Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Supplemental brake systems, kenH
| Re: [GMCnet] Supplemental brake systems, kenH [message #244707 is a reply to message #244614] |
Sat, 22 March 2014 19:39   |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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Senior Member |
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| Bob de Kruyff wrote on Fri, 21 March 2014 20:54 |
| Matt Colie wrote on Fri, 21 March 2014 19:58 |
Jim,
Most of the OE parts and absolutely none of the OER parts were aver tested by an independent and recognized laboratory. Most of the AM parts were tested (either in-house or an outside lab) at some point to verify for their their insurance carrier that the parts met a least the appropriate DOT specification.
Matt - Used to be one of those labs
|
Most of my time in my current assignment is involved in litigation. When things get nasty, any modifications whether good or bad will cause a firestorm that you will never be able to defend. Logic does not enter into this process.
|
I am thinking, we need to worry about lots of things.
Gee, what if my coach burns up and they notice my frig is not original? What, it runs on Propane?
What if it burns up and they find I changed the alternator wire?
What if it burns up and they see a different water heater?
what if it burns up and they notice I have added an electric fuel pump?
What I'd it burns up and they find a modification of any kind to the gas tank hoses, oh horror, they are a newer type of hose that was not on the GMC originally?
What if there is a third sump tank added?
What if it gets hot and stalls in traffic, causes an accident and they find I don't have an original radiator?
What if it burns up and I have headers?
What if I have modified exhaust?
What if i have a backup vacuum pump and my brakes worked too good when the engine threw a rod?
What!? You have a cruise control that is not original?
What if I was towing a vehicle and it is determined a GMC never had a tow hitch? Is that hitch a factory original?
What if it is raining and I have Lumina wipers, or horror of horrors, electric wipers?
And, ask Toyota... Is your gas pedal cable an original unit or is the replacement aftermarket?
I could continue but I need to run out and put mechanical brakes and vacuum wipers back on my '37 Ford. I should convert it back to 6 volts and bulbs so my lights are dimmer.
I know. The world is full of suers.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: [GMCnet] Supplemental brake systems, kenH [message #244713 is a reply to message #244707] |
Sat, 22 March 2014 20:46 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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Gee Gorge
I sure hope you haven't installed halogen headlights. You might be able to see the road to well!
Emery Stora
On Mar 22, 2014, at 7:39 PM, George Beckman <gbeckman@pggp.com> wrote:
>
>
> Bob de Kruyff wrote on Fri, 21 March 2014 20:54
>> Matt Colie wrote on Fri, 21 March 2014 19:58
>>> Jim,
>>>
>>> Most of the OE parts and absolutely none of the OER parts were aver tested by an independent and recognized laboratory. Most of the AM parts were tested (either in-house or an outside lab) at some point to verify for their their insurance carrier that the parts met a least the appropriate DOT specification.
>>>
>>> Matt - Used to be one of those labs
>>
>>
>>
>> Most of my time in my current assignment is involved in litigation. When things get nasty, any modifications whether good or bad will cause a firestorm that you will never be able to defend. Logic does not enter into this process.
>
>
> I am thinking, we need to worry about lots of things.
>
> Gee, what if my coach burns up and they notice my frig is not original? What, it runs on Propane?
> What if it burns up and they find I changed the alternator wire?
> What if it burns up and they see a different water heater?
> what if it burns up and they notice I have added an electric fuel pump?
> What I'd it burns up and they find a modification of any kind to the gas tank hoses, oh horror, they are a newer type of hose that was not on the GMC originally?
> What if there is a third sump tank added?
>
> What if it gets hot and stalls in traffic, causes an accident and they find I don't have an original radiator?
> What if it burns up and I have headers?
> What if I have modified exhaust?
> What if i have a backup vacuum pump and my brakes worked too good when the engine threw a rod?
> What!? You have a cruise control that is not original?
>
> What if I was towing a vehicle and it is determined a GMC never had a tow hitch? Is that hitch a factory original?
> What if it is raining and I have Lumina wipers, or horror of horrors, electric wipers?
>
> And, ask Toyota... Is your gas pedal cable an original unit or is the replacement aftermarket?
