Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » OFF TOPIC- NOT GMC - Long read (Did you know it takes 15 days to go from Maryland to Central Florida?)
| OFF TOPIC- NOT GMC - Long read [message #328654] |
Sun, 28 January 2018 06:11  |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Many of you know what we moved to the dark side and purchased a diesel pusher a few years back. Until recently it has been trouble free....until recently. This is a 39' Fleetwood Discovery with a Freightliner chassis, air suspension, leveling jacks, etc.
Just before Christmas we drove the coach up to Maryland to spend the holidays with my Son and the Grandkids. We park in their driveway where I have installed a 50A plug. About half way there the coach started running rough and losing power...classic symptoms of a clogged fuel filter on diesel engines. We limped into our campground where I changed the fuel filter. All was good except for a slightly increased exhaust noise that I attributed to a hole in the 15-year-old exhaust pipe. We drove on to Maryland with no issues.
The weather was miserable and we ran our propane furnaces to keep the coach warm as well as keep the water bay and tanks from freezing. We had planned to stay until the kids went back to school on January second. We woke up on December 27th to 11 degrees with the promise of snow and sleet on Saturday and the kitchen faucet not working We decided to call it and head south to Florida where we were scheduled to attend a couple rallys and spend some time with some friends.
Immediately upon departure I noticed a considerable increase in exhaust noise, like an exhaust donut had failed. I did not worry about it too much and rolled on. About a half hour into the trip, the rear view camera died. A few minutes later I noticed my lube oil pump controller was off. We pulled over and I verified the lube oil pump was not running but didn't see a problem that I could easily fix on the side of the road in 15 degree weather so I started the toad to keep from toasting the transmission. When I attempted to restart the coach, it would not crank. This was new. I tried it a couple times and it cranked, started, and ran fine so we rolled south to Richmond where we spent the night. The toad did great just idling in neutral behind the coach and used very little fuel.
When other people have reported exhaust leaks it usually heats up the electric bay behind the left rear wheel. I kept an eye on it and while it was definitely warmer it wasn't HOT. The frigid temps probably helped keep it from extreme overheating
During the night, we noticed we were drooping to one side. The next morning, I discovered my right rear jack was leaking hydraulic fluid. As we departed, I noticed my air pressure was slow to pump up. At idle it would drop to just below the low air buzzer level but at high idle or driving speed it would maintain 100 psi or so. We rolled on. Temperature was about 20.
That evening we pulled into a small campground in St. George SC. We had a 30 amp site with water but the water was turned off because of the temperature. It was a level spot so I put down the three jacks that worked and extended the slides.
The next morning, January 29, it would not crank. Turn the key and nothing other than some clicks. I slide under the coach and look around. The pad surface was golfball sized sharp limestone rock. Such fun. Immediately I spotted the exhaust problem. On our coach, the CAT (3126E) exhaust manifold connects to a flexible stainless exhaust section via a band clamp. The stainless section was completely, COMPLETELY, out of the band clamp. The engine exhaust had been coming straight out of the engine and blowing toward the front of the coach. In it's path was some 'stuff' including a 4 wire cable for my lube oil pump with all the insulation burned off, the cable for our newly installed rear view camera with all the insulation burned off, the hydraulic line to the left rear jack, and various air lines and wiring looms. While the wire looms showed some heat damage, the wiring inside looked fine.
I fixed the exhaust leak by reinserting the stainless back into the band clamp and tightening it. However none of this explained the no crank condition. I called Freightliner asking where the starter solenoid was. "On the frame by the transmission" was the response. I looked and looked but could not find it. Nor did anyone on the Discovery forum know where it was. Freightliner sent me the drawings of the start circuit and a remote starter relay is clearly shown. I could not find it. I should mention at this point that I'm a pretty fair shadetree mechanic with good troubleshooting skills but know little about diesels. So it's now mid day Friday before the three day New Year weekend. We're stuck in a campground under trees so the satellite TV doesn't work and we're out of range of over the air except for a couple of channels which come in about 80% of the time and 'tile' the rest. I start the process to request roadside assistance. After 3 attempts I finally get through to Good Sam. They inform me they will gladly tow me to a 'CERTIFIED' repair facility for Freightliner and CAT or send out a mobile tech but not both. I opt for towing but inform them that we'll wait till after the holiday because there wasn't any future in having the coach sitting in an repair lot when it was closed for 3 days.
