Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Oh, Sure, Another Fan Clutch
| Re: Oh, Sure, Another Fan Clutch [message #246967 is a reply to message #246772] |
Wed, 09 April 2014 21:24   |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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I have a meeting with Wells in 2 weeks. I'll see what they have or if something can be modified. Haven't seen one in the flesh, but there must be a stationary mounted section where the wire and connector tail out. So these are sent a PWM signal to get the duty cycle? Must factor engine RPM from the crank sensor as well. For example 50% duty at 650 idle and 50% at 3000 RPM won't translate in a linear fashion.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Oh, Sure, Another Fan Clutch [message #246971 is a reply to message #246967] |
Wed, 09 April 2014 21:47 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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| JohnL455 wrote on Wed, 09 April 2014 20:24 |
I have a meeting with Wells in 2 weeks. I'll see what they have or if something can be modified. Haven't seen one in the flesh, but there must be a stationary mounted section where the wire and connector tail out. So these are sent a PWM signal to get the duty cycle? Must factor engine RPM from the crank sensor as well. For example 50% duty at 650 idle and 50% at 3000 RPM won't translate in a linear fashion.
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John, with GM these are controlled by the ECM based on many inputs, The wire loom is usually just clipped to the fan shroud.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oh, Sure, Another Fan Clutch [message #247027 is a reply to message #247012] |
Thu, 10 April 2014 13:53 |
mikethebike
Messages: 331
Registered: January 2014
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Yes. But that is just too damned easy. The parts are available through Summit, Jegs and others and don't cost that much. In all the cars I've owned with them none have failed and the 1979 Ford Fiesta we had is still around town and had 400,000 miles on it the last time I saw it. Original fan, engine, transmission and steering rack. The 240-D we had still has the original fan in front of the radiator and that car has 600,000 on it.
| A Hamilto wrote on Thu, 10 April 2014 10:41 |
| mikethebike wrote on Thu, 10 April 2014 09:50 |
Thermostat controlled electric. Simple. Reliable. Cost effective.
|
Yep. To quote a previous poster:
"Wouldn't it make more sense to trigger it off the engine coolant temp?"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oh, Sure, Another Fan Clutch [message #247028 is a reply to message #247002] |
Thu, 10 April 2014 13:49 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Well, lessee....
5200cfm fans from Summit......210
Thermoswitch kit........................45
totals 265
Heavy duty Delco clutch from Applied 170.
Not cost effective.
One piece clutch
thermostat, relay, wiring
Not simple either.
Can't agree.
--johnny
'76 23 transmode norris
Braselton GA
________________________________
From: mike foster <mafoster1@bellsouth.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2014 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Oh, Sure, Another Fan Clutch
Thermostat controlled electric. Simple. Reliable. Cost effective.
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oh, Sure, Another Fan Clutch [message #247029 is a reply to message #247028] |
Thu, 10 April 2014 14:30 |
GMC.LES
Messages: 505
Registered: April 2014
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Various electric fans have been tried by several owners with poor success. Give it a try and share your results.
Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza 26ft
A work in Progress
On Apr 10, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Johnny Bridges <jhbridges@ymail.com> wrote:
Well, lessee....
5200cfm fans from Summit......210
Thermoswitch kit........................45
totals 265
Heavy duty Delco clutch from Applied 170.
Not cost effective.
One piece clutch
thermostat, relay, wiring
Not simple either.
Can't agree.
--johnny
'76 23 transmode norris
Braselton GA
________________________________
From: mike foster <mafoster1@bellsouth.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2014 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Oh, Sure, Another Fan Clutch
Thermostat controlled electric. Simple. Reliable. Cost effective.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oh, Sure, Another Fan Clutch [message #247030 is a reply to message #247029] |
Thu, 10 April 2014 15:29 |
 |
WD0AFQ
Messages: 7111
Registered: November 2004
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| Les Burt[1 |
wrote on Thu, 10 April 2014 14:30]Various electric fans have been tried by several owners with poor success. Give it a try and share your results.
Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza 26ft
A work in Progress
On Apr 10, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Johnny Bridges <jhbridges@ymail.com> wrote:
Well, lessee....
5200cfm fans from Summit......210
Thermoswitch kit........................45
totals 265
Heavy duty Delco clutch from Applied 170.
Not cost effective.
One piece clutch
thermostat, relay, wiring
Not simple either.
Can't agree.
--johnny
'76 23 transmode norris
Braselton GA
________________________________
From: mike foster <mafoster1@bellsouth.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2014 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Oh, Sure, Another Fan Clutch
Thermostat controlled electric. Simple. Reliable. Cost effective.