>
> I could continue but I need to run out and put mechanical brakes and vacuum wipers back on my '37 Ford. I should convert it back to 6 volts and bulbs so my lights are dimmer.
>
> I know. The world is full of suers.
>
>
> --
> '74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
> Best Wishes,
> George
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Supplemental brake systems, kenH [message #244742 is a reply to message #244707] |
Sun, 23 March 2014 07:00 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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how could you leave out efi , with ebl
and doing the run lean?
erf
On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 5:39 PM, George Beckman <gbeckman@pggp.com> wrote:
>
>
> Bob de Kruyff wrote on Fri, 21 March 2014 20:54
> > Matt Colie wrote on Fri, 21 March 2014 19:58
> > > Jim,
> > >
> > > Most of the OE parts and absolutely none of the OER parts were aver
> tested by an independent and recognized laboratory. Most of the AM parts
> were tested (either in-house or an outside lab) at some point to verify for
> their their insurance carrier that the parts met a least the appropriate
> DOT specification.
> > >
> > > Matt - Used to be one of those labs
> >
> >
> >
> > Most of my time in my current assignment is involved in litigation. When
> things get nasty, any modifications whether good or bad will cause a
> firestorm that you will never be able to defend. Logic does not enter into
> this process.
>
>
> I am thinking, we need to worry about lots of things.
>
> Gee, what if my coach burns up and they notice my frig is not original?
> What, it runs on Propane?
> What if it burns up and they find I changed the alternator wire?
> What if it burns up and they see a different water heater?
> what if it burns up and they notice I have added an electric fuel pump?
> What I'd it burns up and they find a modification of any kind to the gas
> tank hoses, oh horror, they are a newer type of hose that was not on the
> GMC originally?
> What if there is a third sump tank added?
>
> What if it gets hot and stalls in traffic, causes an accident and they
> find I don't have an original radiator?
> What if it burns up and I have headers?
> What if I have modified exhaust?
> What if i have a backup vacuum pump and my brakes worked too good when the
> engine threw a rod?
> What!? You have a cruise control that is not original?
>
> What if I was towing a vehicle and it is determined a GMC never had a tow
> hitch? Is that hitch a factory original?
> What if it is raining and I have Lumina wipers, or horror of horrors,
> electric wipers?
>
> And, ask Toyota... Is your gas pedal cable an original unit or is the
> replacement aftermarket?
>
> I could continue but I need to run out and put mechanical brakes and
> vacuum wipers back on my '37 Ford. I should convert it back to 6 volts and
> bulbs so my lights are dimmer.
>
> I know. The world is full of suers.
>
>
> --
> '74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
> Best Wishes,
> George
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
"Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Supplemental brake systems, kenH [message #244756 is a reply to message #244742] |
Sun, 23 March 2014 10:23 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| Mr ERFisher wrote on Sun, 23 March 2014 06:00 |
how could you leave out efi , with ebl
and doing the run lean?
erf
On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 5:39 PM, George Beckman <gbeckman@pggp.com> wrote:
>
>
> Bob de Kruyff wrote on Fri, 21 March 2014 20:54
> > Matt Colie wrote on Fri, 21 March 2014 19:58
> > > Jim,
> > >
> > > Most of the OE parts and absolutely none of the OER parts were aver
> tested by an independent and recognized laboratory. Most of the AM parts
> were tested (either in-house or an outside lab) at some point to verify for
> their their insurance carrier that the parts met a least the appropriate
> DOT specification.
> > >
> > > Matt - Used to be one of those labs
> >
> >
> >
> > Most of my time in my current assignment is involved in litigation. When
> things get nasty, any modifications whether good or bad will cause a
> firestorm that you will never be able to defend. Logic does not enter into
> this process.
>
>
> I am thinking, we need to worry about lots of things.
>
> Gee, what if my coach burns up and they notice my frig is not original?
> What, it runs on Propane?
> What if it burns up and they find I changed the alternator wire?
> What if it burns up and they see a different water heater?
> what if it burns up and they notice I have added an electric fuel pump?
> What I'd it burns up and they find a modification of any kind to the gas
> tank hoses, oh horror, they are a newer type of hose that was not on the
> GMC originally?
