Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter
| Re: [GMCnet] Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter... DEAD [message #271588 is a reply to message #271587] |
Tue, 10 February 2015 08:18   |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Is the 2.7 one of the "interference" engines where a broken cam chain destroys the engine?
If I remember from the short time I tried to be a salesman at a Dodge dealership, the cam chains were supposed to be replaced every 60,000 miles or something like that.
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"--OO--[]---O-"
> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 07:10:58 -0700
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: my427v8@hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter... DEAD
>
> Neal Krisher wrote on Tue, 10 February 2015 07:57
>> A little Google reading reveals you wouldn't be the first one to have this issue. Seems a few have had perfectly running cars, shut them off and
>> they never restart. Most are valve train related.
>>
>> Looking around on carpart, lightly used engines are anywhere from @$900 - $2000.
>> I guess it comes down to how much you like the car and if you want to dump anymore money into it.
>>
>>
>> It'll still be a Dodge no matter what. :twisted:
>
>
> Ha ha I like Chryslers for the most part, better than fords anyway.
>
> Where did you see mention of valve train?
>
> If I can find a useable engine and get it installed I'll go for it.
> I like the car and engine replacements are usually cheaper than new cars :p
> --
> Keith Vasilakes
> Mounds View. MN
> 75 ex Royale GMC
> 69 Vette
> 29 Dodge
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| Re: Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271592 is a reply to message #271442] |
Tue, 10 February 2015 08:36 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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I wonder...this is apparently an interference engine and was running fine when shut off, that is, wasn't making loud expensive noises, and then was locked up. Could something have failed and is jamming the engine that wouldn't necessarily DESTROY the engine, for instance, a timing chain could be jammed and not allowing anything to turn but not really hurt the engine that bad??? It might be worth a tear down to determine the problem before doing a complete replacement.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271603 is a reply to message #271591] |
Tue, 10 February 2015 09:28 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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kerry pinkerton wrote on Tue, 10 February 2015 08:31Bummer Keith. Can you get a 403 in it...
I actually know a guy that put a rear wheel drive V8 in an older model sebring...
It is a horrid hack job, but it works...
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271611 is a reply to message #271592] |
Tue, 10 February 2015 10:30 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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kerry pinkerton wrote on Tue, 10 February 2015 09:36I wonder...this is apparently an interference engine and was running fine when shut off, that is, wasn't making loud expensive noises, and then was locked up. Could something have failed and is jamming the engine that wouldn't necessarily DESTROY the engine, for instance, a timing chain could be jammed and not allowing anything to turn but not really hurt the engine that bad??? It might be worth a tear down to determine the problem before doing a complete replacement.
Kieth,
From what I can glean from my few remaining friends at Chrysler, it maybe that the failure was non-fatal. But, that does nor mean it can be repaired with the engine in place. It may have to be removed. There were some failures reported that locked the cam drive solid, but the individual that knew of those did not the total extent of the damage.
I will make some more calls.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter... DEAD [message #271669 is a reply to message #271580] |
Wed, 11 February 2015 01:04 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Ok, I lost track on this thread. Has the fan / serpentine belt been removed to eliminate the belt driven accessories? I had one on a different vehicle where the AC clutch froze up. It was jammed so badly that it would not crank. I removed the belt and everything ran fine.
I'm sorry for the duplicate if someone else has already suggested this.
To me this really sounds like a starter bendix jammed, but I never would own or drive a Chrysler so my experience is very limited. I think I drove a 57 Plymouth once in the early 60's with the push button transmission.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter... DEAD [message #271706 is a reply to message #271669] |
Wed, 11 February 2015 15:29 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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Ken Burton wrote on Wed, 11 February 2015 01:04Ok, I lost track on this thread. Has the fan / serpentine belt been removed to eliminate the belt driven accessories? I had one on a different vehicle where the AC clutch froze up. It was jammed so badly that it would not crank. I removed the belt and everything ran fine.
I'm sorry for the duplicate if someone else has already suggested this.
To me this really sounds like a starter bendix jammed, but I never would own or drive a Chrysler so my experience is very limited. I think I drove a 57 Plymouth once in the early 60's with the push button transmission.
Yeah the plugs are out, belts off and it does NOT budge with an 18" breaker bar.
It feels too tight to be cam related, I'd expect some slop with the cam drive slack.
It feels like a main bearing froze. It's just solid.
I'm busy tonight, but Tomorrow ( thursday I plan on pulling the starter, the valve covers and dropping the pan.
If I don't root cause this it will haunt me to my grave! LOL
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter... DEAD [message #271720 is a reply to message #271706] |
Wed, 11 February 2015 17:28 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Keith V wrote on Wed, 11 February 2015 16:29Yeah the plugs are out, belts off and it does NOT budge with an 18" breaker bar.
It feels too tight to be cam related, I'd expect some slop with the cam drive slack.
It feels like a main bearing froze. It's just solid.
I'm busy tonight, but Tomorrow ( thursday I plan on pulling the starter, the valve covers and dropping the pan.
