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Re: [GMCnet] porous aluminum tranny pan [message #324347 is a reply to message #324339] Mon, 25 September 2017 11:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dennis S is currently offline  Dennis S   United States
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
Senior Member
Would this insulating varnish from McMaster work? Only $7.25 per can.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#electrical-insulating-varnish/=19jedjl



midlf wrote on Mon, 25 September 2017 08:55
KB wrote on Sun, 24 September 2017 21:18


I found this stuff on Amazon. Maybe the same stuff?

https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Insulating-Varnish-Bottle/dp/B00S4H8V1Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1506304489&sr=8-1&keywords=glyptol#deta il-bullets

Karen



Yes, same stuff. This is a class H insulation. It will maintain it's electrical insulating properties up to 180C/356F. "Glyptal" is used to paint the inside of utility oil filled transformers. Transformers will not get to 180C but neither will the interior surface of your trans pan as it is air cooled on the outside.


Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
Re: [GMCnet] porous aluminum tranny pan [message #324348 is a reply to message #324347] Mon, 25 September 2017 11:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dennis S is currently offline  Dennis S   United States
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
Senior Member
I should have pointed to the green varnish as it is oil resistant but $8.88 per can.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#electrical-insulating-varnish/=19jedjl

Dennis S wrote on Mon, 25 September 2017 11:18
Would this insulating varnish from McMaster work? Only $7.25 per can.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#electrical-insulating-varnish/=19jedjl



midlf wrote on Mon, 25 September 2017 08:55
KB wrote on Sun, 24 September 2017 21:18


I found this stuff on Amazon. Maybe the same stuff?

https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Insulating-Varnish-Bottle/dp/B00S4H8V1Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1506304489&sr=8-1&keywords=glyptol#deta il-bullets

Karen



Yes, same stuff. This is a class H insulation. It will maintain it's electrical insulating properties up to 180C/356F. "Glyptal" is used to paint the inside of utility oil filled transformers. Transformers will not get to 180C but neither will the interior surface of your trans pan as it is air cooled on the outside.


Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
Re: porous aluminum tranny pan [message #324358 is a reply to message #324169] Mon, 25 September 2017 16:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dr.diesel is currently offline  dr.diesel   United States
Messages: 85
Registered: April 2015
Location: The Haute, Indiana
Karma: 0
Member
I have been fighting this same issue for a year or so now. Kept thinking it must be weeping through the porous AL, but how could that be, Grrrrr, wonder if Jim will honor/swap these out.

Where do I send the bill for many hours of RR, cleaning, gallons of tranny fluid?


77 Kingsley
Re: [GMCnet] porous aluminum tranny pan [message #324359 is a reply to message #324358] Mon, 25 September 2017 17:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
Senior Member
Mike,

I believe that these pans are sand cast and from my experience with Harley's sand cast pasts are porous and they weep.

Make believe your GMC is like your Harley, it's not leaking it's marking its spot! ;-)

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 4:56 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] porous aluminum tranny pan

I have been fighting this same issue for a year or so now. Kept thinking it must be weeping through the porous AL, but how could
that be, Grrrrr, wonder if Jim will honor/swap these out.

Where do I send the bill for many hours of RR, cleaning, gallons of tranny fluid?
--
77 Kingsley



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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: [GMCnet] porous aluminum tranny pan [message #324373 is a reply to message #324359] Tue, 26 September 2017 00:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimk is currently offline  jimk   United States
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
Senior Member
If you purchased the pan from us , I will send you another one (new),N/C ,
that way it will be cleaner so if you desire to coat the onside, it will be
easier.
Contact us first so we can ship it to you first and have it ready to
install, then return the weeping one. We will credit you for the return
cost.
Since were the largest supplier for Ragusa, I will see how we might have it
coated at their facility.

