
>> rocker cover bolts. Tighten them up and though was all OK
>> until I changed to engine oil today. When I looked at the filter I
>> realized that the bulk of my leak was coming from the oil cooler
>> adapter. I am aware of using the gasket from the just removed oil filter
>> as a new gasket. Well I did that with no idea of the
>> torque, but figured it was not very much since you don't torque an oil
>> filter all that much and it is the same gasket.
>>
>> Well it leaked a drip a minute when I stated the engine. Then I figured
>> I would tighten it some and now it leaks more.
>>
>> Does anyone know the proper procedure for using the gasket from a used
>> filter? How much to torque it? I must admit after 16 years
>> of oil changes I never paid much attention to the gasket between the oil
>> filter base and the oil cooler adapter. It never seemed to
>> leak before. After I changed my engine a few years ago it started to
>> leak.
>>
>> These pages are the only ones I am aware of at the photo site.
>>
>>
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/emergency-oil-cooler-line-repairs/p11679.html
>>
>> Richard
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| Re: [GMCnet] oil cooler adapter gasket [message #260669 is a reply to message #260627] |
Mon, 01 September 2014 20:54 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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USAussie wrote on Mon, 01 September 2014 09:46Richard,
Not to denigrate BobD's suggestion why don't you try and find the Dorman P/N 917-036 and use the o-ring?
John got his at Auto Zone and I got mine at O'Reilly's.
I just checked and the three Advanced auto parts stores closest to me all show it in stock for $5.99
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: oil cooler adapter gasket [message #260672 is a reply to message #260591] |
Mon, 01 September 2014 22:15 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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This thread would have been very timely last week. Sigh.... Now I get to waste a quart of oil to change my gasket to one of these o-rings. The computer says my son's Advance Auto has them in stock...3 for 6 bucks.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: [GMCnet] oil cooler adapter gasket [message #260673 is a reply to message #260672] |
Mon, 01 September 2014 22:42 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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I doubt the world will come to an end if you wait for the next oil change.
I know after 100,000+ miles I'm not going to rush to change -- even when I
change the oil & filter next week. :-)
Ken H
On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 11:15 PM, Kerry Pinkerton
wrote:
> This thread would have been very timely last week. Sigh.... Now I get to
> waste a quart of oil to change my gasket to one of these o-rings. The
> computer says my son's Advance Auto has them in stock...3 for 6 bucks.
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] oil cooler adapter gasket [message #260674 is a reply to message #260672] |
Mon, 01 September 2014 23:13 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Kerry,
As JohnH noted the Dorman 917-036 O-ring is a bit small but it works fine, however, being the pedantic bastard that I am today I
measured the OD, ID, and depth of the groove in the oil cooler adapter.
Tomorrow I'm going to try and find the PERFECT O-ring to use.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: Kerry Pinkerton
This thread would have been very timely last week. Sigh.... Now I get to waste a quart of oil to change my gasket to one of these
o-rings. The computer says my son's Advance Auto has them in stock...3 for 6 bucks.
--
Kerry
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: oil cooler adapter gasket [message #260675 is a reply to message #260591] |
Mon, 01 September 2014 23:38 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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A few comments and answers:
1.
Quote:John H, is what your pictures refer to as the "Adaptor Bolt" the same item that is labeled as the "EXTENSION" on the drawing in that series of pictures?
Answer: Yes -- What I refer to as the Adapter Bolt is also refered to as the extension. (It is the short fastener you see next to the "To Cooler" Pipe at the top of the the picture I identified ( http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/discussion-photos/p55769-silicone-o-ring-for-oil-cooler-adaptor.html)
( http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/discussion-photos/p55778-oil-cooler-adaptor-mounting-anbd-extension-bolt.html ) That Extension Extends the oil input to the engine through the Oil cooler adapter. (from the filter) It also mounts(or Fastens) The oil cooler adapter to the the oil filter block adaptor. That extension does not bottom out at any point and all the pressure of the torque on that bolt is against the outside flange of the oil filter block adaptor. see this picture
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/discussion-photos/p55775-oil-cooler-adaptor-ext.html
2.
