Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » PowerLossProblem - Gatsbys' Cruiser is ending the year on a good note: (It's been a very VERY long haul, a wheel barrow of money and lots of frustration)
| PowerLossProblem - Gatsbys' Cruiser is ending the year on a good note: [message #325172] |
Thu, 19 October 2017 21:11  |
GatsbysCruise
Messages: 261
Registered: January 2017
Location: Waukegan, Illinois
Karma: 3
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I've watched a lot of message go by with terrible problems, but most of the coaches were still moving.
I took a lot of advice on this fiasco.
To catch up....
I connected an external fuel tank to the mechanical fuel pump and she ran like a top, took her down the highway and was able to get to 75 without missing a heart beat. It is definately the fuel system.
I have replaced the fuel hose from the new solenoid valve to the mechanical fuel pump.
The first test was from the main tank, no electric fuel pump and it wasn't so good. She ran until the float bowl ran out of fuel then died. How do I know this? The reserve tank has an electric fuel pump. When I turn it on to prime the line, I can hear the float bowl fill, with its gurgles and such. It isn't a plugged line or I wouldn't run at all and it isn't a damaged hose or I would see fuel on the ground. this one has to be the hoses or pick up in the tank. -- The mechanical fuel pump is bad you say? Can't be because when I used the external fuel tank, I used the mechanical fuel pump and it ran like a top...
The second test was on the reserve tank, with the electric fuel pump on.
She started and ran fine. we never finished the carb adjustments because she wouldn't run long enough, so I adjusted the idle a bit and ran her for half an hour. she ran strong and smooth. This is good, very good.
I did try some high rpm tests and she ran ok. I felt confident that we had made some ground on this one.
The third test was on the road.
Started her up on the RESERVE tank with the Electric fuel pump, and let her get the engine warm. Put her in Drive and slowly pulled down the drive way. Felt so good to be moving again.
Turned onto the road and slowly increased speed to about 20. I was nervous and hoping for the best. Got onto a deserted road and drove up to 35mph. (This was the last failed speed when I tested, that failed and I lost power). She held the speed just fine. sped up to about 35 and she just ran like a top.
I was feeling pretty good now, up to 45 mph, enjoying the ride of my GMC motorhome, listening to the engine purrr down this road.
I decided to see if we are clear of the problem or where the limit will be.
I took her down a not so busy highway, turned on and started a slow climb in speed. I made it to about 50-55 mph before the power loss showed up again. This is not the best result that I wanted but I AM DRIVING AGAIN. My limit is 50-55 MPH.
My thoughts are there has to be an air leak in the fuel tanks. We must be sucking air from the tank which when the mechanical pump was running, it sucked enough air to run the float bowl dry.
It is harder to figure the RESERVE tank. The electric fuel pump is pumping fuel from the sol fuel valves, to the mech fuel pump and as it does this, it gets air from the res tank, I think!!!..
The project will go on hold until SPRING but I am able to drive her now in town. I am again enjoying the ride and sounds of the GMC motorhome after all this time.
This spring I need to drop those tanks and have not come up with any idea how I can accomplish this yet, but I have 6 months to think about it.
MANY MANY thanks to those who have offered ideas suggestions and just read my rants. I've needed all the help I could get. and it was all good advice, I'VE GOT 55 MPH NOW!!   No weeds growing around her bumpers anymore lolol.