On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 3:19 PM, Rob Mueller
wrote:

> Mike,
>
> I believe that these pans are sand cast and from my experience with
> Harley's sand cast pasts are porous and they weep.
>
> Make believe your GMC is like your Harley, it's not leaking it's marking
> its spot! ;-)
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Andy
> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 4:56 PM
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] porous aluminum tranny pan
>
> I have been fighting this same issue for a year or so now. Kept thinking
> it must be weeping through the porous AL, but how could
> that be, Grrrrr, wonder if Jim will honor/swap these out.
>
> Where do I send the bill for many hours of RR, cleaning, gallons of tranny
> fluid?
> --
> 77 Kingsley
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>



--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
Re: [GMCnet] porous aluminum tranny pan [message #324374 is a reply to message #324347] Tue, 26 September 2017 03:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
midlf is currently offline  midlf   United States
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
Senior Member
Dennis S wrote on Mon, 25 September 2017 11:18
Would this insulating varnish from McMaster work? Only $7.25 per can.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#electrical-insulating-varnish/=19jedjl




This is class F. Other stuff is class H. These are temperature ratings. Higher is better.


Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
Re: [GMCnet] porous aluminum tranny pan [message #324383 is a reply to message #324335] Tue, 26 September 2017 08:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Henderson is currently offline  Ken Henderson   United States
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
Senior Member
Well, after 5 hours at 280*F almost full of used ATF, the baked-on
Duplicolor 500*F Ceramic Engine Paint looks good. There is a very faint
difference in color where the ATF was vs exposed to air, but only barely
noticeable. I tried scratching the finish above and below that parting
line, using a nylon scraper. There was no effect on the paint in either
location. I'm sure I could easily penetrate the finish with a sharp metal
scribe, but see no reason to do so.

I'm going to install the Ragusa and run it. I certainly don't anticipate
any problems, but will report if I have any later.

Despite the apparent success of this method, I'd still recommend using
water glass, glyptal, or some other finish known to survive such
environments.

Ken H.


On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 9:33 AM, Ken Henderson
wrote:

> If I'd had any idea that small an amount of glyptal would be enough, I'd
> have ordered the 225 mL (7.6 oz) bottle from Amazon Prime for $21.51. That
> would probably be as cheap and certainly less trouble than your proposed
> transhipment.
>
> Since I've already embarked on my own experiment, I'll continue it. I
> just drained about 1/2 a Ragusa pan of ATF from the GMC and placed it in a
> 250*F oven for 5 hours. I'll check for leakage after that cools overnight,
> then clean it thoroughly and examine the paint for changes.
>
> Ken H.
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
Re: porous aluminum tranny pan [message #326115 is a reply to message #324169] Fri, 17 November 2017 15:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KB is currently offline  KB   United States
Messages: 1262
Registered: September 2009
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Senior Member
For the record, Ragusa very kindly sent me a replacement pan, which I immediately coated with glyptol, baked as suggested, and installed.
Chase at Ragusa pressure tested the old pan and found that it is NOT porous/leaking. Good folks there at Ragusa, and I feel bad for returning
what apparently is/was a good pan. Sure as heck looked like it was porous, but apparently not. Embarassed

KB wrote on Thu, 21 September 2017 21:02
So, I got a ragusa transmission pan recently, and overall am really happy with it. One big problem though: it appears to be porous, and is leaking.
I know other folks have run into this before, but not sure what the fix is. Some kind of coating? A new pan??

Any suggestions?

thanks,
Karen
1975 26'



Re: [GMCnet] porous aluminum tranny pan [message #326120 is a reply to message #326115] Fri, 17 November 2017 18:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kingsley Coach is currently offline  Kingsley Coach   United States
Messages: 2691
Registered: March 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Karma: -34
Senior Member
It seems peculiar that we pay our money for a product that doesn't work and
then spend more money and time trying to get it to work...and we keep
buying??

