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| Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 [message #163030 is a reply to message #162893] |
Thu, 15 March 2012 06:04   |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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There's 'Atlanta' for ya... Griffin is 90 miles from us. Breed is Kuvasz - or Kuvaszok if there are many (the Hungarians don't really know hhow to pluralize). A couple of breeders in NC, so we see a few of the dogs there. I'm trying to hit the GMCES rally the last two days in Bowling Green on the way to a show, so if anybody wants to see my youngster in show trim (i.e. after a bath) drop by Sunday nioght or Monday
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500
Johnny,
1. I will cut the filter open. What I expect to find, if anything,
is non-magnetic -- almost all the residual debris will be babbitt
material. If there is ferrous material, it should be caught by the
FilterMag I use on both the engine and transmission external filters.
2. He's OLD -- about a week older'n me!
3. Wish we could get together, but this will be a short up & back;
actually, only to Griffin, but what would that statement mean to
anyone in CA or NZ? :-)
Oh yeah, I've forgotten the species of your big white dogs, but I
discovered that another of our long-time GMCers, in NC, has one.
Unfortunately, he hasn't used his GMC, nor visited here, in 3 years.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 8:14 PM, Johnny Bridges <jhbridges@ymail.com> wrote:
> 1. Cut the filter open and see what it caught. Run a magnet through the chaff and see how much of it is steel/iron.
> 2. Happy BD to your friend.
> 3. Tied up the whole weekend? If not, I buy you a sarsaparilla someplace in town.
>
> --johnny
> '76 23' trandmode Norris
> '76 Palm Beach
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 1:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500
>
> Larry,
>
> Thanks for the input, even though I'm 'way ahead of that: About 5
> years ago I added a temperature sender bung, about where yours is. At
> the left rear, I put a drain plug in the bottom of the pan so I don't
> have to remove the sender & can get more ATF out. Unfortunately, even
> the drain plug leaves a quart or so in the still lower cooler tube
> area, which is about 3/4"-1" deeper than a standard pan. Because I
> didn't really mean to dump all the ATF from the pan yesterday, I only
> drained to waste that above the sender bung. :-(
>
> I'm on lunch break now. When I go back to work, I've got to connect
> the H2O hose to the right rear head, refill the antifreeze & ATF, top
> off the engine oil, and crank-'er-up -- I hope. :-)
>
> Although I was very careful about cleaning the inside of the engine, I
> did not completely disassemble and hot tank it, so I want flush well
> it with motor oil: I plan to put about 50-75 miles on the oil that's
> in it now (with a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil added) before changing
> it and the filter to eliminate any serious debris that may be left.
> Then we're going to Atlanta next weekend for a friend's birthday
> party. After that 200 mile trip I'll do another oil and filter change
> before we depart next Tuesday for Shawnee. If the engine fails again,
> I seriously doubt that it will be because of residual debris.
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Larry wrote:
>>
>>
>> Ken,
>> I've been watching your adventure closely. Sorry I can't be there to help...it just isn't gonna work out this trip. Got my own troubles that I'm dealing with.
>>
>> FWIW. here is what I did with my stock tranny pan for temp sensor and draining. You have to be careful where you drill the hole in the pan making sure that there is adequate room inside the pan for sensor or brazed nut. JWID
>>
>> See this photo and two more after this one.
>>
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=3851&cat=3382
>> --
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 [message #163036 is a reply to message #163029] |
Thu, 15 March 2012 08:43 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Jim,
John and I will be happy to "rescue" you AGAIN if necessary.
However, if it's sympathy you're after here's an expression I learned in my
four years in the USAF; "if you're looking for sympathy it's between S#!T
and syphilis in the dictionary!"
;-)
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Kanomata
Ken,
One way or another, I will be there in Shawnee.
I have Rob Muller and John Sharp standing by to pick me up at Houston
Airport and Dan Gregg at Oklahoma city just in case I have failer.
Frank Jenkins will be smiling like Possum eating S--T should I not
pull in with my coach. Now, I would have little more sympathy and not
do the Possum thing.
I learned that expression during my 5 years at OU in Norman, also
learned a lot about football to.
Hope you fix that weak ignition.
Jim
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 [message #163061 is a reply to message #163029] |
Thu, 15 March 2012 11:53 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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Jim, Judy and I could also pick you up at OKC
Will Rogers Airport if need be. We live just
about 15 miles straight east of the airport!
