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[GMCnet] Fuel filters [message #132941] Fri, 01 July 2011 01:49 Go to next message
Richard Brown is currently offline  Richard Brown
Messages: 279
Registered: May 2009
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Senior Member
I was talking to a friend today on the phone & he told me something that piqued my interest. He works as a mechanic on gasoline & diesel fleet vehicles and lately a lot of the companies are installing large fuel filter/water separators that use a spin-on filter that looks similar to an oil filter in size, but are designed to filter gas down to 2 microns and separate water from the fuel on vehicles using E-10 fuel. The ones they are installing are made by Wix, so the filters should be fairly easy to find & can hold almost a quart of water before needing to be replaced. I would assume it would need a fuel pump ahead of the filter to be useful. He's getting the info for the bases and filters and will get back to me at a later time. My question for the brain trust is would such a filter be useful for GMCs or would something like this be either overkill or simply not work in our application?He said that some of the filters are drainable to remove collected
water, but they have been simply replacing the filters at regular intervals. I can imagine a filter of that size could hold a considerable amount of trash before becoming restricted. I'm also wondering where the best place would be to install one. Anyone think this would be a good/bad idea & why.

Richard & Carol Brown

1974 Eleganza SE

"DILLIGAF"

Lindale, Tx. 75771

903-881-0192
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Richard & Carol Brown 1974 Eleganza SE 1174 Hickory Hills Dr. Murchison, TX. 75778
Re: [GMCnet] Fuel filters [message #132947 is a reply to message #132941] Fri, 01 July 2011 02:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   
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Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Richard,

I don't remember reading any emails discussing problems with water in the
gasoline supply system.

The problems we have discussed many times are with the damage that water
does in the fuel tanks.

I replaced all the fuel lines in Double Trouble with SAE30R7 lines three
years ago and installed a fuel filter with a metal housing in the rubber
hose that connects the fuel supply line to the fuel pump inlet. I have not
had any problems with fuel contamination in the carb from particulate matter
or water.

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426


-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces-AT-temp-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces-AT-temp-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org] On Behalf Of Richard Brown
Sent: Friday, 1 July 2011 4:49 PM
To: gmclist-AT-temp-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org
Subject: [GMCnet] Fuel filters

I was talking to a friend today on the phone & he told me something that
piqued my interest. He works as a mechanic on gasoline & diesel fleet
vehicles and lately a lot of the companies are installing large fuel
filter/water separators that use a spin-on filter that looks similar to an
oil filter in size, but are designed to filter gas down to 2 microns and
separate water from the fuel on vehicles using E-10 fuel. The ones they are
installing are made by Wix, so the filters should be fairly easy to find &
can hold almost a quart of water before needing to be replaced. I would
assume it would need a fuel pump ahead of the filter to be useful. He's
getting the info for the bases and filters and will get back to me at a
later time. My question for the brain trust is would such a filter be useful
for GMCs or would something like this be either overkill or simply not work
in our application?He said that some of the filters are drainable to remove
collected water, but they have been simply replacing the filters at regular
intervals. I can imagine a filter of that size could hold a considerable
amount of trash before becoming restricted. I'm also wondering where the
best place would be to install one. Anyone think this would be a good/bad
idea & why.

Richard & Carol Brown

1974 Eleganza SE

"DILLIGAF"

Lindale, Tx. 75771

903-881-0192
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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: [GMCnet] Fuel filters [message #132952 is a reply to message #132941] Fri, 01 July 2011 03:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   
Messages: 8442
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 32
Senior Member

If you have water in the gas, I'd be looking for the source.

Heet (alcohol) is used to remove water from the gas system.


Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Re: [GMCnet] Fuel filters [message #132954 is a reply to message #132941] Fri, 01 July 2011 06:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PettyVTX is currently offline  PettyVTX   
Messages: 362
Registered: April 2011
Location: Winder Ga.
Karma: 1
Senior Member
If your going to install an external spin on type fuel filter which i am doing. I would think you would need to install it after the electric fuel pump so the pump doesnt have to work as hard. Pushing is easier than pulling (so the SOB's say). I am also installing an external spin on trans filter on the return side to get an extra qt. of oil in the system. If you are woried about water in the fuel you can install a tractor type bowl filter. I dont know if they can take the pressure. I have one on my tractor but they have a tendancy to leak if you dont center them up properly and it is gravity feed but the good about it is you can see whats coming out of your tanks.Dont think i want one one my coach too much of a fire hazard.
Ted


Ex Avion now looking for a 23' Jeep Wrangler Towd
Re: [GMCnet] Fuel filters [message #132958 is a reply to message #132947] Fri, 01 July 2011 08:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jim Bounds is currently offline  Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
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Senior Member
The part I like about a canister styled filter with a sight bowl at the bottom
is that's where the silt ends up, man you would not believe how much gets
trapped there!  I cleaned it out before the trip to DeQuin last year and I have
a nice pile when I got home. 


Yes, I do not see any actual water in the bowl but hey, it could happen.  I am
risking clogging up the electric fuel pump in that it is before the filter.  I
have that happen on the previous machine I had (The Dumpster).  it had actually
3 tanks, all nasty inside.  My solution was to install the canister filter to
sift the nasty gas and clean out the tanks that way.  Heading to the Myrtle
Beach Intl rally years ago somewhere around Daytona the electric pump stopped. 
I stuffed myself under the coach on the side of I-95 at 2AM to find a smoking
electric fuel pump!  Yikes--  Bad Juju!  I pulled the power from it and jumped
across the ditch to wait.  Nothing happened so I figured I had dodged a bullet
and promised to never try and clean out a tank like that again.  Proof positiveI
will try bout anything that sounds promising!  BTW, don't try that at home.

Contamination from rusted tanks, the ethanol in our fuel supply, vapor lock--
all this stuff is on the rise, I see it every day-- have 2 coaches in here right
now that had nasty tanks.  We are working to try and answer these issues, you
just can't drive around with a 5 gallon tank in the pass. floorboard all the
time, a 6 pack of carb filters in the glove box and don;t think you are immune
with fuel injection. 


Found a solution to the problem of direct port injection vapor lock.  Butch D.
up in Mpls. found that the fuel at the injectors was boiling causing the
injectors themselves to misfire.  He put a bilge blower fan piped up to the top
of the motor to blow air onto the rails and injectors solved the problem.  Man,
having to fix a $4000 direct port exotic fuel injection system with a fan to
cool it down is stupid!  In fact I am going to try that on my Q-jet carb., might
help and thats also so sad that we have diluted our fuel supply to the point of
madness.  We are lining and stocking fuel tanks now.

Jim Bounds
---------------------------



----- Original Message ----
From: Rob Mueller <robmueller-AT-iinet-DOT-net-DOT-au>
To: gmclist-AT-temp-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org
Sent: Fri, July 1, 2011 3:30:18 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Fuel filters

Richard,

I don't remember reading any emails discussing problems with water in the
gasoline supply system.

The problems we have discussed many times are with the damage that water
does in the fuel tanks.

I replaced all the fuel lines in Double Trouble with SAE30R7 lines three
years ago and installed a fuel filter with a metal housing in the rubber
hose that connects the fuel supply line to the fuel pump inlet. I have not
had any problems with fuel contamination in the carb from particulate matter
or water.

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426


-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces-AT-temp-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces-AT-temp-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org] On Behalf Of Richard Brown
Sent: Friday, 1 July 2011 4:49 PM
To: gmclist-AT-temp-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org
Subject: [GMCnet] Fuel filters

I was talking to a friend today on the phone & he told me something that
piqued my interest. He works as a mechanic on gasoline & diesel fleet
vehicles and lately a lot of the companies are installing large fuel
filter/water separators that use a spin-on filter that looks similar to an
oil filter in size, but are designed to filter gas down to 2 microns and
separate water from the fuel on vehicles using E-10 fuel. The ones they are
installing are made by Wix, so the filters should be fairly easy to find &
can hold almost a quart of water before needing to be replaced. I would
assume it would need a fuel pump ahead of the filter to be useful. He's
getting the info for the bases and filters and will get back to me at a
later time. My question for the brain trust is would such a filter be useful
for GMCs or would something like this be either overkill or simply not work
in our application?He said that some of the filters are drainable to remove
collected water, but they have been simply replacing the filters at regular
intervals. I can imagine a filter of that size could hold a considerable
amount of trash before becoming restricted. I'm also wondering where the
best place would be to install one. Anyone think this would be a good/bad
idea & why.

