| Re: [GMCnet] Dura-Cool/HC-12A source [message #93836 is a reply to message #93833 ] |
Thu, 29 July 2010 12:55   |
 Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 1384
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ |
Senior Member |
|
|
Good timing Roy! I just re-read Emery's how-to article and feel better about where I am on this. My resultant outlet temps are definitely good considering the ambient.(in fact my R134 temp differential wasn't bad either) I don't run a tach but I left the engine on the fast idle cam (with the choke off of course) so I'm guessing my idle was about 1200 rpm. My fan clutch was not engaged. Also, I'm estimating I had about 2 1/2 cans in there which also seems to be in the range Emery talks about. The fact that I improved that much in outlet temps is nothing to sneeze at. I'll live with it on the road and see what I think in a month or so. And yes, the high pressure line was too hot to touch.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Dura-Cool/HC-12A source [message #93897 is a reply to message #93836 ] |
Thu, 29 July 2010 19:33 |
C Boyd
Messages: 1079
Registered: April 2006 |
Senior Member |
|
|
| Bob de Kruyff wrote on Thu, 29 July 2010 13:55 |
Good timing Roy! I just re-read Emery's how-to article and feel better about where I am on this. My resultant outlet temps are definitely good considering the ambient.(in fact my R134 temp differential wasn't bad either) I don't run a tach but I left the engine on the fast idle cam (with the choke off of course) so I'm guessing my idle was about 1200 rpm. My fan clutch was not engaged. Also, I'm estimating I had about 2 1/2 cans in there which also seems to be in the range Emery talks about. The fact that I improved that much in outlet temps is nothing to sneeze at. I'll live with it on the road and see what I think in a month or so. And yes, the high pressure line was too hot to touch.
|
Hi Bob: I usually put a shop fan if front of the radiator. I am fixing to swap my 134a for 12a. Thanks for the reports. I understand that we are suppose to fill with liquid end of the 12a can. Do it take it ok or did you put the can in a bucket of hot water to help filling considering the outside temps?
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont by Midas
East Tennessee
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Dura-Cool/HC-12A source [message #93900 is a reply to message #93897 ] |
Thu, 29 July 2010 19:40 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 1384
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ |
Senior Member |
|
|
""Hi Bob: I usually put a shop fan if front of the radiator. I am fixing to swap my 134a for 12a. Thanks for the reports. I understand that we are suppose to fill with liquid end of the 12a can. Do it take it ok or did you put the can in a bucket of hot water to help filling considering the outside temps? ""
Yes, I did hold the can upside down with the fitting on the bottom so that it sucks liquid. It sucked it in with no extra help such as warm water - in fact the can didn't seem to get as cold as what I'm used to with 134. The first 2 cans I just let go full blast. The 3rd can I metered slowly since I knew I was going to be close to the sweet spot.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Dura-Cool/HC-12A source [message #93902 is a reply to message #93900 ] |
Thu, 29 July 2010 19:59 |
C Boyd
Messages: 1079
Registered: April 2006 |
Senior Member |
|
|
[quote title=Bob de Kruyff wrote on Thu, 29 July 2010 20:40]""Hi Bob: I usually put a shop fan if front of the radiator. I am fixing to swap my 134a for 12a. Thanks for the reports. I understand that we are suppose to fill with liquid end of the 12a can. Do it take it ok or did you put the can in a bucket of hot water to help filling considering the outside temps? ""
Yes, I did hold the can upside down with the fitting on the bottom so that it sucks liquid. It sucked it in with no extra help such as warm water - in fact the can didn't seem to get as cold as what I'm used to with 134. The first 2 cans I just let go full blast. The 3rd can I metered slowly since I knew I was going to be close to the sweet spot.[/quote}
Did it sweat back to the compressor like 134a? How did you find the sweet spot? Vent outlet temperature? Do you have a sight glass?
Thanks...
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont by Midas
East Tennessee
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Dura-Cool/HC-12A source [message #93912 is a reply to message #93902 ] |
Thu, 29 July 2010 20:38 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 1384
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ |
Senior Member |
|
|
""Did it sweat back to the compressor like 134a? How did you find the sweet spot? Vent outlet temperature? Do you have a sight glass?
Thanks... ""
Yes it did sweat on the low pressure line esp since the humidity is high right now. I do have a sight glass but with Duracool it is not a good indicator of charge. As far as finding the sweet spot, I looked at outlet temperature and frankly I could even feel it by hand on the low pressure line. So to find that spot, you have to add just a little charge once you start on the 3rd can and keep chcking the outlet temps. It will peak (actually get coldest) and then will start warming up as you continue to add more. That's when you slowly bleed a bit off untill you reach your previous coldest outlet temperature. Emery or Ken B are probably the probably the experts on this, but it seems pretty straight forward. If I do it again, I definitely will hunt down my old fashioned thermometer for more accurate outlet readings.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Dura-Cool/HC-12A source [message #93914 is a reply to message #93912 ] |
Thu, 29 July 2010 20:48 |
C Boyd
Messages: 1079
Registered: April 2006 |
Senior Member |
|
|
| Bob de Kruyff wrote on Thu, 29 July 2010 21:38 |
""Did it sweat back to the compressor like 134a? How did you find the sweet spot? Vent outlet temperature? Do you have a sight glass?
