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Re: [GMCnet] Hitch mounted Motorcycle - Scooter carriers [message #325974 is a reply to message #325961] Mon, 13 November 2017 18:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Henderson is currently offline  Ken Henderson   United States
Messages: 7282
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 40
Senior Member
A few years back we had a GMCer, now deceased (Walt Taylor), who regularly
towed a 10,000# trailer. He towed it loaded with Mazda race cars, parts,
tools, and a golf cart, all over the country -- and frequently rebuilt the
GMC's transmission. I doubt that Manny ever built one for him; he MIGHT do
better -- IF he was willing. :-)

Ken H.


On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 7:52 AM, John Phillips
wrote:

> Will the GMC tow 15000 lbs with a tongue weight of 1000 lbs?
> I have been looking for the max tow weight and tongue weight, so far
> http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/730
> is the best documentation I have found. Is the final drive strong enough to
> tow that much weight without shortening its life significantly?
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
Re: [GMCnet] Hitch mounted Motorcycle - Scooter carriers [message #325975 is a reply to message #325973] Mon, 13 November 2017 18:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
emerystora is currently offline  emerystora   United States
Messages: 4175
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 9
Senior Member
Bob Dunahugh also pulls a 10000 trailer around the country hauling his Corvairs, tools, etc.

Emery Stora

> On Nov 13, 2017, at 5:42 PM, Jim Kanomata wrote:
>
> Should you elect to mount it in the back, we supply the HD Square receiver
> hitch that can handle.
> Were also working on a front mount with the Square receiver.
> Rick Flanagan will need to assist us on load calculations.
> I'm begining to see that the front mount has some limitation on weight
> capacity.
> Like any kit, we learned from Blue Ox, the towing people that you never
> want to weld onto a frame, just bolt it.
>
>
>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 5:32 PM, Mike wrote:
>>
>> powerjon wrote on Sun, 12 November 2017 09:23
>>> Mike,
>>> Find one that fit the Vespa weight and size and in the price range that
>> you can afford. Don't go cheap, mid range is probably best. Not an issue
>>> as for weight for the carrying the Vespa. I know a several that have
>> mounted the Honda Elite model 250. Depends totally on the type of hitch
>>> mounted on the rear of the GMC. Receiver type is the only one that I
>> would use, bumper bolt on is a NOT for usage.
>>>
>>> JR Wright
>>> GMC Great Laker MHC
>>> GMC Eastern States Charter Member
>>> GMCGL Tech Editor
>>> GMCMI
>>> 78 GMC Buskirk 30' Stretch
>>> 1975 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
>>> Michigan
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Nov 12, 2017, at 9:00 AM, Mike wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello All, i'm looking for suggestions on the best way to carry
>> along a 250 pound Vespa motor scooter?
>>>>
>>>> I am looking at hitch - mounted carriers for this application, do you
>> have any experience with a specific model or what would you recommend?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your opinions,
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>>
>> Thanks JR, I agree the hitch mount is the way to go.The Vespa weighs in at
>> ~265 lbs, going with a carrier that will handle 400 to 500 lbs should be
>> more than sufficient to support the scooter.
>>
>> Thanks again,
>> Regards,
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> jimk-AT-appliedairfilters-DOT-com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

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Re: [GMCnet] Hitch mounted Motorcycle - Scooter carriers [message #325976 is a reply to message #325973] Mon, 13 November 2017 18:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimk is currently offline  jimk   United States
Messages: 4455
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 5
Senior Member
I realize, we show tongue weight of 1,000 lbs, however, to be able to drive
comfortably is an issue.
There are few accessory that can be used to transfer the load .
Were a Blue Ox Distributor and sell the Sway Pro weight distribution hitch
which makes a difference when the tongue weight exceeds 500 lbs.