Richard & Carol Brown

1974 Eleganza SE

"DILLIGAF"

Lindale, Tx. 75771

903-881-0192
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Re: [GMCnet] Fuel filters [message #132959 is a reply to message #132954] Fri, 01 July 2011 08:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
shawnee is currently offline  shawnee   
Messages: 422
Registered: February 2004
Location: NC
Karma: 0
Senior Member
PettyVTX wrote on Fri, 01 July 2011 07:35

If your going to install an external spin on type fuel filter which i am doing. I would think you would need to install it after the electric fuel pump so the pump doesnt have to work as hard. Pushing is easier than pulling (so the SOB's say). I am also installing an external spin on trans filter on the return side to get an extra qt. of oil in the system. If you are woried about water in the fuel you can install a tractor type bowl filter. I dont know if they can take the pressure. I have one on my tractor but they have a tendancy to leak if you dont center them up properly and it is gravity feed but the good about it is you can see whats coming out of your tanks.Dont think i want one one my coach too much of a fire hazard.
Ted


Carter P4070 electric fuel requires a filter before the fuel pump. I have used one for over 15 years and have only lost one. That was one that wouldn't withstand ethanol. I now have two pumps, one for each tank and a filter on each on the intake side and still have the carburetor filter installed. Works with no problem.


Gene Dotson
74 Canyonlands
www.bdub.net/Motorhome_Enhancements New Windows and Aluminum Radiators
Re: [GMCnet] Fuel filters [message #132961 is a reply to message #132958] Fri, 01 July 2011 08:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jim Galbavy is currently offline  Jim Galbavy   
Messages: 1378
Registered: August 2007
Karma: 5
Senior Member
I have been running my GMC with a spin on fuel filter / water separator that has a sight glass and drain for over six years. They are an improvement over the carb. filter. Holds more contaminates and filters finer than the carb. filter. Mine is a marine unit made by PARKER HANIFIN. Safer and ez'er than constantly wrenching with the carb. filter. JWID

jim galbavy
'73 x-CL // ANNIE
Lake Mary, Fl
Re: [GMCnet] Fuel filters [message #132964 is a reply to message #132961] Fri, 01 July 2011 09:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
comcast is currently offline  comcast
Messages: 604
Registered: August 2009
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Senior Member
I have seen quite a few inline, glass bowl, fuel filters at Tractors
Supply. Mainly for tractors, I suppose, but surely one could use them
on a GMC.

Roger Black
77 Birchaven
Burns, Tn




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Re: [GMCnet] Fuel filters [message #132976 is a reply to message #132941] Fri, 01 July 2011 10:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dennis S is currently offline  Dennis S   
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Registered: November 2005
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Richard Brown wrote on Fri, 01 July 2011 01:49

I was talking to a friend today on the phone & he told me something that piqued my interest. He works as a mechanic on gasoline & diesel fleet vehicles and lately a lot of the companies are installing large fuel filter/water separators that use a spin-on filter that looks similar to an oil filter in size, but are designed to filter gas down to 2 microns and separate water from the fuel on vehicles using E-10 fuel. The ones they are installing are made by Wix, so the filters should be fairly easy to find & can hold almost a quart of water before needing to be replaced. I would assume it would need a fuel pump ahead of the filter to be useful. He's getting the info for the bases and filters and will get back to me at a later time. My question for the brain trust is would such a filter be useful for GMCs or would something like this be either overkill or simply not work in our application?He said that some of the filters are drainable to remove collected
water, but they have been simply replacing the filters at regular intervals. I can imagine a filter of that size could hold a considerable amount of trash before becoming restricted. I'm also wondering where the best place would be to install one. Anyone think this would be a good/bad idea & why.