The next day, I called a mobile tech the park owner recommended and a nice young guy came out about 3:30. He opened the basement door where the ECU is and asked me to crank it. It fired right up. He said he had just tapped on a couple boxes. I started and stopped it several times. Everything good and I paid him and he left. We decided to leave Sunday to finish our drive to Florida and hopefully get to warmer temperatures. It was about 25 degrees.
The next day, we got up early and prepared to leave. Before we got too far into the process, my wife suggested I verify the coach would start. I bumped the starter and it cranked but when I turned the key off, it kept cranking. As soon as I realized what was happening, I turned the key back on thinking it would be better for the starter to crank against a running engine than burn out trying to crank the diesel. I ran around with my hair on fire for 5+ minutes and finally decided I'd have to remove the battery cable to kill the engine and starter. I had turned the engine off several times but it continued to crank. Finally, one last time before pulling the battery cables, I turned off the key and ....silence.
After a few minutes allowing my heart rate to slow down, I got the correct tools to remove the battery terminal ready and turned the key to start the engine...nothing. No crank. *&$@@)&
So we sit until Tuesday when the world reopened. It took 3 hours to get Good Sam on the line. They told me they would tow me to a Peterbuilt shop nearby but if they could not fix it, they would tow me somewhere else. I wanted them to tow me 200 miles to the Freightliner factory in Gaffney SC but it would have cost me $1000+ so I decided to see if the local shop could do it. Then she told me she would get a wrecker and call me back. A couple hours later, she called to tell me that she was unable to find a wrecker and I'd have to call back in a couple hours and start over. I told her that was absolutely not acceptable and asked for a supervisor. Back on hold for 10 minutes and she came back with a wrecker but he was out on another call and would not be able to get to me until after 5pm. We scheduled for the next morning (January 3) first thing.
The next morning I called the shop to find that it was expected to snow and most of the crew had not, and would not make it in. Caught the wrecker company before they left and told them to hold off until the shop was able to take us. We got about 4" of snow. Charleston SC got 6" and it just shut the whole area down. They are totally unprepared for snow and ice. We sat. It eventually warmed up enough we could get water and I borrowed a portable 'honey wagon' and was able to dump the gray tank.
THREE days later we make it to the shop. They jumped right on it and immediately determined the starter was bad. The ordered it for next day delivery. In the meantime, they repaired the leaking air line. We determined it was caused by heat. They also removed the hydraulic jack hose and I had a new hose built at a local NAPA which they installed. We moved to a local motel where we were able to at least watch the College National Championship football game.
The next day we checked out of the motel and I was at the shop when the new starter came in. One glance and I said, "That's not the right starter". "Yeah it is" said the tech as he slid under the coach. A couple minutes later he slid out and said, "I don't think that's the right starter." The head tech came over, I told him "That's not the right starter". "Yeah it is" he said as he slid under the coach. Thirty seconds later he slid out, "I don't think that's the right starter." The exact same thing happened with the service manager and then the parts manager. Much head scratching ensued while they tried to figure out why the supposedly 'right' starter was obviously the 'wrong' starter.
I called Freightliner RV support and they gave me a part number and told me I could order it from them. When I told the parts guy this, he said they could not order direct because they were not a Freightliner shop (as Good Sam had said they were). He called the Savanna Freightliner shop he used to work for and had them order it from the Memphis freightliner warehouse for next day delivery. Problem solved I thought and we went back to the hotel and checked in again. At least the TV worked.
Next day the starter was supposed to arrive by FedEx by 2pm. At 2 PM I went to the parts guy and he was on the phone getting a tracking number. 10 minutes later I see him hang his head and say 'OK'. Turns out that Freightliner never shipped it. This time, they were going to call Memphis, have someone put their hands on it, and call him back with a tracking number. Back to the motel....again.
