I Need Advice about Air Bag System Leaks [message #159724] |
Thu, 09 February 2012 12:48 |
bess
Messages: 46 Registered: September 2011 Location: Illinois
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Can Someone Please give me some Advice on what to do Next. Keep in Mind that I am too Old and Not Mechanically Inclined to Fix Anything Myself. The Motorhome is Leaking Air. I have taken it to 2 Different Places trying to find the Leaks. Both Places said the Air Bags are Not Leaking. One place told me there was a Very Small Leak in a Plastic Washer close to the Air Bag that didn't amount to much which is on the Drivers side - the Other Place worked on it for a number of hours and said there were 5 Leaks alone on the Drivers Side in the Fittings that they fixed but there was still another leak somewhere because in a 24 hour Period - it was going down 1/2". After they fixed the leaks they found - it does ride higher and I believe drives a little better than it did. On the way home, I left the switch on Auto instead of Hold and the compressor came on several times in 12 miles. I have had it home 10 days now - had the Switch on Hold - and still the back end is sinking. The Drivers Side has dropped down 2 1/2" from the measurement I took after the compressor had the air bags full 10 days ago - the Passenger Side is down 5 1/2". The last place that fixerd it said it would be quite expensive to take the whole system out and replace it. I have already spent over $400 chasing Air Leaks. Does Anyone have Any Ideas what I should try next or should I just leave it alone? I want to take a trip in a month or so and am trying to get the problems fixed in advance.
Bess Brenenstall
Elvaston, Illinois
1976 Birchaven
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Re: I Need Advice about Air Bag System Leaks [message #159726 is a reply to message #159724] |
Thu, 09 February 2012 12:54 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260 Registered: January 2004 Location: Chandler, AZ
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bess wrote on Thu, 09 February 2012 11:48 | Can Someone Please give me some Advice on what to do Next. Keep in Mind that I am too Old and Not Mechanically Inclined to Fix Anything Myself. The Motorhome is Leaking Air. I have taken it to 2 Different Places trying to find the Leaks. Both Places said the Air Bags are Not Leaking. One place told me there was a Very Small Leak in a Plastic Washer close to the Air Bag that didn't amount to much which is on the Drivers side - the Other Place worked on it for a number of hours and said there were 5 Leaks alone on the Drivers Side in the Fittings that they fixed but there was still another leak somewhere because in a 24 hour Period - it was going down 1/2". After they fixed the leaks they found - it does ride higher and I believe drives a little better than it did. On the way home, I left the switch on Auto instead of Hold and the compressor came on several times in 12 miles. I have had it home 10 days now - had the Switch on Hold - and still the back end is sinking. The Drivers Side has dropped down 2 1/2" from the measurement I took after the compressor had the air bags full 10 days ago - the Passenger Side is down 5 1/2". The last place that fixerd it said it would be quite expensive to take the whole system out and replace it. I have already spent over $400 chasing Air Leaks. Does Anyone have Any Ideas what I should try next or should I just leave it alone? I want to take a trip in a month or so and am trying to get the problems fixed in advance.
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Bess-there may be a GMC'r close by that can help, but frankly, I think you can get by with that amount of leakage depending how you use your coach. If it sags only 1/2" in 24 hours, you should be able to use it with no problems and the compressor can handle that. If the coach is parked without using it, it won't hurt it to just let it go down in the rear.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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Re: I Need Advice about Air Bag System Leaks [message #159728 is a reply to message #159726] |
Thu, 09 February 2012 13:05 |
bess
Messages: 46 Registered: September 2011 Location: Illinois
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Thanks Bob, I really didn't know if I should get something done before I try to go somewhere or not. The longest trip I have been on before I got it "fixed" was under 150 miles and the rear sank when parked on that one too and I was only parked 3 days.