Quote:I guess the Dorman seal is slightly thinner, thereby precluding the cracking noted by John Heslinga???
Answer: Yes -- When using an old oil filter gasget the gasget is far too thick for the torque applied. That torque will either extrude the gasget completly and leak or break the flange of the filter block adaptor. With the silicone ring from Dorman it is far thinner but thick enough to make an effective seal. (Properly fitted O-Rings are never crushed but slightly compressed to create an effective seal.) the cross section of the Dorman seal is not round. It is square and actually designed and made for the same purpose. Its fit in the square seal slot of the coller adaptor makes its use ideal.
3.
Quote:I bought some today, 3 in a package. are these o rings to be changed every
oil change?
Answer : No -- Once you have the Extension torqued to the Oil cooler adaptor you do not have to undo it unless you are repairing it or have removed it. Changing the oil filter will not effect that interface and if it is not leaking, leave it be.
Best Regards
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: oil cooler adapter gasket [message #260697 is a reply to message #260672] |
Tue, 02 September 2014 09:57 |
rjw
Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Kerry Pinkerton wrote on Mon, 01 September 2014 23:15This thread would have been very timely last week. Sigh.... Now I get to waste a quart of oil to change my gasket to one of these o-rings. The computer says my son's Advance Auto has them in stock...3 for 6 bucks.
As a now proven expert in these matters, take my word that you don't have to waste anymore than a few ounces of oil when you remove the filter and loosen up the adapter. I did it 3-4 times on Saturday and Sunday. Just make sure to keep the filter upright during removal, while it is sitting on your work surface and then during reinstall. I didn't lose more than an ounce each time and that was the oil dripping from the adapter.
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dorman 917-036 was Re: oil cooler adapter gasket [message #260733 is a reply to message #260716] |
Tue, 02 September 2014 17:02 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Matt,
As promised I called Parker Hannifin today and spoke to an Applications Engineer. I gave him he ID / OD / Depth of the groove in the oil cooler adapter and he came up with part number 2-231.
EDITED 11/07/2014 - THE CORRECT PART NUMBER IS 2-230, THE OD OF 2-231 WAS TOO LARGE!!
He noted that it would fill 70% of the groove and have 18% compression. He
suggested when I call one of the PH distributors to tell them I wanted a general purpose O-ring compatible with engine oil at 260° F. He noted that Viton would be better than silicone.
I then called a PH distributor here in Houston and their min order was $10.00 so I ordered 10 of them for $12.12. The distributor is on the other side of Houston so I told him to ship them.
When they arrive I will check them in the oil cooler adapter I have here and photograph the result.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Colie
To those who care.
I got a box today. They are not O-rings to an O-ring guy. They are a round gasket. So???
The difference is in how an O-ring works. The near circular cross section of material trapped in a grove that it fills no more than
80% of and is compressed somewhere close to 25% in the clamp direction that get pushed by the internal pressure to achieve the
required seal is what makes and O-ring and O-ring.
This is different than that. These are a rectangular cross section (5*3.5mm- 0.200*0.135")with a 59mm (2.312") ID.
It appears to be a relatively hard silicone rubber. I won't know for months if I like it, because Chaumière's next lube service
will be after Chippawa Falls.
Matt
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
[Updated on: Fri, 07 November 2014 18:33] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: oil cooler adapter gasket [message #260785 is a reply to message #260591] |
Wed, 03 September 2014 01:39 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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If you are using an Oil Filter Gasket for the cooler adaptor to oil filter adaptor interface. Don't lose sleep over this issue, especially if it is not leaking at the moment. Many people have been using this solution successfully for some time and that is one of the reasons the suggestion has been persistent. If you are using this strategy, I suggest significantly decreasing the amount of torque used on the extension. Only enough to compress the Oil filter gasket about 10% to 25%. (The two surfaces not conacting each other) That rubber was designed to seal at a small compression. The joint wont leak and there is way less risk of doing damage. It did not leak for me when I used this strategy. Think of the valve cover gasket and what would happen if you tightened it with too much crush. It will leak.