Thanks all for your thoughts
Gatsbys' Cruiser
GatsbysCruise. \
74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO - UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
[Updated on: Thu, 19 October 2017 21:32] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: PowerLossProblem - Gatsbys' Cruiser is ending the year on a good note: [message #325182 is a reply to message #325172] |
Fri, 20 October 2017 00:31  |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Well Here is a similar one for you on this coach we are trying to get running. It will not pump gas from the tanks. I found it yesterday. It is a broken steel line underneath the a hold down clamp on the cross member near the fuel pump. It is rusted and cracked under the clamp. So it leaks air there. Because it is on the input side of the pump, (negative pressure there) it never leaks gas, it just leaks air.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: PowerLossProblem - Gatsbys' Cruiser is ending the year on a good note: [message #325192 is a reply to message #325182] |
Fri, 20 October 2017 11:38 |
GatsbysCruise
Messages: 261
Registered: January 2017
Location: Waukegan, Illinois
Karma: 3
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Ken Burton wrote on Fri, 20 October 2017 00:31Well Here is a similar one for you on this coach we are trying to get running. It will not pump gas from the tanks. I found it yesterday. It is a broken steel line underneath the a hold down clamp on the cross member near the fuel pump. It is rusted and cracked under the clamp. So it leaks air there. Because it is on the input side of the pump, (negative pressure there) it never leaks gas, it just leaks air.
*****
Thanks Ken
At this point, I am all rubber from the solenoid valve up forward and up to the mechanical pump on the engine. The metal line in front is bypassed.
As I don't see any metal line in back by the tanks I am guessing you are talking about that front metal line.
Now if I am right and you refer to the front metal line, let me just say that it can't be cracked or when the aux pump (located by the fuel valve solenoid in the rear) is on, and the line pressurizes, I'd have a leak, wouldn't I???? I was not leaking any fuel anywhere.. Nor did I have any gas smell. The old hose and metal line is now bypassed with new rubber hose...
If the weather stays decent, I may go under and look again around the area by the tanks.. all of that hosing is new as well.
The only hose that is not new, changed in 2007, is the hose above the tanks.
If I am missing anything feel free to make me aware of it....
Thanks for the help.
GatsbysCruise. \
74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO - UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
[Updated on: Fri, 20 October 2017 12:00] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: PowerLossProblem - Gatsbys' Cruiser is ending the year on a good note: [message #325194 is a reply to message #325186] |
Fri, 20 October 2017 11:41 |
GatsbysCruise
Messages: 261
Registered: January 2017
Location: Waukegan, Illinois
Karma: 3
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JohnL455 wrote on Fri, 20 October 2017 09:00There is no substitute for a hand's on visual inspection. With some shaking and grabbing to find the weak areas. This is a perfect time to get rid of all old hose and go to Barrier hoses.
*****
I was recommended some kind of hose that is supposed to beable to withstand the effects of Ethyanol Gas. What is Barrier hose??? I certainly am looking for longevity after all this...
Thanks
GatsbysCruise. \
74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO - UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
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| Re: PowerLossProblem - Gatsbys' Cruiser is ending the year on a good note: [message #325195 is a reply to message #325187] |
Fri, 20 October 2017 11:53 |
GatsbysCruise
Messages: 261
Registered: January 2017
Location: Waukegan, Illinois
Karma: 3
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lqqkatjon wrote on Fri, 20 October 2017 09:13Time to drop the tanks and check everything out. There are a few parts that can cause headaches.
The job is really not that bad.
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/2017/04/fuel-lines.html?m=1
*****
WOW, those ramps look great!! with this project coming up this spring, I may shamelessly copy your design. Are those 2x12????
I appreciate your thought that this job is really not that bad..... Right now, looking at it, it looks like a MONSTER to me. But this RV has been plaqued with power loss problems since 2007 and it has finally been traced down to the tanks and or hoses above. ITS A LONG STORY, and has to do with the PO, work that was done on the coach and just fixing what had never been fixed by the PO...
I am thrilled to be at this point, I can go 55 mph now, USING THE GMC's FUEL TANKS!!!!!! it no longer sits in the yard.
Now another trait of the ORIGINAL problem was that as you drove down the highway, your max speed would slowly degrade. When I left upper Wisconsin I had a max speed of 55 but by the time I got to Milwaukee, I couldn't get over 35. I was trying to pick up speed going down the hills just to make it over the next.....lol... Wasn't funnya then but...
For anyone trying to contemplate what may have been happening, The gas was clean, the filters were checked and all clean, we did a flow test that seemed correct. Nothing popped out at us as a problem. We've come a long way since.