> What if there is a third sump tank added?
>
> What if it gets hot and stalls in traffic, causes an accident and they
> find I don't have an original radiator?
> What if it burns up and I have headers?
> What if I have modified exhaust?
> What if i have a backup vacuum pump and my brakes worked too good when the
> engine threw a rod?
> What!? You have a cruise control that is not original?
>
> What if I was towing a vehicle and it is determined a GMC never had a tow
> hitch? Is that hitch a factory original?
> What if it is raining and I have Lumina wipers, or horror of horrors,
> electric wipers?
>
> And, ask Toyota... Is your gas pedal cable an original unit or is the
> replacement aftermarket?
>
> I could continue but I need to run out and put mechanical brakes and
> vacuum wipers back on my '37 Ford. I should convert it back to 6 volts and
> bulbs so my lights are dimmer.
>
> I know. The world is full of suers.
>
>
> --
> '74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
> Best Wishes,
> George
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
"Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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Now you're starting to get it.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Supplemental brake systems, kenH [message #244770 is a reply to message #244693] |
Sun, 23 March 2014 14:36 |
mikethebike
Messages: 331
Registered: January 2014
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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What most refer to as an 'emergency brake' is really a parking brake. If you ever attempted to stop a car using only the parking brake you would know this. It is precisely why the FEDS required a dual brake system beginning Jan 1, 1967
[quote title=WildBill wrote on Sat, 22 March 2014 17:12][quote title=
Will drums make as many repeated consecutive high speed stops without overheating as a set of discs will? No. But I'm not running like that in the GMC.
I am in agreement with JB on this. If you want to convert your GMC, by all means do. But I fail to see how, under normal driving conditions, it would be worth the time, expense, trouble.
I'm doing disks because if my perceived increase in safety as well as economics.
I don't know if driving down mountains is considered normal, yeah I know I can drop it to second or first gear however if I feel my brakes are up to it and can maintain a higher speed safely I would prefer to do so on a mountain 2 lane hwy and not have to deal with 2 1/2 miles of traffic honking at me when I find a safe place to pull over. While I'm not willing to put our safety at risk because of their inconvenience if I am confident occasional stabs at the brakes will bleed off enough speed I prefer to run that way
Same thing going up, I would prefer to do the speed limit up the mountain too!
As far as either emergency brake in 6 to 10% grades, in those situations both are more of a parking brake to some extent. If we were to only drive down hills or mountains at speeds that our emergency brake could stop us at we would never get anywhere, [/quote]
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| Re: [GMCnet] Supplemental brake systems, kenH [message #244855 is a reply to message #244846] |
Mon, 24 March 2014 11:29 |
corleyw
Messages: 130
Registered: June 2007
Location: Battle Ground, WA
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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"Anti-lock braking system
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Anti-lock braking system (ABS) is an automobile safety system that allows the wheels on a motor vehicle to maintain tractive contact with the road surface according to driver inputs while braking, preventing the wheels from locking up (ceasing rotation) and avoiding uncontrolled skidding. It is an automated system that uses the principles of threshold braking and cadence braking which were practiced by skillful drivers with previous generation braking systems. It does this at a much faster rate and with better control than a driver could manage."
Several other dictionary sources also confirmed.
Corley
'76 Glenbrook
29 other vehicles
[Updated on: Mon, 24 March 2014 11:31] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Supplemental brake systems, kenH [message #244858 is a reply to message #244857] |
Mon, 24 March 2014 11:39 |
Olly Schmidt
Messages: 1265
Registered: February 2014
Location: Germany and Scottsville, ...
Karma: 8
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Senior Member |
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Am 24.03.2014 17:36, schrieb Kelvin Dietz:
> On 3/24/2014 9:29 AM, Corley Wooldridge wrote:
>> Anti-lock braking system
>>
>> >From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
>>
>> Anti-lock braking system (ABS) [..]
> I hate to even partially agree with anything Mr Foster says, but there's
> also this...
>
> http://www.topspeed.com/cars/automotive-glossary/absanti-blocking-system-ar13936.html
>
> The only reference to Anti Blocking System I found, however. I've never
> heard the term "Block" used in such an odd way.