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~~ k2gkk @ hotmail dot com ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ex-Palm Beach, 76 ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
_______________
*[ ]....[][ ][]\
*--OO---[]---O-*
> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 23:22:28 -0700
> From: jimkanomata@gmail.com
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500
>
> Ken,
> Had to run up to Oregon to do Hepa filter certification for the VA
> Hospital and at the same time exchange RandyGrubb's BLASTOLENE final
> ratio from the 3.70 to a 3.55 as his Super Coach is only 6-7K lbs in
> weight.
> I have few more things to do before I fire up the 540.
> Believe it or not, I'm planning to leave next Wed evening.
> One way or another, I will be there in Shawnee.
> I have Rob Muller and John Sharp standing by to pick me up at Houston
> Airport and Dan Gregg at Oklahoma city just in case I have failer.
> Frank Jenkins will be smiling like Possum eating S--T should I not
> pull in with my coach. Now, I would have little more sympathy and not
> do the Possum thing.
> I learned that expression during my 5 years at OU in Norman, also
> learned a lot about football to.
> Hope you fix that weak ignition.
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > Well, I flunked crank-er'-up still again.
> >
> > I got sort of a late start, but it didn't take long to find out why
> > the engine wouldn't start: the IGN 10A CB for the EFI was tripping a
> > couple of seconds after turning the key on -- WUD was very helpful in
> > discovering that. After trying everything else, I found that the VSS
> > was shorting the IGN. With it disconnected, the engine still wouldn't
> > fire. The fuel spray looked a little strange to me, so I added more
> > gas to the tanks with no improvement. A spark indicator showed
> > suspiciously weak spark. After too much trying, it finally fired off
> > and ran for a couple of minutes, then died again. After too much more
> > trying, it fired off and ran badly for a minute or so before
> > backfiring and dying again.
> >
> > After that, it never ran again. During the first short run, I'd begun
> > to try to set the timing by light. I got it running smoother, but
> > didn't get it locked down before the engine died. After the second
> > run I decided to try to at least get the timing closer by light-timing
> > while cranking. The timing light would only flash intermittently.
> > After a careful static re-time, I tried again to use the light -- no
> > flashee.
> >
> > By the time I reached the conclusion Burton & others have been jumping
> > up & down trying to tell me, it was too late for me to go get a new
> > module. Only after I drug my exhausted butt to the shower and supper
> > did I remember that the Olds in the shop has a 7-pin module in it.
> > Tomorrow.
> >
> > I'm getting too old for this foolishness. I just want it to RUN, not
> > teach me Murphy's Law. :-)
> >
> > Ken H.
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 [message #163108 is a reply to message #163015] |
Thu, 15 March 2012 21:15 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Hooray!!! I passed start-'er-up today, finally!
I was delayed until almost 3 PM by 95 yo problems. Then the 75 yo
problems began. I bought a new ignition module to satisfy yesterday's
diagnosis. After installing it, the spark indicator was a little more
reliable and the timing strobe USUALLY flashed -- but no life to the
engine a'tall. So, once more I went through all the setup stuff:
Find #1 TDC, set crank with the timing indicator at exactly the
desired BTDC, rotate the distributor to set the reluctor & pickup
points together. With that all set up -- AGAIN -- I did something I
should have done a long time ago: Fabricated a simple stiff wire
pointer to mount under a convenient bolt with the free end adjacent to
a scribe mark on the distributor body. Now, if I tinker with the
setting, I can easily get back to an exactly known setting.
With the air cleaner cover off, try starting again -- STILL no workee
-- even with the strobe flashing, showing the planned 10* BTDC, and
both injectors squirting nice cones.
About then, Stick showed up, so he can testify to my frustration and
the gymnastics I went through: Finally resorting to reading the
manual, I started through the EFI troubleshooting charts and wiring
diagrams -- not necessarily in any logical order. First steps of the
troubleshooting procedure: 1. Ignition on. 2. Is SES light
illuminated NOPE! So, I spent 30-45 minutes trying to figure out why
the LED Service Engine Soon warning indicator on my custom dash was no
longer working. I STILL don't know, but I finally got around to
connecting a test lamp in place of it and getting that to shine.
After lots of other tests, including Ohming-out every ground
connection, I decided the wiring was still OK and that there were no
disconnected leads like those that delayed my first re-start. So I
sat and thought about the rules: With fuel, compression (which I had
redundantly checked), and spark, all now obviously at the correct
times, it's GOT to run! But it doesn't. What have I NOT replaced?
