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| [GMCnet] water pump [message #112787] |
Sun, 23 January 2011 16:55  |
john arbuckle
Messages: 122
Registered: March 2010
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Hey yall,
I just purchased an expansion tank I plan on using for my accumulator
tank. I have an old shurflow number 2088-403-444 that is still
functional. I se the PSI on the label is 40 psi. I need the start up
PSI to set the pressure in the tank. Does anyone off hand know this or
how would I figure it out? Any assistance would be appreciated. I want
to set the pressure right so I burn nothing up. Thanks gentlemen an
ladies if anyone is logged on.
John Arbuckle
1976 Palm Beach
Tucson AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] water pump [message #112818 is a reply to message #112813] |
Sun, 23 January 2011 19:29  |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| carguy wrote on Sun, 23 January 2011 19:09 |
The pressure in the accumulator tank should be set the same as the water pressure that your pump puts out. Once installed you will love it.
DO NOT make a mistake and put the tank on a hot water line. Really strange things happen. Guess how I know.
Here are some photos of my install. http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=4849
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NOT true Bill. If you set the air in the tank to equal the maximum or shut off pressure of the pump then the tank will accumulate nothing.
If your pump puts out 40 PSI, then I would initially set the air tank at 20 PSI. You can fine tune it later.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] water pump [message #112852 is a reply to message #112787] |
Sun, 23 January 2011 22:37 |
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OOps, right Ken.
It's been a while since I did mine so I did some internet research. I learned that for maximum efficiency and water delivery the accumulator tank pressure charge should be the same as the pump switch turn-on setting not the turn off setting.
Bill Brown - '77 Buckeye Cruiser
Coshocton OH
carguybill@sbcglobal.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] water pump [message #112860 is a reply to message #112855] |
Sun, 23 January 2011 23:06 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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John,
I think you'll find a 120vac/LPG refrigerator a good deal cheaper than a
3-way. And there's little reason to have the 12VDC mode because it uses too
much battery power and doesn't cool very well -- maintaining temperature
enroute is about all it's good for. If you're paranoid about using LPG when
travelling (I'm not), you might consider the 12VDC, but, frankly, leaving
the refrigerator door closed is probably all you need to do for a full day's
travel.
The Dometic 2752 has been very satisfactory for us. I did have to replace
the one installed in '99 in '09, but only because I delayed responding to a
safety recall. At that time there were a LOT of surplus RV parts on the
market so I got one for, IIRC, <$700.
If your water pump will produce 30-40 psi, I'd keep using it. With your
accumulator, you shouldn't have any surging -- the bane of older pumps.
Ken H.
On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 11:49 PM, john arbuckle <jarbuckle1209@gmail.com>wrote:
> So twenty PSI sound good? Thanks for going as far as internet
> research. One more question tonight. I need a new fridge, the one in
> there was a dometic 3 way. Is there a model you recommend or anyone
> else for that matter. Do I want a 3 way fridge or would a two way be
> more economic. Just more purchases I need to make. And another thing
> should I buy a new water pump tis one I believe was built in 93, and
> if so which ones would work well with my 5 gallon expansion tank.
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] water pump [message #112865 is a reply to message #112860] |
Sun, 23 January 2011 23:20 |
john arbuckle
Messages: 122
Registered: March 2010
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Thanks again Ken. I will keep my eyes open for a fridge at a surplus
rv joint. Your right if the pump aint broken don't replace it.
Thank you
John Arbuckle
On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 9:06 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> John,
>
> I think you'll find a 120vac/LPG refrigerator a good deal cheaper than a
> 3-way. And there's little reason to have the 12VDC mode because it uses too
> much battery power and doesn't cool very well -- maintaining temperature
> enroute is about all it's good for. If you're paranoid about using LPG when
> travelling (I'm not), you might consider the 12VDC, but, frankly, leaving
> the refrigerator door closed is probably all you need to do for a full day's
> travel.