(More and more modern engine sealing strategies use spacers in the gasket or sealing surface to only allow a designed amount of crush of the gasket and no more)
Using this strategy will, however: mean that the adaptor is not using the metal to metal contact to resist turning, and there is a risk that the adaptor extension will come off with the the oil filter when doing an Oil change. Especially if the Oil filter was over torqued when installed. The "Key' in the cooler adaptor and the cooling lines will help resit the rotation however.
If you are aware of these issues when doing an oil change yourself, they are not a problem, but it could be, if you let some un-caring oil change jockey do your servicing. This is the biggest reason I did not like the Oil Filter Gasket Solution.
(Not the most elegant and fool proof solution)
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: oil cooler adapter gasket [message #261874 is a reply to message #260785] |
Sun, 14 September 2014 14:52 |
rjw
Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Well I still have a leak, but it isn't the adapter gasket.
While I thought I had fixed the leak, it actually got worse during a 600 mile trip last week. I ended up putting a gallon of oil in to keep the level up. it was smoking as oil dripped on the mufflers and on the ground when stopped.
Turns out the leak is the from the "filter stand to block gasket". I am sure I put the right one in when I replaced the engine 35,000 miles ago. I was told off line by one of our most respected engine gurus that I should consider the gasket next to he block. Turns out on visual inspection while running the engine that is where the leak is. I tried to tighten the 3 mounting bolts and that didn't help.
I am now faced with having to replace that gasket. The problem is the exhaust manifold is right in front and one of the bolts looks like it would hit the manifold on the way out.
Has any one replaced the "filter stand to block gasket" without removing the manifold on a 455? It looks like it would be easy with the manifold off, but I don't want to open up another can of worms by remvoing a well sealed exhaust manifold (broken bolts etc.).
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
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| Re: [GMCnet] oil cooler adapter gasket [message #261929 is a reply to message #261874] |
Mon, 15 September 2014 00:07 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Richard,
I checked Parts Book 78Z / Section 8 Engine / Page 8-12 and found the bolts used to bolt that adapter to the block:
P/N 9427321 BOLT-oil filter to-block (3/8 - 16 x 1) (300M)
P/N: 433114 Bolt - oil filter to block
I've been playing with that adapter for the past several days and I'd say the part the bolts go through is 3/8" thick, that means
the 1" long bolts will extend 5/8" above the adapter. Unfortunately the second bolt length is unlisted but I would bet dollars to
donuts it would be near as dammit.
I think the bolts that hold this adapter to the block are in the zip lock bag and I'll check all this tomorrow.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: RJW
Well I still have a leak, but it isn't the adapter gasket.
While I thought I had fixed the leak, it actually got worse during a 600 mile trip last week. I ended up putting a gallon of oil in
to keep the level up. it was smoking as oil dripped on the mufflers and on the ground when stopped.
Turns out the leak is the from the "filter stand to block gasket". I am sure I put the right one in when I replaced the engine
35,000 miles ago. I was told off line by one of our most respected engine gurus that I should consider the gasket next to he block.
Turns out on visual inspection while running the engine that is where the leak is. I tried to tighten the 3 mounting bolts and that
didn't help.
I am now faced with having to replace that gasket. The problem is the exhaust manifold is right in front and one of the bolts looks
like it would hit the manifold on the way out.
Has any one replaced the "filter stand to block gasket" without removing the manifold on a 455? It looks like it would be easy with
the manifold off, but I don't want to open up another can of worms by remvoing a well sealed exhaust manifold (broken bolts etc.).
--
Richard
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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