Mike from NS

On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 5:48 PM, KB wrote:

> For the record, Ragusa very kindly sent me a replacement pan, which I
> immediately coated with glyptol, baked as suggested, and installed.
> Chase at Ragusa pressure tested the old pan and found that it is NOT
> porous/leaking. Good folks there at Ragusa, and I feel bad for returning
> what apparently is/was a good pan. Sure as heck looked like it was
> porous, but apparently not. :blush:
>
> KB wrote on Thu, 21 September 2017 21:02
>> So, I got a ragusa transmission pan recently, and overall am really
> happy with it. One big problem though: it appears to be porous, and is
>> leaking.
>> I know other folks have run into this before, but not sure what the fix
> is. Some kind of coating? A new pan??
>>
>> Any suggestions?
>>
>> thanks,
>> Karen
>> 1975 26'
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>



--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS

Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !
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Re: [GMCnet] porous aluminum tranny pan [message #326123 is a reply to message #326120] Fri, 17 November 2017 19:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Henderson is currently offline  Ken Henderson   United States
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
Senior Member
Karen,

Thanks for reminding me that I haven't reported on my Ragusa pan coating
results: After 3+ weeks of using the pan I painted inside and baked, I can
report that I've lost about a pint of fluid...

It's now obvious that the porosity, if it ever had any, is cured. But,
there is leakage at the rear of the pan only, probably from the flange, but
possibly from the chain cover. Because the leaks run down the side of the
pan without leaving an easily detected trail, the drops on the flanges at
the bottom of the pan appear to be coming through the aluminum -- they're
NOT.

I'm using a nicely made Felpro composition gasket, Permatex'd to the pan
(but not the transmission). I did not paint the pan's flange, as someone
suggested too late, but that aviation Permatex should certainly prevent any
leakage there. So, I'm still keeping a drip tray under the transmission
and don't know what to try next -- unless I R&R the chain cover and reseal
it as well -- but Manny probably used Permatex on both sides of that
gasket. :-(

Ken
​Drippy ​
H.


> On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 5:48 PM, KB wrote:
>
>> For the record, Ragusa very kindly sent me a replacement pan, which I
>> immediately coated with glyptol, baked as suggested, and installed.
>> Chase at Ragusa pressure tested the old pan and found that it is NOT
>> porous/leaking. Good folks there at Ragusa, and I feel bad for returning
>> what apparently is/was a good pan. Sure as heck looked like it was
>> porous, but apparently not. :blush:
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
Re: [GMCnet] porous aluminum tranny pan [message #326124 is a reply to message #326123] Fri, 17 November 2017 20:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimk is currently offline  jimk   United States
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
Senior Member
Should you acquire a pan or any product from us that does not perform, call
me personally and I'll send you anther right away.
We know in anything that is manufactured that there will always going to be
defects.
There is a reason why we are the largest supplier.
We spend tremendous time on the phone to assist and take car of our
customers. Nick, Gary, Grace and Big Mouth Can of Tomatoes.
I make one exception; when a guy says we don't know what were doing and
find that it was not our doing, then I TEll him to pay me back. Good luck,
he might have a strong mouth , but a tight wallet.


On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 5:55 PM, Ken Henderson
wrote:

> Karen,
>
> Thanks for reminding me that I haven't reported on my Ragusa pan coating
> results: After 3+ weeks of using the pan I painted inside and baked, I can
> report that I've lost about a pint of fluid...
>
> It's now obvious that the porosity, if it ever had any, is cured. But,
> there is leakage at the rear of the pan only, probably from the flange, but
> possibly from the chain cover. Because the leaks run down the side of the
> pan without leaving an easily detected trail, the drops on the flanges at
> the bottom of the pan appear to be coming through the aluminum -- they're
> NOT.
>
> I'm using a nicely made Felpro composition gasket, Permatex'd to the pan
> (but not the transmission). I did not paint the pan's flange, as someone
> suggested too late, but that aviation Permatex should certainly prevent any
> leakage there. So, I'm still keeping a drip tray under the transmission
> and don't know what to try next -- unless I R&R the chain cover and reseal
> it as well -- but Manny probably used Permatex on both sides of that
> gasket. :-(
>
> Ken
> ​Drippy ​
> H.
>
>
>> On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 5:48 PM, KB wrote:
>>
>>> For the record, Ragusa very kindly sent me a replacement pan, which I
>>> immediately coated with glyptol, baked as suggested, and installed.
>>> Chase at Ragusa pressure tested the old pan and found that it is NOT
>>> porous/leaking. Good folks there at Ragusa, and I feel bad for
> returning
>>> what apparently is/was a good pan. Sure as heck looked like it was
>>> porous, but apparently not. :blush:
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>