If I don't root cause this it will haunt me to my grave! LOL
Keith,
I knew I liked you when we met.
Let us know what you find.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271722 is a reply to message #271442] |
Wed, 11 February 2015 17:38 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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If engine were locked starter would make heck of a thunk. And go up in smoke in short time. Check both battery cables at batt and neg at block. Do you have another group 75 to do a 5 min test swap. Now a days batteries fail in wierd ways with little warning. Even new ones. A hand held digital batt load tester is a great tool. Dial to 650 or what is printed on case, hit test and you get instant pass/fail lights
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271925 is a reply to message #271723] |
Fri, 13 February 2015 22:31 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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I hate to disappoint Matt , but I didn't drop the oil pan.
Too much exhaust and framing in the way
I did get the valve cover off and it looks nice. A little varnish but wet and no sludge
Also loosened the starter definitely feels like the bottom end froze up
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271958 is a reply to message #271442] |
Sat, 14 February 2015 08:39 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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So I don't think the bottom end is locked as in big bearings, it's locked as in valves hitting pistons. Guessing belt slipped right at start crank attempt. Hate to say it but it might be worth more a a part out based on what the blue book is on Sebrings. . Best luck.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271967 is a reply to message #271442] |
Sat, 14 February 2015 10:13 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Keith, I can bring a plasma cutter over and we can get that engine out quick, so we can check what is wrong. Or we can bring it to my work, and pull it out with the track hoe.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271984 is a reply to message #271967] |
Sat, 14 February 2015 14:15 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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lqqkatjon wrote on Sat, 14 February 2015 10:13Keith, I can bring a plasma cutter over and we can get that engine out quick, so we can check what is wrong. Or we can bring it to my work, and pull it out with the track hoe.
LOL I have a cutting torch too 
a local "auto recycler" may be able to replace the engine, with a year warenty for < $3000
There are 3 possible engines for it so I have to get the VIN to see if they can.
About $1000 for the engine, 1200 installation, plus warranty.
I sure wouldn't swap that engine for $1200 !
It's double overhead cam V6 it has timing chains so I doubt the slipped
Also I can't budge the engine forward or backwards so I doubt it's a dropped valve
I did take an oil sample, we'll see if that shows anything interesting.
I will make them check the trans before putting in the new engine to make sure the TC is free at least.
It would really suck to swap engines to find the problem is a stick Torque converter!
( can that even happen?? )
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271990 is a reply to message #271442] |
Sat, 14 February 2015 15:11 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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My mechanic buddy says he has seen a couple of those wherein one of the oil passages gets hot, cokes up, and plugs, which runs the bottom end oilless and leads to unannounced lockup. He has one as a daily driver, runs it on synthetic (Mobil 1) and says he has no problems. Bought it with a seized engine and transplanted one out of a wreck.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271991 is a reply to message #271984] |
Sat, 14 February 2015 15:14 |
Neal Krisher
Messages: 54
Registered: November 2013
Location: Apple Valley, MN
Karma: 0
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Keith V wrote on Sat, 14 February 2015 14:15
There are 3 possible engines for it so I have to get the VIN to see if they can.
car-part.com shows only 2.7's...
(Conv, Sdn), 2.4L (VIN X, 8th digit)
(Conv, Sdn), 2.7L, VIN R (8th digit)
(Conv, Sdn), 2.7L, VIN T (8 digit, flex fuel)
Abco in Fridley shows a low mile engine on hand ...
PSI 205, FWD,2.7L,TESTED,OD,4-06 67,000 A 034933 $1099.99 Abco Fridley Auto Parts USA-MN(Fridley) E-mail 763-784-8890
"Life has no instruction manual. Parts and labor can be impossible to find. Many go down the road with parts that are in need of service. A breakdown is eventual."
1975 26', TZE165V100301 Project/Driver
1977 26' TZE167V100439 Parts unit
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| Re: Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271992 is a reply to message #271442] |
Sat, 14 February 2015 15:25 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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From allpar.com, engines, 2.7:
The 2.7 liter engine originally had a tendency to generate sludge which caused engine failure. Similar problems have been appearing on Toyota and Volkswagen engines. We were told that, shortly after the first reported cases, Chrysler isolated the problem to the crankcase ventilation system; hydrocarbons were entering the oil and breaking down the additives. This problem was solved (around 2002-2004), and the number of engine failures appears to be small.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271995 is a reply to message #271992] |
Sat, 14 February 2015 16:12 |
Neal Krisher
Messages: 54
Registered: November 2013
Location: Apple Valley, MN
Karma: 0
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Johnny Bridges wrote on Sat, 14 February 2015 15:25This problem was solved (around 2002-2004), and the number of engine failures appears to be small. --johnny
I guess that makes Keith lucky. 
"Life has no instruction manual. Parts and labor can be impossible to find. Many go down the road with parts that are in need of service. A breakdown is eventual."
1975 26', TZE165V100301 Project/Driver
1977 26' TZE167V100439 Parts unit
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