How 'bout the coil? It's putting out, I KNOW that (I even got bitten
once yesterday), but it's not NEW.
Stick had to go to the spelling bee then, so I lost my moral support.
That didn't stop me from tearing down the HEI distributor cap to
remove the coil -- a first for me! Can you believe that after all
these years, that's true??? I didn't know that the coil cover, held
on with two (sometimes 3) self-tapping screws conceals the coil and
the 5 terminals inside that little overhang on the side. The coil is
held into the cap with another 4 self-tapping screws through the iron
core, one of those also retains a wire lead from the coil winding.
Still another presses the core down against a convoluted metal strip
which makes up the center terminal of the 3-contact inner connector.
The outer two of those terminals are the BATT and TACH terminals, and
extend to those outer two locations where the single connectors
attach. Those terminals just seat in spaces in the distributor cap
and are retained by the coil cover.
Guess what -- that center terminal under the coil core was as rusted
as if it had been laying out in the yard for 36 years, instead of
hidden under there!
When I tore down my nearly-new Cad non-computer controlled distributor
cap, I found a nice shiny new coil with 3 shiny terminals, so I popped
them into the cap still on the engine.
Hit the starter ... Varooom! It runs!!! Hallelujah!!!
And even after I shut it down, it did it again. And again,..And Again!
If I had just Ohm'd out the assembled distributor cap/coil
combination, I'd probably have found the bad connection in the coil
primary caused by that rusty strip. :-(
I finally let it run long enough to get hot, then shut it down and
drained the oil. With a jug of oil sitting at the driver's seat (so I
can't forget there's none in the engine), I left it to drain for the
night and came in to brag to HER about how I got IT running -- after
only 3 wasted days of dumb "troubleshooting". :-)
We'll make it to Shawnee yet! That's a challenge, JimK.
Ken H.
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Ken Henderson wrote:
> Well, I flunked crank-er'-up still again.
>...
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 [message #163127 is a reply to message #163122] |
Fri, 16 March 2012 01:30 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
Good work.
I just got back from Oregon, so I need to see what our mechanic did on
my coach while I was gone.
I dropped off a 3.55 to Randy Grubb for his Blasto lean coach.
This was the first time I seen it since it was polished and painted.
He even took me up on the deck and was going to le me drive it.
Since it was sprinkling, I refused to drive it as I might have run
into some thing.
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 10:15 PM, Steve Clevenger
<steveclevenger@runbox.com> wrote:
>
>
> That's great! Even after "chasing your tail". it still gives you a feeling of satisfaction when it comes to life & runs like it should.
>
> Great description of the coil. I visualized it, as I remembered the first time I tore mine apart.
>
>
> --
> Steve Clevenger
> 1976 Transmode 230
> West Fork, AR
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 [message #163128 is a reply to message #163108] |
Fri, 16 March 2012 01:37 |
 |
ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Excellent news! Congratulations on beating the beast.
Larry Davick
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 15, 2012, at 7:15 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Hooray!!! I passed start-'er-up today, finally!
>
> I was delayed until almost 3 PM by 95 yo problems. Then the 75 yo
> problems began. I bought a new ignition module to satisfy yesterday's
> diagnosis. After installing it, the spark indicator was a little more
> reliable and the timing strobe USUALLY flashed -- but no life to the
> engine a'tall. So, once more I went through all the setup stuff:
> Find #1 TDC, set crank with the timing indicator at exactly the
> desired BTDC, rotate the distributor to set the reluctor & pickup
> points together. With that all set up -- AGAIN -- I did something I
> should have done a long time ago: Fabricated a simple stiff wire
> pointer to mount under a convenient bolt with the free end adjacent to
> a scribe mark on the distributor body. Now, if I tinker with the
> setting, I can easily get back to an exactly known setting.
>
> With the air cleaner cover off, try starting again -- STILL no workee
> -- even with the strobe flashing, showing the planned 10* BTDC, and
> both injectors squirting nice cones.
>
> About then, Stick showed up, so he can testify to my frustration and
> the gymnastics I went through: Finally resorting to reading the
> manual, I started through the EFI troubleshooting charts and wiring
> diagrams -- not necessarily in any logical order. First steps of the
> troubleshooting procedure: 1. Ignition on. 2. Is SES light
> illuminated NOPE! So, I spent 30-45 minutes trying to figure out why
> the LED Service Engine Soon warning indicator on my custom dash was no
> longer working. I STILL don't know, but I finally got around to
> connecting a test lamp in place of it and getting that to shine.
