Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Possible 16" wheel for those who want a different offset and alcoa styling without spacers?
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| Re: Possible 16" wheel for those who want a different offset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #255917 is a reply to message #255904] |
Sat, 19 July 2014 23:05   |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
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kwharland wrote on Sat, 19 July 2014 18:42All this leads me to wonder what the offset of the 16x8 Dodge wheels is? Carl S?
Sorry, I don't remember what the offset is on the Dodge rims. I'm sure I measured them at one time, but don't recall the measurement. I know the backside is very deep as you can see from the pics in the link I posted earlier. I believe it to be somewhere around 5.5 - 6 inches. Most of the extra two inches of width is to the outside.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: Possible 16" wheel for those who want a different offset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #255966 is a reply to message #255960] |
Sun, 20 July 2014 21:00 |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769
Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
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Check my math to make sure I am doing it right, as I am not a suspension engineer, not do I play one on TV...
I am showing a 9.84" difference in track front to rear, using the published 85.12" rear and 75.28" front numbers. That is a front to back difference on each side of 4.92"
Using 130.81mm as the offset for the alcoas on 6" wheels and 6mm for the offset of the Eagle 7" wheels, the front inside edge should be 111mm or 4.37" further out, and the outside edge 137mm or 5.39" further out. By my math, the outside edge of the 7" wheel would be .47" further out than the front. Sounds about right for a wheel 1" wider.
The effects the spacers, or different offsets (which is all spacers effectively do), have on the bearings is a whole other arguement. Perhaps the one ton coversion is better engineered to handle the offset increase. Just seems like yet another reason to convert.
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
[Updated on: Sun, 20 July 2014 21:02] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Possible 16" wheel for those who want a different offset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #255969 is a reply to message #255966] |
Sun, 20 July 2014 21:14 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
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I have a good deal of hands on experience in this arena. Stock GMC front
ends with extended wheel spacers that match tread width front to rear
minimizes rut following, but IF THERE IS WEAR IN THE COMPONENTS, will
aggravate torque steer and wander. When you install a 1 ton, all components
are new. If the alignment is to specifications for radial tires, there are
not any steering issues or torque steer either. Have not noticed any
significant front tire wear as well.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Jul 20, 2014 7:00 PM, "Joe Weir" wrote:
> Check my math to make sure I am doing it right, as I am not a suspension
> engineer, not do I play one on TV...
>
> I am showing a 9.84" difference in track front to rear, using the
> published 85.12" rear and 75.28" front numbers. That is a front to back
> difference
> on each side of 4.92"
>
> Using 130.81mm as the offset for the alcoas on 6" wheels and 6mm for the
> offset of the Eagle 7" wheels, the front inside edge should be 111mm or
> 4.37"
> further out, and the outside edge 137mm or 5.39" further out. By my math,
> the outside edge of the 7" wheel would be .47" further out than the front.
> Sounds about right for a wheel 1" wider.
>
> The effects the spacers, or different offsets (which is all spacers
> effectively do, have on the bearings is a whole other arguement. Perhaps
> the one
> ton coversion is better engineered to handle the offset increase. Just
> seems like yet another reason to convert.
>
>
> --
> 76 Birchaven - New engine, trans, aluminum radiator, brakes, airbags, fuel
> lines, seats, upholstery, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were
> really thinking about us second hand owners...
> Columbia, SC.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] Possible 16" wheel for those who want a differentoffset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #255984 is a reply to message #255966] |
Sun, 20 July 2014 23:17 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Joe,
For the record 2" spacers have been available and sold for YEARS and have not wrought havoc on the front wheel bearings. It has been
noted that they can accentuate steering problems.
There really doesn't have to be any discussion of where the wheel will wind up, I will take photos of the Eagle wheel and post them
to the Photo Site as soon as I get it.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Weir
Check my math to make sure I am doing it right, as I am not a suspension engineer, not do I play one on TV...
I am showing a 9.84" difference in track front to rear, using the published 85.12" rear and 75.28" front numbers. That is a front
to back difference on each side of 4.92"
Using 130.81mm as the offset for the alcoas on 6" wheels and 6mm for the offset of the Eagle 7" wheels, the front inside edge should
be 111mm or 4.37" further out, and the outside edge 137mm or 5.39" further out. By my math, the outside edge of the 7" wheel would
be .47" further out than the front. Sounds about right for a wheel 1" wider.
The effects the spacers, or different offsets (which is all spacers effectively do, have on the bearings is a whole other arguement.
Perhaps the one ton coversion is better engineered to handle the offset increase. Just seems like yet another reason to convert.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Possible 16" wheel for those who want a differentoffset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #256012 is a reply to message #256009] |
Mon, 21 July 2014 12:21 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
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Spacers are part of the 1 ton package. The factory GM 1 ton front end is
also fitted with spacers, they are iron or steel, the Huber Ver. I I is
aluminum.
Jim Hupy
On Jul 21, 2014 10:11 AM, "Don Adams" wrote:
>
> Am I wrong that spacers are used on some 1 tons?
