Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Front end sag after one-ton install?
| Front end sag after one-ton install? [message #353672] |
Fri, 10 April 2020 15:35  |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769
Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Back from lurking. Wicked mistress still not having adventures, but more out of my schedule, and not any real needs. Anyway, a little something to ponder during the lockdown:
There is a thread on one of the facebook groups discussing a run of even stouter torsion bars to compensate for the wider track of the One ton Conversion.
Gentleman claims that with his new one ton install, and his stock pork chops maxed out, the front end of his 26' is still too low per spec. He has published calculations that show the stock bar, and even the Huber bars to be inadequate for the loading.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/15U-r7x6edQBsO9Rdexyhc5LSPa9v2jkp/view?fbclid=IwAR0B9XxlNmq2_iTxJF85cltXR2adz77mxeHfiMKgSHkB4CT3QPYS0yk_QCI
https://drive.google.com/file/d/15U-r7x6edQBsO9Rdexyhc5LSPa9v2jkp/view?fbclid=IwAR0B9XxlNmq2_iTxJF85cltXR2adz77mxeHfiMKgSHkB4CT3QPYS0yk_QCI
There was another person who volunteered they had the same sagging issue after installing a one ton on their 23.
The gentleman is preparing to do a run of even thicker bars - what a great country.
My question to the hive:
Has anyone heard of, or experienced, this issue with the one ton? I don't remember seeing any discussion, and a forum search doesn't show any either.
It seems to me that if the issue is the 4" increase in arm length, wouldn't this issue have come up with anyone who has put on wheel spacers? Those have been around forever. Not discounting the math (I am not qualified), just the suddenness, or selectivity, of the problem. Why not everyone? Why now?
Are stock bars finally getting to the age where they will just not tolerate this foolishness? If the stock bars are not up to the task, I would think this would have been an issue from the start. Not that the option to be able to purchase even thicker bars is a bad thing, just that my troubleshooting spideysense is telling me it would have to be something else wrong in the suspension, or torsion bar mounting.
Comments?
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
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| Re: Front end sag after one-ton install? [message #353680 is a reply to message #353672] |
Fri, 10 April 2020 16:39  |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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I've had the same problem I'm afraid. The heavier bars worked but a little more would have been nice. I ended up using some Revcon bars in my Diesel swap. Too bad they are so hard to come by. They do require a little redo of 'stuff'though. They are slightly shorter requiring the cross member to be shifted forward slightly and the flats aren't parallel so adjustable pork chops are needed.
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front end sag after one-ton install? [message #353683 is a reply to message #353672] |
Fri, 10 April 2020 18:34 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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When I installed Manny's 1-Ton front end, I had a similar problem. In my
case, the solution was simple: Manny had not adequately inspected,
repaired, and reinforced the socket in the Lower Control Arm (LCA) -- it
had "erupted", allowing the hex end of the bar to rotate slightly in the
LCA. On my 23', replacing the LCA with a good one fixed the problem. But,
before that process was completed, I'd learned a lot about the situation:
1. The OEM LCA's design is, IMHO, deficient in that it seats the load
bearing
hex end of the Torsion Bar (TB) in the center of a section of hex tubing.
At each end of that horizontal tube, there is a vertical member (the "fold"
of the A-frame) which would offer a lot of reinforcement of the tube it the
torsion bar hex was seated there.
2. Related to #1., preceding, is a deficient design of the torsion bar
itself: The hex on the end is too short, allowing it to sit, as described
above, in the weakest part of the socket. By extending the hex, the TB
itself can correct for the deficiency of the socket design -- a longer hex
will pick up the reinforced area. IIRC, my comments about this resulted in
the hex being extended on the later after-market TB's.
3. One of the things I was tempted to try before discovering the real
cause of my problem was the use of SuperMax adjustable pork chops. These
two-piece pork chops (sold by Applied GMC) have their hex socket area in a
moveable section which can itself be rotated to multiple positions,
allowing one to change the "angle" of the pork chop. That MAY be
sufficient to compensate for some slightly distorted TB's.
