| Re: [GMCnet] GMCNet Portional Valve (update) [message #328682] |
Mon, 29 January 2018 10:21  |
THOMAS R WHITTON
Messages: 47
Registered: September 2016
Karma: -1
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Update on proportional valve replacement.
This is an update on replacing the proportional valve. I sprayed "witches brew" penetrating oil (50% acetone, 50% ATF) for four days. On the fifth day I used a pencil torch on the line nuts to the valve then, while still hot and pushing the nut counter clockwise with a line wrench, I repeatedly hit the wrench where it was overlaying the nut with a hammer. The line slowly came loose from the nut with each hammer blow. The procedure worked on three of the five lines but didn't work on two. (The first two I worked on and went to school on.) Unfortunately, I cork screwed the two lines that run to the master cylinder and will be replacing them. These lines run through several tight spaces that I have made tighter by adding accessories over the years. I could remove everything to run new brake lines but that would just make the job infinitely harder.
I got on Google for brake line lessons. I'm impressed with the ease of working with NICOPP tubing (nickel-copper). I watched the factory man and then a couple of real life mechanics. NICOPP apparently has more than adequate PSI capacity, is easy to bend, flare and will not rust. Do any of you have experience with this tubing? What's the downside, if any?
Here's one of my Google lessons: https://oppositelock.kinja.com/the-truth-about-copper-brake-lines-1818499200
I look forward to your thoughts.
Tom Whitton26 foot updated GMCPaducah, Ky
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMCNet Portional Valve (update) [message #328683 is a reply to message #328682] |
Mon, 29 January 2018 10:54  |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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I was trying to get you to heatit and soak it hot every day. Not just the last day.
If you had enough room, cut off the end of the two lines and flare them in place again.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMCNet Portional Valve (update) [message #328685 is a reply to message #328682] |
Mon, 29 January 2018 11:04 |
77Royale
Messages: 461
Registered: June 2014
Location: Mid Michigan
Karma: 6
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Ive used the Nicopp lines on my Coach, after a talk with Dave Lenzi. I got a better quality flaring tool and a tool to chamfer the ends. The Chamfering is critical to get the double flare correct. A little practice and it was not too bad. The Nicopp bends very easy and is easy to work with. Some of the stock lengths of line Advance Auto had did not have the correct nuts, so I got the nuts in a different pack and then installed those where needed.
The lines have been on for 3 years and no issues with leaking or rusting. The nuts themselves are a different metal from the lines, but I do not see any issues with the lines rusting to the nut, which is the problem most of the time.
77 Royale, Rear Dry Bath. 403, 3.55 Final Drive, Lenzi goodies, Patterson carb and dizzy.
Mid Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMCNet Portional Valve (update) [message #328687 is a reply to message #328682] |
Mon, 29 January 2018 13:22 |
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wally
Messages: 643
Registered: August 2004
Location: Omaha Nebraska
Karma: 5
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THOMAS R WHITTON wrote on Mon, 29 January 2018 10:21
Update on proportional valve replacement.
This is an update on replacing the proportional valve. I sprayed "witches brew" penetrating oil (50% acetone, 50% ATF) for four days. On the fifth day I used a pencil torch on the line nuts to the valve then, while still hot and pushing the nut counter clockwise with a line wrench, I repeatedly hit the wrench where it was overlaying the nut with a hammer. The line slowly came loose from the nut with each hammer blow. The procedure worked on three of the five lines but didn't work on two. (The first two I worked on and went to school on.) Unfortunately, I cork screwed the two lines that run to the master cylinder and will be replacing them. These lines run through several tight spaces that I have made tighter by adding accessories over the years. I could remove everything to run new brake lines but that would just make the job infinitely harder.
I got on Google for brake line lessons. I'm impressed with the ease of working with NICOPP tubing (nickel-copper). I watched the factory man and then a couple of real life mechanics. NICOPP apparently has more than adequate PSI capacity, is easy to bend, flare and will not rust. Do any of you have experience with this tubing? What's the downside, if any?
Here's one of my Google lessons: https://oppositelock.kinja.com/the-truth-about-copper-brake-lines-1818499200
I look forward to your thoughts.
Tom Whitton26 foot updated GMCPaducah, Ky
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Nickel copper brake line is good stuff and easy to work with. Makes smooth easy double flares compared to steel. No rust no worry. I have a roll of 3/16 and 1/4 from Amazon.
Wally Anderson
Omaha NE
75 Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMCNet Portional Valve (update) [message #328688 is a reply to message #328682] |
Mon, 29 January 2018 14:04 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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On Manny's advice, I got standard lengths from Advance for my transmission cooler lines. I'd do the same for brake lines - they bend fairly easily with a fifteen buck Harbor Freight bender. If I have to make brake lines to replace unruly ones (i'm following this thread closely, the valve is my next task) I'll cut the premade to the proper length and then borrow the flare tool from Advance - in the store. Nobody seems to ave success with the cheeapo flaring tool.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMCNet Portional Valve (update) [message #328690 is a reply to message #328688] |
Mon, 29 January 2018 16:07 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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No one seems to agree with me but I've given up on double flares. I only use them if I have to.
I now do everything with 37 degree flares.
Why?
The flare is dead simple to make, I have a cheap flaring too that works everytime
they are reusable ( double flares are not supposed to be reused )
Ive never had a leak
the only downside is the fittings are slightly more expensive.
________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Johnny Bridges via Gmclist
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2018 2:04:35 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Cc: Johnny Bridges
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] GMCNet Portional Valve (update)
On Manny's advice, I got standard lengths from Advance for my transmission cooler lines. I'd do the same for brake lines - they bend fairly easily
with a fifteen buck Harbor Freight bender. If I have to make brake lines to replace unruly ones (i'm following this thread closely, the valve is my
next task) I'll cut the premade to the proper length and then borrow the flare tool from Advance - in the store. Nobody seems to ave success with the
cheeapo flaring tool.
--johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
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Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMCNet Portional Valve (update) [message #328705 is a reply to message #328696] |
Tue, 30 January 2018 08:55 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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Yes there are times when it's hard or impossible to use AN fittings, so then I don't or will use an adapter or use a pre flared section.
As far as the DOT spec, that doesn't worry me much.
________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Matt Colie
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2018 8:41:27 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] GMCNet Portional Valve (update)
Keith V wrote on Mon, 29 January 2018 17:07
> No one seems to agree with me but I've given up on double flares. I only use them if I have to.
>
> I now do everything with 37 degree flares.
>
> Why?
>
> The flare is dead simple to make, I have a cheap flaring too that works everytime
>
> they are reusable ( double flares are not supposed to be reused )
>
> Ive never had a leak
>
>
> the only downside is the fittings are slightly more expensive.
Kieth,
There is small problem with 37°(AN) flares in automotive hardware. There is a DOT spec that specifies 45° flares. Then there is the issue that
much of the required hardware is simply not available in AN. I do still have the AN flare tool that I bought when I worked on power plants. It was
expensive then. The real problem with double flares (pointed up in a ASTM study years ago) is that most that fail were not done right. This is
sometimes the fault of the technician and sometimes the result of the poor tooling available. I believe that your attention to detail can make up for
a less than great tool set.
Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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