>
> My/Arch's coach has over 40,000 miles with spacers. With steel
Michelins, steering is touchy but no problem wih spacers.
> --
> Don Adams Dallas, TX
> '76 26' Glenbrook, '90 Sidekick
> rebuilt by R Archer, powered by J Bounds, Koba [IMG][/color]
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6109/G2.jpg[/IMG]
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| Re: [GMCnet] Possible 16" wheel for those who want a differentoffset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #256205 is a reply to message #255984] |
Wed, 23 July 2014 07:37 |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769
Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
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Update: Wheel arrived today. No time to check fitment, Rob will probably get there before me. It has "made in USA" cast into the backside of the spoke, along with Max pressure 60 PSI. The country of origin was a nice surprise.
I am scanning tire inflation charts to find if the max inflation is going to be a problem. I was planning on running a wider tire, perhaps a 245/70-16, but the closest I can find listed so far is the 245/75-16 size showing load at 60 PSI as 2480lbs. While this certainly seems adequate, I would love to find the std. specs on the 245/70.
This also opens the can of worms of availability as the 245/70 appears to be no where near as common as the 245/75. I guess not a lot of trucks go for staggered tire setups... 
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Possible 16" wheel for those who want adifferentoffset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #256210 is a reply to message #256205] |
Wed, 23 July 2014 08:26 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Aw S#!T,
I wish Summit had noted the 60 psi in their catalog, I run Kumho 225/75-16 Road Vantage tires at 65 psi in the front and 60 psi in
the middle and rears.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Weir
Update: Wheel arrived today. No time to check fitment, Rob will probably get there before me. It has "made in USA" cast into the
backside of the spoke, along with Max pressure 60 PSI. The country of origin was a nice surprise.
I am scanning tire inflation charts to find if the max inflation is going to be a problem. I was planning on running a wider tire,
perhaps a
245/70-16, but the closest I can find listed so far is the 245/75-16 size showing load at 60 PSI as 2480lbs. While this certainly
seems adequate, I would love to find the std. specs on the 245/70.
This also opens the can of worms of availability as the 245/70 appears to be no where near as common as the 245/75. I guess not a
lot of trucks go for staggered tire setups... :lol:
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Possible 16" wheel for those who want adifferentoffset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #256213 is a reply to message #256210] |
Wed, 23 July 2014 08:48 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
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A long time back someone had posted that the pressure stated in the casting was for the installer when setting the bead. They said it did not apply to the running pressure. I do not know if this is true though.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
On Jul 23, 2014, at 7:26 AM, Rob Mueller wrote:
> Aw S#!T,
>
> I wish Summit had noted the 60 psi in their catalog, I run Kumho 225/75-16 Road Vantage tires at 65 psi in the front and 60 psi in
> the middle and rears.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Weir
>
> Update: Wheel arrived today. No time to check fitment, Rob will probably get there before me. It has "made in USA" cast into the
> backside of the spoke, along with Max pressure 60 PSI. The country of origin was a nice surprise.
>
> I am scanning tire inflation charts to find if the max inflation is going to be a problem. I was planning on running a wider tire,
> perhaps a
> 245/70-16, but the closest I can find listed so far is the 245/75-16 size showing load at 60 PSI as 2480lbs. While this certainly
> seems adequate, I would love to find the std. specs on the 245/70.
>
> This also opens the can of worms of availability as the 245/70 appears to be no where near as common as the 245/75. I guess not a
> lot of trucks go for staggered tire setups... :lol:
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Possible 16" wheel for those who want adifferentoffset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #256226 is a reply to message #256213] |
Wed, 23 July 2014 10:21 |
GMC Cruse
Messages: 606
Registered: June 2009
Location: SE Michigan
Karma: 3
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emerystora wrote on Wed, 23 July 2014 09:48A long time back someone had posted that the pressure stated in the casting was for the installer when setting the bead. They said it did not apply to the running pressure. I do not know if this is true though.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
From the Alcoa Service Manual:
"Do not overinflate. Use the tire manufacturer's recommended pressure, but under no circumstances
exceed cold tire pressures roll stamped on the wheel."
Mike K.
'75 PB
Southeast Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Possible 16" wheel for those who want adifferentoffset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #256246 is a reply to message #256226] |
Wed, 23 July 2014 11:45 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
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GMC Cruse wrote on Wed, 23 July 2014 10:26
From the Alcoa Service Manual:
"Do not overinflate. Use the tire manufacturer's recommended pressure, but under no circumstances
exceed cold tire pressures roll stamped on the wheel."
Well it looks like you have a choice to make. Use the wheel rating and possibly run the tire under inflated or run the correct pressure and exceed the wheel rating. I vote for running the tire at recommended ratings. I feel the wheel rating probably has enough safety factor to handle 5psi over and that, for me, is preferable to running a bit low on tire pressure.
YOMV
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Possible 16" wheel for those who want adifferentoffset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #256252 is a reply to message #256210] |
Wed, 23 July 2014 12:39 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
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USAussie wrote on Wed, 23 July 2014 08:26Aw S#!T,
I wish Summit had noted the 60 psi in their catalog, I run Kumho 225/75-16 Road Vantage tires at 65 psi in the front and 60 psi in
the middle and rears.