So now, I want to drive it to see if it maintains the 55 max speed. BUT all in all this Spring when the tanks are dropped will tell it all. It is the last step of this nightmare.
Thanks all...
GatsbysCruise. \
74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO - UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
[Updated on: Fri, 20 October 2017 12:15] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] PowerLossProblem - Gatsbys' Cruiser is ending the year on a good note: [message #325196 is a reply to message #325192] |
Fri, 20 October 2017 12:31 |
Emery Stora
Messages: 959
Registered: January 2011
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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The hoses above the tanks include the fuel pick up for the fuel pump. If it is now10 years old it is probably not a barrier hose (which is resistant to the ethanol in the gasoline). It could have cracks that don’t leak gasoline but could allow the fuel pump to suck in air through the cracks. This can give you the power loss problems you have alluded to.
You should replace all of those hoses with barrier hose or you can put in metal lines instead of the rubber ones.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
> On Oct 20, 2017, at 10:38 AM, slc wrote:
>
> Ken Burton wrote on Fri, 20 October 2017 00:31
>> Well Here is a similar one for you on this coach we are trying to get running. It will not pump gas from the tanks. I found it yesterday. It is
>> a broken steel line underneath the a hold down clamp on the cross member near the fuel pump. It is rusted and cracked under the clamp. So it leaks
>> air there. Because it is on the input side of the pump, (negative pressure there) it never leaks gas, it just leaks air.
>
>
> *****
>
> Thanks Ken
> At this point, I am all rubber from the solenoid valve up forward and up to the mechanical pump on the engine. The metal line in front is bypassed.
>
> As I don't see any metal line in back by the tanks I am guessing you are talking about that front metal line.
>
> Now if I am right and you refer to the front metal line, let me just say that it can't be cracked or when the aux pump is on, and the line
> pressurizes, I'd have a leak, wouldn't I???? I am not leaking any fuel anywhere.. Nor do I have any gas smell.
>
> If the weather stays decent, I may go under and look again around the area by the tanks.. all of that hosing is new as well.
> The only hose that is not new, changed in 2007, is the hose above the tanks.
>
> If I am missing anything feel free to make me aware of it....
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
>
> --
> GatsbysCruise. \
> 74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
> Located in Waukegan \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-UBUNTU STUDIO
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] PowerLossProblem - Gatsbys' Cruiser is ending the year on a good note: [message #325198 is a reply to message #325194] |
Fri, 20 October 2017 12:48 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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G'day,
It's actually called Gates Barricade Hose, just Google it.
BTW it would be nice if your signature contained your name.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of slc
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2017 11:42 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] PowerLossProblem - Gatsbys' Cruiser is ending the year on a good note:
I was recommended some kind of hose that is supposed to beable to withstand the effects of Ethyanol Gas. What is Barrier hose???
I certainly am looking for longevity after all this...
Thanks
--
GatsbysCruise. \
74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
Located in Waukegan \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-UBUNTU
STUDIO
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: PowerLossProblem - Gatsbys' Cruiser is ending the year on a good note: [message #325201 is a reply to message #325195] |
Fri, 20 October 2017 13:12 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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First spring I owned my gmc 7 years ago, i jacked up my coach, dropped tanks and changed all fuel lines. Took me a dedicated weekend, and i had never worked on a gmc before.
This past spring after working on my coach and occational others, I dropped and replaced all the fuel lines in that eleganza. I probably had 10-12 hours start to finish on that one.
As for the ramps, they are on the gmc site:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/wood-ramp-construction/p5006.html
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: PowerLossProblem - Gatsbys' Cruiser is ending the year on a good note: [message #325205 is a reply to message #325172] |
Fri, 20 October 2017 14:31 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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You could even have a small air leak in lines in the tank itself. Or something loose in the tank that occasionally blocks the intake. Or a tear in a rubber hose that drops down occasionally and blocks the flow. Or the electric fuel pump or a bad diaphragm mechanical pump. Or........
If it were me, I'd drop the tanks, and replace EVERYTHING from the sending unit to the engine. EVERYTHING! E V E R Y T H I N G!!!!