4. While considering the SuspensionMaxx pork chops, I talked by 'phone
with the designer/company owner (Larry Verbowski) about the situation. A
part of that discussion involved that the modern (past few years) of GM
trucks use TB's which are very similar to ours, but 4" shorter and with
slightly different hex sizes (1/4" larger, IIRC). There is a WIDE
assortment of TB diameters available in that design. Of his own volition,
Larry, overnight, designed and built a prototype of an adapter to allow the
current production torsion bars to be used for the GMC. Basically, that
adapter consist of a socket for the 1-1/2" hex with an attached 1-1/4" hex
bar to fit into our LCA. That hex bar is long enough to seat in the two
reinforced areas of the OEM socket, adding significant strength to the
whole arrangement. At the rear end of the TB, the adjustable
SuspensionMaxx pork chops in the 1-1/2" hex would be used. AFAIK, that
prototype was the only one ever made. Immediately after my last
conversation with Larry, I discovered the root cause of my problem and
Manny rectified it (and for subsequent production).
If I needed stronger torsion bars, I get back with SuspensionMaxx, or
otherwise devise the adapter and larger pork chop opening, and take
advantage of the widely available modern torsion bars. NOT have new
old-design bars produced (but if I did reproduce, I'd be sure to have the
longer front hexes included).
JWID,
Ken H.
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 4:36 PM Joe Weir via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Back from lurking. Wicked mistress still not having adventures, but more
> out of my schedule, and not any real needs. Anyway, a little something to
> ponder during the lockdown:
>
>
> There is a thread on one of the facebook groups discussing a run of even
> stouter torsion bars to compensate for the wider track of the One ton
> Conversion.
>
> Gentleman claims that with his new one ton install, and his stock pork
> chops maxed out, the front end of his 26' is still too low per spec. He
> has
> published calculations that show the stock bar, and even the Huber bars to
> be inadequate for the loading.
>
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/15U-r7x6edQBsO9Rdexyhc5LSPa9v2jkp/view?fbclid=IwAR0B9XxlNmq2_iTxJF85cltXR2adz77mxeHfiMKgSHkB4CT3QPYS0yk_QCI
>
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/15U-r7x6edQBsO9Rdexyhc5LSPa9v2jkp/view?fbclid=IwAR0B9XxlNmq2_iTxJF85cltXR2adz77mxeHfiMKgSHkB4CT3QPYS0yk_QCI
>
> There was another person who volunteered they had the same sagging issue
> after installing a one ton on their 23.
>
> The gentleman is preparing to do a run of even thicker bars - what a great
> country.
>
> My question to the hive:
>
> Has anyone heard of, or experienced, this issue with the one ton? I don't
> remember seeing any discussion, and a forum search doesn't show any
> either.
>
> It seems to me that if the issue is the 4" increase in arm length,
> wouldn't this issue have come up with anyone who has put on wheel spacers?
> Those
> have been around forever. Not discounting the math (I am not qualified),
> just the suddenness, or selectivity, of the problem. Why not everyone?
> Why now?
>
> Are stock bars finally getting to the age where they will just not
> tolerate this foolishness? If the stock bars are not up to the task, I
> would think
> this would have been an issue from the start. Not that the option to be
> able to purchase even thicker bars is a bad thing, just that my
> troubleshooting spideysense is telling me it would have to be something
> else wrong in the suspension, or torsion bar mounting.
>
> Comments?
>
>
>
>
> --
> 76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator,
> brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those
> Coachmen
> guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that
> beverage center...
> Columbia, SC.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Front end sag after one-ton install? [message #353684 is a reply to message #353672] |
Fri, 10 April 2020 19:13 |
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Richard RV
Messages: 631
Registered: July 2012
Location: Full-timer for 12 years, ...
