Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » muffler and placement
| Re: [GMCnet] muffler and placement [message #159645 is a reply to message #159642] |
Wed, 08 February 2012 14:44   |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
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Yes, some O2 sensors are usually 2 wire. The heated one have 3 or 4 wires. These have a heating element built in so that they come up to operating temperature more quickly.
The sensors only work effectively when heated to approximately 316 °C (600 °F), so most newer lambda probes have heating elements encased in the ceramic that bring the ceramic tip up to temperature quickly. Older probes, without heating elements, would eventually be heated by the exhaust, but there is a time lag between when the engine is started and when the components in the exhaust system come to a thermal equilibrium. The length of time required for the exhaust gases to bring the probe to temperature depends on the temperature of the ambient air and the geometry of the exhaust system. Without a heater, the process may take several minutes.
So, if you place the sensor farther from the engine it might not work well unless its a heated sensor.
Emery Stora
On Feb 8, 2012, at 1:32 PM, sgltrac wrote:
>
>
> Emery,
> A heated O2 sensor??
> --
> Sully
> 77 Royale basket case.
> Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
> _______________________________________________
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Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] muffler and placement [message #159646 is a reply to message #159642] |
Wed, 08 February 2012 14:45 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
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Sully, I am not Emery, but a heated O2 sensor is sometimes used in a
circuit in order to insure that the sensor operates in th optimal
temperature range to give the most accurate readings. They can be
identified by the fact that they have at least two wires and most of the
time three. The sensor is an analog device that produces a variable voltage
the hotter that it operates. Lean mixtures create more heat and voltage,
and rich mixtures creat less heat and lower voltage. The modem in the
computer interprets the analog signal produced by the O2 sensor, digitizes
it, and varies the fuel injection pulse width accordingly adjusting the
richness or leanness of the fuel/air ratio. Clear as mud, right?
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 12:32 PM, sgltrac <sgltrac@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Emery,
> A heated O2 sensor??
> --
> Sully
> 77 Royale basket case.
> Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: muffler and placement [message #159647 is a reply to message #159632] |
Wed, 08 February 2012 14:56 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
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Leigh Harrison has a very close to OEM style muffler system available. 2 mufflers up front, all mandrell bent pipes and 3" pipe down passenger side. 3" pipe is 13 ft long and probably difficult to ship. He provides SSbands to join the pieces, no muffler U-clamps to compromise the pipe shape.
I installed this in my first coach, and will do the same in my current coach. Fit is excellent, without any trimming needed. Long 3" exhaust pipe was fun to handle.
Tom phipps,
MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
[Updated on: Wed, 08 February 2012 14:57] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: muffler and placement [message #159650 is a reply to message #159647] |
Wed, 08 February 2012 15:23 |
PETEinLongBeach
Messages: 90
Registered: June 2007
Location: Long Beach, CA
Karma: 0
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| tphipps wrote on Wed, 08 February 2012 12:56 |
Leigh Harrison has a very close to OEM style muffler system available. 2 mufflers up front, all mandrell bent pipes and 3" pipe down passenger side. 3" pipe is 13 ft long and probably difficult to ship. He provides SSbands to join the pieces, no muffler U-clamps to compromise the pipe shape.
I installed this in my first coach, and will do the same in my current coach. Fit is excellent, without any trimming needed. Long 3" exhaust pipe was fun to handle.
Tom phipps,
MS II
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I'm hoping to keep the muffler replacement as simple and minimal as possible, as the rest of the system is in perfect shape, including the original heat shields...
Pete Smay
Long Beach, CA
1977 Kingsley
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| Re: [GMCnet] muffler and placement [message #159656 is a reply to message #159646] |
Wed, 08 February 2012 17:10 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
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Yes Jim, clear as mud :). Do I care?