--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
Re: [GMCnet] porous aluminum tranny pan [message #326125 is a reply to message #326123] Fri, 17 November 2017 20:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Larry is currently offline  Larry   United States
Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
Senior Member
Ken Henderson wrote on Fri, 17 November 2017 19:55
Karen,

Thanks for reminding me that I haven't reported on my Ragusa pan coating
results: After 3+ weeks of using the pan I painted inside and baked, I can
report that I've lost about a pint of fluid...

It's now obvious that the porosity, if it ever had any, is cured. But,
there is leakage at the rear of the pan only, probably from the flange, but
possibly from the chain cover. Because the leaks run down the side of the
pan without leaving an easily detected trail, the drops on the flanges at
the bottom of the pan appear to be coming through the aluminum -- they're
NOT.

I'm using a nicely made Felpro composition gasket, Permatex'd to the pan
(but not the transmission). I did not paint the pan's flange, as someone
suggested too late, but that aviation Permatex should certainly prevent any
leakage there. So, I'm still keeping a drip tray under the transmission
and don't know what to try next -- unless I R&R the chain cover and reseal
it as well -- but Manny probably used Permatex on both sides of that
gasket. Sad

Ken
​Drippy ​
H.

Ken,

I've been chasing a leak for about a year now and finally discovered it in an odd place. If you open the hatch and look straight down at where the cooler lines go into the trans, slightly above and slightly to the left of the inner line, I could see what looks like a bolt hole with the end of a bolt slightly exposed. I have looked at two other transmissions that I have and neither has this bolt hole, only the trans in my coach. What I am seeing is the end of a bolt that can only be found by dropping the trans and taking off the chain cover, so I have no idea what is for. It was leaking just little , but enough to coat the trans pan, and everything else in the vicinity with trans fluid. Took about a pint every 500 mi, and did a nice antirust job on the underside of my coach with many drops that reached the toad.

To fix it without taking the trans down, I used a Dremel tool with a right angle adaptor and a small diamond grinder. I first sprayed it with Brake Clean, then did some roughing up of all of the surfaces in the area, along with sanding the flat surfaces around the hole. Then mixed up some JB Weld, and spread it over the hole. Got about 100 miles on it now and leak is gone. Will see if it lasts.

If I can get the pics off of my phone, I'll post them on the photo site.

JWID and HTH


Larry Smile
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
Re: porous aluminum tranny pan [message #326130 is a reply to message #324169] Fri, 17 November 2017 21:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Larry is currently offline  Larry   United States
Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
Senior Member
OK, so here is the link to the leak fix.

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/transmission-leak/p63991-odd-trans-leak.html


Larry Smile
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
Re: [GMCnet] porous aluminum tranny pan [message #326146 is a reply to message #326125] Sat, 18 November 2017 11:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
richshoop is currently offline  richshoop   United States
Messages: 190
Registered: April 2017
Karma: 0
Senior Member
You might consider cleaning the parts one more time, wait a bit for the inevitable drip, and using one of those UV flashlights look for the tell tale drip. Most automotive fluids include an fluorescent dye in them exactly for leak locating purposes.
----- Original Message -----

From: "Larry"
To: "gmclist"
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 6:26:41 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] porous aluminum tranny pan