Karma: -17
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Senior Member |
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Joe,
There's been talk of this for some time.
https://gmc.mybirdfeeder.net/GMCforum/index.php?t=msg&goto=240981&rid=2604
Subsequent to my posting in that thread I installed Huber's beefed up torsion bars and they definitely helped with the overly compliant ride. I went back to the standard length adjusting bolts, but they're bottomed out and the ride height is a little lower than I'd like.
Ken Henderson's torsion bar extender/adapter seems like a no-brainer and should be produced.
Anyone up for putting together an order and seeing what sort of group pricing we can get from SuspensionMaxx or maybe Sway-Away?
Richard
'77 Birchaven TZE...777;
'76 Palm Beach under construction;
‘76 Edgemont waiting its turn
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front end sag after one-ton install? [message #353685 is a reply to message #353683] |
Fri, 10 April 2020 19:40 |
JohnS
Messages: 126
Registered: December 2014
Location: Vacaville, CA
Karma: -2
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Senior Member |
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When we put the one ton on the Stretch, I was unable to get it high enough, although am not sure how the ride height was before, as the one ton was put on before I drove it the first time. We put the later design Huber Bars (with the longer Hex) on but the heavy stretch still wouldn't come up. Manny had new pork chops made to correct that problem and I think they would have worked...EXCEPT, he had them made about 1/8 inch thicker (a good idea, I think) so as a result they wouldn't fit in the crossmember that Buskirk had beefed up by welding some plate to the inside of the U-channel! So I got the adjustable porkchops and they have been fine.
I called SuspensionMaxx and talked to Larry. He seemed very interested and knowledgeable about GMCs, asking about the modifications and weight of the coach. As we talked, I could hear the clink of the pieces of the anchors as he worked out the configuration needed. The settings he gave me worked fine and the adjust bolts are near the middle of the range.
Sounds to me that SuspensionMaxx's idea about an adapter to use more readily available bars might be a route to investigate further.
John S.
John Shutzbaugh, Vacaville, CA, ncserv@aol.com;
78 Buskirk stretch, "What were we thinking?"
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| Re: Front end sag after one-ton install? [message #353686 is a reply to message #353684] |
Fri, 10 April 2020 19:48 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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Senior Member |
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I tried to get this accomplished a couple of years ago. They were going to send an adapter but never followed through. I tried a number of calls but finally gave up. I did find the pieces to home brew an adapter but wasn't sure of the strength so just let the effort die. Might try to reinvigorate my efforts if I get too bored.
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front end sag after one-ton install? [message #353687 is a reply to message #353683] |
Fri, 10 April 2020 20:01 |
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Richard RV
Messages: 631
Registered: July 2012
Location: Full-timer for 12 years, ...
Karma: -17
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
Did SuspensionMaxx send you the prototype adapters, and if so, do you have pictures of them? Curious how big they are.
Richard
'77 Birchaven TZE...777;
'76 Palm Beach under construction;
‘76 Edgemont waiting its turn
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| Re: Front end sag after one-ton install? [message #353688 is a reply to message #353684] |
Fri, 10 April 2020 21:30 |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769
Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Thanks for all the input. Very interesting.
I have not monitored the boards that closely, and it appears my google-fu is weak..I missed that altogether.
So, it sounds like there are two issues:
Control arm socket/TB length fatigue and one ton/TB fixes
Insufficient load adjustment on the stock adjusters (pork chops)
So if the TB's are the extended length, and the sockets have been reinforced, then the issue will not be with the LCA.
However with that done. a super pork chop will need to be installed to set correct ride height.
So ...
A. does the extra adjustment on the pork chop exceed the capacity of the TB, or just use more of its untapped potential?
B. Is the issue that the TB is now too soft a spring rate, and does the extended pork chop fix that?
Seems like this would have been an issue with front wheel spacers, Was it just not noticed before?
