Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Fuel system upgrade progress
Fuel system upgrade progress [message #242902] |
Mon, 10 March 2014 09:17 |
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SeanKidd
Messages: 747 Registered: June 2012 Location: Northern Neck Virginia
Karma: 4
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Pretty busy weekend...I had some discoveries and pleasant surprises.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/oddsnends/p53492-emptying-tanks.html
I rigged up one of my new 100 Micron pre-filters, Carter P4070 pump and pressure guage to my battery charger. The filter was attached to the hard line that feeds the mechanical pump. I confirmed the P4070, deadheaded; max output is 6 PSI. I used the battery charger's on/off switch to prevent any stray sparks, and quickly emptied the tanks using the selector switch when one ran dry...so dry, that nothing was at he low point drain. The remaining fuel combined turned out to be about a pint!
Despite spraying PB blaster on everything last week, I broke 1 J-bolt. I also crushed the fuel tee (I have a Type-1 fill) but it is restored thanks to those who helped. Tanks are out. I found it interesting that GM designed the tanks to be lowered for sender maintenance without removing the tanks, the J-hook and detent in the rear strap facilitate this. One would just need to drain the tank and remove the fill coupling. Why would GM rivet the tank straps to the tank? was there any buffer between the strap and the tank? I think I would want something to prevent metal to metal contact...maybe plasti-dip the straps?
My tanks were remarkably clean and the OEM GM fuel lines were equally remarkably pliable. I did find significant leaking around the Main Tank sender O-Ring.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/fuel-tank-hard-line-project/p53515-source-of-fuel-smell.html
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/oddsnends/p53491-fuel-tank.html
The <warmer 50*> weather permitted me to degrease the exterior of the tanks...remnants of my maiden voyage oil line mishap still coated the tanks, I guess preventing any more rust. Not too bad, looks like the tanks were galvanized? but some surface rust had spread perhaps 30%.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/fuel-tank-hard-line-project/p53514-tanks-cleaned.html
One sender has bad feedthrough...reading 107 ohms constant, reads good at the potentiometer, so I will just replace the passthrough, the second sender was reading 17-107 ohms, tweaking got me to 1.2 and 92 ohms....close enough, I'll use that one on the main tank.
As of last night I had 2 coats of Eastwood Rust converter on the tanks, 48 hour cure and I can prime and paint. All of my parts are here, 50' 3/8, 25' 5/16 CuNiFer...Cupernickel line and all brass flare fittings. Dual pumps, 30 mesh strainers, 100 micron pre-filter, carter P4070, check valves, AC Delco GF62 filter, Henderson return line, separate vents.
Sean and Stephanie
73 Ex-CanyonLands 26' #317 "Oliver"
Hubler 1-Ton, Quad-Bags, Rear Disc, Reaction Arms, P.Huber TBs, 3.70:1 LSD Honda 6500 inverter gen.
Colonial Travelers
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Re: Fuel system upgrade progress [message #243991 is a reply to message #242902] |
Mon, 17 March 2014 19:04 |
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SeanKidd
Messages: 747 Registered: June 2012 Location: Northern Neck Virginia
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Update:
Only had one nice day...it got up to 60*. I scrubbed and degreased the frame, and applied Eastwood rust converter. I did manage to get all the electric done.
Here is my safety switch and new oil pressure sender.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6560/image132.jpg
Here are the relays,I will eventually post my schematic.
The safety switch provides power the NC side of one relay (main tank) the OEM tank selector now energizes the relay and switches to the NO side of the relay (aux). If the oil pressure safety switch opens (low pressure) it cuts power to either pump.
Simultaneously, the second relay, energized by the alternator feed, NO terminal powers the green glowing ring on my prime button, loss of power, the NC side powers a flashing red light with audible alarm. Prime button is currently located on my air compressor panel (I'm missing the panel under the steering column...eventually it will be relocated there.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6560/image131.jpg
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6560/image130.jpg
The audible flashing alarm fit next to the windshield wiper control, just needed a hole in the plastic.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6560/image128.jpg
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6560/image129.jpg
Sean and Stephanie
73 Ex-CanyonLands 26' #317 "Oliver"
Hubler 1-Ton, Quad-Bags, Rear Disc, Reaction Arms, P.Huber TBs, 3.70:1 LSD Honda 6500 inverter gen.