>
> After lots of other tests, including Ohming-out every ground
> connection, I decided the wiring was still OK and that there were no
> disconnected leads like those that delayed my first re-start. So I
> sat and thought about the rules: With fuel, compression (which I had
> redundantly checked), and spark, all now obviously at the correct
> times, it's GOT to run! But it doesn't. What have I NOT replaced?
> How 'bout the coil? It's putting out, I KNOW that (I even got bitten
> once yesterday), but it's not NEW.
>
> Stick had to go to the spelling bee then, so I lost my moral support.
> That didn't stop me from tearing down the HEI distributor cap to
> remove the coil -- a first for me! Can you believe that after all
> these years, that's true??? I didn't know that the coil cover, held
> on with two (sometimes 3) self-tapping screws conceals the coil and
> the 5 terminals inside that little overhang on the side. The coil is
> held into the cap with another 4 self-tapping screws through the iron
> core, one of those also retains a wire lead from the coil winding.
> Still another presses the core down against a convoluted metal strip
> which makes up the center terminal of the 3-contact inner connector.
> The outer two of those terminals are the BATT and TACH terminals, and
> extend to those outer two locations where the single connectors
> attach. Those terminals just seat in spaces in the distributor cap
> and are retained by the coil cover.
>
> Guess what -- that center terminal under the coil core was as rusted
> as if it had been laying out in the yard for 36 years, instead of
> hidden under there!
>
> When I tore down my nearly-new Cad non-computer controlled distributor
> cap, I found a nice shiny new coil with 3 shiny terminals, so I popped
> them into the cap still on the engine.
>
> Hit the starter ... Varooom! It runs!!! Hallelujah!!!
>
> And even after I shut it down, it did it again. And again,..And Again!
>
> If I had just Ohm'd out the assembled distributor cap/coil
> combination, I'd probably have found the bad connection in the coil
> primary caused by that rusty strip. :-(
>
> I finally let it run long enough to get hot, then shut it down and
> drained the oil. With a jug of oil sitting at the driver's seat (so I
> can't forget there's none in the engine), I left it to drain for the
> night and came in to brag to HER about how I got IT running -- after
> only 3 wasted days of dumb "troubleshooting". :-)
>
> We'll make it to Shawnee yet! That's a challenge, JimK.
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Ken Henderson wrote:
>> Well, I flunked crank-er'-up still again.
>> ...
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 [message #163138 is a reply to message #163137] |
Fri, 16 March 2012 08:14 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Isn't that the truth! It's truly amazing how unrelated problems seem
to crop up when major changes are made. In this case, first the VSS
shorting out the ignition, then the coil corrosion failure -- which,
by all rights, should have failed long ago -- probably years.
Hope today doesn't sprout new surprises.
Ken H.
On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Larry wrote:
>
>
> Amazing...isn't it. Â Take something apart on our GMC's. fix it and reassemble...not changing ANYTHING accept what you intended to fix. Â Yet always a couple of "gotch-ya's"....usually completely UNRELATED to the original problem. Â I mean all your doing is putting the rest back together the way it came apart...right? Â AHHHH....Murphy at its finest....
> --
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 [message #163220 is a reply to message #163137] |
Fri, 16 March 2012 20:39 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Today was the best so far -- but still Murphyized.
I cut the filter open first thing to check for debris. The FilterMag
had captured more iron dust than I'd expected, but no particles large
enough to distinguish. The filter element showed an occasional flash
of copper color, but probably no more than I'd expected.
After refilling with oil, I enjoyed cranking the engine a few times --
that having been such a frustrating operation for the past few days.
Then I went to the gas station to fill up. Even though I'd dumped 10
gallons into the "nearly empty" tanks, they still took $111.40 to
fill. :-(
Then I hit the starter to pull away from the pum.
RRRRrrrrRRRRrrrrRRRR... NO Vrooom! OH NO!, Not AGAIN!???
Up with the hatch & off with the air cleaner cover. No spray! Just a
dribble. Whaaat??? Fortunately there wasn't much traffic at the
station, and they're sort of use to my eccentricities, so no big flap.
Hmmmm.
