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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC involed in accident [message #93737 is a reply to message #93713 ] |
Wed, 28 July 2010 23:10   |
 bishop1
Messages: 43
Registered: June 2010
Location: Alabama |
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Looks like his right rear brakes locked up `
Joe & Lavelle of ALEBAMY
Previously owned a '65 6cyl Cortez, '68 8cyl Cortez, 1973 GMC 26' Canyonlands & Now a'78 Eleganza II 26' {"The Ole Gospel Ship"}
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC involed in accident [message #93742 is a reply to message #93739 ] |
Wed, 28 July 2010 23:56 |
980
Messages: 58
Registered: July 2010 |
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I will get flamed also, but there's no shoulder there and when he tried
to pass on the left they should have stayed where they were. Some of
the other press was really biased, with phrases like "Mowed down by the
RV", "Plowed into the pack of cyclists" etc. One of the stories said
that the bikes were attempting a left turn, but I couldn't see any
intersection nearby.
I used to live out on the backroads of Marin County in Northern
California. There's this sense of entitlement that some cyclists get
into and it's been killing them for a long time.
Something went wrong in Quebec, like the bike pack panicked and turned
left instead of letting him pass. Or, they could see that there was no
oncoming traffic and were 'enjoying' the whole road. I've certainly
seen it before. There's no way to tell without being there, but that's
no reason to go on TV and claim that everyone you know is perfect.
I almost took out a Lexus last weekend in downtown SF. That guy was
taking a big chance in front of me trying to shoot out of a parking
garage and across four lanes of traffic for a left turn. Unfortunately,
he panicked at the last second and locked his brakes. It wouldn't have
been a real hard hit, but I still would have had to get out a rag and
bottle of "Ass-hat remover." These people think that an aggressive move
will buy them the right-of-way. With only little cars involved the odds
aren't that bad, but when you get a motorhome in the equation it doesn't
matter. If you pull your move late enough only physics are in control.
I'd hate to see Mr. Etienne treated unfairly. There were enough random
elements in that scene that there's no way it was anything but an
accident. He could never have done the same thing even if he was trying.
DC
--
1977 GMC ex-Palm Beach, 26-3
Treasure Island, CA
KC6VHG, KAG0675 "980"
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| Re: GMC involed in accident [message #93747 is a reply to message #93739 ] |
Thu, 29 July 2010 00:32 |
Larry C
Messages: 949
Registered: July 2004
Location: NE Illinois by the Illino... |
Senior Member |
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bicyclists don't belong on the freeway.
____________________________________________________
LET EM FLAME, I have ASBESTOUS underwear
They don't belong on the road, only the courts think so.
They ride the side of a road where there is not room for a car and a bike, they can't do 40 mph yet we have to bow to them. If we try to pass, we have to go into the on coming lane.
They pull up to the red light in the road, not the side of the road, complicate traffic and get in the way.
I have no problem where there are bike lanes, there is room for the bike and cars. But keep em off the road where there is no bike lane, PERIOD.... And they know they are considered pedestrians and ride two, three abreast. No way a car can get by and traffic gets blocked.
I ride a bike, and I know the cars are having proximity problems, but, I am a pedestrian, I, have the right-a-way, thank you state of Illinois......
Flaming won't change anything, It will remain a bad problem that won't be delt with....
LarC ( Bike lanes and trails are for riding bikes, highways are for cars, but spray on one of those tight lycra suits and a funny looking hat, and the road is yours..... )
Gatsbys' CRUISER 
74 GLACIER X, 260
455/APC/4 bagg'r(ver3)
Remflex Manifold gaskets
_______________________________________________
Purchased 08-18-04
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| Re: GMC involed in accident [message #93758 is a reply to message #93709 ] |
Thu, 29 July 2010 06:42 |
Rusty
Messages: 451
Registered: October 2005
Location: Philadelphia Pa |
Senior Member |
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Whenever I drive my coach, which is less than I wish since I still have my day job, I have to really concentrate on the fact that its 8 feet wide and I have to hug the center line consistantly. Passing bikers, walkers, disabled or parked vehicles is an exercise in accute attention. Same goes for leaving space in front of the vehicle you're following.
I also believe sport cyclists have an entitlement issue. Even in my car, if I have to pass a group of them, I simply cannot if there is oncoming traffic so I have to wait. They seem to assume I should have to wait also, and have no qualms about placing themselves inside the active lane.
Most roads do not have bicycle lanes, and its not like there are less cars, or less cyclists, appearing these days on the available transit real estate. So this problem will get worse.
It all boils down to common sense. Why place yourself in a dangerous situation in the first place?
Rusty
75 Glenbrook
Philadelphia Pa
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| Re: GMC involed in accident [message #93763 is a reply to message #93758 ] |
Thu, 29 July 2010 07:30 |
Keith V
Messages: 822
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN |
Senior Member |
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I'm all for bike riding, do a fair amount myself, but people are just plain stupid.
There's a road by me, Minnetonka Blvd, 4 lanes zero shoulder with a curb right at the right hand stripe. There are large trucks and heavy traffic doing 50-60 on that road.