Colonial Travelers
[Updated on: Mon, 17 March 2014 19:18] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Fuel system upgrade progress [message #244015 is a reply to message #243994] |
Mon, 17 March 2014 21:19 |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769 Registered: February 2013 Location: Columbia, SC
Karma: 7
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Looking good.
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
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Re: Fuel system upgrade progress [message #244052 is a reply to message #242902] |
Tue, 18 March 2014 01:15 |
John Hunt
Messages: 70 Registered: January 2011 Location: Orange County, CA
Karma: 0
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Hi Sean - looking great. I would really like to see your schematic - I like the approach you're taking and I'm just about to do this. For some reason try as I might I'm seriously electrically challenged - I can do it, but I sure have to think hard about it and appreciate all the guidance from this group in this area.
I'm ceramic-coating the exterior of my newly restored tanks right now and have collected just about all of the Polyarmour, Parker fittings, and in-tank pumps. Can't wait to get this done.
John
"76 Eleganza II
Orange County, CA
1976 Eleganza II,
1969 Lotus Elan Plus 2,
1978 Merlyn Formula Ford,
1981 Lola Sports 2000
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Re: Fuel system upgrade progress [message #244055 is a reply to message #242902] |
Tue, 18 March 2014 04:32 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565 Registered: July 2012 Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Some of my antique MOPARs, had a stiff welting of some kind between the tanks and straps. Impregnated with tar or similar.
Thanks for posting. Gotta do the same job this summer.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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Re: Fuel system upgrade progress [message #244940 is a reply to message #243991] |
Tue, 25 March 2014 06:58 |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769 Registered: February 2013 Location: Columbia, SC
Karma: 7
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Sean,
I saw on another thread you were using dual carter 4070s before the selector. Where are you mounting them? There is no room on mine without moving the selector forward.
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
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Re: Fuel system upgrade progress [message #244943 is a reply to message #242902] |
Tue, 25 March 2014 07:20 |
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SeanKidd
Messages: 747 Registered: June 2012 Location: Northern Neck Virginia
Karma: 4
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Joe, I'm copying Ken Henderson's system layout...creating a bracket just forward of the aux tank, one pump on either side of new bracket, take a look at Ken's.
I'm eliminating the selector. I will have one pump per tank, check valves are required to prevent back feeding to other tank. Selector switch now controls a relay, 2 new 12V 12 AWG feeds to the pumps. High micron filters (100) will protect the inlet side of the pump, outlet will tee into one of JimKs Cadillac filter (5 micron) to protect the carb. Its redundant, but won't leave me stranded.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/5494/010_-_Dual_Fuel_Pumps.JPG
Sean and Stephanie
73 Ex-CanyonLands 26' #317 "Oliver"
Hubler 1-Ton, Quad-Bags, Rear Disc, Reaction Arms, P.Huber TBs, 3.70:1 LSD Honda 6500 inverter gen.
Colonial Travelers
[Updated on: Tue, 25 March 2014 07:21] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Fuel system upgrade progress [message #244954 is a reply to message #244943] |
Tue, 25 March 2014 08:37 |
corleyw
Messages: 130 Registered: June 2007 Location: Battle Ground, WA
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I don't know about the particular pumps you are using, but many fuel pumps already have an internal check valve, eliminating the need for external check valves. Did you try blowing in the outlet to check that?
Corley
'76 Glenbrook
29 other vehicles
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Re: Fuel system upgrade progress [message #244975 is a reply to message #244954] |
Tue, 25 March 2014 11:08 |
roy1
Messages: 2126 Registered: July 2004 Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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corleyw wrote on Tue, 25 March 2014 06:37 | I don't know about the particular pumps you are using, but many fuel pumps already have an internal check valve, eliminating the need for external check valves. Did you try blowing in the outlet to check that?
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Trust me the carter pumps don't have internal check valves.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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Re: Fuel system upgrade progress [message #244980 is a reply to message #242902] |
Tue, 25 March 2014 11:31 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896 Registered: May 2012 Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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I've always been wary of oil pressure fuel cut-off systems (though I'll probably end up with one when I finally install my fuel injection system, since it's built into the computer I'll be installing).
I prefer to have a visual / audible alert for low oil pressure, rather than having my engine "surprise me" when I least expect it (think "chugging up a steep hill at low RPM").