>
>
Maybe it comes from the fact that the ABS was invented by the Germans.
And in German the long form is Anti Blockier System. The first company,
according to wikipedia, that made it readily available was an American
company in the 60s. As always, the German invents stuff, and the
American perfect it and build it :)
--
Best regards
Peer Oliver Schmidt
the internet company
PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA
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Olly Schmidt
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'76a Eleganza II, VA
'73 Sequoia, SH, Germany
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| Re: [GMCnet] Supplemental brake systems, kenH [message #244859 is a reply to message #244858] |
Mon, 24 March 2014 11:55 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Germans invent neat stuff and Americans make it affordable. Everyone cannot own a Mercedes Benz approach.
Of course, now the Chinese produce it for the rest of us.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: [GMCnet] Supplemental brake systems, kenH [message #244862 is a reply to message #244858] |
Mon, 24 March 2014 12:02 |
kelvin
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2004
Location: Eugene, OR
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 3/24/2014 9:39 AM, Peer Oliver Schmidt wrote:
> Am 24.03.2014 17:36, schrieb Kelvin Dietz:
>> On 3/24/2014 9:29 AM, Corley Wooldridge wrote:
>>> Anti-lock braking system
>>>
>>> >From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
>>>
>>> Anti-lock braking system (ABS) [..]
>> I hate to even partially agree with anything Mr Foster says, but there's
>> also this...
>>
>> http://www.topspeed.com/cars/automotive-glossary/absanti-blocking-system-ar13936.html
>>
>> The only reference to Anti Blocking System I found, however. I've never
>> heard the term "Block" used in such an odd way.
>>
>>
> Maybe it comes from the fact that the ABS was invented by the Germans.
> And in German the long form is Anti Blockier System. The first company,
> according to wikipedia, that made it readily available was an American
> company in the 60s. As always, the German invents stuff, and the
> American perfect it and build it :)
Google says one of the English translations for "Blockier" is "Lock".
So... what say you, Mr Foster? Or should we be calling you Herr Foster?
It's nice of us to keep the German acronym but it seems to me even they
meant "Anti Lock System".
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Supplemental brake systems, kenH [message #244867 is a reply to message #244855] |
Mon, 24 March 2014 12:19 |
Dave Mumert
Messages: 272
Registered: February 2004
Location: Olds, AB, Canada
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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HI All
> or calling ABS braking Anti-Lock-brakes when in fact ABS is an abbreviation for Anti-BLOCK-System
The folks who mandated ABS believe ABS means Antilock Braking System.
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/documents/fhwa-abs.pdf
I can't believe I am responding to this.
I'm a bit confused about this discussion which started out as, or morphed to, liability concerns. Some of those fanning the
liability flames are the ones who are willing to accept the one ton front end upgrade. I don't understand what is so much more
frightening about better rear brakes as opposed to hacking the end off your control arm and welding on some plates so you can run a
different knuckle.
I am not concerned about the safety or reliability of the one ton upgrade. I think it is superior you the OEM system, but if your
front wheel breaks off for any reason the bottom feeding lawyers will have a field day because of the modification.
Dave Mumert
'76 Eleganza II
Alberta, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Supplemental brake systems, kenH [message #244875 is a reply to message #244871] |
Mon, 24 March 2014 13:27 |
kelvin
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2004
Location: Eugene, OR
Karma: 0
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On 3/24/2014 11:03 AM, mike foster wrote:
>
> When Mercedes-Benz developed, perfected and marketed the first electronic Anti-Blocking-System more than 30 years ago, they named it. Doesn't matter what YOU or the FEDS call it.
They named it in GERMAN, man. "Antiblockiersystem"
http://www.mein-autolexikon.de/bremse/antiblockiersystem-abs.html
We tend to translate to English (or at least Spanish) in the the US.
When you come up with something useful for this Group then you should
post. In the meantime, pipe down.
We have a number of argumentative, grumpy old guys here - but at least
most of them have something to contribute.
Just sayin'...
