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[GMCnet] Power Drive [message #86635] Sun, 30 May 2010 16:33 Go to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Senior Member
G'day,

I have a 3.21 FD to install in Double Trouble and am considering installing
one of these:

http://www.casprogmc.net/powerDrive.html

I vaguely remember reading that there is a down side to these unit over the
lower ratio final drive units sold by Jim K but CRS has erased that
recollection. I went through my transmission and final drive folders but
found NADA.

What's the advantages / disadvantages of Power Drive vs. lower final drive
ratios?

Also I vaguely remember that Manny took over from Caspro, did I get that
right?

Thanks,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: [GMCnet] Power Drive [message #86636 is a reply to message #86635] Sun, 30 May 2010 16:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr ERFisher is currently offline  Mr ERFisher   United States
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
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Senior Member
you must mean this
http://www.casprogmc.net/powerDrive.html

gene
yep is manny





--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
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Re: [GMCnet] Power Drive [message #86638 is a reply to message #86636] Sun, 30 May 2010 16:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
Senior Member
Gene,

Yep, that's the one!

Now who's got one?

Thanks,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426


-----Original Message-----
From: Mr.erf ERFisher

you must mean this
http://www.casprogmc.net/powerDrive.html

gene
yep is manny



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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: [GMCnet] Power Drive [message #86640 is a reply to message #86638] Sun, 30 May 2010 17:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
Senior Member
Guys,

I just did a search of the Forum and found lots of info on the power drive.

DOUH!

Nothing grossly negative so I think I'll contact Manny OFF NET.

If someone has a nightmare story and doesn't want to post it send an email
to: robmueller at iinet dot net dot au.

Thanks,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426


-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Rob Mueller
Sent: Monday, 31 May 2010 7:56 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Power Drive

Gene,

Yep, that's the one!

Now who's got one?

Thanks,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426


-----Original Message-----
From: Mr.erf ERFisher

you must mean this
http://www.casprogmc.net/powerDrive.html

gene
yep is manny



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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: [GMCnet] Power Drive [message #86642 is a reply to message #86635] Sun, 30 May 2010 17:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rick Williams is currently offline  Rick Williams   United States
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Registered: July 2004
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Senior Member
Rob

I had one installed when I ordered a tranny from Manny about 8k miles ago. It has made a difference in just the same way as a final drive gear change. It added a couple hundred or so rpms and the coach has a bit more power in the hills. I was considering a final drive change when the original tranny failed so I opted for the power drive. I will be curious to see how yours performs if you do make the change. I have been considering changing the final drive to a 3.21 to get a bit more. I tow a Jeep Wrangler and it is about 3500 lbs. Big hills are still a struggle with the current setup and a stock 403.
I think Dave Lenzi removed his power drive and used a 3.21 when he installed his 8.1 engine. I do not remember his reason but I think he is pleased with the current setup.

Rick


Rick Williams
Bliss, Michigan
1978 Eleganza II
Re: [GMCnet] Power Drive [message #86646 is a reply to message #86642] Sun, 30 May 2010 18:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kingsley Coach is currently offline  Kingsley Coach   United States
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Registered: March 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Karma: -34
Senior Member
An interesting site and I don't think I have ever seen it before...prices
clearly stated.
Now if I didn't know him from his previous Porsche connections.....

Mike in NS






On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 7:44 PM, Rick Williams <rickw@mich.com> wrote:

>
>
> Rob
>
> I had one installed when I ordered a tranny from Manny about 8k miles ago.
> It has made a difference in just the same way as a final drive gear change.
> It added a couple hundred or so rpms and the coach has a bit more power in
> the hills. I was considering a final drive change when the original tranny
> failed so I opted for the power drive. I will be curious to see how yours
> performs if you do make the change. I have been considering changing the
> final drive to a 3.21 to get a bit more. I tow a Jeep Wrangler and it is
> about 3500 lbs. Big hills are still a struggle with the current setup and a
> stock 403.
> I think Dave Lenzi removed his power drive and used a 3.21 when he
> installed his 8.1 engine. I do not remember his reason but I think he is
> pleased with the current setup.
>
> Rick
>
> --
> Rick Williams
> Gladstone, Michigan
> 1978 Eleganza II
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
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>



--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
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Re: [GMCnet] Power Drive [message #86647 is a reply to message #86635] Sun, 30 May 2010 18:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Henderson is currently offline  Ken Henderson   United States
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
Senior Member
Rob,

When I had to rebuild an engine for the GMC immediately after buying it in
'98, I had a r300 "bench overhaul" done on the transmission and installed
the Caspro Power Drive. That transmission and chain drive are now in the
X-PB my son has. I put about 63,000 miles on it before replacing it with
the new front clip; he's probably put another 5,000 mile on it. The rebuilt
torque converter failed after 10,000 miles (cracked around the hub, just
like JR Slaten's recent failure), but otherwise, there's never been any
problem whatsoever with the transmission or chain drive.