Richard & Carol Brown

1974 Eleganza SE




Richard,

Several GMC's have spin on fuel filters..use the search function on the photo site and put in fuel filter..

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=25708&title=outside-frame-large-fuel-filter-&cat=4969

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=25789&title=parker-hannifin-racor-025-rac-0228-01-29-fuel-filter&cat=500

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=18726&cat=3841

Dennis


Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
Re: [GMCnet] Fuel filters [message #132985 is a reply to message #132976] Fri, 01 July 2011 12:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
emerystora is currently offline  emerystora   
Messages: 4220
Registered: January 2004
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>
>
> Richard Brown wrote on Fri, 01 July 2011 01:49
>> I was talking to a friend today on the phone & he told me something that piqued my interest. He works as a mechanic on gasoline & diesel fleet vehicles and lately a lot of the companies are installing large fuel filter/water separators that use a spin-on filter that looks similar to an oil filter in size, but are designed to filter gas down to 2 microns and separate water from the fuel on vehicles using E-10 fuel. The ones they are installing are made by Wix, so the filters should be fairly easy to find & can hold almost a quart of water before needing to be replaced. I would assume it would need a fuel pump ahead of the filter to be useful. He's getting the info for the bases and filters and will get back to me at a later time. My question for the brain trust is would such a filter be useful for GMCs or would something like this be either overkill or simply not work in our application?He said that some of the filters are drainable to remove collected
>> water, but they have been simply replacing the filters at regular intervals. I can imagine a filter of that size could hold a considerable amount of trash before becoming restricted. I'm also wondering where the best place would be to install one. Anyone think this would be a good/bad idea & why.
>>
>> Richard & Carol Brown
>>
>> 1974 Eleganza SE
>


There really isn't much need for a filter that takes out water. Years ago people used to add Drigas (usually isopropanol) but nowadays with 10% or more ethanol in the gasoline there is no need for Drigas as the ethanol will absorb water that might get into gasoline tanks.

The main source for water used to be the condensation in the service station fuel tanks and perhaps a little bit from condensation in the vehicle fuel tanks.

I am surprised about the reference to water in E-10 fuels. With 10% ethanol that fuel should be able to absorb about 3 tablespoons or more water per gallon. So, a 50 gallon tank could absorb about 2-1/2 quarts of water and pass it through to the engine without it wetting out the spark plugs.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM


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Re: [GMCnet] Fuel filters [message #132989 is a reply to message #132959] Fri, 01 July 2011 13:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PettyVTX is currently offline  PettyVTX   
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Registered: April 2011
Location: Winder Ga.
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Curious. All of my vehicles that have electric fuel pumps in the tanks have a sock filter in the tank and a inline filer next to the fuel rails or regulator i guess its because its a in tank pump. what do you think? Yours is the setup i want on my BEAST
Ted
shawnee wrote on Fri, 01 July 2011 08:14

PettyVTX wrote on Fri, 01 July 2011 07:35

If your going to install an external spin on type fuel filter which i am doing. I would think you would need to install it after the electric fuel pump so the pump doesnt have to work as hard. Pushing is easier than pulling (so the SOB's say). I am also installing an external spin on trans filter on the return side to get an extra qt. of oil in the system. If you are woried about water in the fuel you can install a tractor type bowl filter. I dont know if they can take the pressure. I have one on my tractor but they have a tendancy to leak if you dont center them up properly and it is gravity feed but the good about it is you can see whats coming out of your tanks.Dont think i want one one my coach too much of a fire hazard.
Ted


Carter P4070 electric fuel requires a filter before the fuel pump. I have used one for over 15 years and have only lost one. That was one that wouldn't withstand ethanol. I now have two pumps, one for each tank and a filter on each on the intake side and still have the carburetor filter installed. Works with no problem.