There is also a NICE pathway right next to it.
Still, bicyclers insist on riding two ( or more) abreast down the road, why?
Someone please explain to me why it is worth riding there?
Like mentioned above the GMC was completely over the center line on a curve. How much road were the bicyclers using? From my experience they were probably using the whole lane. Hard not to hit on an inside corner.
SHARE the road doesn't mean the bicycle gets the whole thing...
Keith
69 Vette
29 Dodge
75 Royale GMC
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| Re: GMC involed in accident [message #93765 is a reply to message #93709 ] |
Thu, 29 July 2010 07:39 |
fred v
Messages: 1052
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl. |
Senior Member |
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some facts that i observed:
1. it was not a Freeway, it was a 2 lane hwy.
2. the GMC was coming around a left hand curve in the road.
3. from the long skid mark he may have been going quite fast
i also agree with the thoughts about cyclists and have encountered them riding 3 or 4 abreast and blocking the road. not a good idea.
i really feel for the driver. i have a friend who was an engineer for Amtrak and killed a guy trying to beat the train at a crossing. it will stay with you forever.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: GMC involed in accident [message #93769 is a reply to message #93765 ] |
Thu, 29 July 2010 07:51 |
Keith V
Messages: 822
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN |
Senior Member |
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| fred v wrote on Thu, 29 July 2010 07:39 |
some facts that i observed:
3. from the long skid mark he may have been going quite fast
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Not if he has the stock braking system and not a reaction arm system...
On that corner, and then turning sharp to avoid the crowd, I bet the outside rear wheel was WAY off the ground!
I think it just shows where he started braking
Keith
69 Vette
29 Dodge
75 Royale GMC
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC involed in accident [message #93773 is a reply to message #93746 ] |
Thu, 29 July 2010 08:07 |
mlincoln
Messages: 138
Registered: August 2006
Location: Salt Lake City |
Senior Member |
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Europe is very interesting. My wife and I (before kids) lived in a few major cities for summer research projects--Helsinki, Stockholm, Copenhagen, Oslo--that all had bicycle roads. For example in Copenhagen each major auto roadway, at least in the city itself, had three regions. These regions included, separated by a curb, one or more auto travel lanes, a bicycle lane, and a pedestrian lane (sidewalk). Thus bicycle traffic was effectively segregated from the walkers and the autos. Bicyclists had traffic signals and signs to obey, and were could be stopped and either warned or ticketed for violations. Drivers violating a rule, or even walkers in the bicycle lane, could also be warned or cited.
This seemed much safer to me than the teensy bicycle lanes and the inevitable mixing of pedestrians, bicycles, and autos we have in North America.
Mike
1978 Coachman Royale Center Kitchen
On Jul 29, 2010, at 1:30 AM, Ken Burton wrote:
>
>
> This is why I rarely take my motorcycles on 4 lane highways and never go on Interstates.
>
> Yesterday going to Oshkosh there were many motorcyclists weaving between lanes cutting off cars trying to get ahead on the interstates around Milwaukee. Sometimes it is the bicyclist's fault and sometimes it is the other vehicle. The bicyclist or motorcyclist always looses no matter whose fault it is.
>
> "Watch out for women driving minivans talking on cell phones in the middle of the day."
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: GMC involed in accident [message #93796 is a reply to message #93789 ] |
Thu, 29 July 2010 10:31 |
Keith V
Messages: 822
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN |
Senior Member |
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| philipswanson wrote on Thu, 29 July 2010 09:45 |
Definitly not a freeway. Bikes aren't allowed on freeways already. So that point is moot.
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The poster was talking about a motorcycle on the freeway...
| Quote: |
The skid marks indicate that this GMC driver was way over on the right side, way too far. Some RV drivers drive a coach like a car and end up way over to the right side.
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The skid marks start on the LEFT side of the double white line, in the opposing lane, not on the right side of the road. the coach is shown stopped up against the oncomming lanes guardrail.
So there is no evidence that they were way over to the right side.
| Quote: |
For me, it looks like it was the GMC drivers fault and I don't ride a bike. A thorough investigation needs to be done but I am betting on the bikers.
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Of course, the bicycler is never at fault.
Keith
69 Vette
29 Dodge
75 Royale GMC
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| Re: GMC involed in accident [message #93798 is a reply to message #93758 ] |
Thu, 29 July 2010 10:35 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 1386
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ |
Senior Member |
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""I also believe sport cyclists have an entitlement issue. Even in my car, if I have to pass a group of them, I simply cannot if there is oncoming traffic so I have to wait. They seem to assume I should have to wait also, and have no qualms about placing themselves inside the active lane.
""
I tend to agree. Here in the Phoenix suburbs we have a lot of bicycle riders and a lot of bicycle lanes. For some reason they like to ride right on the white line even though there's plenty of room within the lane. Most have rear view mirrors and I can see their eyes so I know they see me coming, but do you think they will move over??? No they won't.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC involed in accident [message #93799 is a reply to message #93747 ] |
Thu, 29 July 2010 10:34 |
Richard Denney
Messages: 47
Registered: April 2010 |
Member |
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On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 1:32 AM, Larry <slawrence111@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I have no problem where there are bike lanes, there is room for the bike
> and cars. But keep em off the road where there is no bike lane, PERIOD....
