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Re: [GMCnet] Power Drive [message #86766 is a reply to message #86733] Mon, 31 May 2010 23:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Chr$ is currently offline  Chr$   United States
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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Senior Member
Now they tell me!!!! Rolling Eyes

jimk wrote on Mon, 31 May 2010 16:54

Bruce,
Your expanation is very good. I can see why I was lucky to earn a
grade of C in college in technical writing when most of the class was
pulling A and B in that class.
Many people will argue that there is no problem using the chain drive
reduction method on the coaches, but people that have been working on
these for long time admit that it does stress some of the components
on the trans.




On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 2:01 PM, Bruce Hislop <bruce@perthcomm.com> wrote:
>
>
> The downside of the PowerDrive from what I can see... and read somewhere... is the increased torque developed by the changing the chain drive ratio has to be handled by the transmission as well.
>
> Whereas if you change the final drive, the torque handled by the tranny will be reduced in favour of slightly higher rpm's.
>
> True/false??
>
> --
> Bruce Hislop,
> S. Ontario Canada
> 77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI and ESC.
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
> _______________________________________________
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>



--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ

77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
Re: [GMCnet] Power Drive [message #327206 is a reply to message #86635] Sun, 17 December 2017 10:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobDunahugh is currently offline  BobDunahugh   United States
Messages: 2465
Registered: October 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Karma: 11
Senior Member
Vadim. You covered the subject well. The T425 with a 3:07 FD, 14 inch tires, and a 4,000 lbs car was a good combination. GM had the peak HP for the 427, and 455 reached in the 3,600 to 4,200 RPM range. So higher RPM's in the 4200 range, and above isn't an issue. We have 16 inch tires, and 12,000 lbs as you covered. And a different cam profile. That's another can of worms. Till about 2003 we only had the 3:07, and 3:21. I think there was a 3:42 from Cinnabar? So the Power Drive was a way to get the RPM's up to get out of luging our engines years ago. But as you mentioned. The PD is adding more load on the T425. Then Jim K at Applied GMC came out with some great FD ratio choices up to a 4:10 ratio. These ratios ended the luging. And allow the engine/trans to work more efficiently. Some say the PD,or a lower FD ratio are the same. No. Not at all. Is the PD bad? No. It's better then nothing. In your situation. I'd leave things as they are till you have trans issues. Then change the FD ratio. I'm thinking of going to 4:10 from my 3:70. Towing, or not. I'd recommend 3:70. When I'm pulling my enclosed trailer with a car in it. A 78 Royale 403, and the 3:70 FD. My GVW is about 21,000lbs. As a side note. My mileage went up with the 3:70. As to newer engines at 1500 RPM's at 65 MPH. Their design is another kind of animal. Bob Dunahugh Member GMCMI.
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Re: [GMCnet] Power Drive [message #327213 is a reply to message #86635] Sun, 17 December 2017 13:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
zhagrieb is currently offline  zhagrieb   United States
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Registered: August 2009
Location: Portland Oregon
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Senior Member
I've had one in mine for years. Works great. Can't find any disadvantage. No need to mess with spedo error as its ratio to rear end is unchanged.

Glenn Giere, Portland OR, K7GAG '73 "Moby the Motorhome" 26'
Re: [GMCnet] Power Drive [message #327217 is a reply to message #327213] Sun, 17 December 2017 15:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
powwerjon is currently offline  powwerjon   United States
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I think that I have had almost every different drive ratio setups in the GMC’s that we have owned in the last 18 years. Our first was a 77 EL II with a 403 and a stock 3.07 ratio final drive. It was cruising at 2280 RRPM as 64 MPH. It was lacking in performance at anything under 75 MPH. Above that it got up on the cam and pulled and ran well. The first change we did was go with a 3.55 final drive. Running at 64 MPH the RPM moved up to 2880 RPM and would run well and really pull when doing a pass. Our current GMC is a 30” Buskirk Stretch with a 461 Jasper Olds with MPFI, 3.21 final and a 3.50 chain drive giving a effective 3.66 final ratio. Understand that the coach weighs14,800# pulling a loaded as a trailer Honda CRV at 3800# with a total of 18600# when we travel to and from Tucson. We run 65 MPH and pull most grades without problems. The one grade that is more difficult is the grade up the mountain from White Sands to Los Cruses a very long climb. Have done both ways and they both work well.

