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Re: [GMCnet] Engine Removal [message #328509 is a reply to message #328507] Mon, 22 January 2018 16:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
Senior Member
No. But, there are about 6 bell housing bolts, 5 final drive bolts, (3 on
one side, 2 on the other) 2 front motor mount bolts, and 3 torque converter
bolts, and 3 oil filter adapter bolts. 2 radiator hoses, 2 or 3 heater
hoses. 8 water pump bolts, 10 exhaust manifold bolts, various vacuum hoses,
fuel lines, sender wires, alternator wires, carb linkages, 1 distributor
hold down, 4 carb bolts. That just about does it.

On Jan 22, 2018 1:48 PM, "Johnny Bridges via Gmclist" <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:

> Can you get the engine out the top without removing the trans/final drive?
>
> johnny
>
> --
> 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> "I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
> in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
>
>
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>
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Re: [GMCnet] Engine Removal [message #328511 is a reply to message #328499] Mon, 22 January 2018 18:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard Denney is currently offline  Richard Denney   United States
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 9
Senior Member
Carl,

Out the bottom is the best way--you can remove the engine, tranny, and
final drive as a unit. If you don't pull the water pump, you just about
have to turn it on end. Look for the photos KenH has posted of doing it in
his shop, where he has a lowered work area under the front of his coach. If
you pull the water pump, you'll have a bit more space for the removal, but
it means you have to install the water pump after reinstalling the engine.
I'd rather install the water pump before run-in and then just leave it. The
gantry you have to assemble over the hatch will need two lift points, one
for the front of the engine and one for the back. That way you can finely
adjust the tilt as you go.

You should be able to get by with just loosening the rear motor mount, so
that it can tilt back out of the way (which works better for later
coaches--early coaches have less space there). The idea behind loosening
them is so that you don't drop the bolts into the crossmember. But I still
had to fish those bolts out of the crossmember.

You can remove the AC compressor and hold it up under the cockpit floor
using a strap. The mounting frame for the AC unit, which is designed to
hold the landing gear of a 747, will also be in the way. That bracket, and
to an even greater extent the power steering pump brackets are my reasons
to explain why factory design isn't always to be revered. Both are horror
stories, and the PS pump bracket even moreso. Take as many pictures of it
as you can before you take it apart. Pictures, pictures, pictures. We used
the picture of the distributor at its running angle.

Bagging the bolts is a good idea, that I wish I'd done. Bag the bolts for
the PS pump and the AC brackets in separate bags, too.

When you separate the final drive from the transmission, grab the input
spline on the final drive and wiggle it in and out. Axial play is supposed
to be about 0.008"--which you should not be able to feel. I predict you
will fill a definite play back and forth. If you do, replace or rebuild the
final drive. Manny tells me that a worn final drive will damage the
transmission. Mine had the same number of miles as yours. My coach is
light. Hint, hint. We couldn't find a replacement final drive that didn't
have as much play as mine did when we replaced the engine and transmission
last April, so I replaced it when I did the one-ton front end in August.
Manny ordered me to drive gently (and then wanted me to follow him as he
punched through Atlanta on the I75 HOV lane at 70mph, ha!). I had him
include a 3.21 in the crate with the front end.

To R&R the engine, transmission and final drive as one unit, you may need
more than 32 inches of clearance, but maybe not.

Rick "who did the project at KenH's--certainly one of the most ideal places
for a project like that, not least because of the expertise that comes with
it" Denney

On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 12:08 PM, Carl Stouffer wrote:

> Thanks for all the tips and advice. Since my front
> suspension/steering/brakes are all in good shape, I will not be going
> through all the extra steps
> to remove the front sub-frame, although I can see the advantages of doing
> it that way.
>
> My plan, at this point, is to remove the engine/transmission/final drive
> as a unit. Jim Decheine has done it this way as has (I believe) Ken
> Henderson. Since my problem started with the transmission losing third
> gear, I need to do the tranny as well. The drivetrain has 105,000 miles on
> it
> and was going to be due for an overhaul soon anyway.
>



--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
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Re: [GMCnet] Engine Removal [message #328515 is a reply to message #328511] Mon, 22 January 2018 19:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kosier is currently offline  Kosier   United States
Messages: 834
Registered: February 2008
Karma: 1
Senior Member
Rick,