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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Re: Fuel system upgrade progress [message #244986 is a reply to message #244980] |
Tue, 25 March 2014 11:42 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260 Registered: January 2004 Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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habbyguy wrote on Tue, 25 March 2014 10:31 | I've always been wary of oil pressure fuel cut-off systems (though I'll probably end up with one when I finally install my fuel injection system, since it's built into the computer I'll be installing).
I prefer to have a visual / audible alert for low oil pressure, rather than having my engine "surprise me" when I least expect it (think "chugging up a steep hill at low RPM").
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I have a buzzer that alerts me of low pressure since I think I only ocassionally look at the gages. However, it relies on the additional pressure sender switch that I suppose could go bad. It's the same switch that controls my "standby" electric fuel pump. It sure is aggravating though when I have the ignition on and the engine not running.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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Re: [GMCnet] Fuel system upgrade progress [message #245070 is a reply to message #245050] |
Tue, 25 March 2014 18:23 |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769 Registered: February 2013 Location: Columbia, SC
Karma: 7
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Triggering off the oil is better than not at all.
Was pretty easy to hook up a relay that triggered off the coil being energized, for the fuel pump shutoff on the 72 bavaria - was an old school coil. Haven't looked where to hook to for that same setup in the GMC.
Until recently I did not think I had an electric pump!
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
[Updated on: Tue, 25 March 2014 18:24] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Fuel system upgrade progress [message #245642 is a reply to message #242902] |
Sat, 29 March 2014 07:46 |
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SeanKidd
Messages: 747 Registered: June 2012 Location: Northern Neck Virginia
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Here's what I did...typical Bosch 30A relay, powered from ignition source 12V, through oil pressure safety switch. Audible alarm/flashing light warns immediately any time that switch opens, when the switch is closed, the prime switch glowing green ring illuminates. JWID
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6560/image135.jpg
Sean and Stephanie
73 Ex-CanyonLands 26' #317 "Oliver"
Hubler 1-Ton, Quad-Bags, Rear Disc, Reaction Arms, P.Huber TBs, 3.70:1 LSD Honda 6500 inverter gen.
Colonial Travelers
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Re: Fuel system upgrade progress [message #245643 is a reply to message #245642] |
Sat, 29 March 2014 07:57 |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769 Registered: February 2013 Location: Columbia, SC
Karma: 7
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Thanks, Sean. Cool set up.
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
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Re: [GMCnet] Fuel system upgrade progress [message #245644 is a reply to message #245642] |
Sat, 29 March 2014 07:58 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726 Registered: March 2004 Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Good work, Sean. Including the failure warning may prove useful; I've had
several LOP switches quit, leading to peculiar problems. For example,
after one engine change it would run only a few yards or a few miles.
Turned out to be the boost pump, which was on the LOP switch, was
partially or completely filling the fuel accumulator dependent on how long
it took to start the engine. The high pressure pump was, at that time, not
on the LOP, only controlled by the computer. Had me baffled for a couple
of days. If I'd included a light, as you have, the failed LOP would have
been indicated instantly.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 7:46 AM, Sean Kidd wrote:
>
>
> Here's what I did...typical Bosch 30A relay, powered from ignition source
> 12V, through oil pressure safety switch. Audible alarm/flashing light
> warns immediately any time that switch opens, when the switch is closed,
> the prime switch glowing green ring illuminates. JWID :d
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6560/image135.jpg
>
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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Re: Fuel system upgrade progress [message #245681 is a reply to message #242902] |
Sat, 29 March 2014 13:37 |
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SeanKidd
Messages: 747 Registered: June 2012 Location: Northern Neck Virginia
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Ok, here is my strainer...in lieu of socks, I'm using this #30 mesh stainless steel. I had hoped on brazing or soldering it...no chance, nothing would stick to it and my mig burned right through. I wound up painstakingly weaving the ends of the wires through and bending them back. The external 100 micron filter will protect the pump, and the 10 micron paper element in the Delco filter will get the small stuff.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6560/image136.jpg
Here it is on the sender, I will probably put a worm clamp on to keep it in place.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6560/image137.jpg
Sean and Stephanie
73 Ex-CanyonLands 26' #317 "Oliver"
Hubler 1-Ton, Quad-Bags, Rear Disc, Reaction Arms, P.Huber TBs, 3.70:1 LSD Honda 6500 inverter gen.
Colonial Travelers
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