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Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » A Question for DigiPanel Experts (Are the sensors just standard K type thermocouples ?)
A Question for DigiPanel Experts [message #317884] Mon, 22 May 2017 23:19 Go to next message
SteveW is currently offline  SteveW   United States
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Registered: June 2005
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Greetings and THANKS in advance for all of the information shared here...

I've recently come upon an old DigiPanel. I hooked it up and it works - well - Battery and Oil Pressure at least. I haven't run the sensor down to the transmission pan yet, and the sensor for the thermostat housing was cut off. I got a replacement from JimK but haven't spliced it in yet.

But it got me to wondering... what's so magic about the sensors ?? Two wires terminating at a small piece of copper to be secured under a bolt head. Is is some sort of bi-metal ?? Is it just a regular old Type K thermocouple ?? Anybody know ??

Steve W
1973 23'
Southern California





Steve W 1973 : 23' Southern California
Re: [GMCnet] A Question for DigiPanel Experts [message #317887 is a reply to message #317884] Mon, 22 May 2017 23:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
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Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
Senior Member
Steve,

IIRC it's a thermister:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermistor

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve
Weinstock
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 2:19 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] A Question for DigiPanel Experts

Greetings and THANKS in advance for all of the information shared here...

I've recently come upon an old DigiPanel. I hooked it up and it works -
well - Battery and Oil Pressure at least. I haven't run the sensor down to
the transmission pan yet, and the sensor for the thermostat housing was cut
off. I got a replacement from JimK but haven't spliced it in yet.

But it got me to wondering... what's so magic about the sensors ?? Two
wires terminating at a small piece of copper to be secured under a bolt
head.
Is is some sort of bi-metal ?? Is it just a regular old Type K thermocouple
?? Anybody know ??

Steve W
1973 23'
Southern California





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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: A Question for DigiPanel Experts [message #317890 is a reply to message #317884] Tue, 23 May 2017 00:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SteveW is currently offline  SteveW   United States
Messages: 538
Registered: June 2005
Location: Southern California - Ora...
Karma: 1
Senior Member
Thanks Rob -

That does make sense...

The part from JimK is the copper piece that goes under a bolt head and about 6 inches of lead wire (red / black).

I'll call Applied tomorrow to ask - but I'll inquire here as well:

How do I attach this new sensor? Crimp it to the existing (cut) wires? Twist and solder it under some heat shrink? Ugh.

Steve W
1973 23'
Southern California





Steve W 1973 : 23' Southern California
Re: [GMCnet] A Question for DigiPanel Experts [message #317891 is a reply to message #317890] Tue, 23 May 2017 04:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
Senior Member
Steve,

IIRC again!

The wire is a very small gauge and when I replaced on e that was damaged I
twisted, soldered and shrink tubed the connection. BTW Harbor Freight sells
short sections of marine shrink tube that ooze "stuff" when shrunk. I assume
this seals the connection and prevents corrosion.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve
Weinstock
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 3:31 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] A Question for DigiPanel Experts

Thanks Rob -

That does make sense...

The part from JimK is the copper piece that goes under a bolt head and about
6 inches of lead wire (red / black).

I'll call Applied tomorrow to ask - but I'll inquire here as well:

How do I attach this new sensor? Crimp it to the existing (cut) wires?
Twist and solder it under some heat shrink? Ugh.

Steve W
1973 23'
Southern California





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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: A Question for DigiPanel Experts [message #317893 is a reply to message #317884] Tue, 23 May 2017 05:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RF_Burns is currently offline  RF_Burns   Canada
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I've haven't pulled a sensor apart, but from posted photos I believe its an active thermal sensor rather than a passive thermistor. Something like this product here from MicroChip.

http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/en022289




Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
Re: A Question for DigiPanel Experts [message #317896 is a reply to message #317893] Tue, 23 May 2017 07:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
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RF_Burns wrote on Tue, 23 May 2017 06:54
I've haven't pulled a sensor apart, but from posted photos I believe its an active thermal sensor rather than a passive thermistor. Something like this product here from MicroChip.

http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/en022289

I don't know Bruce, they are on two wires. To count on the screw head that they clamped under as a signal ground is really iffy. Not that people don't do iffy things, but if it is a chip, I'm going to go back and remove about 30 feet of wire than I have rolled up.

Matt


Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: A Question for DigiPanel Experts [message #317900 is a reply to message #317884] Tue, 23 May 2017 07:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jhbridges is currently offline  jhbridges   United States
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Twist and solder and heat shrink. The 'goo' is a glue which keeps water out if you obtain glued shrink. It isn't an 'active' sensor, there's no power lead. Plus, the accuracy needed in this circumstance is easily met by a thermistor which is the least expensive way to do it. You'd need a look at the schematic top confirm the exact setup, and the maker may consider it confidential. I'm too lazy to draw one of mine but at a glance it looks fairly standard logic, amps, and display drivers.

--johnny


Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
Re: [GMCnet] A Question for DigiPanel Experts [message #317903 is a reply to message #317900] Tue, 23 May 2017 08:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr ERFisher is currently offline  Mr ERFisher   United States
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Read here
http://gmcmotorhome.info/chassis.html#digi



On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 5:58 AM Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:

> Twist and solder and heat shrink. The 'goo' is a glue which keeps water
> out if you obtain glued shrink. It isn't an 'active' sensor, there's no
> power lead. Plus, the accuracy needed in this circumstance is easily met
> by a thermistor which is the least expensive way to do it. You'd need a
> look
> at the schematic top confirm the exact setup, and the maker may consider
> it confidential. I'm too lazy to draw one of mine but at a glance it looks
> fairly standard logic, amps, and display drivers.
>
> --johnny
> --
> 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> "I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
> in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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Re: A Question for DigiPanel Experts [message #317925 is a reply to message #317884] Tue, 23 May 2017 15:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RF_Burns is currently offline  RF_Burns   Canada
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That's where I saw it, on Gen's site. If you look at the bottom of Gene's page you will see it and if you enlarge and squint right, its a Motorola MTS102. Looking up the data sheet, its basically a transistor with the base connected to the collector. The forward voltage drop through the Base-Emitter PN junction varies with temperature. I'm sure since they have sold off just about every division, Motorola doesn't make these anymore, but someone else likely does.

http://gmcmotorhome.info/chassis.html#digi

Datasheet
http://www.datasheetlib.com/datasheet/984565/mts102_motorola-semiconductor.html

Some application data
http://www.ti.com/lit/an/sboa019/sboa019.pdf


Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
Re: A Question for DigiPanel Experts [message #317927 is a reply to message #317884] Tue, 23 May 2017 15:34 Go to previous message
SteveW is currently offline  SteveW   United States
Messages: 538
Registered: June 2005
Location: Southern California - Ora...
Karma: 1
Senior Member
P.e.r.f.e.c.t.

Thank you Rob, Matt, Johnny, Gene, Bruce, and the PM responders.

What a wonderful place we have here.

Steve W
1973 23'
Southern California



Steve W 1973 : 23' Southern California
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