The NEXT day the starter arrived about 2. It was installed immediately and everything checked out. Everything worked. We drove back to the campground to spend the night. This time I got a concrete pad and was able to replace the backup camera cable and get that working. The next day we drove on down to Webster Florida. 15 days from Maryland to Central Florida! The coach ran great although I was concerned about the root cause of the no crank condition. The starter was definitely bad and a sticking bendix could have caused the runaway condition that killed it. But so could a bad remote starter relay (which I still had not found) or even a bad ignition switch. Positive thoughts positive thoughts positive thoughts.
Three days later I turned the key and....no crank.))*$#$&**$@X!
This time, I'm on a nice level concrete pad, have some friends nearby, it's about 60 degrees, and my jacks work so I can get under the coach easily. I'm going to find that *&^&%$$ relay.
I call Freightliner again (4th time) and again heard it was on one side of the transmission or the other not too far from the starter. The tech also confirmed my thinking that it had to be the remote starter solenoid or the starter switch. None of the other things that could cause a no crank such as the neutral safety relay could have caused the starter runaway. He seemed VERY knowledgeable both of issue and the location of the relay.
So I slid under the coach with my headlight on and looked for 20 minutes....all around the engine, transmission and all the way to the rear axle. Nothing. Finally, I told my friend I was going to pull the hatch in the bedroom in the hope it was visible from there. Bed came up, hatch came off, didn't see a thing. ((*&##$^&U
On my coach, there is not a lot of room by the hatch, as I was twisting around trying to look toward the front, I overbalanced and literally fell into the hatch. When I caught myself by putting my hand on the valve cover, my head was actually below the floor. Guess what I was looking at? Yep, that blasted remote starter relay.
It was indeed mounted beside the frame near the starter BUT it was ABOVE the frame and totally hidden from view from below by a bundle of wiring looms about 6" in diameter. It is COMPLETELY invisible from below. I assume that Fleetwood moved it.
Called the nearest Freightliner store and they had one in stock and I made a two hour round trip to get it and picked up a new ignition switch while I was at it. By the time I got back it was dark and the next day I still had the no crank condition so I tested the voltages. 12V on the incoming hot leg....check...everything else cold. Turn the key to crank position...12V on hot leg...12V on trigger leg...NOTHING on the output leg to the starter. This is the textbook test for a bad relay, which is what the starter solenoid is. My wife was holding the key on and about the time I finished the voltage test on the output leg the coach cranked. I still had the meter on the output lug and saw 12V. It is definitely a bad solenoid. Period full stop as my British friends say.
Changing the solenoid was easy although it is really tight for tall folks on my coach due to the layout.
I'm confident this was the problem. It's been 2 weeks now with no issues and many starts. I still don't know, and probably never will, if the relay problem was caused by the exhaust leak. It's on the other side of the engine but there was a lot of heat. Some people have actually had their floor catch fire from diesel exhaust leaks. It's possible that the relay and the heat damage were two separate events, although I tend to think the relay issue was also caused by excessive heat. Regardless, I believe the root cause for all the heat problems was the rough running caused by the clogged fuel filter. I can see how the shuddering engine could have created exhaust impulses that pushed the pipe out of the clamp. At least that makes sense to me.
Regardless, my number 1 takeaway of all this is "DON"T DRIVE A DIESEL WITH AN EXHAUST LEAK"!
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
[Updated on: Sun, 28 January 2018 06:14] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] OFF TOPIC- NOT GMC [message #328655 is a reply to message #328654] |
Sun, 28 January 2018 07:14  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Kerry,
NOW I know why I haven't heard from you for a long time! Sorry to hear of
all the agony. Before falling into the engine compartment to find the
relay, I'd probably have redirected the exhaust to take down the whole
darned Fleetwood! :-)
Stop by on your way home (if it'll make it this far).
Ken H.
