Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Really bad news from Dale & Bea Frahm
| Really bad news from Dale & Bea Frahm [message #330699] |
Sat, 07 April 2018 19:53  |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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If you have not heard. (I just did and just got off the phone....)
Their coach had a bad engine fire in Dothan AL.
They were north bound and had a towed on a dolly when it went up.
(Sad pictures are available, I can't look any more.)
They (3 Dale, Bea and Buddy) are safe and at home.
Dale has decided he will not rebuild. So he may have lots of spares to part with, but you will have to talk to him.
He did mention that the coach still has 7 HotShots, so if someone is in striking range is interested he should call Dale.
This is not news I wanted to broadcast, but it is something that many of us will want to know even if it is bad news.
With a heavy heart,
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Really bad news from Dale & Bea Frahm [message #330704 is a reply to message #330699] |
Sat, 07 April 2018 20:44  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Photos where?
Ken H.
On Apr 7, 2018 5:54 PM, "Matt Colie" wrote:
> If you have not heard. (I just did and just got off the phone....)
> Their coach had a bad engine fire in Dothan AL.
> They were north bound and had a towed on a dolly when it went up.
> (Sad pictures are available, I can't look any more.)
> They (3 Dale, Bea and Buddy) are safe and at home.
>
> Dale has decided he will not rebuild. So he may have lots of spares to
> part with, but you will have to talk to him.
>
> He did mention that the coach still has 7 HotShots, so if someone is in
> striking range is interested he should call Dale.
>
> This is not news I wanted to broadcast, but it is something that many of
> us will want to know even if it is bad news.
>
> With a heavy heart,
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Really bad news from Dale & Bea Frahm [message #330709 is a reply to message #330706] |
Sat, 07 April 2018 23:29 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Wow,
I really feel bad for them. That was a nice coach. At least they got out OK.
It sure looks like a engine fire. I really would like to know caused it. Oil lines? Gasoline? There was a a lot of flames coming out of there.
It sure makes one want an automatic deployment non-freezing AR-AFFF fire extinguisher in the engine compartment. I wish someone would offer that.
I had a small fire a little over a week ago in the hangar. A small handheld propane/butane torch I was using went up in flames. I managed to get it out the front door and on to the grass outside. It had flames about 5 ft tall coming out of it. The airport showed up and extinguished it with Purple K. One squirt of Purple K put it out. With all of that fire I was afraid it would explode so I stayed back and let them extinguish it.
After it cooled down I removed the torch from the tank and found that the tank was OK. It was something wrong in the torch. I threw it away and bought a new one. I have never seen anything like it before. I'm surprised how much flame you can get out of a little handheld propane tank with torch.
The same goes for a GMC engine fire. I fought one of those once and won, but it still cost just under $10,000 to repair the damage. It does not take much fuel to have a big fire and a total loss.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Really bad news from Dale & Bea Frahm [message #330714 is a reply to message #330713] |
Sun, 08 April 2018 14:00 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Really hate to guess on this one, but, from the pics, it looks like an on
board fire suppression system could have been of great value there. I have
a halon system in my Royale, but, a foam one should be equally effective.
But, if the fuel pumps were feeding the scene after they escaped the coach,
and the temps under the hatch were high enough for re-ignition, then if the
occupants were able to escape uninjured, that is what we all want. Coaches
are expendable, gmc'ers are not.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
On Sun, Apr 8, 2018, 10:15 AM Pete Smith wrote:
> Doesn't Jim Bounds do just such an extinguishing system?
>
>
> It just got higher up my list of priorities.
>
>
>
> Pete
> --
> Cary, NC
>
> 1978 Center Kitchen Royale.
>
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| Re: Really bad news from Dale & Bea Frahm [message #330726 is a reply to message #330699] |
Mon, 09 April 2018 09:26 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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I have a single bottle AIFF with a spray head in the engine compartment. My concern with Halon is it's heavier that air and will fall out the bottom of the engine bay, so you have to release enough over enough time to fully snuff the fire. It is interesting stuff though - at about a 5% concentration, fire just doesn't work any more. If you ever get a chance watch a demo of it. We put systems in studios where code required a suppression system and we didn't want water sprinklers which will destroy very expensive equipment.