If you ever work on a Cadillac motor, you'll throw rocks at an Oldsmobile.
LOL

Gary Kosier
77PB w/500Cad
Newark, Ohio

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Richard Denney"
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 7:30 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Engine Removal

> Carl,
>
> Out the bottom is the best way--you can remove the engine, tranny, and
> final drive as a unit. If you don't pull the water pump, you just about
> have to turn it on end. Look for the photos KenH has posted of doing it in
> his shop, where he has a lowered work area under the front of his coach.
> If
> you pull the water pump, you'll have a bit more space for the removal, but
> it means you have to install the water pump after reinstalling the engine.
> I'd rather install the water pump before run-in and then just leave it.
> The
> gantry you have to assemble over the hatch will need two lift points, one
> for the front of the engine and one for the back. That way you can finely
> adjust the tilt as you go.
>
> You should be able to get by with just loosening the rear motor mount, so
> that it can tilt back out of the way (which works better for later
> coaches--early coaches have less space there). The idea behind loosening
> them is so that you don't drop the bolts into the crossmember. But I still
> had to fish those bolts out of the crossmember.
>
> You can remove the AC compressor and hold it up under the cockpit floor
> using a strap. The mounting frame for the AC unit, which is designed to
> hold the landing gear of a 747, will also be in the way. That bracket, and
> to an even greater extent the power steering pump brackets are my reasons
> to explain why factory design isn't always to be revered. Both are horror
> stories, and the PS pump bracket even moreso. Take as many pictures of it
> as you can before you take it apart. Pictures, pictures, pictures. We used
> the picture of the distributor at its running angle.
>
> Bagging the bolts is a good idea, that I wish I'd done. Bag the bolts for
> the PS pump and the AC brackets in separate bags, too.
>
> When you separate the final drive from the transmission, grab the input
> spline on the final drive and wiggle it in and out. Axial play is supposed
> to be about 0.008"--which you should not be able to feel. I predict you
> will fill a definite play back and forth. If you do, replace or rebuild
> the
> final drive. Manny tells me that a worn final drive will damage the
> transmission. Mine had the same number of miles as yours. My coach is
> light. Hint, hint. We couldn't find a replacement final drive that didn't
> have as much play as mine did when we replaced the engine and transmission
> last April, so I replaced it when I did the one-ton front end in August.
> Manny ordered me to drive gently (and then wanted me to follow him as he
> punched through Atlanta on the I75 HOV lane at 70mph, ha!). I had him
> include a 3.21 in the crate with the front end.
>
> To R&R the engine, transmission and final drive as one unit, you may need
> more than 32 inches of clearance, but maybe not.
>
> Rick "who did the project at KenH's--certainly one of the most ideal
> places
> for a project like that, not least because of the expertise that comes
> with
> it" Denney
>
> On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 12:08 PM, Carl Stouffer
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for all the tips and advice. Since my front
>> suspension/steering/brakes are all in good shape, I will not be going
>> through all the extra steps
>> to remove the front sub-frame, although I can see the advantages of doing
>> it that way.
>>
>> My plan, at this point, is to remove the engine/transmission/final drive
>> as a unit. Jim Decheine has done it this way as has (I believe) Ken
>> Henderson. Since my problem started with the transmission losing third
>> gear, I need to do the tranny as well. The drivetrain has 105,000 miles
>> on
>> it
>> and was going to be due for an overhaul soon anyway.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> '73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
> Northern Virginia
> Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org


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Re: [GMCnet] Engine Removal [message #328517 is a reply to message #328511] Mon, 22 January 2018 19:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Henderson is currently offline  Ken Henderson   United States
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
Senior Member
Carl,

Pay 'tention to Rick's advice. He saved me from having to type about the
same comments 1-handed.

Here's the link to my bottom-up installation album:

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/bottom-up-engine-installation/p10678-engine-hoist-2c-pull-engine-out-the-bottom.html

Just a few comments (since I've done some variation of R&R 6-7+ times):

1. I don't like to remove the rear mounting bolts from the cross member --
they're too easy to drop & too difficult to re-align. The mounting plate
can't be removed nor installed with the engine installed anyway, so just
loosen the 2 cross member bolts, remove the 2 passenger- and 1 driver-side
bolts, and tilt it to the rear.