On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 7:12 AM, Kerry Pinkerton
wrote:
> Many of you know what we moved to the dark side and purchased a diesel
> pusher a few years back. Until recently it has been trouble free....until
> recently. This is a 39' Fleetwood Discovery with a Freightliner chassis,
> air suspension, leveling jacks, etc.
> ...
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
|
|
|
|
| Re: OFF TOPIC- NOT GMC - Long read [message #328656 is a reply to message #328654] |
Sun, 28 January 2018 07:48 |
 |
RF_Burns
Messages: 2276
Registered: June 2008
Location: S. Ontario, Canada
Karma: 3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Kerry,
Most solenoids have their coils wrapped on a plastic bobbin. The metal plunger slides through the center hole of bobbin to move the contacts. I've needed to repair a couple over the years and found the metal plunger was sticking in the bobbin tube. They were easily fixed by grinding down the diameter of the metal plunger.
I have had to do this twice on my Kubota BX1500 diesel tractor. It has a solenoid that pulls in momentarily to shut off the engine fuel. It would randomly not start, then I noticed I did not hear the "Click" of that solenoid DE-energising. I opened the hood and could see it was still in the Shut-OFF position. A well placed screwdriver pulled out the plunger. After a few more times, a call to the Kubota Dealer found the replacement price was $275.00. So I pulled it apart and ground down the plunger diameter a bit. I've done it twice since, so the plastic bobbin must be shrinking. The coil and bobbin show no signs of ever being hot.
I can imagine though years of engine heat and the plastic off-gassing can make the plastic bobbin shrink. The plunger may stick before it makes contact, or it may stick in the ON position. You may want to install a large master OFF switch on the batteries to be prepared for the next time the solenoid goes bad.
Your starter likely went bad from the continuous cranking incident.
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] OFF TOPIC- NOT GMC [message #328658 is a reply to message #328655] |
Sun, 28 January 2018 10:05 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Kerry, it is amazing what "upfitters" do to chassis's that they purchased.
You give a whole new meaning to the term, "Down the hatch." (Grin)
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Jan 28, 2018 5:15 AM, "Ken Henderson" wrote:
> Kerry,
>
> NOW I know why I haven't heard from you for a long time! Sorry to hear of
> all the agony. Before falling into the engine compartment to find the
> relay, I'd probably have redirected the exhaust to take down the whole
> darned Fleetwood! :-)
>
> Stop by on your way home (if it'll make it this far).
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 7:12 AM, Kerry Pinkerton
> wrote:
>
>> Many of you know what we moved to the dark side and purchased a diesel
>> pusher a few years back. Until recently it has been trouble
> free....until
>> recently. This is a 39' Fleetwood Discovery with a Freightliner chassis,
>> air suspension, leveling jacks, etc.
>> ...
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: OFF TOPIC- NOT GMC - Long read [message #328665 is a reply to message #328654] |
Sun, 28 January 2018 20:04 |
skip2
Messages: 544
Registered: September 2011
Location: Winter Haven,FL (center o...
Karma: 3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Mr. Pinkertons adventure and an earlier post by Bob Donahue reminded me about a situation which happened to my aunt and uncle's Bluebird Wanderlodge and them.. They were lucky enough to be able to retire before 50 and were traveling seeing the country when they had a blowout. They didn't realize that somehow when the tire blew it got hold of a gas line in the fender well, sound familiar, it didn't break it but it somehow pulled on the regulator and the furnace and stove pilots were running super rich and they almost succumbed to CO poisoning, my uncle was a long distance trucker so he knew he should not have been getting sleepy at the wheel and stopped. Not long after that she started showing signs of the dormant Parkinsons gene kicking in, runs in my mother's family, The doctor traced it back to the CO poisoning, said a major life trauma or major stress is what usually kicks it in. My grandfather lost an 18 year old son and his soon started. Just amazing how something totally unrelated, like a blowout, to something like Parkinsons can be the "root" cause. Like Mr Pinkerton's dirty fuel filter causing the exhaust to shake apart and causing all those other, what you would think unrelated, maladies. Just glad they didn't have any signs of CO poisoning. Just a little story that can make you go "hmm?" about exhaust leaks.