Kelvin
'73 23' in Eugene, OR
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| Re: [GMCnet] Supplemental brake systems, kenH [message #244877 is a reply to message #244871] |
Mon, 24 March 2014 13:31 |
Dave Mumert
Messages: 272
Registered: February 2004
Location: Olds, AB, Canada
Karma: 0
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Here is a Daimler site that has press release about their ABS
http://media.daimler.com/dcmedia/0-921-657486-1-803841-1-0-0-0-0-1-0-614318-0-1-0-0-0-0-0.html?TS=1395684977447
Here is the German from their page
Im August 1978 stellt Mercedes-Benz das gemeinsam mit Bosch entwickelte Anti-Blockier-System (ABS) der zweiten Generation in
Untertürkheim der Presse vor. Die Weltneuheit erhält die Lenkfähigkeit eines Fahrzeugs auch bei Vollbremsungen. Ab Dezember des
gleichen Jahres ist sie zunächst in den Limousinen der Mercedes-Benz S-Klasse (Baureihe 116) verfügbar.
Here is the English from the same page
In August 1978 Mercedes-Benz presented the second-generation anti-lock braking system (ABS), developed together with Bosch, to the
press in Untertürkheim. The world-first enables a driver to retain steering control even during emergency braking. From December the
innovation became available, initially in the S-Class sedans (116 series).
Here is a English-German translation site
http://www.freetranslation.com/en/translate-english-german
if you enter "anti-lock braking system" on the Englsih side you get Antiblockiersystem on the German side.
I guess you were under the impression that we were all speaking German here, even so your claim that it is called anti-block is
wrong in both English and German.
Dave Mumert
’76 Eleganza II
Alberta, CA
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of mike foster
> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 12:04 PM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Supplemental brake systems, kenH
>
>
>
> When Mercedes-Benz developed, perfected and marketed the first electronic Anti-Blocking-System more than 30 years ago, they
> named it. Doesn't matter what YOU or the FEDS call it.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Supplemental brake systems, kenH [message #244881 is a reply to message #243716] |
Mon, 24 March 2014 14:24 |
rallymaster
Messages: 662
Registered: February 2004
Location: North Plains, ORYGUN
Karma: -4
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Are we limited to referring to products or ideas in their original
language, or can we translate them to our native language? I don't
pronounce German, French, Spanish, Russian, Chinese, Japanese, etc. very
well, so nobody would know what I was trying to say anyway. Heck, I
don't even pronounce English very well. Just ask any UK resident.
===============
I don't really think that any of us believe that anything was the best
one ever made, except when the statement agrees with our thoughts on the
matter.
And most of us aren't sure whether canned beer or sliced bread was really
the item for any others to be "best thing since..."
Seems like everything, including beauty is in the eye, hand, mind, etc.
of the beholder.
On Mon, 24 Mar 2014 13:06:43 -0500 mike foster <mafoster1@bellsouth.net>
writes:
>
>
>
> Wow, you believe everything you read on Wikipedia. I guess, based on
> that you believe a Balabuska was the best billiard cue ever made.
>
>
> Kelvin Dietz wrote on Mon, 24 March 2014 11:36
> > On 3/24/2014 9:29 AM, Corley Wooldridge wrote:
> > >
> > > Anti-lock braking system
> > >
> > > >From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> > >
> > > Anti-lock braking system (ABS) is an automobile safety system
> that allows the wheels on a motor vehicle to maintain tractive
> contact with the road surface according to driver inputs while
> braking, preventing the wheels from locking up (ceasing rotation)
> and avoiding uncontrolled skidding. It is an automated system that
> uses the principles of threshold braking and cadence braking which
> were practiced by skillful drivers with previous generation braking
> systems. It does this at a much faster rate and with better control
> than a driver could manage.
> >
> > I hate to even partially agree with anything Mr Foster says, but
> there's
> > also this...
> >
> >
>
http://www.topspeed.com/cars/automotive-glossary/absanti-blocking-system-
ar13936.html
> >
> > The only reference to Anti Blocking System I found, however. I've
> never
> > heard the term "Block" used in such an odd way.
> >
> > Kelvin
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
Ron & Linda Clark
1978 GMC Eleganza II
North Plains, ORYGUN
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Ron & Linda Clark
North Plains, ORYGUN
78 Eleganza II
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