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 4:42 PM, Jim Kanomata wrote:

> Should you elect to mount it in the back, we supply the HD Square receiver
> hitch that can handle.
> Were also working on a front mount with the Square receiver.
> Rick Flanagan will need to assist us on load calculations.
> I'm begining to see that the front mount has some limitation on weight
> capacity.
> Like any kit, we learned from Blue Ox, the towing people that you never
> want to weld onto a frame, just bolt it.
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 5:32 PM, Mike wrote:
>
>> powerjon wrote on Sun, 12 November 2017 09:23
>>> Mike,
>>> Find one that fit the Vespa weight and size and in the price range that
>> you can afford. Don't go cheap, mid range is probably best. Not an issue
>>> as for weight for the carrying the Vespa. I know a several that have
>> mounted the Honda Elite model 250. Depends totally on the type of hitch
>>> mounted on the rear of the GMC. Receiver type is the only one that I
>> would use, bumper bolt on is a NOT for usage.
>>>
>>> JR Wright
>>> GMC Great Laker MHC
>>> GMC Eastern States Charter Member
>>> GMCGL Tech Editor
>>> GMCMI
>>> 78 GMC Buskirk 30' Stretch
>>> 1975 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
>>> Michigan
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Nov 12, 2017, at 9:00 AM, Mike wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello All, i'm looking for suggestions on the best way to carry
>> along a 250 pound Vespa motor scooter?
>>>>
>>>> I am looking at hitch - mounted carriers for this application, do
>> you have any experience with a specific model or what would you recommend?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your opinions,
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>>
>> Thanks JR, I agree the hitch mount is the way to go.The Vespa weighs in
>> at ~265 lbs, going with a carrier that will handle 400 to 500 lbs should be
>> more than sufficient to support the scooter.
>>
>> Thanks again,
>> Regards,
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> jimk-AT-appliedairfilters-DOT-com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
>



--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk-AT-appliedairfilters-DOT-com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk-AT-appliedairfilters-DOT-com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
Re: Hitch mounted Motorcycle - Scooter carriers [message #325982 is a reply to message #325942] Mon, 13 November 2017 21:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GMC Jimmy is currently offline  GMC Jimmy   Canada
Messages: 140
Registered: September 2016
Location: Niagara, Ontario
Karma: 1
Senior Member
Thanks to everyone that responded, lots of good ideas and information. If you have additional photos of your carrier I would appreciate having a look.
Regards,
Mike
Re: [GMCnet] Hitch mounted Motorcycle - Scooter carriers [message #325988 is a reply to message #325982] Tue, 14 November 2017 01:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
johnd01 is currently offline  johnd01   United States
Messages: 123
Registered: July 2017
Location: Sacrameot
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Our tongue weight is an example of a third-class lever.
The front axle is the fulcrum = Af
The rear axle is the force = Ar
The ball hitch is the load, tongue = T
---Af------------------Ar-------T
The distance from (Af to T) / (Af to Ar) tongue weight = rear axle load
increase.
Rear axle load increase - tongue weight = front axle weigh decrease.
Af to Ar = wheelbase.
In the case of a trailer T is the ball center.
In the case of carrying, an object on a rack, T is the center of gravity
for the item.
For the front carrier:
Af becomes the force.
The distance from (T to Ar) / (Af to Ar) tongue weight = front axle load
increase.

I hope that helps to show how much moving the rack back a foot changes the
loading.


On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 7:23 PM, Mike wrote:

> Thanks to everyone that responded, lots of good ideas and information. If
> you have additional photos of your carrier I would appreciate having a
> look.
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>



--

*John Phillips*
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Johnd01
Re: [GMCnet] Hitch mounted Motorcycle - Scooter carriers [message #325989 is a reply to message #325976] Tue, 14 November 2017 03:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ronald Pottol is currently offline  Ronald Pottol   United States
Messages: 484
Registered: September 2012
Location: Redwood City, California
Karma: 0
Senior Member
A front receiver hitch would be nice, as I'd like to put a bike rack up
there.