Ken Henderson wrote on Fri, 17 November 2017 19:55
> Karen,
>
> Thanks for reminding me that I haven't reported on my Ragusa pan coating
> results: After 3+ weeks of using the pan I painted inside and baked, I can
> report that I've lost about a pint of fluid...
>
> It's now obvious that the porosity, if it ever had any, is cured. But,
> there is leakage at the rear of the pan only, probably from the flange, but
> possibly from the chain cover. Because the leaks run down the side of the
> pan without leaving an easily detected trail, the drops on the flanges at
> the bottom of the pan appear to be coming through the aluminum -- they're
> NOT.
>
> I'm using a nicely made Felpro composition gasket, Permatex'd to the pan
> (but not the transmission). I did not paint the pan's flange, as someone
> suggested too late, but that aviation Permatex should certainly prevent any
> leakage there. So, I'm still keeping a drip tray under the transmission
> and don't know what to try next -- unless I R&R the chain cover and reseal
> it as well -- but Manny probably used Permatex on both sides of that
> gasket. :(
>
> Ken
> ​Drippy ​
> H.

Ken,

I've been chasing a leak for about a year now and finally discovered it in an odd place. If you open the hatch and look straight down at where the
cooler lines go into the trans, slightly above and slightly to the left of the inner line, I could see what looks like a bolt hole with the end of a
bolt slightly exposed. I have looked at two other transmissions that I have and neither has this bolt hole, only the trans in my coach. What I am
seeing is the end of a bolt that can only be found by dropping the trans and taking off the chain cover, so I have no idea what is for. It was
leaking just little , but enough to coat the trans pan, and everything else in the vicinity with trans fluid. Took about a pint every 500 mi, and did
a nice antirust job on the underside of my coach with many drops that reached the toad.

To fix it without taking the trans down, I used a Dremel tool with a right angle adaptor and a small diamond grinder. I first sprayed it with Brake
Clean, then did some roughing up of all of the surfaces in the area, along with sanding the flat surfaces around the hole. Then mixed up some JB
Weld, and spread it over the hole. Got about 100 miles on it now and leak is gone. Will see if it lasts.

If I can get the pics off of my phone, I'll post them on the photo site.

JWID and HTH

--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.

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Re: [GMCnet] porous aluminum tranny pan [message #326153 is a reply to message #326120] Sat, 18 November 2017 14:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KB is currently offline  KB   United States
Messages: 1262
Registered: September 2009
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Kingsley Coach wrote on Fri, 17 November 2017 16:58
It seems peculiar that we pay our money for a product that doesn't work and
then spend more money and time trying to get it to work...and we keep
buying??




Ragusa makes good stuff and stands behind their products and I will not hesitate to buy from them again.
They sent me the replacement free as soon as I talked to them about it. Good folks.

I really like the tranny pan. It's wonderful to be able to drain the oil without having to take the pan down, which I've had to do rather often with all the mechanical work. There were plenty of leaks with the stock pan too. And yes, there's still a leak, but clearly it's from somewhere else since the new pan is coated with glyptol, has a brand new gasket coated in aviation sealant, and a very clean mounting surface.
Looks exactly like the leak KenH is chasing...

Karen
1975 26'



Re: [GMCnet] porous aluminum tranny pan [message #326154 is a reply to message #326153] Sat, 18 November 2017 16:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tphipps is currently offline  tphipps   United States
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
Senior Member
I also like the extra transmission fluid and the prepared port to attach a temperature sensor.
Tom


2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552 KA4CSG
Re: [GMCnet] porous aluminum tranny pan [message #326157 is a reply to message #326130] Sat, 18 November 2017 19:13 Go to previous message
Ken Henderson is currently offline  Ken Henderson   United States
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
Senior Member
Larry,

Boy, that was hard to see! I had to go through all the photos to finally
realize that the bolt was right under the ATF drop! I'll certainly look to
be sure I don't have one there, but I'm pretty sure not. I'll look at the
other two recently rebuilt ones here also & let you know.

Ken H.


On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 10:08 PM, Larry wrote:

> OK, so here is the link to the leak fix.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/transmission-leak/p63991-
> odd-trans-leak.html
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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