I have a one ton kit and a set of extended TB's that were in the bullpen waiting for a break in the action to install. Didn't do the math, but figured 20% stiffer sounded like it would do the trick. Just trying to stock the correct parts to make sure I can finish what I start, when I start.
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
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| Re: Front end sag after one-ton install? [message #353689 is a reply to message #353688] |
Fri, 10 April 2020 22:13 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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Senior Member |
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Twisting the bar further won't correct the issue. you'll need the 19% bigger bars. The stock bars just don't have the capacity, especially after 40+ years of service. If you have the later version bars they should have the extended ends and 'should' work. Most of the one ton LCA's had the sockets strapped/strengthened and normally are OK (although I managed to blow one out) but I have quite a bit more weight up front than most. The adjustable PC's probably won't be necessary 'but' still may be needed. It seems there were possibly 3 different pork chops out there and it will depend on your particular coach combination.
Good luck, Hal
Joe Weir wrote on Fri, 10 April 2020 20:30Thanks for all the input. Very interesting.
I have not monitored the boards that closely, and it appears my google-fu is weak..I missed that altogether.
So, it sounds like there are two issues:
Control arm socket/TB length fatigue and one ton/TB fixes
Insufficient load adjustment on the stock adjusters (pork chops)
So if the TB's are the extended length, and the sockets have been reinforced, then the issue will not be with the LCA.
However with that done. a super pork chop will need to be installed to set correct ride height.
So ...
A. does the extra adjustment on the pork chop exceed the capacity of the TB, or just use more of its untapped potential?
B. Is the issue that the TB is now too soft a spring rate, and does the extended pork chop fix that?
Seems like this would have been an issue with front wheel spacers, Was it just not noticed before?
I have a one ton kit and a set of extended TB's that were in the bullpen waiting for a break in the action to install. Didn't do the math, but figured 20% stiffer sounded like it would do the trick. Just trying to stock the correct parts to make sure I can finish what I start, when I start.
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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| Re: Front end sag after one-ton install? [message #353690 is a reply to message #353688] |
Fri, 10 April 2020 23:08 |
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Richard RV
Messages: 631
Registered: July 2012
Location: Full-timer for 12 years, ...
Karma: -17
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Senior Member |
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Joe Weir wrote on Fri, 10 April 2020 19:30Thanks for all the input. Very interesting.
B. Is the issue that the TB is now too soft a spring rate, and does the extended pork chop fix that?
Seems like this would have been an issue with front wheel spacers, Was it just not noticed before?
Noticed, yes, but apparently not objectionable to all. I know people that didn't like the tendency of the drive wheels to walk sideways when climbing a steepish curve and took off the spacers. I've experienced the same with the one ton. Others either don't climb steepish curves or the sensation doesn't bother them.
I've asked numerous people over the years how many GMCs they've driven, not just around the block but put it through its paces, and the number is frequently one. If you haven't driven a number of coaches I don't think you can know what normal is and how they're supposed to drive. And people get used to what they're driving and believe that's normal.
Alex Ferrara, GMC Steering Whisperer, told me a story about him asking a _long _ time GMC owner and guru if he could look at the guy's steering while at a GMCMI Convention.
No, no it's fine! No need.
Humor me.
...okay, take a look.
Your steering box is out 30°, let me fix it.
Thanks, but no need, I've been driving it for 20 years and it drives fine.
Humor me.
...sigh, okay, go ahead.
{15 minutes later} Okay, take it for a drive.
{returns 10 minutes later with a huge smile} Oh my god! All this time I thought that that was how it was supposed to drive!! Thank you!
Richard
'77 Birchaven TZE...777;
'76 Palm Beach under construction;
‘76 Edgemont waiting its turn
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| Re: Front end sag after one-ton install? [message #353693 is a reply to message #353690] |
Sat, 11 April 2020 09:15 |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769
Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Ok, now that is funny, and Makes perfect sense.
I have the extended new bars. Nothing to do but try them.