Ex Avion now looking for a 23' Jeep Wrangler Towd

[Updated on: Fri, 01 July 2011 13:09]

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Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Filters [message #328040 is a reply to message #132941] Mon, 08 January 2018 14:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
Messages: 4616
Registered: May 2010
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Senior Member
I kinda do what Matt does with the following exceptions. I ALWAYS fill my
tanks in the cool morning, and I fill until I hear gasoline gurgling back
in the filler neck. I always use major brand (Chevron) gasoline from busy
fuel stops. When under way, I run on the main tank exclusively. The late
coaches use from both tanks down to the point where the filler spigot no
longer allows fuel transfer between level tanks. In my case that will be
225 to 250 miles. That will equal 4 hours of seat time, which in my
opinion, requires one to get out and take a break from driving. I usually
do this at a fuel stop unless I have reached my destination. I add fuel
enough to reach my destination with sufficient fuel available to run the
generator if I am dry camping, although the Royale coaches that were
upfitted by Coachman do not use the extra fitting in the main tank with the
siphon tube that ends at 3/4 of the tank depth. That allows for morning
fill ups as part of my morning maintenence checks. Just what I do, drive on
the top half of the tanks.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

On Jan 8, 2018 12:05 PM, "Matt Colie" wrote:

From a lifelong history of managing fuel inventory, we use a standard
method that has served us very well (now that everything works).
* Run on the main tank until it indicates half.
* Change to the Auxiliary (that will start at about half) and run it until
the low fuel light comes on.
* Change back to the main and run it until the next planned fuel stop.

Part of this idea is to try to keep above the 1/4 on the main so there is
fuel for the APU (genset) in case it is needed.
Another part of this thinking is that as the main fills first when fueling,
we can count on getting new fuel in both tanks.

How many of you have been riding a motorcycle and reached down to change to
the reserve only to find out that you left the fuel cock in the reserve
position after you last filled the tank?? (I am not going to ask for a
show of hands....)

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

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Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Filters [message #328046 is a reply to message #328040] Mon, 08 January 2018 16:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Henderson is currently offline  Ken Henderson   United States
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Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 41
Senior Member
Jim K. has a point in suggesting frequent use of Aux fuel. I always use
the Main, unless it starves the engine, then I switch to Aux and go to the
next service station. However, as my tanks are plumbed, there's always
flow through the Aux unless I'm using from it: The return from my EFI
accumulator tank feeds into the bottom drain on the Aux tank, keeping it
full and overflowing to the Main.

Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, Troy-Bilt APU, etc., etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Filters [message #328050 is a reply to message #328040] Mon, 08 January 2018 18:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
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I quite frequently (not always) run on the aux tank feed just to exercise the selector valve. When I see the level dropping on the aux and not on the main I assume that I have run that tank and the main below the 7 gallon point and I know the valve and fuel system is working as designed.

When I rad people never run below 1/2 tank I question why fill it up and carry all of that extra fuel around? If you are only going to run to the 1/2 point then only fill them 1/2 (plus a little) in the first place. I fill them and run until the low fuel light comes on unless I find a cheap or non-ethanol station before then. I have no idea how far the coach will go after the light turns on because I have never run it to the point of running out of fuel.



Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Filters [message #328055 is a reply to message #328050] Mon, 08 January 2018 18:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
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Last time I checked, I cannot push or pull a GMC Motor home by hand.
In hot weather, I do occasionally experience vapor lock. I have an
auxiliary fuel pump connected to the auxiliary fuel tank valve so that when
I change the position of the switch from main to auxiliary, the fuel pump
will run. I NEVER, EVER, run any vehicle I own below 1/4 of a tank, and
gages on a GMC are notoriously inaccurate. You are free to do anything you
wish in this regard. I wish you well.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

On Jan 8, 2018 4:20 PM, "Ken Burton" wrote:

> I quite frequently (not always) run on the aux tank feed just to exercise
> the selector valve. When I see the level dropping on the aux and not on the
> main I assume that I have run that tank and the main below the 7 gallon
> point and I know the valve and fuel system is working as designed.
>
> When I rad people never run below 1/2 tank I question why fill it up and
> carry all of that extra fuel around? If you are only going to run to the
> 1/2
> point then only fill them 1/2 (plus a little) in the first place. I fill
> them and run until the low fuel light comes on unless I find a cheap or
> non-ethanol station before then. I have no idea how far the coach will go
> after the light turns on because I have never run it to the point of
> running out of fuel.
>
>
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
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Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Filters [message #328058 is a reply to message #328055] Mon, 08 January 2018 19:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
Messages: 8442
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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I also have never tried to push a GMC. I did have to tow mine home once with my Blazer after it quit a mile and a half down the road. I had changed the selector valve and the new one had a crack in it. That is when I learned about needing vacuum to stop. It taught me why I needed an electric vacuum boost pump.