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 4:58 PM, Jim Kanomata wrote:

> I realize, we show tongue weight of 1,000 lbs, however, to be able to drive
> comfortably is an issue.
> There are few accessory that can be used to transfer the load .
> Were a Blue Ox Distributor and sell the Sway Pro weight distribution hitch
> which makes a difference when the tongue weight exceeds 500 lbs.
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 4:42 PM, Jim Kanomata
> wrote:
>
>> Should you elect to mount it in the back, we supply the HD Square
> receiver
>> hitch that can handle.
>> Were also working on a front mount with the Square receiver.
>> Rick Flanagan will need to assist us on load calculations.
>> I'm begining to see that the front mount has some limitation on weight
>> capacity.
>> Like any kit, we learned from Blue Ox, the towing people that you never
>> want to weld onto a frame, just bolt it.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 5:32 PM, Mike
> wrote:
>>
>>> powerjon wrote on Sun, 12 November 2017 09:23
>>>> Mike,
>>>> Find one that fit the Vespa weight and size and in the price range
> that
>>> you can afford. Don't go cheap, mid range is probably best. Not an
> issue
>>>> as for weight for the carrying the Vespa. I know a several that have
>>> mounted the Honda Elite model 250. Depends totally on the type of hitch
>>>> mounted on the rear of the GMC. Receiver type is the only one that I
>>> would use, bumper bolt on is a NOT for usage.
>>>>
>>>> JR Wright
>>>> GMC Great Laker MHC
>>>> GMC Eastern States Charter Member
>>>> GMCGL Tech Editor
>>>> GMCMI
>>>> 78 GMC Buskirk 30' Stretch
>>>> 1975 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
>>>> Michigan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > On Nov 12, 2017, at 9:00 AM, Mike wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Hello All, i'm looking for suggestions on the best way to carry
>>> along a 250 pound Vespa motor scooter?
>>>> >
>>>> > I am looking at hitch - mounted carriers for this application, do
>>> you have any experience with a specific model or what would you
> recommend?
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Thanks for your opinions,
>>>> > Regards,
>>>> > Mike
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > GMCnet mailing list
>>>> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks JR, I agree the hitch mount is the way to go.The Vespa weighs in
>>> at ~265 lbs, going with a carrier that will handle 400 to 500 lbs
> should be
>>> more than sufficient to support the scooter.
>>>
>>> Thanks again,
>>> Regards,
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jim Kanomata
>> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
>> jimk-AT-appliedairfilters-DOT-com
>> http://www.appliedgmc.com
>> 1-800-752-7502
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> jimk-AT-appliedairfilters-DOT-com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>



--
Plato seems wrong to me today.
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1973 26' GM outfitted
Re: [GMCnet] Hitch mounted Motorcycle - Scooter carriers [message #325991 is a reply to message #325988] Tue, 14 November 2017 06:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15442
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 42
Senior Member
G'day,

Question: As the weight is increased on the rear suspension it would drop, when the ride height control system sensed it drop below
the spec it would raise it which would transfer weight back to the front end would it not?

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces-AT-list-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org] On Behalf Of John Phillips
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 1:52 AM
To: gmclist-AT-list-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Hitch mounted Motorcycle - Scooter carriers

Our tongue weight is an example of a third-class lever.
The front axle is the fulcrum = Af
The rear axle is the force = Ar
The ball hitch is the load, tongue = T
---Af------------------Ar-------T
The distance from (Af to T) / (Af to Ar) tongue weight = rear axle load
increase.
Rear axle load increase - tongue weight = front axle weigh decrease.
Af to Ar = wheelbase.
In the case of a trailer T is the ball center.
In the case of carrying, an object on a rack, T is the center of gravity
for the item.
For the front carrier:
Af becomes the force.
The distance from (T to Ar) / (Af to Ar) tongue weight = front axle load
increase.

I hope that helps to show how much moving the rack back a foot changes the
loading.

*John Phillips*


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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: [GMCnet] Hitch mounted Motorcycle - Scooter carriers [message #325992 is a reply to message #325991] Tue, 14 November 2017 07:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard Denney is currently offline  Richard Denney   United States
Messages: 585
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 2
Senior Member
Rob: No. It will level it up, to be sure. But it won't move the moment of
inertia. Imagine putting 10,000 pounds of tongue weight at the back bumper
(and assume for a moment that it wouldn't fold up the frame or overcome the
capability of the air bags, which, of course, it would in both cases).
10,000 pounds at the back bumper would cause the front wheels to lift in
the air. Jacking up the rear suspension would just make those front wheels
lift higher.