Thanks
Richard RV wrote on Fri, 10 April 2020 23:08Joe Weir wrote on Fri, 10 April 2020 19:30Thanks for all the input. Very interesting.
B. Is the issue that the TB is now too soft a spring rate, and does the extended pork chop fix that?
Seems like this would have been an issue with front wheel spacers, Was it just not noticed before?
Noticed, yes, but apparently not objectionable to all. I know people that didn't like the tendency of the drive wheels to walk sideways when climbing a steepish curve and took off the spacers. I've experienced the same with the one ton. Others either don't climb steepish curves or the sensation doesn't bother them.
I've asked numerous people over the years how many GMCs they've driven, not just around the block but put it through its paces, and the number is frequently one. If you haven't driven a number of coaches I don't think you can know what normal is and how they're supposed to drive. And people get used to what they're driving and believe that's normal.
Alex Ferrara, GMC Steering Whisperer, told me a story about him asking a _long _ time GMC owner and guru if he could look at the guy's steering while at a GMCMI Convention.
No, no it's fine! No need.
Humor me.
...okay, take a look.
Your steering box is out 30°, let me fix it.
Thanks, but no need, I've been driving it for 20 years and it drives fine.
Humor me.
...sigh, okay, go ahead.
{15 minutes later} Okay, take it for a drive.
{returns 10 minutes later with a huge smile} Oh my god! All this time I thought that that was how it was supposed to drive!! Thank you!
Richard
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
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| Re: Front end sag after one-ton install? [message #353694 is a reply to message #353689] |
Sat, 11 April 2020 09:19 |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769
Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Thanks Hal,
I have the bigger bars, will crawl under and see what the pork chops are. Couldn't hurt to have new, I guess.
Hal StClair wrote on Fri, 10 April 2020 22:13Twisting the bar further won't correct the issue. you'll need the 19% bigger bars. The stock bars just don't have the capacity, especially after 40+ years of service. If you have the later version bars they should have the extended ends and 'should' work. Most of the one ton LCA's had the sockets strapped/strengthened and normally are OK (although I managed to blow one out) but I have quite a bit more weight up front than most. The adjustable PC's probably won't be necessary 'but' still may be needed. It seems there were possibly 3 different pork chops out there and it will depend on your particular coach combination.
Good luck, Hal
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front end sag after one-ton install? [message #353696 is a reply to message #353694] |
Sat, 11 April 2020 09:38 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 7:20 AM Joe Weir via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Thanks Hal,
>
> I have the bigger bars, will crawl under and see what the pork chops are.
> Couldn't hurt to have new, I guess.
>
> We have been supplying the beefy bars and can’t say that it is the
> greatest thing.
need to see why it started to sag and figure that out.
I do agree with Hal that twisting the tb more is not good, but it has
worked on several coaches we had in our dhop.
We do also supply the adjustable pork chops and get good review from owners.
The socket in the control. Arm is a major concern, you need to remove the
arm or the bar and feel the indent that is starting, as it will pop
eventually.
We sell lot of beefed up arms .😷
>
>
>
>
>
> Hal StClair wrote on Fri, 10 April 2020 22:13
>> Twisting the bar further won't correct the issue. you'll need the 19%
> bigger bars. The stock bars just don't have the capacity, especially after
>> 40+ years of service. If you have the later version bars they should
> have the extended ends and 'should' work. Most of the one ton LCA's had the
>> sockets strapped/strengthened and normally are OK (although I managed to
> blow one out) but I have quite a bit more weight up front than most. The
>> adjustable PC's probably won't be necessary 'but' still may be needed.
> It seems there were possibly 3 different pork chops out there and it will
>> depend on your particular coach combination.
>> Good luck, Hal
>
>
> --
> 76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator,
> brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those
> Coachmen
> guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that
> beverage center...