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I second your statements, as I am sure most who have been here for a while will also. A quick search will find a lot of work has been tried and nothing panned out with electric. When someone can come up with a setup that works there will be numerous owners who will pay the originator a profit, should he wish to sell this setup.
Dan, who has been lucky with fan clutches.
3 In Stainless Exhaust Headers
One Ton All Discs/Reaction Arm
355 FD/Quad Bag/Alum Radiator Manny Tran/New eng.
Holley EFI/10 Tire Air Monitoring System
Solarized Coach/Upgraded Windows
Satelite TV/On Demand Hot Water/3Way Refer
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oh, Sure, Another Fan Clutch [message #247031 is a reply to message #247029] |
Thu, 10 April 2014 16:08 |
Sammy Williams
Messages: 522
Registered: August 2010
Karma: -2
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Why not a hard mount fan without a clutch. I had an El Camino with a 454
that had a fan with no clutch. Worked just fine.
On Apr 10, 2014 2:30 PM, "Les Burt" <gmc.les@gmail.com> wrote:
> Various electric fans have been tried by several owners with poor success.
> Give it a try and share your results.
>
> Les Burt
> Montreal
> 1975 Eleganza 26ft
> A work in Progress
>
>
>
> On Apr 10, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Johnny Bridges <jhbridges@ymail.com> wrote:
>
> Well, lessee....
> 5200cfm fans from Summit......210
> Thermoswitch kit........................45
>
> totals 265
>
> Heavy duty Delco clutch from Applied 170.
>
> Not cost effective.
>
> One piece clutch
>
> thermostat, relay, wiring
>
> Not simple either.
>
> Can't agree.
>
> --johnny
> '76 23 transmode norris
> Braselton GA
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: mike foster <mafoster1@bellsouth.net>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2014 10:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Oh, Sure, Another Fan Clutch
>
>
>
>
> Thermostat controlled electric. Simple. Reliable. Cost effective.
>
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oh, Sure, Another Fan Clutch [message #247032 is a reply to message #247031] |
Thu, 10 April 2014 16:26 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
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| Sammy Williams wrote on Thu, 10 April 2014 14:08 |
Why not a hard mount fan without a clutch. I had an El Camino with a 454
that had a fan with no clutch. Worked just fine.
|
The only reason why is that it takes horsepower to turn a fan all the time, and horsepower takes gasoline. And it's not like we're not already burning enough gas...
I know that my fan kicks on and off just cruising down the road, but it's hotter here than most places. Well, most places where humans actually live, that is... 
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oh, Sure, Another Fan Clutch [message #247046 is a reply to message #247032] |
Thu, 10 April 2014 17:59 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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| habbyguy wrote on Thu, 10 April 2014 15:26 |
| Sammy Williams wrote on Thu, 10 April 2014 14:08 |
Why not a hard mount fan without a clutch. I had an El Camino with a 454
that had a fan with no clutch. Worked just fine.
|
The only reason why is that it takes horsepower to turn a fan all the time, and horsepower takes gasoline. And it's not like we're not already burning enough gas...
I know that my fan kicks on and off just cruising down the road, but it's hotter here than most places. Well, most places where humans actually live, that is...
|
I had one fail in the engaged position and it is a very unpleasant condition--although it will cool. The noise is terrible and the loss in power indicates what kind power is needed to cool one of these babies.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oh, Sure, Another Fan Clutch [message #247047 is a reply to message #247029] |
Thu, 10 April 2014 18:04 |
mikethebike
Messages: 331
Registered: January 2014
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Jeg's part number 555-5211:
16" fan, thermostat, harness, delivered...$151.95.
But, what the hell, if you want SIMPLE you install a Flex-a-Lite S/S 10,000 rpm fan. Pulls air back across the engine so strong at idle that you cannot tune the idle mix without putting a piece of cardboard up in front of the carb. It then flattens out as the revs build with the added bonus of sounding some what similar to a blower.
But from what I've read on here there are damned few who really want simple what with BURT installing a throttle body from a what 4.3 litre engine on a 455 cid engine? Then there are the 1-ton with the positive roll-radius geometry, the Cadillac disc brakes, the solar charged lithium batteries, the improperly routed fuel tank evaporator lines, the hydra-boost brakes, dual stage Buick torque converters, the lower ring/pinion ratios and the list goes on and on. Hell, the only thing I can think of that is more complex than what I've seen here would be the installation of the power train from a HUMVEE.
| Les Burt[1 |
wrote on Thu, 10 April 2014 14:30]Various electric fans have been tried by several owners with poor success. Give it a try and share your results.
Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza 26ft
A work in Progress
On Apr 10, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Johnny Bridges <jhbridges@ymail.com> wrote:
Well, lessee....
5200cfm fans from Summit......210
Thermoswitch kit........................45
totals 265
Heavy duty Delco clutch from Applied 170.
Not cost effective.
One piece clutch
thermostat, relay, wiring
Not simple either.
Can't agree.
--johnny
'76 23 transmode norris
Braselton GA
________________________________
From: mike foster <mafoster1@bellsouth.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2014 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Oh, Sure, Another Fan Clutch
Thermostat controlled electric. Simple. Reliable. Cost effective.
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[Updated on: Thu, 10 April 2014 18:06] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oh, Sure, Another Fan Clutch [message #247048 is a reply to message #247032] |
Thu, 10 April 2014 17:59 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
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In addition to the power drag don't forget about the constant noise of the fan. With a fan clutch it comes on when needed and the noise goes away when its off.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
On Apr 10, 2014, at 3:26 PM, Mark <mark@habcycles.com> wrote:
>
>
> Sammy Williams wrote on Thu, 10 April 2014 14:08
>> Why not a hard mount fan without a clutch. I had an El Camino with a 454
>> that had a fan with no clutch. Worked just fine.
>
> The only reason why is that it takes horsepower to turn a fan all the time, and horsepower takes gasoline. And it's not like we're not already burning enough gas...
>
> I know that my fan kicks on and off just cruising down the road, but it's hotter here than most places. Well, most places where humans actually live, that is... ;)
> --
> Mark Hickey
> Mesa, AZ
> 1978 Royale Center Kitchen
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oh, Sure, Another Fan Clutch [message #247051 is a reply to message #247027] |
Thu, 10 April 2014 18:41 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Do they weigh 12,500 pounds and have the aerodynamics of a barn door? Kind
of two different worlds. How much coolant is present also is a big factor.
Am not saying that electric fans won't work, just that small vehicle
systems might have a huge deficit in the size and capability department.
Trucks, maybe. Still, it is worth a serious look. I have had 3 clutch fan
failures on my coach. One lockup, the other 2 were lack of engagement when
they should have. Definitely not a good thing.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC Royale 403
On Apr 10, 2014 4:02 PM, "mike foster" <mafoster1@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
> Yes. But that is just too damned easy. The parts are available through
> Summit, Jegs and others and don't cost that much. In all the cars I've
> owned with them none have failed and the 1979 Ford Fiesta we had is still
> around town and had 400,000 miles on it the last time I saw it. Original
> fan, engine, transmission and steering rack. The 240-D we had still has the
> original fan in front of the radiator and that car has 600,000 on it.
>
> A Hamilto wrote on Thu, 10 April 2014 10:41
> > mikethebike wrote on Thu, 10 April 2014 09:50
> > > Thermostat controlled electric. Simple. Reliable. Cost effective.
> > Yep. To quote a previous poster:
> >
> > "Wouldn't it make more sense to trigger it off the engine coolant temp?"
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oh, Sure, Another Fan Clutch [message #247053 is a reply to message #247031] |
Thu, 10 April 2014 18:50 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Noise would be the main rason, I'd think.
--johnny
________________________________
From: Sammy Williams <bd5av8r@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2014 5:08 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Oh, Sure, Another Fan Clutch
Why not a hard mount fan without a clutch. I had an El Camino with a 454
that had a fan with no clutch. Worked just fine.
On Apr 10, 2014 2:30 PM, "Les Burt" <gmc.les@gmail.com> wrote:
> Various electric fans have been tried by several owners with poor success.
> Give it a try and share your results.
>
> Les Burt
> Montreal
> 1975 Eleganza 26ft
> A work in Progress
>
>
>
> On Apr 10, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Johnny Bridges <jhbridges@ymail.com> wrote:
>
> Well, lessee....
> 5200cfm fans from Summit......210
> Thermoswitch kit........................45
>
> totals 265
>
> Heavy duty Delco clutch from Applied 170.
>
> Not cost effective.
>
> One piece clutch
>
> thermostat, relay, wiring
>
> Not simple either.
>
> Can't agree.