Rick "late 260's are already heavy at the rear" Denney

On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 7:44 AM, Rob Mueller
wrote:

> G'day,
>
> Question: As the weight is increased on the rear suspension it would drop,
> when the ride height control system sensed it drop below
> the spec it would raise it which would transfer weight back to the front
> end would it not?
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces-AT-list-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org] On Behalf Of John
> Phillips
> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 1:52 AM
> To: gmclist-AT-list-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Hitch mounted Motorcycle - Scooter carriers
>
> Our tongue weight is an example of a third-class lever.
> The front axle is the fulcrum = Af
> The rear axle is the force = Ar
> The ball hitch is the load, tongue = T
> ---Af------------------Ar-------T
> The distance from (Af to T) / (Af to Ar) tongue weight = rear axle load
> increase.
> Rear axle load increase - tongue weight = front axle weigh decrease.
> Af to Ar = wheelbase.
> In the case of a trailer T is the ball center.
> In the case of carrying, an object on a rack, T is the center of gravity
> for the item.
> For the front carrier:
> Af becomes the force.
> The distance from (T to Ar) / (Af to Ar) tongue weight = front axle load
> increase.
>
> I hope that helps to show how much moving the rack back a foot changes the
> loading.
>
> *John Phillips*
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>



--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
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Re: [GMCnet] Hitch mounted Motorcycle - Scooter carriers [message #325993 is a reply to message #325992] Tue, 14 November 2017 08:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15442
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 42
Senior Member
Rick,

Thanks for the explanation; if I understand it correctly in this instance the GMC could be considered a "lever."

The pivot point is the rear wheels.

From the rear wheels to the back bumper is the short end of the lever.

From the rear wheels to the front bumper is the long end of the lever.

Putting weight on either end of the lever will cause the opposite end to go up.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces-AT-list-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org] On Behalf Of Richard Denney
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 7:38 AM
To: gmclist-AT-list-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Hitch mounted Motorcycle - Scooter carriers

Rob: No. It will level it up, to be sure. But it won't move the moment of
inertia. Imagine putting 10,000 pounds of tongue weight at the back bumper
(and assume for a moment that it wouldn't fold up the frame or overcome the
capability of the air bags, which, of course, it would in both cases).
10,000 pounds at the back bumper would cause the front wheels to lift in
the air. Jacking up the rear suspension would just make those front wheels
lift higher.

Rick "late 260's are already heavy at the rear" Denney




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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: [GMCnet] Hitch mounted Motorcycle - Scooter carriers [message #325994 is a reply to message #325993] Tue, 14 November 2017 09:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
johnd01 is currently offline  johnd01   United States
Messages: 123
Registered: July 2017
Location: Sacrameot
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Rob, the lever runs from the load to the opposite axle.
The opposite axle is the pivot point.
The near axle would be the pivot point if the chassis bent at that point.
There will be some chassis flex but that flex will affect the actual
calculation on the order of 1 lb to 1,000,000.
If you take the chassis tilt into account both lever sections are affected
by the same factor leaving the ratio unchanged.
If you go up a 90-degree hill the entire weight is suspended from the front
axle and 0 load in on the rear wheels.
Any hill we climb the slope effect is insignificant.