Finally, I got out and walked around to just behind the driver's side
mud flap, where the high pressure pump is, and knelt down to see what
I might see. The attendant asked if I wanted a hammer just as I
rapped on the pump with my knuckles. Asking him to listen for the
sound of the pump, I went back to the cockpit and turned the key:
Vrooom! :-))
After a 10 mile or so drive, without shutting down again, I went home
and got back on the rack. Then I noticed that the high pressure pump
is now MUCH noisier that ever before, sometimes really screeching.
Mystery solved -- it's junk. Fortunately, I have a spare so I'll
instll it tomorrow.
When I ordered a replacement spare this afternoon, I decided now's the
time to try something different. I've always used the Airtex/Master
E8228, as provided by Howell, despite the fact that I don't understand
using a 125 psi pump to get 17 psi out of the regulator. So, I
ordered an E8094, specifically for GM TBI applications and rated at
12-17 psi, 45-50 GPH. I realize that may not be enough pressure for
the Holley TB since I'm using 17 psi to feed its small injectors. But
when I install the 454 TB I bought last week, it should be ideal. If
I get stranded before then, perhaps I can at least limp to safety with
that spare (I'll carry the noisy E8228 too).
Wonder what else Murphy has in store for me?
Ken H.
On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Larry <weidnerl@wwt.net> wrote:
>
>
> Amazing...isn't it. Â Take something apart on our GMC's. fix it and reassemble...not changing ANYTHING accept what you intended to fix. Â Yet always a couple of "gotch-ya's"....usually completely UNRELATED to the original problem. Â I mean all your doing is putting the rest back together the way it came apart...right? Â AHHHH....Murphy at its finest....
> --
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 [message #163241 is a reply to message #163220] |
Sat, 17 March 2012 00:41 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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Senior Member |
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| Ken Henderson wrote on Fri, 16 March 2012 18:39 |
Today was the best so far -- but still Murphyized.
I cut the filter open first thing to check for debris. The FilterMag
had captured more iron dust than I'd expected, but no particles large
enough to distinguish. The filter element showed an occasional flash
of copper color, but probably no more than I'd expected.
Then I hit the starter to pull away from the pum.
RRRRrrrrRRRRrrrrRRRR... NO Vrooom! OH NO!, Not AGAIN!???
Finally, I got out and walked around to just behind the driver's side
mud flap, where the high pressure pump is, and knelt down to see what
I might see. The attendant asked if I wanted a hammer just as I
rapped on the pump with my knuckles. Asking him to listen for the
sound of the pump, I went back to the cockpit and turned the key:
Vrooom!  )
Wonder what else Murphy has in store for me?
Ken H.
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Wow, Ken. This has really been a job. For a guy who is so meticulous with his wiring and then to have the coil corroded? Not fair.
Glad it is running. I had a Howell original start grinding and whining, with pressure down to 4. I had about 35K miles on it, which is not as long as I would have through it was going to last. Carry a spare, of course. I changed that one under _the_ tree in Utah on the way to Goshen.
At least the coil and pump didn't get a chance to strand you on the trip to Shawnee.
Just a bit of history. I had an intermittent starting/stalling problem for a couple of years. It rarely rarely happened. It often happened right after startup to the point that I began to wonder if turning to the left (to pull onto a road) was causing it. Like you I chased wires and chased wires, including the coil. New coil. Cleaning coil contacts. Of course it would start and I would think it was fixed. Two months later or two seconds later I would have it again. Finally one weekend it really got bad. I found just restarting sometimes got me going, but I was along side the road more than on it the last half hour.
My problem? Module. Changed it. It started instantly and I have about 4K miles since.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 [message #163243 is a reply to message #163241] |
Sat, 17 March 2012 03:32 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Now that I've found the coil problem, I'm not sure the module was bad,
though I suppose the coil could have taken it out too. I'll hang onto
the module and re-install it for test after we return from Shawnee.
Ken H.
On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 1:41 AM, George Beckman <gbeckman@pggp.com> wrote:
>...
> My problem? Module. Changed it. It started instantly and I have about 4K miles since.