Sully
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: James Hupy <jamesh1296@gmail.com>
Sender: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 12:45:52
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Reply-To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] muffler and placement
Sully, I am not Emery, but a heated O2 sensor is sometimes used in a
circuit in order to insure that the sensor operates in th optimal
temperature range to give the most accurate readings. They can be
identified by the fact that they have at least two wires and most of the
time three. The sensor is an analog device that produces a variable voltage
the hotter that it operates. Lean mixtures create more heat and voltage,
and rich mixtures creat less heat and lower voltage. The modem in the
computer interprets the analog signal produced by the O2 sensor, digitizes
it, and varies the fuel injection pulse width accordingly adjusting the
richness or leanness of the fuel/air ratio. Clear as mud, right?
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 12:32 PM, sgltrac <sgltrac@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Emery,
> A heated O2 sensor??
> --
> Sully
> 77 Royale basket case.
> Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] muffler and placement [message #159660 is a reply to message #159647] |
Wed, 08 February 2012 17:21 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Tom,
Is this the kit you're talking about?
http://idencorpgmc.com/product.php?id_product=33
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Phipps
Leigh Harrison has a very close to OEM style muffler system available. 2 mufflers up front, all mandrell bent pipes and 3" pipe
down passenger side. 3" pipe is 13 ft long and probably difficult to ship. He provides SSbands to join the pieces, no muffler
U-clamps to compromise the pipe shape.
I installed this in my first coach, and will do the same in my current coach. Fit is excellent, without any tirming needed. Long
3" exhaust pipe was fun to handle.
Tom phipps,
MS II
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: muffler and placement [message #159668 is a reply to message #159628] |
Wed, 08 February 2012 20:32 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
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| sgltrac wrote on Wed, 08 February 2012 10:04 |
... It seems that there are two camps of thought on muffler placement, front and rear. There also seem to be single muffler and dual muffler groups. ...
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You could also have a single dual inlet muffler up front and a small in-line muffler, shaped like a cherry bomb, in the rear. I am fairly sure you have room for that.
Many modern cars have several mufflers "in series." (Wifes Audi has 4 mufflers and 4 cats. none very large.)
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] muffler and placement [message #159671 is a reply to message #159622] |
Wed, 08 February 2012 20:35 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| emerystora wrote on Wed, 08 February 2012 10:06 |
Actually I have a 1977 Kingsley.
There were at least two others that had a rear muffler but I am the first to put it in line with the tail pipe along the frame.
I also believe that I was the first to use the Flomaster 70 muffler.
It has a rumble at idle but when the engine revs up there are internal reflectors that cancel out the sound waves so while driving it is relatively quiet.
The others used quite a bit of bends in tubing to get the muffler mounted under the rear in the area of the trailer hitch.
Jim K. asked me permission to duplicate my setup and he sells a kit.
My writeup can be seen at: http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=3123
Emery Stora
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Well I stand corrected. Maybe I'm thinking about JR's coach.
Sorry....
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] muffler and placement [message #159677 is a reply to message #159633] |
Wed, 08 February 2012 21:57 |
rvanwin
Messages: 325
Registered: April 2007
Location: Battlefield, MO
Karma: 6
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| Keith V wrote on Wed, 08 February 2012 12:48 |
My O2 sensor is just after the header.
it's too hot there, keeps over heating, so I'll have to move it back a ways.
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If you are talking about your narrow band O2 sensor, you do not want to move it back any further. If you have it just after the header that is about where it should be. With headers, normally you needed a heated O2 sensor in order to keep it hot enough because headers generally allows more heat to be given off. At idle, the O2 can get too cold and stop working until the engine is at higher RPMs. Also, you don't want to move the O2 too far down the stream because the delay in sensing mixture and resultant correction can cause some problems with fueling. Generally, the ECM is "timed" based on the O2 sensor being 7 - 12 inches from the exhaust ports. I believe you might have a different problem than your O2 getting too hot. Narrow Band O2 sensors do go bad so that is a possibility - sometimes getting what I call "lazy". A lazy O2 sensor does not switch between rich and lean very quickly and can cause longer periods of the mixture being either too rich or too lean. If you do not have a heated sensor then it is possible you need a heated sensor because of the headers. Grounds can be a problem with the sensor so that is also a possibility.