On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 6:45 AM, Rob Mueller
wrote:

> Rick,
>
> Thanks for the explanation; if I understand it correctly in this instance
> the GMC could be considered a "lever."
>
> The pivot point is the rear wheels.
>
> From the rear wheels to the back bumper is the short end of the lever.
>
> From the rear wheels to the front bumper is the long end of the lever.
>
> Putting weight on either end of the lever will cause the opposite end to
> go up.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces-AT-list-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org] On Behalf Of
> Richard Denney
> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 7:38 AM
> To: gmclist-AT-list-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Hitch mounted Motorcycle - Scooter carriers
>
> Rob: No. It will level it up, to be sure. But it won't move the moment of
> inertia. Imagine putting 10,000 pounds of tongue weight at the back bumper
> (and assume for a moment that it wouldn't fold up the frame or overcome the
> capability of the air bags, which, of course, it would in both cases).
> 10,000 pounds at the back bumper would cause the front wheels to lift in
> the air. Jacking up the rear suspension would just make those front wheels
> lift higher.
>
> Rick "late 260's are already heavy at the rear" Denney
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>



--

*John Phillips*
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Johnd01
Re: [GMCnet] Hitch mounted Motorcycle - Scooter carriers [message #325996 is a reply to message #325994] Tue, 14 November 2017 11:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Keith V is currently offline  Keith V   United States
Messages: 1929
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 4
Senior Member
I'm pretty sure that if MY coach was on a 90 degree hill both axles would have zero load.

In fact the load would most likely be all on the roof :D


I'm in the rear axle is the fulcrum camp frame flex or not.


________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of John Phillips
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 9:53:26 AM
To: gmclist-AT-list-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Hitch mounted Motorcycle - Scooter carriers

Rob, the lever runs from the load to the opposite axle.
The opposite axle is the pivot point.
The near axle would be the pivot point if the chassis bent at that point.
There will be some chassis flex but that flex will affect the actual
calculation on the order of 1 lb to 1,000,000.
If you take the chassis tilt into account both lever sections are affected
by the same factor leaving the ratio unchanged.
If you go up a 90-degree hill the entire weight is suspended from the front
axle and 0 load in on the rear wheels.
Any hill we climb the slope effect is insignificant.


On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 6:45 AM, Rob Mueller
wrote:

> Rick,
>
> Thanks for the explanation; if I understand it correctly in this instance
> the GMC could be considered a "lever."
>
> The pivot point is the rear wheels.
>
> From the rear wheels to the back bumper is the short end of the lever.
>
> From the rear wheels to the front bumper is the long end of the lever.
>
> Putting weight on either end of the lever will cause the opposite end to
> go up.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces-AT-list-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org] On Behalf Of
> Richard Denney
> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 7:38 AM
> To: gmclist-AT-list-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Hitch mounted Motorcycle - Scooter carriers
>
> Rob: No. It will level it up, to be sure. But it won't move the moment of
> inertia. Imagine putting 10,000 pounds of tongue weight at the back bumper
> (and assume for a moment that it wouldn't fold up the frame or overcome the
> capability of the air bags, which, of course, it would in both cases).
> 10,000 pounds at the back bumper would cause the front wheels to lift in
> the air. Jacking up the rear suspension would just make those front wheels
> lift higher.
>
> Rick "late 260's are already heavy at the rear" Denney
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>



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Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
69 Vette
29 Dodge
Re: [GMCnet] Hitch mounted Motorcycle - Scooter carriers [message #325997 is a reply to message #325996] Tue, 14 November 2017 12:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
johnd01 is currently offline  johnd01   United States
Messages: 123
Registered: July 2017
Location: Sacrameot
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Keith, you are correct. The back axle does act as a fulcrum and load
applied to the hitch does remove weight from the front wheels. I was in the
method of calculating the mode. Sorry.

When doing the calculations in effect you do two torque calculations. The
distance from the front axle to the hitch in feet multiplied by the
tongue weight gives a value in foot-pounds.
Divide the foot-pounds by the wheelbase in feet to come up with the force
in pounds the rear axle must exert to support the tongue weight.