Bess Brenenstall
Elvaston, Illinois
1976 Birchaven
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Re: I Need Advice about Air Bag System Leaks [message #159729 is a reply to message #159728] |
Thu, 09 February 2012 13:12 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260 Registered: January 2004 Location: Chandler, AZ
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Some others may disagree with me, but you could easily just start it once a day for a few minutes to bring it back up. There are other solutions such as shut off valves but you will need someone to help with the install even though they are an inexpensive work-around.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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Re: I Need Advice about Air Bag System Leaks [message #159732 is a reply to message #159729] |
Thu, 09 February 2012 14:12 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005 Registered: August 2004 Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Bess, It would help if we knew what air system was installed in the coach. Since it sounds like you have one compressor (that you can hear)(up front in the engine compartment, mounted to the driver's side of the radiator), I would assume that you have the original power level system. A major leak point are the old control valves. If you have the power level valves located right near your driver side right knee (in lower dash), you can remove the four screws that hold it in place (carefully, because the plastic is brittle and old) pull it out just a little (so that you can see the back), start the engine, run the air system and when the air tank is full, and the compressor cuts off, spray the backside of the valve body (where the air lines come in) with some soapy water and look for bubbles. You may have to turn the knobs to the travel position for air to move into the valve body. If it bubbles, you know where to apply your repair efforts.
If everything is working fine, you can drive with the air compressor cycling on and off. It may be a minor annoyance, but will not cause any damage.
Tom Phipps, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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Re: [GMCnet] I Need Advice about Air Bag System Leaks [message #159744 is a reply to message #159724] |
Thu, 09 February 2012 15:40 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912 Registered: July 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Bes,
If you want to have it repaired by someone that KNOWS what they're doing contact Tom Hampton. I realize that his shop is 460 miles
from Elvaston but you've already spent over $400 chasing the leaks without fixing the problem money spent to get your GMC over to
his shop would be money well spent as he WILL fix it! Be advised, however, that Tom works by appointment only and it may take awhile
to get into his shop.
Here's the contact details:
Tom & Nina Hampton
Grandview Motorhomes
13880 West Weaver Road
Marysville, Ohio 43040
Tel: (937) 644-4238
Email: grandviewh@peoplepc.com
I have Cc'd Tom on this email to give him a heads up that you might be contacting him.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bes Brenenstall
Can Someone Please give me some Advice on what to do Next. Keep in Mind that I am too Old and Not Mechanically Inclined to Fix
Anything Myself. The Motorhome is Leaking Air. I have taken it to 2 Different Places trying to find the Leaks. Both Places said
the Air Bags are Not Leaking. One place told me there was a Very Small Leak in a Plastic Washer close to the Air Bag that didn't
amount to much which is on the Drivers side - the Other Place worked on it for a number of hours and said there were 5 Leaks alone
on the Drivers Side in the Fittings that they fixed but there was still another leak somewhere because in a 24 hour Period - it was
going down 1/2". After they fixed the leaks they found - it does ride higher and I believe drives a little better than it did. On
the way home, I left the switch on Auto instead of Hold and the compressor came on several times in 12 miles. I have had it home
10 days now - had the Switch on Hold - and still the back end is sinking. Th
e Drivers Side has dropped down 2 1/2" from the measurement I took after the compressor had the air bags full 10 days ago - the
Passenger Side is down 5 1/2". The last place that fixerd it said it would be quite expensive to take the whole system out and
replace it. I have already spent over $400 chasing Air Leaks. Does Anyone have Any Ideas what I should try next or should I just
leave it alone? I want to take a trip in a month or so and am trying to get the problems fixed in advance.
--
Bess Brenenstall
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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Re: I Need Advice about Air Bag System Leaks [message #159750 is a reply to message #159732] |
Thu, 09 February 2012 16:02 |
bess
Messages: 46 Registered: September 2011 Location: Illinois
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Hi Tom, What ever was Original to the Birchaven Air System is still on the Motorhome. The Compressor is under the Refrigerator and near the Back of the Motorhome but you can hear it when it comes on. It is a little louder now then before I had it worked on. I started Her up this afternoon to get it back to level and the Compressor ran around 15 minutes to get it aired back up. Yes it has the Original Leveling System too and it is right where you said on the dash near the Knee. I will ask the Guy who worked on it if he checked the valves on the leveling system. When I took it to him - the Passenger Side would level just fine, but the Drivers Side would go down but not back up. He said that this worked just fine now, but I havn't tried it. As long as it won't ruin the compressor when it runs so much - I will leave well enough alone for now. Thanks for Your Help
Bess Brenenstall
Elvaston, Illinois
1976 Birchaven
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Re: I Need Advice about Air Bag System Leaks [message #159759 is a reply to message #159754] |
Thu, 09 February 2012 16:36 |
bess
Messages: 46 Registered: September 2011 Location: Illinois
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Thanks for the advice sgltrac, I will definitely do that so it won't be that hard on the compressor. Another Wonderful Black List Member had told me quite awhile ago about blocking the Bogies when I put her away for the Winter to take the Pressure off of the Air Bags so I already have the 4x4s to put under her. What he Didn't realize (because I thought it was "normal") was that there wasn't any pressure on the airbags because the system was leaking air. The Guy I Bought her from told me that when it is parked - it is normal for the back end to go down so I didn't question it.