That was before JimK started selling high ratio final drives. If I had to
choose between the 3.50 chain and his 3.55 today, it would be a hard choice,
but if I had the transmission out anyway, I'd probably save the $$$ and go
with the chain.

At the time I installed my chain, they were still being distributed by Chuck
Stoddard's Caspro; Manny has now bought the rights and is selling them.

By the way, have you thoroughly investigated the 3.21 installation? A
Dixielander buddy recently bought one that we plan to install soon.
Discussing it with 3.21 experts was an eye-opener: It's not necessarily a
straight-forward, no potential problems, affair. Axle bearings & seals,
input bearing condition, etc., etc, all need attention. I'm sending you
some more info off-net.

Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven
www.gmcwipersetc.com


On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:

> G'day,
>
> I have a 3.21 FD to install in Double Trouble and am considering installing
> one of these:
>
> http://www.casprogmc.net/powerDrive.html
>
> I vaguely remember reading that there is a down side to these unit over the
> lower ratio final drive units sold by Jim K but CRS has erased that
> recollection. I went through my transmission and final drive folders but
> found NADA.
>
> What's the advantages / disadvantages of Power Drive vs. lower final drive
> ratios?
>
> Also I vaguely remember that Manny took over from Caspro, did I get that
> right?
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
Re: [GMCnet] Power Drive [message #86649 is a reply to message #86635] Sun, 30 May 2010 18:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Chr$ is currently offline  Chr$   United States
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
Senior Member
I have both. power drive and 3.21.

I don't have a tach, but the rpm's are definitely higher. A bit too high for my taste, but I haven't really spent any serious road time in my coach, so too early to tell. I'm also used to an overdrive tranny in my truck.

I am having a bit of irritation with the 3.21. The vent hole occasionally becomes a blow hole. It is intermittent which really annoys me. I'm told 3.21's don't have this vent and it is a 3.42. Everyone who looks at the photo's say it is a 3.21. go figure. It came with a '67 eldo switch pitch.

With this combo, I can burn a patch at every intersection if I so desire. sometimes do it unintentionally.



-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ

77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
Re: [GMCnet] Power Drive [message #86651 is a reply to message #86635] Sun, 30 May 2010 18:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Massey is currently offline  Bill Massey   United States
Messages: 201
Registered: March 2009
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Senior Member
You might also check with Paul Lambke about his setup.

Lambke 3.69:1 Tranny Chain Drive Sprocket Kit
Paul Lambke - phlambke@aol or Dan Stuckey - stuckey@brktel.on.ca

bdub

-----Original Message-----
From: Behalf Of Rob Mueller
I have a 3.21 FD to install in Double Trouble and am considering installing
one of these:

http://www.casprogmc.net/powerDrive.html

I vaguely remember reading that there is a down side to these unit over the
lower ratio final drive units sold by Jim K but CRS has erased that
recollection. I went through my transmission and final drive folders but
found NADA.

What's the advantages / disadvantages of Power Drive vs. lower final drive
ratios?

Also I vaguely remember that Manny took over from Caspro, did I get that
right?

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Re: [GMCnet] Power Drive [message #86655 is a reply to message #86649] Mon, 31 May 2010 01:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
Senior Member
Chris,

OK, here's what I think I know!

If the final drive cover has eight (8) bolts it is a 3.21 and it has
planetary gears in it.

If the final drive cover has ten (10) bolts it's a 3.07 and it has spur
gears in it.

As far as any other ratios goes I found this:

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/5124/overall_drive_ratios1.pdf

I thank Ken H. for putting this together!

Mr. Erf aren't you proud of me; I found this on your website WITHOUT you
having to tell me to go look there! ;-)

I think I am safe in saying any final drive gear ratios other than 2.73,
3.07 and 3.21 are after market.

I don't know but would like to know, if the lower ratio after market gears
will fit in the 3.21 final drive.

Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Choffat

I'm told 3.21's don't have this vent and it is a 3.42. Everyone who looks
at the photo's say it is a 3.21. go figure. It came with a '67 eldo switch
pitch.


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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: [GMCnet] Power Drive [message #86656 is a reply to message #86649] Mon, 31 May 2010 01:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
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Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
Senior Member
Chris,

I missed one of your comments; according to Caspro the 3.21 and the Power
Drive results in a final drive ratio of 3.66 to 1

http://www.casprogmc.net/3.21FinalDrive.html

Jim K has a chart on his website noting that at 65 mph the rpm difference
between a stock 3.07 and 3.66 ratio is 485rpm:

http://www.appliedgmc.com/level.itml/icOid/482

Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Choffat

I have both. power drive and 3.21.

I don't have a tach, but the rpm's are definitely higher. A bit too high for
my taste, but I haven't really spent any serious road time in my coach, so
too early to tell. I'm also used to an overdrive tranny in my truck.