On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 9:00 AM, Keith V wrote:

> I'm pretty sure that if MY coach was on a 90 degree hill both axles would
> have zero load.
>
> In fact the load would most likely be all on the roof :D
>
>
> I'm in the rear axle is the fulcrum camp frame flex or not.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gmclist on behalf of John
> Phillips
> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 9:53:26 AM
> To: gmclist-AT-list-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Hitch mounted Motorcycle - Scooter carriers
>
> Rob, the lever runs from the load to the opposite axle.
> The opposite axle is the pivot point.
> The near axle would be the pivot point if the chassis bent at that point.
> There will be some chassis flex but that flex will affect the actual
> calculation on the order of 1 lb to 1,000,000.
> If you take the chassis tilt into account both lever sections are affected
> by the same factor leaving the ratio unchanged.
> If you go up a 90-degree hill the entire weight is suspended from the front
> axle and 0 load in on the rear wheels.
> Any hill we climb the slope effect is insignificant.
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 6:45 AM, Rob Mueller
> wrote:
>
>> Rick,
>>
>> Thanks for the explanation; if I understand it correctly in this instance
>> the GMC could be considered a "lever."
>>
>> The pivot point is the rear wheels.
>>
>> From the rear wheels to the back bumper is the short end of the lever.
>>
>> From the rear wheels to the front bumper is the long end of the lever.
>>
>> Putting weight on either end of the lever will cause the opposite end to
>> go up.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rob M.
>> The Pedantic Mechanic
>> Sydney, Australia
>> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
>> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces-AT-list-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org] On Behalf Of
>> Richard Denney
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 7:38 AM
>> To: gmclist-AT-list-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Hitch mounted Motorcycle - Scooter carriers
>>
>> Rob: No. It will level it up, to be sure. But it won't move the moment of
>> inertia. Imagine putting 10,000 pounds of tongue weight at the back
> bumper
>> (and assume for a moment that it wouldn't fold up the frame or overcome
> the
>> capability of the air bags, which, of course, it would in both cases).
>> 10,000 pounds at the back bumper would cause the front wheels to lift in
>> the air. Jacking up the rear suspension would just make those front
> wheels
>> lift higher.
>>
>> Rick "late 260's are already heavy at the rear" Denney
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *John Phillips*
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Johnd01
Re: [GMCnet] Hitch mounted Motorcycle - Scooter carriers [message #325998 is a reply to message #325944] Tue, 14 November 2017 12:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
johnd01 is currently offline  johnd01   United States
Messages: 123
Registered: July 2017
Location: Sacrameot
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Would the front bumper support this adapter? Given the front axle load
limitation, this adapter should hold all the weight that should be placed
on a front rack if the bumper will carry the load.
www.etrailer.com/RV-and-Camper-Hitch/Curt/E-100.html



On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 10:38 AM, John Phillips
wrote:

> Keith, you are correct. The back axle does act as a fulcrum and load
> applied to the hitch does remove weight from the front wheels. I was in the
> method of calculating the mode. Sorry.
>
> When doing the calculations in effect you do two torque calculations. The
> distance from the front axle to the hitch in feet multiplied by the
> tongue weight gives a value in foot-pounds.
> Divide the foot-pounds by the wheelbase in feet to come up with the force
> in pounds the rear axle must exert to support the tongue weight.
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 9:00 AM, Keith V wrote:
>
>> I'm pretty sure that if MY coach was on a 90 degree hill both axles would
>> have zero load.
>>
>> In fact the load would most likely be all on the roof :D
>>
>>
>> I'm in the rear axle is the fulcrum camp frame flex or not.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Johnd01
Re: [GMCnet] Hitch mounted Motorcycle - Scooter carriers [message #325999 is a reply to message #325998] Tue, 14 November 2017 13:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
Messages: 6412
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 32
Senior Member
johnd01 wrote on Tue, 14 November 2017 13:47
Would the front bumper support this adapter? Given the front axle load limitation, this adapter should hold all the weight that should be placed on a front rack if the bumper will carry the load.
www.etrailer.com/RV-and-Camper-Hitch/Curt/E-100.html

I think I would collect weights before I went that way.
I have an old and light 23' and the front axle weight is very near the rated. So close, that I would like to more the house bank to the back if it had one.

Matt


Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: [GMCnet] Hitch mounted Motorcycle - Scooter carriers [message #326000 is a reply to message #325999] Tue, 14 November 2017 14:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Keith V is currently offline  Keith V   United States
Messages: 1929
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 4
Senior Member
Clearly we need a center mount receiver, 1/2 way between the axles......