I do remember Arch once pushing his GMC with his towed vehicle. It was only a short distance.


Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Re: [GMCnet] Fuel Filters [message #328059 is a reply to message #328058] Mon, 08 January 2018 19:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimk is currently offline  jimk   United States
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Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
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Senior Member
Also keep in mind that the tank selector switch has a rubber O ring, it is
being eaten by the ethanol if it has not been changed in the last 4-5 years.
As i metioned before, the percent of ethanal is never at 10% and it is a
real killer when it goes higher in concentration.
When the Wix ( now a Mann) rep comes over to see me, I will be questioning
him about what he has seen out in the field.

On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 5:00 PM, Ken Burton wrote:

> I also have never tried to push a GMC. I did have to tow mine home once
> with my Blazer after it quit a mile and a half down the road. I had changed
> the selector valve and the new one had a crack in it. That is when I
> learned about needing vacuum to stop. It taught me why I needed an electric
> vacuum boost pump.
>
> I do remember Arch once pushing his GMC with his towed vehicle. It was
> only a short distance.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk-AT-appliedairfilters-DOT-com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk-AT-appliedairfilters-DOT-com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
Re: [GMCnet] Fuel filters [message #328075 is a reply to message #132941] Tue, 09 January 2018 00:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rick Staples is currently offline  Rick Staples   United States
Messages: 19
Registered: May 2014
Location: Johnstown, Colorado, USA
Karma: -1
Junior Member
I've followed this discussion with some interest, esp those who report finding rust/dirt in their systems, and also the comments about water and alcohol. Thought I'd throw in my .02.
A. Water in the fuel is rare, but once you've got it, it's nasty. We got a tankful of bad gas once, on our first cross-country trip ~20 yrs ago. Filled up at a small-town gas station in Pa, and the dance was on. Drygas, filter change, helped a little, but it was several thousand miles before the hiccups faded away. Moral: Buy gas from a large, busy, station when possible.

B. In my former life as a mechanic/service manager in Massachusetts 25 yrs ago, I often dealt with waster/ice in fuel systems, so I did some research about it. Seems alcohol-laced gas is even MORE susceptible to water than plain gas. As I understand it, alcohol has a MUCH greater affinity for water than it does for gasoline. In fact, oil companies add things to get the alcohol and gas to stay mixed. If you get much more than a few ounces of water in your tank, the alcohol will part company from the gasoline, join up with the water, and sit at the bottom of the tank. You CAN run a car on pure alcohol (They do it in Brazil.), but it won't vaporize in cold weather, and it takes TWICE as much fuel per volume of air, so it won't burn in a normal vehicle.

C. Many places I've worked changed fuel filters at every major (annual, biannual) service, even though NOT recommended by the manufacturer. This was done to insure that no money was left untapped in the customer's wallet, IMHO. I recall the Nissan manual that simply said "If the fuel filter becomes clogged, change it." I have seldom if ever found a clogged fuel filter, unless the the tank was rusted badly, or run without a gas cap. The one time I thought I had a clogged fuel filter, it turned out to be a rusted-out fuel line sucking air.

D. About 15 years ago, I dropped the tanks of "The Dancing Bear", and replaced most of the hoses and O'rings. Last year (2016), fuel was spilling over when filled full, so I dropped them AGAIN, replaced ALL the hose with SAE70R9 and/or steel, and pulled both pickups to replace O'rings. I found (to my surprise) totally clean tanks and totally clean fuel socks. I found one pickup sat rather high off the bottom of the tank, so I bent it down a little. Finding NO debris in the glass bowl filter of my electric pump's prefilter, I removed it as an unnecessary flow restriction. It's amazing how many different sizes of hose are needed for all the fuel lines, vent lines, fill vent lines, fill pipes, generator fuel line, ad nauseum. This job took longer than last time, now that I'm on the wrong side 70, so I hope it's the last time. Afterwards, the tanks even built up a little pressure as they should. Vapor lock is greatly reduced (but not totally eliminated).