2. IMHO, re-installing the 1 upper rear mounting bolt on the driver's side
is the worst part of the whole R&R -- unless you do as I've done: With the
engine out, lift the carpet on the lower step riser, then drill a hole in
the riser in line with that hole in the bracket. Use a small hole saw to
enlarge the hole to accept a 9/16" socket. Now you can R&R that single
bolt from inside VERY easily. A simple sheet metal plate and caulk will
seal the hole when you're done. Manny uses an air ratchet to R&R it from
underneath in "no time"; it always takes me at least 30 minutes.

3. Don't try to use a carb flange lift plate as shown in my photos. The
engine's got to be tilted at least 45*, and that's about the maximum that
plate will allow with NO weight on the rear hoist. A chain between two
intake manifold bolts toward the front of the engine allows better control
-- and minimizes the "twisting" of the engine shown in my photos to clear
the front cross member.

4. If you possibly can, use at least one chain hoist, at the rear, for the
installation. When you're positioning the rear of the engine, a
come-a-long's movement steps are ALWAYS either "just too little" or "just
too much". The chain hoist's infinitesimal adjustability is greatly
appreciated.

5. The "log chain" shown & mentioned in one of the photos is something I
wouldn't get beneath the engine without. Secure it around the two chassis
side rails and under the HEAVY drivetrain, without getting under there. A
stand or shoring instead will be a PITA to work around.

6. Jim Bounds got very upset with me about claiming I put that drivetrain
in in an hour -- seems folks then wanted to know why he charges for 30
hours. What's got to be remembered is that my 30-60 minutes is to raise it
from the ground -- Not to get it ready, and certainly NOT including
connecting ANYTHING! You're just getting started when it's in the hole.
:-)

Ken H.


On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 7:30 PM, Richard Denney wrote:

> Carl,
>
> Out the bottom is the best way--you can remove the engine, tranny, and
> final drive as a unit. If you don't pull the water pump, you just about
> have to turn it on end. Look for the photos KenH has posted of doing it in
> his shop, where he has a lowered work area under the front of his coach. If
> ​...
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
Re: [GMCnet] Engine Removal [message #328519 is a reply to message #328511] Mon, 22 January 2018 19:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Carl S. is currently offline  Carl S.   United States
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
Senior Member

Thanks Rick,

I will check the final drive. It is a Jim K 3.70 LSD that I put in in Jan. of 11. I hope it's okay. I am planning to remove the water pump for the engine removal and will probably leave it off until the engine is back in. I did that when I did the timing chain about a year into ownership, I'm guessing I can do it again (I do have a two piece fan shroud). I've had the AC compressor mount off a time or two as well. You're right, that thing is crazy stout.

Lots of great info here. Thanks.


Carl Stouffer '75 ex Palm Beach Tucson, AZ. Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
Re: Engine Removal [message #328702 is a reply to message #328507] Mon, 29 January 2018 23:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dservati1 is currently offline  dservati1   
Messages: 109
Registered: December 2013
Location: Western New York -Rochest...
Karma: 1
Senior Member
Johnny -Yes, removing engine from the top is my preference, done it 3 times now. We built a gantry with the help of a local GMCer two posts one over the engine hatch and one down the hallway near the door. I feel it's safer out the top for my situation. Dave.

'78 Palm Beach. car nut new to RV'ing 26 ft. 403 rebuilt in 2018, rebuilt tranny in 2014, Dave Lenzi knuckles & hubs, yada yada yada on ION wheels,Green Brady Bunch stock David Martin on Facebook
Re: Engine Removal [message #328703 is a reply to message #328702] Tue, 30 January 2018 00:22 Go to previous message
dservati1 is currently offline  dservati1   
Messages: 109
Registered: December 2013
Location: Western New York -Rochest...
Karma: 1
Senior Member
Here is a link to the gantry we built http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p64505-engine-r-26amp-3br.html

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p64505-engine-r-26amp-3br.html


'78 Palm Beach. car nut new to RV'ing 26 ft. 403 rebuilt in 2018, rebuilt tranny in 2014, Dave Lenzi knuckles & hubs, yada yada yada on ION wheels,Green Brady Bunch stock David Martin on Facebook
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