> And they know they are considered pedestrians and ride two, three abreast.
> No way a car can get by and traffic gets blocked.
>
>
Please stop this. I have had too many friends killed this way, and have had
too many close calls myself from drivers willing to risk my life to make
their point.
If you want your program to work the way you suggest it, get out there and
lobby for the taxes needed to convert existing roadways to have bike lanes
or paved shoulders.
The country roads around here have no shoulders (not even unpaved
shoulders), let alone bike lanes. And most of the roads in this county
(Loudoun County, VA, with the highest median income in the country, see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highest-income_counties_in_the_United_States)
are unpaved. That forces cyclists onto a small number of paved roads, none
of which are designed for them. There is a bike trail through the area, but
I've had more close calls with roller bladers and poorly controlled dogs
being walked than with cars on the roads.
Your statement is tantamount, in many places, to the majority forcing the
minority to conform to their wishes, and those wishes are often based on no
more than convenience. Even on the most popular cycling roads around here, I
am delayed while driving perhaps once in 20 trips, and then for never more
than a fraction of a minute. How much of a hurry are we in? If we only want
to pay for too few narrow, windy, shoulderless roads then the people on
those roads have to be prepared to share them. Remember that a cyclist
cannot ride in the ditch, and it is against the law to ride a bicycle on the
sidewalk in most states (even if there is a sidewalk, which there is not on
most country roads). Last I reviewed the law, driving was a privilege, while
pedestrians and non-motorized vehicles are a right (in that no license is
required). Thus, the burden is on the driver to be responsive to other
users, even if they are going very slow.
And speaking of going slow, most of the cyclists around here pass the
tractors, yet I don't see the same complaining when the weekend farmers
around here are driving their shiny tractors at 15 mph up and down the road
hauling hay to their horses--their other weekend hobby. And driving a GMC or
other RV is nearly always a hobby, too, come to think of it.
The width of the GMC is an issue. There is no way for an 8-foot vehicle to
pass a cyclist safely on a 10-foot lane, but cyclists riding in single file
might still tempt them to try. Riding abreast is sometimes a survival
strategy for cyclists--it makes them easier to see and forces the vehicle
driver to wait for an appropriate opportunity to pass. But that will always
be seen as obnoxious by drivers.
That in no way excuses the stupidity of some cyclists, and I've certainly
seen plenty. But, as Ken said, no matter who was stupid, it's still the
cyclist who loses. Of my friends who have been killed, they wee at fault
about 20% of the time. But they are still the dead ones. Often enough,
someone did indeed plow right into a group while being inattentive for one
reason or another.
Rick "seeing only tragedy in this story" Denney
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC involed in accident [message #93800 is a reply to message #93789 ] |
Thu, 29 July 2010 10:38 |
Ken Coit
Messages: 325
Registered: November 2005 |
Senior Member |
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The RV was on the left side of the center line and still didn't avoid
hitting the bicyclists. Maybe they were taking a short cut across the
corner? What would you do if you came around a bend at the speed limit and
four lanes were blocked by bicycles? I'd aim for the least number of them
and brake hard. Guard rails would look good.
Oh, there does seem to an intersection at the scene, so maybe they were
turning into the RV's path and naturally spread across the whole road.
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Phil Swanson <woodyman1@sbcglobal.net>wrote:
>
>
> Definitly not a freeway. Bikes aren't allowed on freeways already. So
> that point is moot.
>
> The skid marks indicate that this GMC driver was way over on the right
> side, way too far. Some RV drivers drive a coach like a car and end up way
> over to the right side.
>
> For me, it looks like it was the GMC drivers fault and I don't ride a bike.
> A thorough investigation needs to be done but I am betting on the bikers.
>
> Phil Swanson
> 77GMCPB
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--
Ken Coit, ND7N
Raleigh, NC
Parfait Royale
1978 Royale Rear Bath, 403, 3.07
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| Re: GMC involed in accident [message #93802 is a reply to message #93709 ] |
Thu, 29 July 2010 10:51 |
Mike O'Connell
Messages: 64
Registered: November 2008
Location: Deerfield MA |
Member |
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I have been told by cycling enthusiasts that in Massachusetts they have passed a law that bicyclists have the same rights to the road as cars and are to be treated like farm equipment are... that you have to slow down behind them and pass when safe. Unfortunately this seems to be taken by some member of the cycling community to mean that bikes have no obligation to move to the right as far as possible to allow cars to pass.
Apparently, since four abreast cyclists have the same lane footprint as a Massey Fergusen combine harvester, they now have the right to be in that formation on the road and the car drivers waiting behind them can just pound sand.
This righteous attitude is such a shame because I support any and all things that save gas and promote health like biking but these folks have a tremendous chip on their shoulders in thinking them morally superior to us motorists and therefore deserving of special rights.
Mike O'Connell
Deerfield, MA
'75 Eleganza
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