> Columbia, SC.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
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jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front end sag after one-ton install? [message #353697 is a reply to message #353683] |
Sat, 11 April 2020 09:59 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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On Sat, Apr 11, 2020, 7:59 AM James Hupy wrote:
> Peter Huber in California, and I in Oregon partnered up (kinda) on the
> latest version of the GMC torsion bars. They can be identified by the fact
> that one end has a longer "hexagon shape" than the other end does. The
> spring steel that they are manufactured from differs in strength from the
> original GMC bars by 19% approx.
> The manufacturer wanted a minimum order to make it worthwhile for
> them to even make them. That is one of the reasons Peter and I collaborated
> on them.
> Another was to allow folks from outside California to order them from me
> instead of Peter, thus avoiding some California sales taxes.
> As with most new suspension parts, like coil springs, leaf springs,
> torsion bars, etc. some settling with initial use is NORMAL. That is why
> the pork chops are adjustable.
> Hal St. Clair has a different problem. The all-up weight of his
> diesel conversion overcame the maximum point of elasticity even the new
> heavier duty bars. In his case, larger diameter were needed.
> Kinda like flexing a rubber band. Stay within their elastic range and
> you can stretch them repeatedly for a long time. But stretch them a little
> too far, and you exceed the strength of materials involved.
> Spring steel behaves much the same way.
> All that I am saying is "Some settling will occur upon break-in, and
> this is NORMAL. Expect that you will have to re-adjust ride height after
> all that new stuff breaks in.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Sat, Apr 11, 2020, 7:20 AM Joe Weir via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Hal,
>>
>> I have the bigger bars, will crawl under and see what the pork chops
>> are. Couldn't hurt to have new, I guess.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hal StClair wrote on Fri, 10 April 2020 22:13
>>> Twisting the bar further won't correct the issue. you'll need the 19%
>> bigger bars. The stock bars just don't have the capacity, especially after
>>> 40+ years of service. If you have the later version bars they should
>> have the extended ends and 'should' work. Most of the one ton LCA's had the
>>> sockets strapped/strengthened and normally are OK (although I managed
>> to blow one out) but I have quite a bit more weight up front than most. The
>>> adjustable PC's probably won't be necessary 'but' still may be needed.
>> It seems there were possibly 3 different pork chops out there and it will
>>> depend on your particular coach combination.
>>> Good luck, Hal
>>
>>
>> --
>> 76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator,
>> brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those
>> Coachmen
>> guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that
>> beverage center...
>> Columbia, SC.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front end sag after one-ton install? [message #353698 is a reply to message #353694] |
Sat, 11 April 2020 09:59 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Peter Huber in California, and I in Oregon partnered up (kinda) on the
latest version of the GMC torsion bars. They can be identified by the fact
that one end has a longer "hexagon shape" than the other end does. The
spring steel that they are manufactured from differs in strength from the
original GMC bars by 19% approx.
The manufacturer wanted a minimum order to make it worthwhile for them
to even make them. That is one of the reasons Peter and I collaborated on
them.
Another was to allow folks from outside California to order them from me
instead of Peter, thus avoiding some California sales taxes.
As with most new suspension parts, like coil springs, leaf springs,
torsion bars, etc. some settling with initial use is NORMAL. That is why
the pork chops are adjustable.
Hal St. Clair has a different problem. The all-up weight of his diesel
conversion overcame the maximum point of elasticity even the new heavier
duty bars. In his case, larger diameter were needed.
Kinda like flexing a rubber band. Stay within their elastic range and
you can stretch them repeatedly for a long time. But stretch them a little
too far, and you exceed the strength of materials involved.
Spring steel behaves much the same way.
All that I am saying is "Some settling will occur upon break-in, and
this is NORMAL. Expect that you will have to re-adjust ride height after
all that new stuff breaks in.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020, 7:20 AM Joe Weir via Gmclist
wrote:
> Thanks Hal,
>
> I have the bigger bars, will crawl under and see what the pork chops are.