Life is too short to deal with problems like this and the cost to replace EVERYTHING is mouse nuts in the scheme of things.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: [GMCnet] PowerLossProblem - Gatsbys' Cruiser is ending the year on a good note: [message #325206 is a reply to message #325205] |
Fri, 20 October 2017 15:19 |
johnd01
Messages: 354
Registered: July 2017
Location: Sacrameot
Karma: -1
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I am very new, but I would make sure I had a drop in fuel pressure before I
dropped the tanks. You should have five psi if you are running a carburetor.
On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 12:31 PM, Kerry Pinkerton
wrote:
> You could even have a small air leak in lines in the tank itself. Or
> something loose in the tank that occasionally blocks the intake. Or a tear
> in a
> rubber hose that drops down occasionally and blocks the flow. Or the
> electric fuel pump or a bad diaphragm mechanical pump. Or........
>
> If it were me, I'd drop the tanks, and replace EVERYTHING from the sending
> unit to the engine. EVERYTHING! E V E R Y T H I N G!!!!
>
> Life is too short to deal with problems like this and the cost to replace
> EVERYTHING is mouse nuts in the scheme of things.
> --
> Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
>
> Had 5 over the years. Still have the first a 76 that will be rebodied
> into an art deco car hauler.
>
> http://www.bdub.net/pinkerton/
>
> '03 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
>
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*John Phillips*
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Johnd01
John Phillips
Avion A2600 TZE064V101164
Rancho Cordova, CA (Sacramento)
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| Re: [GMCnet] PowerLossProblem - Gatsbys' Cruiser is ending the year on a good note: [message #325216 is a reply to message #325196] |
Fri, 20 October 2017 17:10 |
GatsbysCruise
Messages: 261
Registered: January 2017
Location: Waukegan, Illinois
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Emery Stora wrote on Fri, 20 October 2017 12:31The hoses above the tanks include the fuel pick up for the fuel pump. If it is now10 years old it is probably not a barrier hose (which is resistant to the ethanol in the gasoline). It could have cracks that don't leak gasoline but could allow the fuel pump to suck in air through the cracks. This can give you the power loss problems you have alluded to.
You should replace all of those hoses with barrier hose or you can put in metal lines instead of the rubber ones.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
*******
Maybe I don't understand the answer... These problems showed their ugly head when the fuel lines were replaced in 2007 so the hoses were new.
I was new to the coach and they replaced the carb, messed with the distributor, la, dee dah. Ran ok for about 20 miles then troubles began again.
It's a long sorry story, replaced most everything on the engine including 4 carbs, manifold, 3 fuel pumps (one rusted out internally and was only 3 years old. This is what destroyed carb #3).
I am considering replacing the hoses above the tanks with metal if I can get a good permanent seal to the tanks. Don't know how to do that yet but i am still studying all this.
The hose I ran from the fuel solenoid valve to the motor mechanical pump is supposed to be the latest ethynol resistant hose. My original thoughts were to run up to the metal line that crosses the cross member but just bypassed that metal pipe because some told me that the metal pipe could be plugged. Any idea why they used metal in that area of the engine compartment???????
I have not found any cracks on any of the hose that I have inspected/replaced so far but my mechanic says that doesn't mean there isn't a problem where I have not been able to visually check it yet. He is betting there is a problem above the tanks, thinking a pinched hose. And when I think about it, that can easily fit into the scheme of the problem. I just can't get to it.
Like I posted before, I talked to the GMC dealer and they quoted $3,000 to drop the tanks and replace the hoses. I more or less told them "WHEN PIGS FLY"...
They kept saying they had a GMC in before and they had no problem with the money, so I know where they are coming from. They don't have a rack to lift a GMC motorhome anyway, would have to do it all manually. SO THEY ARE OUT!!!!
There is a fellow South of me that I am told could do the job but his life is changing a bit so I don't know how willing he'd be wanting to help out. But If I can get him on the phone, we'll see what can be worked out.