>
> --johnny
> '76 23 transmode norris
> Braselton GA
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: mike foster <mafoster1@bellsouth.net>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2014 10:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Oh, Sure, Another Fan Clutch
>
>
>
>
> Thermostat controlled electric. Simple. Reliable. Cost effective.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
|
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oh, Sure, Another Fan Clutch [message #247054 is a reply to message #247051] |
Thu, 10 April 2014 19:06 |
mikethebike
Messages: 331
Registered: January 2014
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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The aerodynamic drag coefficient of the GMC was about .31 and until the Taurus/Sable were introduced had the lowest of any American automotive product. As far as the weight? The ONLY time the fan is really cooling the engine is below about 40 mph or so. After that enough air is being forced through the radiator you don't need it. It is at idle where you really need it. Precisely why it was invented....to reduce fuel consumption on the highway when your engine is turning higher rpm.
Do you think for one minute that these things generate more heat than a 700 HP ZR-1 crammed into the Vette with all that EPA junk that we don't have? What about a HUMVEE?
Electric fans, properly installed and sized work. But those two items might just be the reason some on here have had trouble with them. Kind of like installing the evaporator lines from the fuel tanks to the liquid separator and putting the lines from the tanks on the TOP instead of on the bottom where they belong, They go on the bottom (at least that is how the factory manual shows them) so that any condensed fuel goes back to the tank and not to the line towards the canister where it can block the venting of the tanks. So, until I have definitive proof that the people who claim all the trouble with EMF fans used the proper sized unit, installed it correctly I have no reason to put any credibility in their claims.
| James Hupy wrote on Thu, 10 April 2014 18:41 |
Do they weigh 12,500 pounds and have the aerodynamics of a barn door? Kind
of two different worlds. How much coolant is present also is a big factor.
Am not saying that electric fans won't work, just that small vehicle
systems might have a huge deficit in the size and capability department.
Trucks, maybe. Still, it is worth a serious look. I have had 3 clutch fan
failures on my coach. One lockup, the other 2 were lack of engagement when
they should have. Definitely not a good thing.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC Royale 403
On Apr 10, 2014 4:02 PM, "mike foster" <mafoster1@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
> Yes. But that is just too damned easy. The parts are available through
> Summit, Jegs and others and don't cost that much. In all the cars I've
> owned with them none have failed and the 1979 Ford Fiesta we had is still
> around town and had 400,000 miles on it the last time I saw it. Original
> fan, engine, transmission and steering rack. The 240-D we had still has the
> original fan in front of the radiator and that car has 600,000 on it.
>
> A Hamilto wrote on Thu, 10 April 2014 10:41
> > mikethebike wrote on Thu, 10 April 2014 09:50
> > > Thermostat controlled electric. Simple. Reliable. Cost effective.
> > Yep. To quote a previous poster:
> >
> > "Wouldn't it make more sense to trigger it off the engine coolant temp?"
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oh, Sure, Another Fan Clutch [message #247055 is a reply to message #247029] |
Thu, 10 April 2014 19:09 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Maybe my prior post wasn't clear. I've no intention of installing an electric fan or fans on my coach, the reasons being it costs more and the installation is more complex than the stock clutch. One pays money for complexity. Not this one.
In point of fact, I have both systems on vehicles I own. My '05 Ranger and GMC coach have clutched fans operated by the heat of the air coming throuigh the radiator. Both are box stock, shipped with the vehicles. The Ranger, 170 odd thousand miles, the coach 100 thousand. My toad, '88 re engined Ranger, has a pair of Summit Racing fans using a relay activated by a thermostatic switch. Since this doesn't work well, they also have an override switch to turn them on manually when they don't operate as planned. This system is more complex than the clutch, consequently its lesser reliability isn't surprising.
The initial post, copied below, notes that I can't agree with Mike's statement, and gives the reasons.
I realize, now I've bragged on the one in the coach, it will promptly fail and make a fool of me, which is why I have a replacement Delco one I got from Applied when the water pump went Dixie on me last year. I didn't think the clutch would have survived the shaking and banging, but to date it has.
--johnny
________________________________
From: Les Burt <gmc.les@gmail.com>
To: "gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org" <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2014 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Oh, Sure, Another Fan Clutch
Various electric fans have been tried by several owners with poor success. Give it a try and share your results.
Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza 26ft
A work in Progress
On Apr 10, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Johnny Bridges <jhbridges@ymail.com> wrote:
Well, lessee....
5200cfm fans from Summit......210
Thermoswitch kit........................45
totals 265
Heavy duty Delco clutch from Applied 170.
Not cost effective.
One piece clutch
thermostat, relay, wiring
Not simple either.
Can't agree.
--johnny
'76 23 transmode norris
Braselton GA
________________________________
From: mike foster <mafoster1@bellsouth.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2014 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Oh, Sure, Another Fan Clutch
Thermostat controlled electric. Simple. Reliable. Cost effective.
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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