Bess Brenenstall
Elvaston, Illinois
1976 Birchaven
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Re: I Need Advice about Air Bag System Leaks [message #159760 is a reply to message #159754] |
Thu, 09 February 2012 16:37 |
chasingsummer
Messages: 434 Registered: May 2011 Location: asheboro, nc
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when mine is parked at the house, i put a block under each bogie (i guess is what it is called) and let air out til coach rest on blocks, other wise my system would leak down close to what yours did. do u have the air cut off valves at the bags?
until air system makes it to the top of my to do list i use them when parked for any lenght of time. . raise or lower to proper height then turn valve at bags off and place knob inside coach to hold.
when i start coach i turn on valve at bags and turn knob to travel. then i spend a minute or 3 doing a walk around. double check air pressure in tires, double check gen cover and propane tank cover are closed. antenna down, etc etc. within this walk around coach is ready to ride.
is anyone on black list close to u? that is where you will find ost of your help with such issues. i have found them eagar to help, as well as more experienced with our coach than anyone else.
brian
asheboro, nc
75 eleganza, 74 build
119k miles and counting,
DOG HOUSE
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Re: I Need Advice about Air Bag System Leaks [message #159764 is a reply to message #159760] |
Thu, 09 February 2012 16:56 |
bess
Messages: 46 Registered: September 2011 Location: Illinois
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Brian, I am going down right now and put the blocks under the bogies. I should have kept on doing that so she doesn't get so low. I really thought this last time she would be fixed so she wouldn't sag any more. No, I don't have the shut off valves at the Bags. As far as I know, everything on the airbag system is just as it was when it was made.
Bess Brenenstall
Elvaston, Illinois
1976 Birchaven
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Re: I Need Advice about Air Bag System Leaks [message #159780 is a reply to message #159766] |
Thu, 09 February 2012 18:08 |
bess
Messages: 46 Registered: September 2011 Location: Illinois
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Hi Dan, I am straight North of You near Keokuk Ia which is in the Southernmost Point of Iowa. I am just across the river in Illinois about 8 miles. I am Glad to know where you are. . . on the Trip I plan to take, I will be coming down your way and it's good to know there is someone on the first leg of my trip. I plan to spend the first night in Sikeston, Mo. - So if you get a call for help from this Old Couple !!! you will remember me, but hopefully everything is going to go Smoothly. I don't really know how both Shops could tell there wern't any leaks in the air bags - but both said there wasn't. I know in the Spring when it is warmer, it is on my list of things to get Fixed.
Bess Brenenstall
Elvaston, Illinois
1976 Birchaven
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Re: I Need Advice about Air Bag System Leaks [message #159783 is a reply to message #159781] |
Thu, 09 February 2012 18:28 |
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jaholland
Messages: 565 Registered: June 2010 Location: Sweet Home Alebamy
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BesB;
Call Jim B at gmccoop.com
Get And Install The Air Bag Cut Off Kit {$55.00}
Fill your air bags and set the cut off switch and
when you get to a GMC Rally Or To A Seasoned Owner
We will Help You Find Your Leak ~
~ Joe ~
{ There's always a lot of hot air at the rallys }
/_]*[__][] *[__|] ~ * '73 TZE063V101887 " "
O----------OO--]* ~ '78 TZE168V100234 " "
" Joe & Lavelle " " "
'sweet home alebamy'
[Updated on: Thu, 09 February 2012 18:30] Report message to a moderator
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Re: I Need Advice about Air Bag System Leaks [message #159806 is a reply to message #159724] |
Thu, 09 February 2012 20:48 |
Luvn737s
Messages: 1106 Registered: June 2007
Karma: 2
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For finding leaks, I'd use some glycerine or the stuff kids blow bubbles with (not gum!). It's mostly glycerine. The bubbles will show up better than just soapy water. You don't have to have much mechanical ability to dribble a little glycerine around where air lines connect. At least you could direct someone to the right general area, whether its a repair shop or a helpful GMCer. Plus you'd feel more confident knowing where the problem might be.