Meanwhile, I am taking a very close look at Jons RAMPS because it is very possible that I will have to do this myself and I can guarantee its gonna take longer than a week as I am learning as I go from this point...
I've given up hope that the limitation is bad gas as the gas is all fresh, I've gone over the hose, replaced most of it and found no kinks. It is pretty much a sure thing where the problem is.
But as I say, this has been a good thing, I am up to 55 MPH... From sitting in the driveway dead, that is a big push forward.
I installed some unique COB valance lights, have the parking brakes cabled up and found a way to secure the drawers and doors so they won't fly open while traveling... So it seems we are now on an up-swing.
AND WE CAN NOW GO 55 MPH!!!! Its a good day!
slc
GatsbysCruise. \
74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO - UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
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| Re: [GMCnet] PowerLossProblem - Gatsbys' Cruiser is ending the year on a good note: [message #325217 is a reply to message #325206] |
Fri, 20 October 2017 17:13 |
GatsbysCruise
Messages: 261
Registered: January 2017
Location: Waukegan, Illinois
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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johnd01 wrote on Fri, 20 October 2017 15:19I am very new, but I would make sure I had a drop in fuel pressure before I
dropped the tanks. You should have five psi if you are running a carburetor.
On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 12:31 PM, Kerry Pinkerton
wrote:
*******
i have had flow tests done, 3 times, they all were ok. On top of this, I ran the GMC with an external gas can connected to the engine fuel pump and it drove like normal, 75 mph was no problem.
Connect back to the GMC tanks, and we have power problems again.
Besides even if the pressure was bad, the tanks still have to be dropped to find it.
slc
GatsbysCruise. \
74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO - UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
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| Re: [GMCnet] PowerLossProblem - Gatsbys' Cruiser is ending the year on a good note: [message #325219 is a reply to message #325200] |
Fri, 20 October 2017 17:42 |
GatsbysCruise
Messages: 261
Registered: January 2017
Location: Waukegan, Illinois
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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johnd01 wrote on Fri, 20 October 2017 12:50Are auto parts stores selling gas lines that are not compatible with
today's fuels?
How often do the fuel lines need to be changed?
*****
I can answer this one.
in 2007 they did have a hose that resisted the ethanol, but not a lot of people were aware of the problems until your hose rotted away. Seems to me it took a few years to do it.
I am told that the hoses today are pretty much some degree of ethanol protected, but you still have to check as counter people at some establishments don't think about it and could sell you some of the old hose with no protection.
Some folks have tried to circumvent the problem by putting in entirely metal fuel lines.
I seem to think if you just put metal line where you cannot access it, such as above the tanks, and have hose were you can get at it, changing the fuel line would not be that big of a problem. Just my thoughts on that one.
slc
GatsbysCruise. \
74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO - UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
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| Re: PowerLossProblem - Gatsbys' Cruiser is ending the year on a good note: [message #325220 is a reply to message #325172] |
Fri, 20 October 2017 18:12 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Worked with someone over the phone recently who dropped the tanks and changes hoses only to have supply issues. Turned out something got pinched when he lifted tanks back up.
Replace senders, and drop tanks. 1/2 your project is done with new hoses from the fuel selector valve forward.
The ramps are super handy for more then just fuel tanks. Gmc creeps up on them easily for a quick look under the front or rear of coach.
Call me if and when you do go through the work of dropping tanks. I can give some more hints and tricks to make the whole process go well.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: PowerLossProblem - Gatsbys' Cruiser is ending the year on a good note: [message #325223 is a reply to message #325220] |
Fri, 20 October 2017 18:58 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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You do probably do have a feed problem. First I would do is take gas cap off and blow shop air into each tank thru switching valve to clear anything in the tanks. I would then take for a test drive and if it acts up remove gas cap to make sure tanks are venting. If still no changes drop the tanks taking note on paper where what lines are and check the book to make sure none are crossed. Pull the sending units and check gaskets and pick up tubes for holes. Any corrosion or rusty spot is suspect. Clean and check vent and generator fittings. Good luck...
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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