________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Matt Colie
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 1:50:59 PM
To: gmclist-AT-list-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Hitch mounted Motorcycle - Scooter carriers

johnd01 wrote on Tue, 14 November 2017 13:47
> Would the front bumper support this adapter? Given the front axle load limitation, this adapter should hold all the weight that should be placed
> on a front rack if the bumper will carry the load.
> www.etrailer.com/RV-and-Camper-Hitch/Curt/E-100.html

I think I would collect weights before I went that way.
I have an old and light 23' and the front axle weight is very near the rated. So close, that I would like to more the house bank to the back if it
had one.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

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Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
69 Vette
29 Dodge
Re: [GMCnet] Hitch mounted Motorcycle - Scooter carriers [message #326001 is a reply to message #326000] Tue, 14 November 2017 14:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimk is currently offline  jimk   United States
Messages: 4455
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 5
Senior Member
Neither the front or rear bumper i s capable of carrying a load mor than
200 lbs at the bumper, as you extend it further out, you'll just twist the
bumper.
Our Front hitch tube will use the bumper only as a stabilizing structure,
but a weight bearing member.

On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 12:00 PM, Keith V wrote:

> Clearly we need a center mount receiver, 1/2 way between the axles......
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gmclist on behalf of Matt Colie matt7323tze-AT-gmail-DOT-com>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 1:50:59 PM
> To: gmclist-AT-list-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Hitch mounted Motorcycle - Scooter carriers
>
> johnd01 wrote on Tue, 14 November 2017 13:47
>> Would the front bumper support this adapter? Given the front axle load
> limitation, this adapter should hold all the weight that should be placed
>> on a front rack if the bumper will carry the load.
>> www.etrailer.com/RV-and-Camper-Hitch/Curt/E-100.html ttp://www.etrailer.com/RV-and-Camper-Hitch/Curt/E-100.html>
>
> I think I would collect weights before I went that way.
> I have an old and light 23' and the front axle weight is very near the
> rated. So close, that I would like to more the house bank to the back if it
> had one.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> _______________________________________________
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>



--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk-AT-appliedairfilters-DOT-com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk-AT-appliedairfilters-DOT-com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
Re: [GMCnet] Hitch mounted Motorcycle - Scooter carriers [message #326003 is a reply to message #325967] Tue, 14 November 2017 14:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rob is currently offline  Rob   United States
Messages: 405
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Karma: 0
Senior Member
I use a similar rack (from Princess Auto) - it works OK for a light scooter.

I'm amazed at how much weight some people carry on their GMC's - I switched last year from a ~230 pound scooter to a ~290 pound scooter and really noticed an undesirable change in the overall handling. I can't imagine putting my BMW GS back there!

Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath

> On Nov 13, 2017, at 10:45 AM, Dutch Marc wrote:
>
> I have been using this cheapo with my through the bumper hitch from Applied
>
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B014VC5H64/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>
> Works great for my Honda Big Ruckus 250 (480 lbs)
>
> Good luck !
>
> Dutch Marc
> --
> 1973 26' Canyon Land (Mello Yello) (TZE063v101302)
> Los Angeles, CA ('98 NL 2 USA)
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Rob - Victoria, BC - 76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
Re: [GMCnet] Hitch mounted Motorcycle - Scooter carriers [message #326005 is a reply to message #326003] Tue, 14 November 2017 16:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SONICJK is currently offline  SONICJK   United States
Messages: 537
Registered: April 2015
Location: Bell Buckle, TN
Karma: 1
Senior Member
Rob wrote on Tue, 14 November 2017 14:54
I use a similar rack (from Princess Auto) - it works OK for a light scooter.

I'm amazed at how much weight some people carry on their GMC's - I switched last year from a ~230 pound scooter to a ~290 pound scooter and really noticed an undesirable change in the overall handling. I can't imagine putting my BMW GS back there!

Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath

> On Nov 13, 2017, at 10:45 AM, Dutch Marc wrote:
>
> I have been using this cheapo with my through the bumper hitch from Applied
>
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B014VC5H64/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>
> Works great for my Honda Big Ruckus 250 (480 lbs)
>
> Good luck !
>
> Dutch Marc
> --
> 1973 26' Canyon Land (Mello Yello) (TZE063v101302)
> Los Angeles, CA ('98 NL 2 USA)
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Rob,
I think it has a lot to do with the Individual coach.
Mine is very light so adding the GS isn't a big deal. I'm still lighter than most even with it on there.

I can certainly feel it take weight off the front wheels, and it will spin easier when starting from a stop on a steep incline, but it's never been a problem.

Also a load mounted on the hitch should not have the same effect as a trailer tongue weight because the weight does not transfer when you hit the brakes.ie your front isn't going to get lighter under hard braking like it would with a trailer. (Although it is lighter in general for reasons already discussed)


Justin Brady http://www.thegmcrv.com/ 1976 Palm Beach 455
Re: [GMCnet] Hitch mounted Motorcycle - Scooter carriers [message #326008 is a reply to message #326005] Tue, 14 November 2017 19:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rob is currently offline  Rob   United States
Messages: 405
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Yeah - I'd have to experience it to know for sure... Perhaps it's related to my 1-Ton Frontend? I check my heights regularly to be sure I'm level.

In my case - I love the handling of mine with nothing on the hitch. With the small scooter, it starts to feel different - but with the big scooter, it's gets a pretty good "shake" with anything more than a relatively light throttle. I'd love to take my BMW along - but it's not gonna happen for me. Instead - I'm putting a 155cc kit on the scooter...

But - I only have first hand experience with my own coach and there are so few GMC's nearby to do any testing!

Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath

> On Nov 14, 2017, at 2:01 PM, Justin Brady wrote:
>
> Rob,
> I think it has a lot to do with the Individual coach.
> Mine is very light so adding the GS isn't a big deal. I'm still lighter than most even with it on there.
>
> I can certainly feel it take weight off the front wheels, and it will spin easier when starting from a stop on a steep incline, but it's never been a
> problem.
>
> Also a load mounted on the hitch should not have the same effect as a trailer tongue weight because the weight does not transfer when you hit the
> brakes.ie your front isn't going to get lighter under hard braking like it would with a trailer. (Although it is lighter in general for reasons
> already discussed)
>
> --
> Justin Brady
> http://www.thegmcrv.com/
> 1976 Palm Beach 455
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Rob - Victoria, BC - 76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
Re: [GMCnet] Hitch mounted Motorcycle - Scooter carriers [message #326009 is a reply to message #326003] Tue, 14 November 2017 19:07 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
johnd01 is currently offline  johnd01   United States
Messages: 123
Registered: July 2017
Location: Sacrameot
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Given that 200 lbs 4 feet in front of the front axle adds about 260 lbs to
the front axle for a 26-foot coach or 270 for a 23. I would think 200 lbs
is more than the front axle should carry. Even a light coach is very close
to the maximum front axle rating with two adults in the front seats.

On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 12:54 PM, Rob wrote:

> I use a similar rack (from Princess Auto) - it works OK for a light
> scooter.
>
> I'm amazed at how much weight some people carry on their GMC's - I
> switched last year from a ~230 pound scooter to a ~290 pound scooter and
> really noticed an undesirable change in the overall handling. I can't
> imagine putting my BMW GS back there!
>
> Rob
> Victoria, BC
> 76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
>
>> On Nov 13, 2017, at 10:45 AM, Dutch Marc wrote:
>>
>> I have been using this cheapo with my through the bumper hitch from
> Applied
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B014VC5H64/ref=oh_aui_
> search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>>
>> Works great for my Honda Big Ruckus 250 (480 lbs)
>>
>> Good luck !
>>
>> Dutch Marc
>> --
>> 1973 26' Canyon Land (Mello Yello) (TZE063v101302)
>> Los Angeles, CA ('98 NL 2 USA)
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>



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Johnd01
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