>
> The Dometic 2752 has been very satisfactory for us. I did have to replace
> the one installed in '99 in '09, but only because I delayed responding to a
> safety recall. At that time there were a LOT of surplus RV parts on the
> market so I got one for, IIRC, <$700.
>
> If your water pump will produce 30-40 psi, I'd keep using it. With your
> accumulator, you shouldn't have any surging -- the bane of older pumps.
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 11:49 PM, john arbuckle <jarbuckle1209@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> So twenty PSI sound good? Thanks for going as far as internet
>> research. One more question tonight. I need a new fridge, the one in
>> there was a dometic 3 way. Is there a model you recommend or anyone
>> else for that matter. Do I want a 3 way fridge or would a two way be
>> more economic. Just more purchases I need to make. And another thing
>> should I buy a new water pump tis one I believe was built in 93, and
>> if so which ones would work well with my 5 gallon expansion tank.
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] water pump [message #112870 is a reply to message #112825] |
Mon, 24 January 2011 00:58 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| john arbuckle wrote on Sun, 23 January 2011 19:58 |
So Ken it seems the concensus is 20 psi which I feel is about right.
So how would I fine tune it later? What am I looking for in a perfect
set tank? And I am thinking of mounting it under the bed right after
the output of the pump, is that OK? I really think this will be a
great investment. Thanks guys.
John Arbuckle
1976 Palm Beach
Tucson AZ
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As I stated in a previous posting, what you ideally want is for the air charge in the tank to be 2 PSI below the water pump turn on point. You can read this by monitoring the pressure at the schrader valve on the tank. Hook up an air pressure gauge to the schrader valve you should read your pre-charge pressure of 20 PSI.
Now and turn on the pump. You should see the pressure go up as the pump is running and then stop. This stopping point will be the pump turn off point which we are assuming to be around 40 psi. Now turn on water and watch the pressure gauge again. You should be able to see at what pressure the pump turns on again. This will be the pump turn on point. We are hoping this will be somewhere around 22 PSI. If it is close to 22 PSI just leave everything alone and you are done.
Because of the air pre-charge in the tank you will never be able to read below 20 PSI using his procedure. As you are running the water if the pressure drops to 20 and still runs some more before turning on the pump then the air pre-charge is too high. I would at this point bleed the tank down to a pre-charge of 15 PSI and go through the above procedure again until I found pump turn on point.
Once the turn point is discovered then pre-charge the tank to 2 PSI below the pump turn on point.
This all sounds complicated but it isn't. You should be able to do all of this in 10 to 15 minutes.
Ken B.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] water pump [message #112871 is a reply to message #112860] |
Mon, 24 January 2011 01:02 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Ken Henderson wrote on Sun, 23 January 2011 23:06 |
John,
I think you'll find a 120vac/LPG refrigerator a good deal cheaper than a
3-way. And there's little reason to have the 12VDC mode because it uses too
much battery power and doesn't cool very well -- maintaining temperature
enroute is about all it's good for. If you're paranoid about using LPG when
travelling (I'm not), you might consider the 12VDC, but, frankly, leaving
the refrigerator door closed is probably all you need to do for a full day's
travel.
The Dometic 2752 has been very satisfactory for us. I did have to replace
the one installed in '99 in '09, but only because I delayed responding to a
safety recall. At that time there were a LOT of surplus RV parts on the
market so I got one for, IIRC, <$700.
If your water pump will produce 30-40 psi, I'd keep using it. With your
accumulator, you shouldn't have any surging -- the bane of older pumps.
Ken H.
|
Ken H. said exactly what I was going to say so all I'll say is "x2".
Ken B.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] water pump [message #112928 is a reply to message #112888] |
Mon, 24 January 2011 13:09 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Tangerine wrote on Mon, 24 January 2011 08:02 |
John
You didn't get my message before??? Everyone is making way too much of
this. Charge the air pressure to 50# Hook it up to the water line.
Turn on the water pump and let it pressurize the lines. When the water
pump shuts off, release the air pressure until the water pump turn on
again. Your done!! Very simple!!