I will add another call for anything but dry chemical extinguishers. A friend wrote off a six month old ~~ million dollar television transmitter that had an electrical fire in the feed which was extinguished with dry chemical. He got something like ten cents a pound for the scrap-.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Really bad news from Dale & Bea Frahm [message #330747 is a reply to message #330726] |
Mon, 09 April 2018 12:49 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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I have fixed two coaches that were partially burned in engine fires, and
extinguished with dry chemical extinguishers. Every electrical thing under
the engine bay is ruined by the stuff. The primary purpose of the dry
chemical extinguishers is OCCUPANT SAFETY. Gives the people time to escape
the coach.
Years after doing the repairs to the coaches, you will still
encounter corrosion from the dry chemicals. Almost better to let them burn
to the lug nuts. C0-2 or Halon will stop the fire right now. And cool stuff
down below the flash point of most materials used in the wiring and hoses
etc. But, if an ignition source is still present, and gasoline is involved,
re-ignition is highly probable. Fire departments usually use bolt cutters
on battery cables to prevent melted wires from doing just that.
Kinda like the damage a police swat team will do to a residence when
going after a person holed up inside. Broken windows, door jambs, burned
couches, carpets, pepper spray, blood spatter, are all part of the clean up
that the property owners are sometimes left with.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 7:26 AM, Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> I have a single bottle AIFF with a spray head in the engine compartment.
> My concern with Halon is it's heavier that air and will fall out the bottom
> of the engine bay, so you have to release enough over enough time to fully
> snuff the fire. It is interesting stuff though - at about a 5%
> concentration, fire just doesn't work any more. If you ever get a chance
> watch a demo of it. We put systems in studios where code required a
> suppression system and we didn't want water sprinklers which will destroy
> very expensive equipment.
> I will add another call for anything but dry chemical extinguishers. A
> friend wrote off a six month old ~~ million dollar television transmitter
> that
> had an electrical fire in the feed which was extinguished with dry
> chemical. He got something like ten cents a pound for the scrap-.
>
> --johnny
> --
> 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> "I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
> in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
>
>
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> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: Really bad news from Dale & Bea Frahm [message #330773 is a reply to message #330750] |
Tue, 10 April 2018 01:52 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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dshafer wrote on Mon, 09 April 2018 13:34I just ordered this from Amazon. I use Amazon Smile to help out my favorite charity a little.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FZMNUFK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
12 may be overkill but I'll probably not think that way if I ever need just one of them. I'm looking into bigger ones too.
Dave
I have two of those inside of my coach for small fires. They are AFFF. They will freeze at 32F so remove them if parking your coach at below freezing interior temps. I also have one in every vehicle that I own. I do not know how well they work on an engine fire. They might not be big enough. They work extremely well on gasoline fires.
At $10.00 each they are great to have around. I have 3 different brands here. If I remember correctly all were made by the same company in Jacksonville, FL. It is much cheaper than having to recharge a large one after use. Use it and thrown it away.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Really bad news from Dale & Bea Frahm [message #330776 is a reply to message #330773] |
Tue, 10 April 2018 06:48 |
TR 1
Messages: 348
Registered: August 2015
Location: DFW
Karma: -7
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Senior Member |
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Ken Burton wrote on Tue, 10 April 2018 01:52
At $10.00 each they are great to have around. I have 3 different brands here. If I remember correctly all were made by the same company in Jacksonville, FL. It is much cheaper than having to recharge a large one after use. Use it and thrown it away.
If you recharge them yourself, a 2.5 gallon foam extinguisher only costs about $40 to recharge. You just need to buy the recharge concentrate and have access to compressed nitrogen or you can even use compressed air per the Amerex instructions, and need to have a recharge adapter.
Below is an excellent deal on a 2.5 gallon foam extinguisher with AFFF foam concentrate. Amazon was more than double this, and did not include the charge adapter.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMEREX-Model-250-2-5-Gallon-Foam-Fire-Extinguisher-NEW-with-02141-Fill-Adapter/112791432695?hash=item1a42e4adf7:g:eK4AAOSwax5 Y1E~m
Yes, it's big, but I don't think you'd be complaining about the size if you ever needed to use it.