Skip Hartline
74 Canyon Lands, FiTech,
3.7 FD LSD, Manny Tranny,
Springfield Distributor,
2001 Chevy Tracker Ragtop Towd
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] OFF TOPIC- NOT GMC [message #328667 is a reply to message #328666] |
Sun, 28 January 2018 20:58 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Yeah, good policy! We had one on the way to St. Augustine. The R. exhaust
pipe isn't aligned as it should be and I've been meaning to try to fix it,
but its only obvious hazard was the muffler too close to the ground. As we
passed a car hauler on I10, I commented on how terrible loud his exhaust
was. As we pulled ahead of him, the racket didn't diminish so I got off at
the exit 1/2 mile down the road. A vacant used car lot made a convenient
spot for me to look under and see what I'd expected: The SS band clamp on
the exhaust pipe -- muffler joint was slid up the exhaust pipe, which was
aimed beneath the muffler. There was a parts store across the street. The
girl at the counter stated pessimistically that the diesel shop 1/2 mile
away MIGHT help.
The shop, at the end of a back road was big, clean, and almost idle except
for 2 girls in the office and 3 mechanics laying beneath the engine of a
big truck (with two lifts big enough to hold the biggest rigs empty on the
other side of the shop). One of the girls went out and talked to the
elder of the 3 mechanics and was told me to pull the coach into one of the
4 empty bays.
As soon as I disconnected the toad and pulled into the bay, the youngest of
the 3 mechanics pulled a huge tool chest-on-chest from the opposite side of
the shop. I didn't have the heart to tell him the only wrench he'd need
was a 9/16" deep socket and handle.
After about 1/2 hour of jacking, grunting, and getting a new band clamp
from the parts room, he told me to crank 'er up. It was quiet once again.
$81.52 was a bargain!!! Even though I've still got to correct the root
problem of exhaust pipe mis-configuration -- when I can use my right hand
again.
Oh yeah, we're speculating here whether Carolyn will ever agree to get in
another motorhome -- even an '06 Discovery! :-)
Ain't RV'in' fun?
Ken H.
On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Kerry Pinkerton
wrote:
> ...
>
Actually Ken, One of the reasons we were going to Florida was to trade
> coaches. I swapped our '03 for cousin Jim's 06.
>
> Given Bob Dunnahugh's and Skip's experiences, perhaps the takeaway should
> be "DON'T DRIVE WITH EXHAUST LEAKS!"
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
|
|
|
|
| Re: OFF TOPIC- NOT GMC - Long read [message #328695 is a reply to message #328654] |
Mon, 29 January 2018 19:51 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Kerry sorry for your experience there is a good reason we hate to trust mechanics we don't know no mater how excessive their labor rates are. From what I have recently found out it is common for the flex line that connects the exhaust pipe to the muffler to separate and if you don't stop and some how connect it again the excessive heat will cause all kinds of damage . The flex connection on my country coach has separated at the exhaust pipe and I secured it with a large hose clamp. So far it is holding I need to get a large band clamp to hold it. A friend had his come apart on his American Tradition and he has had to repair his hydronic lines for the jacks that got damaged from the heat. There is a lot more to these diesels then the simple /1970 erior GMC. It definitely takes a lot of time to transition from maintaining a GMC to maintaining a diesel.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
|
|
|
|
| Re: OFF TOPIC- NOT GMC - Long read [message #328704 is a reply to message #328654] |
Tue, 30 January 2018 07:42 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
|
Senior Member |
|
|
When we fitted indoor gensets - Caterpillar and Cummins - we used flex sections which had flanges on each end. One end bolted to the muffler, one to the pipe, both of which had mating flanges. Worst that could happen - never did - was you'd lose a donut. Is there room to put a flanged system on the coach?
It also points out, if you go RVing, regardless the age and stage and price of your coach, you're gonna have to tinker with it from time to time. I've learned. If a strange noise occurs, even once, stop and figure out what it was.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Tue Apr 23 13:34:30 CDT 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.00969 seconds
|
GMCforum
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