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 [message #163261 is a reply to message #163243] |
Sat, 17 March 2012 10:43 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Ken, I have found through personal experience with several different
designs of high energy ignitions, including GM HEI, that because of the
high voltages and therefore accompanying very strong electromagnetic
fields, that rust is a problem inside the caps, particularly on the
mechanical advance weight pins and springs. Also, iron oxides seem to
collect inside the cap in the area of the center carbon brush that comes
from the coil as well as the spark plug terminals. Often times when the
ignition coil is removed from the top of the cap, we find what you have
found. Corrosion and rust which becomes a conductor, then fuses into carbon
that shorts out the coils. Only solution is periodic maintence. Nothing in
a spray can I have found works. Kinda just have to disassemble and use very
clean towels to remove it. Long term storage and wide temperature/humidity
swings seem to aggravate the problem. Probably has some effect on the short
life of the modules that many GMCers are experiencing too.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 1:32 AM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> Now that I've found the coil problem, I'm not sure the module was bad,
> though I suppose the coil could have taken it out too. I'll hang onto
> the module and re-install it for test after we return from Shawnee.
>
> Ken H.
>
> On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 1:41 AM, George Beckman <gbeckman@pggp.com> wrote:
> >...
> > My problem? Module. Changed it. It started instantly and I have about 4K
> miles since.
> >
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| Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 [message #163293 is a reply to message #163261] |
Sat, 17 March 2012 18:25 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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I was surprised to remember that I'd never before opened an HEI cap.
Most things I wind up tearing apart long before there's any reason to,
just to see what's in there (learned as a little kid that I could
never be a clockmaker). That being the case, I suspect you're right
about the root cause of many module failures being the coil & cap &
terminals. That assembly appears to me to be one more place everyone
ought to spend a little preventative maintenance time. It could
hardly be simpler to disassemble, clean, lubricate and reassemble it.
Especially on the Olds with the distributor right there in the most
accessible location on the engine and with a quick-disconnect cap.
The Cad500 flunks both of those criteria -- the distributor is 'way up
front and the cap's held on with 4 screws (wonder why they did that?).
I'll try to do an especially good job on it when I get back from
Shawnee.
Speaking of the clock: In about 1967 SHE and I made a short trip from
Hawaii to Japan. We brought back a pretty nice "see the works" alarm
clocks for our son and daughter. I think she's still got, and uses,
hers; his didn't last a week -- like father, like son. :-)
Ken H.
On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 11:43 AM, James Hupy wrote:
> Ken, I have found through personal experience with several different
> designs of high energy ignitions, including GM HEI, that because of the
> high voltages and therefore accompanying very strong electromagnetic
> fields, that rust is a problem inside the caps, particularly on the
> mechanical advance weight pins and springs. Also, iron oxides seem to
> collect inside the cap in the area of the center carbon brush that comes
> from the coil as well as the spark plug terminals. Often times when the
> ignition coil is removed from the top of the cap, we find what you have
> found. Corrosion and rust which becomes a conductor, then fuses into carbon
> that shorts out the coils. Only solution is periodic maintence. Nothing in
> a spray can I have found works. Kinda just have to disassemble and use very
> clean towels to remove it. Long term storage and wide temperature/humidity
> swings seem to aggravate the problem. Probably has some effect on the short
> life of the modules that many GMCers are experiencing too.
> Jim Hupy
...
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 [message #163295 is a reply to message #163138] |
Sat, 17 March 2012 18:46 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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It is always something extra going wrong.
I went out today to replace the engine battery in my airplane and take a flight of about 100 miles. It should ave been a 15 minute job. I immediately got stuck working on two chain saws for a friend who showed up unannounced which put me a several hours behind schedule. I discovered that my ELT battery is expired so I replaced it. Simple additional job. Well it took installing it 3 times to get the ELT working properly. Finally I got to the engine battery and after replacing it I discovered that the starter wound not crank. It turned out the the 35 y4r old starter push button was bad. Not having a spare switch I took the old one apart and cleaned it. The worse problem was removing and installing it. I had to tear apart 1/4 of the instrument panel to get the old switch out. This whole process took me about 2.5 hours
The airplane was now running but by now it is dark out so I gave up on the trip because the destination airport did not have runway lights.
I took the airplane for short test flight instead. On return to the airport about 15 minutes later I found the runway lights were out and I also could not bring them up by pilot control. No big deal. As I turned final in the crosswind my landing light decided no to work. I worked a few minutes ago when I took off. Also the runway lights worked when I took off. I tried pilot control of the runway lights and nothing I tried the landing light switch and circuit breaker on the air plane and nothing. So I landed in the complete darkness (no moon). I flared high and dropped a foot at a time feeling for the pavement on each step. I only missed the center line by about 10 feet. I had a 150 feet wide by 7000 foot runway so that was no big deal. Taxiing back to the hangar was also fun with no lights.