Gary W. Mills (Livonia MI)
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Yes it will work but it does not allow for maximum stored water capacity in the tank which was the reason for installing the tank in the first place.
Ken B.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] water pump [message #112966 is a reply to message #112871] |
Mon, 24 January 2011 17:15 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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There must be large differences in the performance and
power draw at 13V DC between various manufacturer's
AC/DC refrigerators. An 8 cu ft Vitrifrigo uses just
under 4 Amps at 13V DC when the compressor is running
which is about ~ 50 Watts. They use a Danfoss high
efficiency compressor and are HIGHLY insulated, two-door
fridge/freezer models that do an excellent job. They
are what I have on my boat. They aren't cheap, but
they do not have FLAME involved!
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ex-Palm Beach, 76 ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
----------------------------------------
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: n9cv@comcast.net
> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 01:02:24 -0600
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] water pump
>
>
>
> Ken Henderson wrote on Sun, 23 January 2011 23:06
> > John,
> >
> > I think you'll find a 120vac/LPG refrigerator a good deal cheaper than a
> > 3-way. And there's little reason to have the 12VDC mode because it uses too
> > much battery power and doesn't cool very well -- maintaining temperature
> > enroute is about all it's good for. If you're paranoid about using LPG when
> > travelling (I'm not), you might consider the 12VDC, but, frankly, leaving
> > the refrigerator door closed is probably all you need to do for a full day's
> > travel.
> >
> > The Dometic 2752 has been very satisfactory for us. I did have to replace
> > the one installed in '99 in '09, but only because I delayed responding to a
> > safety recall. At that time there were a LOT of surplus RV parts on the
> > market so I got one for, IIRC, <$700.
> >
> > If your water pump will produce 30-40 psi, I'd keep using it. With your
> > accumulator, you shouldn't have any surging -- the bane of older pumps.
> >
> > Ken H.
>
>
> Ken H. said exactly what I was going to say so all I'll say is "x2".
>
> Ken B.
>
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] water pump [message #112979 is a reply to message #112973] |
Mon, 24 January 2011 17:50 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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True, there is flame in those household
appliances, but building codes specify
the minimum distance between them and
combustible materials. Any codes that are
applicable to RVs seem to be more honored
in the breach than the compliance!
I have been on the GMC list for about 10
months and I seem to remember several GMCs
that have burned due to fires started in
the refrigerator area over that time.
It does appear that sufficient ventilation
was either not designed into the coach or
some later owner created a problem after
original construction. There is also an
apparent severe drying of materials in
the vicinity of the propane fridges that
makes that easy to set ablaze some 30 +
years after construction. There also have
been some recalls of fridges due to fire hazard.
I have a propane/120V AC fridge in my
travel trailer, but the necessary mods
to it have been accomplished.
* * * * * * * * * * *
* 73 - Mac, K2GKK/5 *
* (Since 30 Nov 53) *
* Oklahoma City, OK *
* USAF, Ret (61-81) *
* * * * * * * * * * *
----------------------------------------
> From: emerystora@mac.com
> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 16:35:17 -0700
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] water pump
>
>
> On Jan 24, 2011, at 4:15 PM, D C *Mac* Macdonald wrote:
>
> >
> > There must be large differences in the performance and
> > power draw at 13V DC between various manufacturer's
> > AC/DC refrigerators. An 8 cu ft Vitrifrigo uses just
> > under 4 Amps at 13V DC when the compressor is running
> > which is about ~ 50 Watts. They use a Danfoss high
> > efficiency compressor and are HIGHLY insulated, two-door
> > fridge/freezer models that do an excellent job. They
> > are what I have on my boat. They aren't cheap, but
> > they do not have FLAME involved!
> >
>
>
> I am just curious as to what you use in your house for a furnace and water heater?
> Do they have a FLAME involved?
>
> I have been using a propane furnace and a propane refrigerator in all of the motorhomes that I have owned over the years since 1971 and have never had a problem with them.