If you are talking about a WB O2 (not used to give feedback to the ECM) then that sensor should be placed further down the line because excessive heat can shorten the life of the sensor. The Narrow band and WB sensors work differently from each other.
Randy & Margie
'77 Eleganza II '403'
Battlefield, MO
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| Re: muffler and placement [message #159830 is a reply to message #159583] |
Thu, 09 February 2012 23:55 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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So I spoke some more with Miguel and then ended up calling Ron at SpinTech. Looks like I will order one of the 8000 series mufflers for trucks and RVs. It is a two in at 2.5" and one out at 3". If that is too loud, maybe a glass pack at the rear where Emery and Keith put their mufflers as I should have ample room for that. Meanwhile, here is the chunk of a refinery I removed this evening. I MMSed Miguel a photo on my phone and he just laughed 
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=42613&title=huge-muffler-thing&cat=3
Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] muffler and placement [message #159892 is a reply to message #159837] |
Fri, 10 February 2012 11:08 |
MIGUEL MENDEZ
Messages: 179
Registered: August 2004
Location: Montclair, California
Karma: 3
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no no, does anyone remember that shop in squim washington, dino scorce, or something like that, well, i got several units come through the shop with these on, wow, what a mess that was, we removed them and install the spin tech 8347 up front, after trying many other brands, these sound great, however, going down the road, quite inside, i just do not like putting them in the back that close to the floor, just cannot deal with a fire, it would just be my luck
Miguel
1978 Royale Pain in the %$@, side bath w/ a 403 that i love.
GMC name : The other woman
http://www.mgmgmc.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] muffler and placement [message #160051 is a reply to message #159892] |
Sun, 12 February 2012 03:25 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Fire is a problem anywhere you install mufflers. Ask Dan about the hole he burned in his floor. You should have heat shields on them. Our new rear muffler came with a heat shield. I also had a heat shield on my old up front mufflers. Without it I would have burned a hole in the floor when it got a softball size hole in the top.
Heat Shields, either OEM or added, are highly recommended.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] muffler and placement [message #162738 is a reply to message #159892] |
Mon, 12 March 2012 10:52 |
mickeysss
Messages: 1476
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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miguel
it's mickey i am planning on being up to monte claire on wed. the 14th to get the gmc by
trian, call me if this is ok with you. l have a place to put it now by anaheim. unless you want to drive it down
and i give you a ride back. it is about 30 minute drive really. I am at ball and disneyland drive. let me know.
i am very sure you would rather ;pick me up at the station with it and i drop you off. 714 642 5399
thank you for everything. mickey talk with you soon. your phone is full on the messages.
On Feb 10, 2012, at 9:08 AM, MIGUEL MENDEZ wrote:
>
>
> no no, does anyone remember that shop in squim washington, dino scorce, or something like that, well, i got several units come through the shop with these on, wow, what a mess that was, we removed them and install the spin tech 8347 up front, after trying many other brands, these sound great, however, going down the road, quite inside, i just do not like putting them in the back that close to the floor, just cannot deal with a fire, it would just be my luck
> --
> Miguel
>
> 1978 Royale Pain in the %$@, rear bath w/ a 403 that i love.
>
> GMC name : The other woman
>
>
> http://www.mgmgmc.com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] muffler and placement [message #162853 is a reply to message #162738] |
Tue, 13 March 2012 08:51 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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It has been a bit since I started this thread but I finished the exhaust system and finally found time to take and post some pics. It is a single muffler set up and I uploaded some pics to the gmc site. The exhaust note appears to be tolerable with the single spin tech muffler but loaded road tests will tell the whole story.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=6037
Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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