Regards,
Rob M. Check the weight on the front. If you are close to balanced (with driver and copilot), 65 PSI will carry 4670 pounds on the front two wheels. The Operating Manual for your 75 says at GVW the front shouldn't weigh more than 4200 pounds. If your vehicle is not overloaded, you should be running between 55 and 60 PSI, within the range for that rim, and your front tires are currently overinflated.
Edit: Corrected to "65 PSI will carry 4670 pounds on the front".
[Updated on: Wed, 23 July 2014 12:41] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Possible 16" wheel for those who want adifferentoffsetand alcoa styling without spacers? [message #256255 is a reply to message #256246] |
Wed, 23 July 2014 13:14 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Steve,
Since the wheel in question is made by Eagle I really don't care what Alcoa says! ;-)
I have sent American Eagle the following:
Quote:
Hi,
I purchased the wheel below from Summit:
AEW-0589-7788
Wheel, Series 058, Aluminum, Polished, 16 in. x 7 in., 8 x 6.5 in. Bolt Circle, 4.25 in. Backspace (Mfr. #: 0589-7788)
I would like to run LT tires on it which have a max pressure rating of 85 psi, is this wheel rated for that pressure, if not what is
the max pressure it is rated for. The Summit catalog did not provide the pressure rating.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Unquote:
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: g Steve Southworth
Well it looks like you have a choice to make. Use the wheel rating and possibly run the tire under inflated or run the correct
pressure and exceed the wheel rating. I vote for running the tire at recommended ratings. I feel the wheel rating probably has
enough safety factor to handle 5psi over and that, for me, is preferable to running a bit low on tire pressure.
YOMV
--
Steve
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Possible 16" wheel for those who want adifferentoffsetand alcoa styling without spacers? [message #256259 is a reply to message #256252] |
Wed, 23 July 2014 13:35 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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A,
I understand what you've noted but I'd say I "should" be running whatever pressure makes Double Trouble handle well and 65 psi in
the fronts and 60 psi in the rears accomplishes that. I get even tread wear across the tires on the front as well.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: A.
Check the weight on the front. If you are close to balanced (with driver and copilot), 60 PSI will carry 4670 pounds on the front
two wheels. The Operating Manual for your 75 says at GVW the front shouldn't weigh more than 4200 pounds. If your vehicle is not
overloaded, you should be running between 55 and 60 PSI, within the range for that rim, and your front tires are currently
overinflated.
--
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Possible 16" wheel for those who want a differentoffset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #256267 is a reply to message #256205] |
Wed, 23 July 2014 15:02 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Joe Weir wrote on Wed, 23 July 2014 05:37Update: Wheel arrived today. No time to check fitment, Rob will probably get there before me. It has "made in USA" cast into the backside of the spoke, along with Max pressure 60 PSI. The country of origin was a nice surprise.
I am scanning tire inflation charts to find if the max inflation is going to be a problem. I was planning on running a wider tire, perhaps a 245/70-16, but the closest I can find listed so far is the 245/75-16 size showing load at 60 PSI as 2480lbs. While this certainly seems adequate, I would love to find the std. specs on the 245/70.
This also opens the can of worms of availability as the 245/70 appears to be no where near as common as the 245/75. I guess not a lot of trucks go for staggered tire setups...
I have found it very difficult to find just the right tire for the 8" wide rim. I am running a 255/70R16 LR-D BFG All Terrain KO on the front of my coach. It is not the ideal tire configuration as they wear faster than a highway tread tire, but it is close to the ideal size in terms of diameter and width. You will find it almost impossible to find a light truck rated (LT) tire in a better size than this one. Keep in mind also that a larger tire will carry more weight at a lower pressure.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
[Updated on: Wed, 23 July 2014 18:00] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Possible 16" wheel for those who want adifferentoffset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #256297 is a reply to message #256210] |
Wed, 23 July 2014 19:30 |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769
Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
Karma: 7
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USAussie wrote on Wed, 23 July 2014 08:26Aw S#!T,
I wish Summit had noted the 60 psi in their catalog, I run Kumho 225/75-16 Road Vantage tires at 65 psi in the front and 60 psi in
the middle and rears.
Rob,
All is not lost. The 245/75 load range E tire, is made for a 7" rim and is rated at 4960lbs at the front axle at 60 PSI. That should be plenty. It may suck to buy a larger tire if you have perfectly good fronts, but you are going to lose front to rear interchange ability with the different offset anyway.
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Possible 16" wheel for those who want adifferentoffset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #256333 is a reply to message #256297] |
Wed, 23 July 2014 23:25 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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This looks like a promising possibility for a tire for the front:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Dick+Cepek&tireModel=Trail+Country&partnum=47R6TCOWL&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1 =yes&tab=Specs
It mounts on a 6.5" - 8" wide rim and is only slightly taller than a 225/75R16. Also, it is a load range E.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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