J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLakerTech Editor
78 Buskirk 30' Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan (On Location in Tucson)

> On Dec 17, 2017, at 12:19 PM, Glenn Giere wrote:
>
> I've had one in mine for years. Works great. Can't find any disadvantage. No need to mess with spedo error as its ratio to rear end is unchanged.
> --
> Glenn Giere, Portland OR, K7GAG
> '73 "Moby the Motorhome" 26'
>
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Re: [GMCnet] Power Drive [message #327282 is a reply to message #327206] Tue, 19 December 2017 09:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobDunahugh is currently offline  BobDunahugh   United States
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Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
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On steep grades. I shift manually to first, or sec. Run the engine RPM's up to the point that I just keep moving.. Then what till I get to the top. And don't care how fast, or how long it takes. There is one point that hasn't been covered. Your trans temps are lower with the 3:70, or 4:10 because there's less load on the trans. And the trans fluid pump is flowing more fluid to the trans cooler. As to engine life with higher RPM's back years ago. Remember. Our engines back then used carburetors, and ran different clearances. PVC systems weren't as good. They were dirty engines back then. Engines will run longer with EFI systems installed. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale Iowa Member GMCMI

________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 10:03 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: RE: Power Drive


Vadim. You covered the subject well. The T425 with a 3:07 FD, 14 inch tires, and a 4,000 lbs car was a good combination. GM had the peak HP for the 427, and 455 reached in the 3,600 to 4,200 RPM range. So higher RPM's in the 4200 range, and above isn't an issue. We have 16 inch tires, and 12,000 lbs as you covered. And a different cam profile. That's another can of worms. Till about 2003 we only had the 3:07, and 3:21. I think there was a 3:42 from Cinnabar? So the Power Drive was a way to get the RPM's up to get out of luging our engines years ago. But as you mentioned. The PD is adding more load on the T425. Then Jim K at Applied GMC came out with some great FD ratio choices up to a 4:10 ratio. These ratios ended the luging. And allow the engine/trans to work more efficiently. Some say the PD,or a lower FD ratio are the same. No. Not at all. Is the PD bad? No. It's better then nothing. In your situation. I'd leave things as they are till you have trans issues. Then change the FD ratio. I'm thinking of going to 4:10 from my 3:70. Towing, or not. I'd recommend 3:70. When I'm pulling my enclosed trailer with a car in it. A 78 Royale 403, and the 3:70 FD. My GVW is about 21,000lbs. As a side note. My mileage went up with the 3:70. As to newer engines at 1500 RPM's at 65 MPH. Their design is another kind of animal. Bob Dunahugh Member GMCMI.
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Re: [GMCnet] Power Drive [message #327314 is a reply to message #86635] Tue, 19 December 2017 17:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
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Brakes only cool when they are not generating more heat than they are
giving up. DO NOT DRAG THEM. Apply them forcefully to lower the coach speed
below the safe posted speed, then, take your foot off the pedal. If
necessary, downshift and use engine braking in addition to braking effort.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

On Dec 19, 2017 3:49 PM, "Ken Henderson" wrote:

And generally go down in the same gear you went up (or would have to).
Also, if you're going down too fast, use the brakes briskly to slow below
the desired speed, THEN downshift to the gear that's needed to control the
speed.

Ken
​, Living in Flat Country but Been Up & Down Lots of Mountains,​
H.


On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 6:39 PM, Bill Wevers wrote:

> Someone here once said, "Never go downhill in a GMC faster than you went
> up the hill..."
> Meaning: don't let your downhill speed get away from you.
> --
> Bill Wevers GMC49ers, GMC Western States
> 1975 Glenbrook - Manny Powerdrive, OneTon
> 455 F Block, G heads
> San Jose
>
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>
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Re: [GMCnet] Power Drive [message #327328 is a reply to message #327206] Wed, 20 December 2017 01:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NextGenGMC is currently offline  NextGenGMC   United States
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Great explanation. Exactly what was going through my head when I asked about PD. I just didn't have experience or sufficient info to be able to weigh all the factors on my own.


BobDunahugh wrote on Sun, 17 December 2017 08:03
Vadim. You covered the subject well. The T425 with a 3:07 FD, 14 inch tires, and a 4,000 lbs car was a good combination. GM had the peak HP for the 427, and 455 reached in the 3,600 to 4,200 RPM range. So higher RPM's in the 4200 range, and above isn't an issue. We have 16 inch tires, and 12,000 lbs as you covered. And a different cam profile. That's another can of worms. Till about 2003 we only had the 3:07, and 3:21. I think there was a 3:42 from Cinnabar? So the Power Drive was a way to get the RPM's up to get out of luging our engines years ago. But as you mentioned. The PD is adding more load on the T425. Then Jim K at Applied GMC came out with some great FD ratio choices up to a 4:10 ratio. These ratios ended the luging. And allow the engine/trans to work more efficiently. Some say the PD,or a lower FD ratio are the same. No. Not at all. Is the PD bad? No. It's better then nothing. In your situation. I'd leave things as they are till you have trans issues. Then change the FD ratio. I'm thinking of going to 4:10 from my 3:70. Towing, or not. I'd recommend 3:70. When I'm pulling my enclosed trailer with a car in it. A 78 Royale 403, and the 3:70 FD. My GVW is about 21,000lbs. As a side note. My mileage went up with the 3:70. As to newer engines at 1500 RPM's at 65 MPH. Their design is another kind of animal. Bob Dunahugh Member GMCMI.
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Vadim Jitkov '76 Glenbrook 26' Pullman, WA
Re: [GMCnet] Power Drive [message #327330 is a reply to message #86635] Wed, 20 December 2017 06:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RF_Burns is currently offline  RF_Burns   Canada
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Location: S. Ontario, Canada
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As for newer vehicles, I've owned 11 pickup trucks since 2000, all Chev and GMC. The two 2005's I had were the last pickups that actually had some getup and go, I still have one of those trucks. Its loaded for bear with a heavy-duty commercial capper and full of tools. I get whip-lash every time I get in that truck.