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Santa Fe, NM
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| [GMCnet] Open Flames and Refrigerators. [message #113001 is a reply to message #112979] |
Mon, 24 January 2011 20:07 |
Bob Maxwell+
Messages: 75
Registered: November 2010
Location: Belén, New Mexico
Karma: 0
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Member |
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>>It does appear that sufficient ventilation was either not designed into
the coach or some later owner created a problem after original construction.
There is also an apparent severe drying of materials in the vicinity of the
propane fridges that makes that easy to set ablaze some 30 + years after
construction. There also have been some recalls of fridges due to fire
hazard.<<
The GMC was designed to have an all elec 120v refrigerator using the same
system as a household refrigerator with a 12v option thrown in. It didn't
need to be vented so it wasn't. And leveling wasn't a problem for the
refrigerator.
All the GMCers that put in a 3 way refrig using propane bring these issues
on thmselves and need several changes including fire supression. I've
friends that went to 120v Refrigerators in their 49' SOB's sitting at our
rvforum.net gathering out at Tyson Wash west that can boodook for over a
week because they have solar and deepcycle batteries and don’t have to usea
flam. Bye , bye Norcold and Dometic. I know space is limited. A bank of 6
or 8 deep cycle high amp batteries gives a lot of freedom --and yes, one
might have to add a pod for the displaced items.
Adiós. . .
Bob Maxwell†
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved
body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "...Thank
you Jesus ...what a ride!"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Open Flames and Refrigerators. [message #113005 is a reply to message #113001] |
Mon, 24 January 2011 21:08 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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G'day,
I'm confused!
The following is copied from X-7321A 1973 GMC Operating Manual Page 38:
GAS/ELECTRIC REFRIGERATOR
IMPORTANT: Before operating the refrigerator in
the gas-mode, see the carbon monoxide caution
at the beginning of this section.
Your Gas-Electric Refrigerator will operate
on L.P. Gas, or 12-volts DC. This results in a
wide range of operating modes. The unit is the
continuous absorption type, which operates by
the application of a small amount of heat. No
moving parts are employed. If the Motor Home
is connected to a 120-volts AC electrical source,
12-volts DC will be supplied to the refrigerator
through the power converter.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Bob Maxwell+
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 1:07 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Open Flames and Refrigerators.
The GMC was designed to have an all elec 120v refrigerator using the same
system as a household refrigerator with a 12v option thrown in. It didn't
need to be vented so it wasn't. And leveling wasn't a problem for the
refrigerator.
All the GMCers that put in a 3 way refrig using propane bring these issues
on thmselves and need several changes including fire supression. I've
friends that went to 120v Refrigerators in their 49' SOB's sitting at our
rvforum.net gathering out at Tyson Wash west that can boodook for over a
week because they have solar and deepcycle batteries and don’t have to usea
flam. Bye , bye Norcold and Dometic. I know space is limited. A bank of 6
or 8 deep cycle high amp batteries gives a lot of freedom --and yes, one
might have to add a pod for the displaced items.
Adiós. . .
Bob Maxwell†
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved
body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "...Thank
you Jesus ...what a ride!"
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Open Flames and Refrigerators. [message #113015 is a reply to message #113005] |
Mon, 24 January 2011 22:56 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Mon, 24 January 2011 21:08 |
G'day,
I'm confused!
The following is copied from X-7321A 1973 GMC Operating Manual Page 38:
GAS/ELECTRIC REFRIGERATOR
IMPORTANT: Before operating the refrigerator in
the gas-mode, see the carbon monoxide caution
at the beginning of this section.
Your Gas-Electric Refrigerator will operate
on L.P. Gas, or 12-volts DC. This results in a
wide range of operating modes. The unit is the
continuous absorption type, which operates by
the application of a small amount of heat. No
moving parts are employed. If the Motor Home
is connected to a 120-volts AC electrical source,
12-volts DC will be supplied to the refrigerator
through the power converter.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
|
My 1976 Palm Beach had a GM installed Norcold 3 way refrigerator. I had paperwork at one time indicated that it came that way from the factory.
It now has a Dometic 2 way (Gas/Electric). The Norcold finally quit a few years back.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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