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
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| Re: Really bad news from Dale & Bea Frahm [message #330779 is a reply to message #330699] |
Tue, 10 April 2018 07:55 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Speak with Jim Bounds and FireFight Systems. He can provide a system or systems for every part of your coach. They have foam that doesn't freeze.
--johnny
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Really bad news from Dale & Bea Frahm [message #330788 is a reply to message #330779] |
Tue, 10 April 2018 09:22 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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You had better check with him again. I have asked for low freezing temperature AR-AFFF and got nowhere. All I could get out of him was we use a proprietary designer foam. No specifications available. It is a secret. In the following years he has never stated that he was providing a low temp AR-AFFF foam which would be a good selling point for RVs.
I have a 5 gallon container of Ansul concentrate. When mixed at 3% it is AFFF. When mixed at 6% you get AR-AFFF. That still does not get you freeze protection. You can get down to +14 F by using 20% ethylene glycol. Anything higher than 20% mixture starts to turn flammable. There are other things than can be used to get the freeze temps below -20 F.
I talked to a local owner of a fire equipment manufacturer trying to get him to make these to our spec. He is one of the board members at our airport. He looked into it and said the expense of starting a production line was prohibitive for the limited number he could distribute for sale to the RV crowd. His distribution system does not address that segment of the market. He employs about 500 people manufacturing products for fire trucks and buildings like nozzels, hoses, pumps, valves, mixing systems, etc. They hold several patents on some of their products.
He suggested finding someone that would buy the parts, which are already available, and assembling them 50 or 100 at a time. He suggested that I do it and he would source the parts for me. I declined. Too much work with all of the certifications, insurance packaging, etc. required. I retired years ago and am not looking to get into another small business.
I also talked to the fire chief at a local large steel mill. They have their own fire and police departments. They re-charge their own foam extinguishers with AFFF rated at -25. Many of them are posted outside in all seasons. -20m happens here one or two nights per year. He said he would do a couple for me on the side if I ever needed it. I do not have any empty ones around that need recharging.
We did empty a 2.5 gallon one on an airplane about a year ago. It is stored inside a heated hangar so we just recharged it ourselves with AR-AFFF (6%) and water. We have nitrogen available so that is what we pressurized it with. It is not in commercial use so we did not have to re-certify it.
Yes, the opportunity is there but no one, including me, is interested in doing it. Probably not a large enough market.
As a side note our local on field fire department, owned by the township, services both the airport and off airport fires. The trucks are stored on the airport full of water inside so they will not freeze. The buildings are heated. One truck is an off road version that articulates in the middle with HUGE tires. They carry AFFF concentrate. They mix on the fly as needed. When they are dispatched they can use plain water, or they can mix on the fly at 3% for aircraft (ethanol fuel is illegal in aircraft), or 6% for motor vehicle fires. They use 6% on ground vehicles because there is so much E-10 Ethanol diluted fuel around these days.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Really bad news from Dale & Bea Frahm [message #330814 is a reply to message #330811] |
Wed, 11 April 2018 01:12 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I bought a fire port to put in the step but never installed it. I decided that I did not to fight a fire through the port while being inside the coach.
I removed my wheel liners after my engine fire to do all of the engine fire repair work. I never reinstalled them. The hardest thing I had while fighting the fire was getting to the top of the engine. With the wheel liners removed this is not a problem. A knife switch under the passenger hood on the engine battery cable was a life saver. It allowed me to kill all electric while fighting the fire.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Really bad news from Dale & Bea Frahm [message #330868 is a reply to message #330814] |
Thu, 12 April 2018 20:10 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
If you look at Dale's photos you'll see that our battery switches, and my
big aqueous foam pull cable are in locations engulfed in flames. :-(
Ken H.
On Apr 11, 2018 1:13 AM, "Ken Burton" wrote:
> I bought a fire port to put in the step but never installed it. I decided
> that I did not to fight a fire through the port while being inside the
> coach.
>
> I removed my wheel liners after my engine fire to do all of the engine
> fire repair work. I never reinstalled them. The hardest thing I had while
> fighting the fire was getting to the top of the engine. With the wheel
> liners removed this is not a problem. A knife switch under the passenger
> hood
> on the engine battery cable was a life saver. It allowed me to kill all
> electric while fighting the fire.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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