Thanks... ""
Yes it did sweat on the low pressure line esp since the humidity is high right now. I do have a sight glass but with Duracool it is not a good indicator of charge. As far as finding the sweet spot, I looked at outlet temperature and frankly I could even feel it by hand on the low pressure line. So to find that spot, you have to add just a little charge once you start on the 3rd can and keep chcking the outlet temps. It will peak (actually get coldest) and then will start warming up as you continue to add more. That's when you slowly bleed a bit off untill you reach your previous coldest outlet temperature. Emery or Ken B are probably the probably the experts on this, but it seems pretty straight forward. If I do it again, I definitely will hunt down my old fashioned thermometer for more accurate outlet readings.
|
Thanks Bob. I keep one in my GMC vent just to keep the air blowing in the direction I want and to know where it is when I need it. I got 2 more sonewhere??
[Updated on: Thu, 29 July 2010 20:49]
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont by Midas
East Tennessee
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Dura-Cool/HC-12A source [message #93917 is a reply to message #93916 ] |
Thu, 29 July 2010 21:12 |
C Boyd
Messages: 1079
Registered: April 2006 |
Senior Member |
|
|
| emerystora wrote on Thu, 29 July 2010 22:03 |
On Jul 29, 2010, at 6:59 PM, Charles Boyd wrote:
>
>
> Did it sweat back to the compressor like 134a? How did you find the sweet spot? Vent outlet temperature? Do you have a sight glass?
> Thanks...
> --
> C. Boyd
Sight glasses do not work with HC12a (Duracool). You just go by the low pressrue line's pressure. Holding the engine at 1500 RPM just shoot for about 20 psi (with about 80 deg ambient temperature). Pressure will be a bit higher with higher ambient temperatures.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
Thank you Emery... That is good news as I don`t have a sight glass. Would it help to pull a vacuum or just evacuate and charge?
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont by Midas
East Tennessee
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Dura-Cool/HC-12A source [message #93948 is a reply to message #93623 ] |
Fri, 30 July 2010 01:30 |
 Ken Burton
Messages: 3109
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana |
Senior Member |
|
|
| Ken Burton wrote on Wed, 28 July 2010 10:14 |
| k2gkk wrote on Mon, 26 July 2010 18:23 |
Thanks, Ken Burton, Ken Henderson, and Chip.
The price at Worthington Ag Parts is $6.25 per 6 oz can,
the lowest of those referrals I have received so far.
Do I also need to get the WN-401 "Refrigerant, Duracool
Recharge Kit for R134a install kit" from Worthington Ag
Parts as well, Ken?
How about the WN71428L and WN71428H low and high side
fittings?
I am NOT experienced here, at all.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ Mac Macdonald ~
~ Oklahoma City ~
~~ "Money Pit" ~~
~ '76 ex - P.B. ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> From: n9cv@comcast.net
> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 18:06:00 -0500
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Dura-Cool/HC-12A source
>
>
>
> Worthington Ag Parts
>
> http://www.worthingtonagparts.com/Low/catalog/InvMisc.Aspx
>
> Look at the bottom of this list.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
|
Let me try to answer you questions on WN71428L and WN71428H
These two items are adapters that you screw on to existing R-12 fittings so you can attach R-134 style charging and monitoring hoses. If you still have R-12 style fittings then I would suggest that you need both of these. They will stay on the coach when you are done.
You can also buy these two fittings at WalMart or AutoZone and probably save a few dollars. They usually come in a bubble pack kit for $5.00 or $6.00. The kit includes both of them.
Once that kit, or the two Worthington adapters, are installed, you can use any R-134 charging hose. I recommended the charging hose with gauge from Walmart to charge your system with Duracool.
The WN401 from Worthington is way over priced in my opinion. Go to Walmart and get the hose with gauge assembly that I recommended for around $15.00 instead.
Ken B.
|
I was at Wally World tonight so I checked on the recharge device (gauge and hose for R-134 /Duracool type cans). I did not have anything to write the number down but it cost $16.87. They also had the R-134 adapter kit for R-12 fittings for $11.00.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Dura-Cool/HC-12A source [message #93964 is a reply to message #93743 ] |
Fri, 30 July 2010 07:36 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3597
Registered: May 2006 |
Senior Member |
|
|
Bob,
That sort of mirrors my first installation. Driving the coach seemed
to balance out the system (for lack of a better description) and I
ended up somewhere between 25 - 30psi on the low side. My Caprice
wagon wants to see 30 psi or it ices over. Maybe it's the difference
in compressor types. The more air that goes through the condenser,
the lower the pressure readings.
On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Bob de Kruyff <NEXT2POOL@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Well, I decided to install Duracool after work today. First of all, I couldn't find my outlet temperature gage meant just for this. So, I used my laser scanner which I realize is far from optimum for this. Regardless at 104 ambient, my existing 134 charge gave me a consistant 67F outlet temp which I always felt was pretty cold. I bled the system down to the point of 0 psi and started to charge with Duracool. I installed it very slowly and the system didn't start to cool till about 30 psi on the low side--much higher than what I've read. I kept measuring the outlet temps in small increments and it started to warm up as I inched up on 35 psi. Then i bled it back down to 30 psi. Regardless at 30 psi, it was at it's coldest at 54f outlet and that's 13f colder than the 134 charge. At this point I can only use it at a comparative point--13f colder. That's not bad, but I'm thinking maybe my reciever dryer may need to be replaced. My high side at best outlet temp was a bit over 200p
> si. Again, the laser temp senser was not a good way to read the temps, but the difference is pretty impressive. I'm still thinking I can do better.
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
'76 EII
Sierra Vista, AZ
Urethane bushing source
www.bdub.net/ferguson/
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