> Couldn't hurt to have new, I guess.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hal StClair wrote on Fri, 10 April 2020 22:13
>> Twisting the bar further won't correct the issue. you'll need the 19%
> bigger bars. The stock bars just don't have the capacity, especially after
>> 40+ years of service. If you have the later version bars they should
> have the extended ends and 'should' work. Most of the one ton LCA's had the
>> sockets strapped/strengthened and normally are OK (although I managed to
> blow one out) but I have quite a bit more weight up front than most. The
>> adjustable PC's probably won't be necessary 'but' still may be needed.
> It seems there were possibly 3 different pork chops out there and it will
>> depend on your particular coach combination.
>> Good luck, Hal
>
>
> --
> 76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator,
> brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those
> Coachmen
> guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that
> beverage center...
> Columbia, SC.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Front end sag after one-ton install? [message #353699 is a reply to message #353696] |
Sat, 11 April 2020 09:53 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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There are easy way to do all this without taking everything apart.
We seldom touch the pork chop to remove the tb.
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 7:38 AM Jim Kanomata wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 7:20 AM Joe Weir via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Hal,
>>
>> I have the bigger bars, will crawl under and see what the pork chops
>> are. Couldn't hurt to have new, I guess.
>>
>> We have been supplying the beefy bars and can’t say that it is the
>> greatest thing.
>
> need to see why it started to sag and figure that out.
> I do agree with Hal that twisting the tb more is not good, but it has
> worked on several coaches we had in our dhop.
> We do also supply the adjustable pork chops and get good review from
> owners.
> The socket in the control. Arm is a major concern, you need to remove the
> arm or the bar and feel the indent that is starting, as it will pop
> eventually.
> We sell lot of beefed up arms .😷
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hal StClair wrote on Fri, 10 April 2020 22:13
>>> Twisting the bar further won't correct the issue. you'll need the 19%
>> bigger bars. The stock bars just don't have the capacity, especially after
>>> 40+ years of service. If you have the later version bars they should
>> have the extended ends and 'should' work. Most of the one ton LCA's had the
>>> sockets strapped/strengthened and normally are OK (although I managed
>> to blow one out) but I have quite a bit more weight up front than most. The
>>> adjustable PC's probably won't be necessary 'but' still may be needed.
>> It seems there were possibly 3 different pork chops out there and it will
>>> depend on your particular coach combination.
>>> Good luck, Hal
>>
>>
>> --
>> 76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator,
>> brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those
>> Coachmen
>> guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that
>> beverage center...
>> Columbia, SC.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.gmcrvparts.com
> 1-800-752-7502
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: Front end sag after one-ton install? [message #353701 is a reply to message #353690] |
Sat, 11 April 2020 12:00 |
 |
74_Coach
Messages: 71
Registered: July 2019
Location: Arroyo Grande, CA
Karma: 0
|
Member |
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[quote title=Richard RV wrote on Fri, 10 April 2020 21:08]Joe Weir wrote on Fri, 10 April 2020 19:30
Alex Ferrara, GMC Steering Whisperer, told me a story about him asking a _long _ time GMC owner and guru if he could look at the guy's steering while at a GMCMI Convention.
No, no it's fine! No need.
Humor me.
...okay, take a look.
Your steering box is out 30°, let me fix it.
Thanks, but no need, I've been driving it for 20 years and it drives fine.
Humor me.
...sigh, okay, go ahead.
{15 minutes later} Okay, take it for a drive.
{returns 10 minutes later with a huge smile} Oh my god! All this time I thought that that was how it was supposed to drive!! Thank you!
Richard
I could use that GMC Steering Whisperer out here in CA. I had the front-end rebuilt late last year and steering is just as bad now as before it was rebuilt. I am going to have the shop that rebuilt the front end look at the Steering Box Highpoint to ensure the box and u-joint are properly aligned.
Ed Clerkin | 1974 GMC Canyon Lands 26’
Central Coast CA
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