After I got on the ground I called the airport manager. He came out and we found that the commercial power failed. The back up generator also failed to start. It is tested for correct operation every Friday morning. This Friday evening. This the first time in 45 years either of us could ever remember ALL of the lights failing. We have a had a few go out because of lightning strikes but never the whole airport.
All of these non-related problems started because of my 15 minute job of replacing a 13 year old battery.
Everything is is fixed now so maybe I'll make the trip Monday.
This morning I un-winterized my coach and filled it with water. Again Murphy did me in. I have cold water, but just a trickle from the the faucets on the hot side. Guess what tomorrows project is after I attend an afternoon funeral.
My Honda scooter that I bring to the rallies would not start after it's winter hibernation. After spending 45 minutes taking the entire rear end apart to get to the carb I decided to blow into the gas tank to force fuel towards the fuel pump. It started right up. Then I got to spend another 45 minutes reassembling the scooter again.
So, Do not feel bad Ken. Nothing ever goes right for me either.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 [message #163300 is a reply to message #163295] |
Sat, 17 March 2012 19:24 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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""So, Do not feel bad Ken. Nothing ever goes right for me either. ::
Wow Ken--I think I'd be drunk long before you got through that scenario
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 [message #163302 is a reply to message #163300] |
Sat, 17 March 2012 19:31 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Bob de Kruyff wrote on Sat, 17 March 2012 19:24 |
""So, Do not feel bad Ken. Nothing ever goes right for me either. ::
Wow Ken--I think I'd be drunk long before you got through that scenario
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With my luck it is just another normal day around here. I never get anything done correctly or easily the first time.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Reviving the Cad 500 [message #163309 is a reply to message #163295] |
Sat, 17 March 2012 19:40 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
You've warmed the cockles of my heart (whatever the heck that means!).
Now I don't feel nearly as bad about my week with all it's
defugalties.
Today went a little better:
I tackled the shorted VSS. Turns out, I'd had to work on it once
before. There are 3 leads (+12VDC, Gnd, Output) coming out of a small
molded plastic housing which contains the Hall Effect sensor and
whatever other circuitry. Those wires have VERY heat sensitive
insulation and are of larger than necessary gauge. When I worked on
it before, the length of the accessible wires was left at about 5/16".
There is no residual insulation on any one of the 3 wires -- just one
glob through which the wires run. I was able to spread the wires 120*
apart and solder new long leads to them without creating a new short
-- at least for now. Then I covered the whole mess with Shoe Goop
(Yes, that's what I said -- it's good stuff for lots of things and
sets up fast). Then put a couple of layers of shrink tube over each
wire, extending down into the Goop. Finally, several layers of shrink
tube over all 3 wires and the exposed portion of the housing. MAYBE
it will hold up down there under the exhaust manifold. Or maybe I'll
soon re-install a short speedometer cable to position the VSS in a
cooler area.
For the first time, I disassembled the whole VSS. Its housing
consists of two shells sealed with a gasket and held together with 4
machine screws. In one half is a wheel containing magnets oriented
perpendicular to the above mentioned sealed module. As one pole of a
magnet passes the Hall Effect sensor, the output line is Set. When a
pole of the opposite polarity passes, the output line is Reset. So,
the establishment of the "2-pulse" or "4-pulse" or other rating is
determined by the number of magnets in the molded magnet wheel -- sort
of like the Pertronix ignition modules. It's easy to test -- don't
need the 'scope or rotary driver I've used in the past: Just supply
power and monitor the output with an analog meter -- or possibly a
test lamp or LED.
Another good event today: I installed the E8094 fuel pump. 17psi max
vs the 125 psi max E8228. I'd expected to have to touch up the
regulator setting. Nope. It runs just fine as-is. During a
subsequent test drive, I even did a full-throttle hill climb which
called for 96% injector duty cycle -- no sign of any starvation. I'm
happy.
We'll be making a 200 mile test run tomorrow for Jerry Holloway's
birthday party. If all goes well, we'll head for Shawnee on Tuesday
AM.
Ken H.
On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 7:46 PM, Ken Burton wrote:
>
>
> It is always something extra going wrong.
>
> I went out today to replace the engine battery in my airplane and take a flight of about 100 miles. Â It should ave been a 15 minute job. Â I immediately got stuck working on two chain saws for a friend who showed up unannounced which put me a several hours behind schedule.
...
> So, Do not feel bad Ken. Â Nothing ever goes right for me either.
> --
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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