My GMC has a receiver hitch and I will place a jackstand under it to act as a "tail stand" of sorts in case it goes down too far.
The cut-offs are a great idea and can isolate a problem and give you peace of mind, which is what keeps owning a GMC fun.
Randy
1973 26' Painted Desert
Ahwatukee (Phoenix) AZ
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Re: I Need Advice about Air Bag System Leaks [message #159824 is a reply to message #159806] |
Thu, 09 February 2012 23:01 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030 Registered: January 2004 Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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If you have a 1976 GMC with the compressor inside in the rear then you have an ELECTRO-LEVEL I AIR SYSTEM. You do NOT have the power valves that leak that someone mentioned in previous posting. The power valves would be located in place of the toggle switches that you have on you dash near you right knee.
Please take Dan up on him offer to look at your coach. He is just west of Sikeston.
Go here for a good presentation on the air system:
http://gmcws.org/Tech/dsimmons/air_suspension/air-suspension-system.html
Print it out and take it to whomever you are using to fix your problems. Tell them to look at the Electro level I section.
The air system has basically tree isolated sections at rest with the power off. The air pressure for the left bag, the air pressure for the right bag, and the stored air pressure in the tank. These are not connected together when the power is off.
I would trouble shoot each at these three separately with the power off. If the bags themselves are not leaking, then almost all of the time the problems with the bag staying up are with the hose connections. The original connections were plastic and now leak 30 years later. Replacement brass connections are around $3.00 each. They are simple to replace and there are about 12 of them total. When I replaced all of mine years ago they were about $1.50 each and it took care of all of my air leakage problems.
Granted there are other things that can leak but the fittings are where I would start.
If it is taking 15 minutes to pump up the bags then your pump is tired. You can rebuild or replace the pump but I would not bother with that until I got the leaks fixed. With the leaks gone the pump will seldom need to run.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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Re: I Need Advice about Air Bag System Leaks [message #159951 is a reply to message #159824] |
Fri, 10 February 2012 21:29 |
bess
Messages: 46 Registered: September 2011 Location: Illinois
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Hi Ken, Thank You for the Link and I printed it out. The Compressor didn't work this hard before I got her "fixed". It use to come on a few minutes and you would have to really listen to tell it was running. Now, you can't miss the noise, and she runs forever. I Definitely would Welcome Dans Help or Any Help I can Get. It seems like things are getting Worse. I know that when they tried to fix the leaks - they unhooked the GMC's Compressor and connected their Compressor up to the Motorhome to try to find Leaks and said that they found 5 leaks in the fittings and they fixed them. I sure was hoping that this problem was fixed - but no such Luck. As soon as it gets warmer - I definitely want to get her so she doesn't "sink" when she is setting.
Bess Brenenstall
Elvaston, Illinois
1976 Birchaven
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Re: I Need Advice about Air Bag System Leaks [message #159956 is a reply to message #159951] |
Fri, 10 February 2012 21:51 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260 Registered: January 2004 Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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bess wrote on Fri, 10 February 2012 20:29 | Hi Ken, Thank You for the Link and I printed it out. The Compressor didn't work this hard before I got her "fixed". It use to come on a few minutes and you would have to really listen to tell it was running. Now, you can't miss the noise, and she runs forever. I Definitely would Welcome Dans Help or Any Help I can Get. It seems like things are getting Worse. I know that when they tried to fix the leaks - they unhooked the GMC's Compressor and connected their Compressor up to the Motorhome to try to find Leaks and said that they found 5 leaks in the fittings and they fixed them. I sure was hoping that this problem was fixed - but no such Luck. As soon as it gets warmer - I definitely want to get her so she doesn't "sink" when she is setting.
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Bess, it doesn't take much to make the coach sag because there isn't much volume of air involved. It's quite possible that the folks who repaired your system did actually find several leaks. I wanted to assure you that this is not a serious issue and many GMC'rs tackle this all the time. It shouldn't keep you from doing whatever you want to do with your coach and it's unlikely that you will hurt anything by using and enjoying it. You will meet a lot of folks who can start to pinpoint some specific areas.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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