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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: [GMCnet] Power Drive [message #86695 is a reply to message #86635] Mon, 31 May 2010 11:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Borlase is currently offline  Dan Borlase   Canada
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Rob...
I put in Jimmy K's 370's into my 78 (403)...what a difference !!!
Yes the rpm is slightly higher, but so much less effort going up these B.C. mountains.
Dan
Re: [GMCnet] Power Drive [message #86701 is a reply to message #86635] Mon, 31 May 2010 12:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Larry is currently offline  Larry   United States
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Here's some info regarding the visual differences between the 3.21 and all of the other FD's

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=4399

HTH


Larry Smile
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
Re: [GMCnet] Power Drive [message #86710 is a reply to message #86635] Mon, 31 May 2010 15:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
zhagrieb is currently offline  zhagrieb   United States
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I've put about 13K on mine and love it. It has the same effect as changing the rear end ratio ie: allows the engine to work in a slightly higher RPM range where it produces more power. A minor drawback to the rear end change is the need to change the speedometer drive gear in order to retain accuracy. The power drive doesn't require this.

Glenn Giere


Glenn Giere, Portland OR, K7GAG '73 "Moby the Motorhome" 26'
Re: [GMCnet] Power Drive [message #86712 is a reply to message #86635] Mon, 31 May 2010 16:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RF_Burns is currently offline  RF_Burns   Canada
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The downside of the PowerDrive from what I can see... and read somewhere... is the increased torque developed by the changing the chain drive ratio has to be handled by the transmission as well.

Whereas if you change the final drive, the torque handled by the tranny will be reduced in favour of slightly higher rpm's.

True/false??


Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
Re: [GMCnet] Power Drive [message #86719 is a reply to message #86710] Mon, 31 May 2010 15:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimk is currently offline  jimk   United States
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There is a difference in the method of reducing the gear ratio .
Doing it by the chain method is not uncommon, but the load ending up
on the transmission becomes greater as the transmission is still
turning at the same rate as before.
While doing the work at the final gear does not put any additional
load on the transmission.
Even Wes C. agrees on that .
Bottom line is to at least get the ratio lower to help overall
performance without consuming more fuel.





On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Glenn Giere <glenngiere@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I've put about 13K on mine and love it.  It has the same effect as changing the rear end ratio ie: allows the engine to work in a slightly higher RPM range where it produces more power.  A minor drawback to the rear end change is the need to change the speedometer drive gear in order to retain accuracy.  The power drive doesn't require this.
>
> Glenn Giere
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [GMCnet] Power Drive [message #86725 is a reply to message #86712] Mon, 31 May 2010 16:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr ERFisher is currently offline  Mr ERFisher   United States
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Registered: August 2005
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Senior Member
theory only, never a problem that I know of

gene

>
> The downside of the PowerDrive from what I can see... and read somewhere...
> is the increased torque developed by the changing the chain drive ratio has
> to be handled by the transmission as well.
>
> Whereas if you change the final drive, the torque handled by the tranny
> will be reduced in favour of slightly higher rpm's.
>
> True/false??
>
> --
> Bruce Hislop,
> S. Ontario Canada
> 77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI and ESC.
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>



--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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Re: [GMCnet] Power Drive [message #86733 is a reply to message #86712] Mon, 31 May 2010 18:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimk is currently offline  jimk   United States
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Bruce,
Your expanation is very good. I can see why I was lucky to earn a
grade of C in college in technical writing when most of the class was
pulling A and B in that class.
Many people will argue that there is no problem using the chain drive
reduction method on the coaches, but people that have been working on
these for long time admit that it does stress some of the components
on the trans.




On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 2:01 PM, Bruce Hislop <bruce@perthcomm.com> wrote:
>
>
> The downside of the PowerDrive from what I can see... and read somewhere... is the increased torque developed by the changing the chain drive ratio has to be handled by the transmission as well.
>
> Whereas if you change the final drive, the torque handled by the tranny will be reduced in favour of slightly higher rpm's.
>
> True/false??
>
> --
> Bruce Hislop,
> S. Ontario Canada
> 77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI and ESC.
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>



--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
Re: [GMCnet] Power Drive [message #86754 is a reply to message #86733] Mon, 31 May 2010 21:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mike miller   United States
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
Senior Member
jimk wrote on Mon, 31 May 2010 16:54

...
Many people will argue that there is no problem using the
chain drive reduction method on the coaches, but people that
have been working on these for long time admit that it does
stress some of the components on the trans.


Not a small thing when considering the weakest link in our drivetrain is the transmission.


Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo' http://m000035.blogspot.com
Re: [GMCnet] Power Drive [message #86763 is a reply to message #86754] Mon, 31 May 2010 22:14 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
Senior Member
G'day,

I appreciate the information noting that the Power Drive puts additional
stress on the transmission.

However, I really would like to hear from anyone (or knows someone) that has
had a transmission with the Power Drive installed that failed.

Thanks,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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