I traded the other 2005 for a 2010 and all the trucks since have been lazy dogs. Sure they do about 1400rpm or less at 95km/hr. They switch in and out of 4 cylinder mode. When you step on the gas it spends the next second or so deciding what gear its going to change to. I can visualize the little hour-glass spinning in its control computers. Many times its feels like you are slowing rather than accelerating in that time.

When you flip the transmission into tow/haul mode, it becomes a different truck. Accelerating from stop with my utility trailer, it may wind up to over 4,000 rpm in each gear (6 of them) before shifting. Depending on the load it may not get to the top gear and the rpms will be in the 2-3000 range at highway speed. This is with a total load of maybe 7-8000lbs.

According to the trucks display. my 2005 gets about 13.2 litres/100km combined city/hyway. The 2016 and 2017 I have now get about 12.7litre/100km. I don't think the new ones will get as much life as the 2005 with all the shifting they do.


Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
Re: [GMCnet] Power Drive [message #327332 is a reply to message #327330] Wed, 20 December 2017 07:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
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Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
Senior Member
RF_Burns wrote on Wed, 20 December 2017 07:19
As for newer vehicles, I've owned 11 pickup trucks since 2000, all Chev and GMC. The two 2005's I had were the last pickups that actually had some getup and go, I still have one of those trucks. Its loaded for bear with a heavy-duty commercial capper and full of tools. I get whip-lash every time I get in that truck.

I traded the other 2005 for a 2010 and all the trucks since have been lazy dogs. Sure they do about 1400rpm or less at 95km/hr. They switch in and out of 4 cylinder mode. When you step on the gas it spends the next second or so deciding what gear its going to change to. I can visualize the little hour-glass spinning in its control computers. Many times its feels like you are slowing rather than accelerating in that time.

When you flip the transmission into tow/haul mode, it becomes a different truck. Accelerating from stop with my utility trailer, it may wind up to over 4,000 rpm in each gear (6 of them) before shifting. Depending on the load it may not get to the top gear and the rpms will be in the 2-3000 range at highway speed. This is with a total load of maybe 7-8000lbs.

According to the trucks display. my 2005 gets about 13.2 litres/100km combined city/hyway. The 2016 and 2017 I have now get about 12.7litre/100km. I don't think the new ones will get as much life as the 2005 with all the shifting they do.

"That is what you have to expect for a new normal." - Guess who

That manufactures know all about this. They have to program the verhicles for emissions on a programed road test and CAFE. Pickups did not used to be included in CAFE. But, when the overreaching government found out that people were buying pickups because they were still fun to driver, they put an end to that as quickly as they could.

Matt


Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: [GMCnet] Power Drive [message #327339 is a reply to message #327314] Wed, 20 December 2017 11:43 Go to previous message
Kingsley Coach is currently offline  Kingsley Coach   United States
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Location: Nova Scotia Canada
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Wise words Bill Weaver...wish I had thought about that before I left Boone
NC a few years ago. Smoke at 6 wheels is a scary sight!

Mike in NM

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 7:58 PM, James Hupy wrote:

> Brakes only cool when they are not generating more heat than they are
> giving up. DO NOT DRAG THEM. Apply them forcefully to lower the coach speed
> below the safe posted speed, then, take your foot off the pedal. If
> necessary, downshift and use engine braking in addition to braking effort.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or
> 78 GMC ROYALE 403
>
> On Dec 19, 2017 3:49 PM, "Ken Henderson" wrote:
>
> And generally go down in the same gear you went up (or would have to).
> Also, if you're going down too fast, use the brakes briskly to slow below
> the desired speed, THEN downshift to the gear that's needed to control the
> speed.
>
> Ken
> ​, Living in Flat Country but Been Up & Down Lots of Mountains,​
> H.
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 6:39 PM, Bill Wevers wrote:
>
>> Someone here once said, "Never go downhill in a GMC faster than you went
>> up the hill..."
>> Meaning: don't let your downhill speed get away from you.
>> --
>> Bill Wevers GMC49ers, GMC Western States
>> 1975 Glenbrook - Manny Powerdrive, OneTon
>> 455 F Block, G heads
>> San Jose
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS

Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !
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