HTH


Rick Staples, '75 Eleganza, Johnstown, CO "Advice is a dangerous gift, even from the Wise to the Wise, and all paths may run ill." -Tolkien
Re: [GMCnet] Fuel filters [message #328077 is a reply to message #328075] Tue, 09 January 2018 07:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
Messages: 8442
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 32
Senior Member

Water in fuel is common in these coaches because people park them for extended periods of time (primarily in winter) without the tanks being full. When they are warm, humid air enters the empty space in the tanks. Then as the temperature changes to cold, the humid air inside the tanks condenses moisture on the inside and eventually settles as a liquid on the bottom. If there is ethanol diluted fuel in the tank, then the ethanol will combine with the water on the bottom to make the total amount accumulated there even more.

We use water as a standard check for ethanol on our gasoline at the airport. We put 1 CC of water in an measuring tube and add 5 cc of the suspect gasoline. If it is E-10 the test tube will read 1.5 cc on the bottom of combined water and ethanol and 4.5 cc of gasoline above it. I use a medicine bottle graduated in ounces but the result is the same. In EPA non-attainment areas, the EPA is very strict and the test always comes out at exactly 10%. The EPA allows a 1% variation (9% to 11%). Anything over or under that and the delivery truck driver is subject to a huge fine. In other attainment areas the amount will vary any from 0 to 10 %. I have never seen a reading above 10% except on these ethanol pumps with E-85. With E-15 on the horizon that might change.

Enough of that, this subject is suppose to be about filters and water in tanks.


Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Re: [GMCnet] Fuel filters [message #328082 is a reply to message #328077] Tue, 09 January 2018 11:00 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
jimk is currently offline  jimk   United States
Messages: 4573
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 5
Senior Member
Richard,
Your comments are well expressed, however, one need to know that this is a
45 year old object that has been exposed to sitting around and OLD fuel
does crutalize to som extent and the gum that also develops.
Gas stations have similer problems.
My experince along with many other owners have this residude issue.
If your addressing only the particulet issue, your going to be in for Pearl
Harbor attack.
ALso using the Aux tank and utilizing it is a wise idea.
Oh, Newer cars do not need to address it as they are not 45 years old and
driven frequently.

On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 5:49 AM, Ken Burton wrote:

> Water in fuel is common in these coaches because people park them for
> extended periods of time (primarily in winter) without the tanks being full.
> When they are warm, humid air enters the empty space in the tanks. Then
> as the temperature changes to cold, the humid air inside the tanks condenses
> moisture on the inside and eventually settles as a liquid on the bottom.
> If there is ethanol diluted fuel in the tank, then the ethanol will combine
> with the water on the bottom to make the total amount accumulated there
> even more.
>
> We use water as a standard check for ethanol on our gasoline at the
> airport. We put 1 CC of water in an measuring tube and add 5 cc of the
> suspect
> gasoline. If it is E-10 the test tube will read 1.5 cc on the bottom of
> combined water and ethanol and 4.5 cc of gasoline above it. I use a
> medicine
> bottle graduated in ounces but the result is the same. In EPA
> non-attainment areas, the EPA is very strict and the test always comes out
> at exactly
> 10%. The EPA allows a 1% variation (9% to 11%). Anything over or under
> that and the delivery truck driver is subject to a huge fine. In other
> attainment areas the amount will vary any from 0 to 10 %. I have never
> seen a reading above 10% except on these ethanol pumps with E-85. With E-15
> on the horizon that might change.
>
> Enough of that, this subject is suppose to be about filters and water in
> tanks.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>



--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk-AT-appliedairfilters-DOT-com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk-AT-appliedairfilters-DOT-com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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