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| The transmission follies [message #317628] |
Tue, 16 May 2017 16:48  |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Manny rebuilt the failed transmission at Ken Henderson's place, I picked it up Monday and got it under the coach and lined up. George Zhookoff came up this afternoon to help. With Ken's lifting tool which allows you to lift the transmission up with a chain fall on the gantry and get it in place on the final drive and the engine. Sounds simple, got a lift on the engine and another on the trans. Got it hooked to the final drive and the splines mated. Spent more than an hour trying to figure out why it wouldn't lift into place properly. Tried EVERYthing. Finally on one lower of the entire assembly I got a look in the gap between the two assemblies. A note to the neophytes - and remember, neither of us has put one in before I removed mine though - If you put the lower bolt in Ken's tool just a bit too far forward, it will catch on the block skirt and you may yank and pry and jack and curse... but it ain't gonna go. Since we had the final drive bolted up, and a lifting strap under the engine, we removed the lifting tool. Fifteen minutes to jack the whole thing into place and bolt it up.
George: THANKYOUthankyouTHANKYOUthankyou!!!
Would I do it again? For Georgie, certainly. For Manny or Ken, anytime. Beyond that, I'd admire to superintend and do the two handed part. Should have taken an hour and a half, we spent the afternoon. Now, I have to sort the cooling, and reconnect everything, and replace all the fasteners with new hardware. Time consuming true, but one handed and easy. Ten bux at the Bolt Room at Coker Equipment locally for bolts and washers, probably fifty or so for new lines and fittings.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] The transmission follies [message #317643 is a reply to message #317628] |
Tue, 16 May 2017 18:01  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Johnny,
Congratulations on your success!
Just to clarify the procedure for other novices: It's very important to
engage the two alignment studs at the rear of the engine FIRST. A couple
of the 3/8-16x1-1/2 bolts just lightly through the bell housing into the
engine will prevent the studs from disengaging from the
transmission&bellhousing while you maneuver the final drive and install its
gasket. My lifting tool can't interfere if that sequence is followed.
Ken H.
On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 5:48 PM, Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Manny rebuilt the failed transmission at Ken Henderson's place, I picked
> it up Monday and got it under the coach and lined up. George Zhookoff came
> up this afternoon to help. With Ken's lifting tool which allows you to
> lift the transmission up with a chain fall on the gantry and get it in place
> on the final drive and the engine. Sounds simple, got a lift on the
> engine and another on the trans. Got it hooked to the final drive and the
> splines mated. Spent more than an hour trying to figure out why it
> wouldn't lift into place properly. Tried EVERYthing. Finally on one lower
> of the
> entire assembly I got a look in the gap between the two assemblies. A
> note to the neophytes - and remember, neither of us has put one in before I
> removed mine though - If you put the lower bolt in Ken's tool just a bit
> too far forward, it will catch on the block skirt and you may yank and pry
> and jack and curse... but it ain't gonna go. Since we had the final drive
> bolted up, and a lifting strap under the engine, we removed the lifting
> tool. Fifteen minutes to jack the whole thing into place and bolt it up.
>
> George: THANKYOUthankyouTHANKYOUthankyou!!!
>
> Would I do it again? For Georgie, certainly. For Manny or Ken, anytime.
> Beyond that, I'd admire to superintend and do the two handed part. Should
> have taken an hour and a half, we spent the afternoon. Now, I have to
> sort the cooling, and reconnect everything, and replace all the fasteners
> with
> new hardware. Time consuming true, but one handed and easy. Ten bux at
> the Bolt Room at Coker Equipment locally for bolts and washers, probably
> fifty or so for new lines and fittings.
>
> --johnny
> --
> 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> "I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
> in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] The transmission follies [message #317679 is a reply to message #317643] |
Wed, 17 May 2017 09:15 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
I may have missed it, but is there a written procedure on how to use the lifting tool?
JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion
Michigan
> On May 16, 2017, at 7:01 PM, Ken Henderson wrote:
>
> Johnny,
>
> Congratulations on your success!
>
> Just to clarify the procedure for other novices: It's very important to
> engage the two alignment studs at the rear of the engine FIRST. A couple
> of the 3/8-16x1-1/2 bolts just lightly through the bell housing into the
> engine will prevent the studs from disengaging from the
> transmission&bellhousing while you maneuver the final drive and install its
> gasket. My lifting tool can't interfere if that sequence is followed.
>
> Ken H.
>
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] The transmission follies [message #317697 is a reply to message #317679] |
Wed, 17 May 2017 14:56 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Nope, not much to tell: Just remove the top left bolt from the rear motor
mount, and the bell housing bolt below the left alignment pin. Slide the
lower lifting device pin into the latter hole and screw a 7/16-14 bolt into
the motor mount hole. The pin and bolt are almost exclusively in shear and
are more than adequate to support the transmission.
I've rounded and removed the thread from the end of a 7/16 bolt so that it
protrudes
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: The transmission follies [message #317728 is a reply to message #317628] |
Thu, 18 May 2017 07:46 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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It's pretty obvious where and how the lift tool works, and it's close to the CG of the transmission, making it relatively easy to maneuver in limited space. If you bolt the assembly together top first, you won't shoot yourself in the foot as we did.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: The transmission follies [message #317770 is a reply to message #317628] |
Thu, 18 May 2017 15:24 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Today I'm going back through the install replacing all the bolts with new #8 hardware. And putting a bolt in the upper inner hole in the final drive. Which cost me $25 at AutoZone for a set of three half moon wrenches which neither Advance nor O'Rielly's stock. And the NAPA guy was out of stock. Hence the gouge price, I suppose. Anyhow, it's bolted up tight with a touch of blue LocTite on the fasteners. The rear support holes miss the transmission holes by a bolt width to the side. I'll loosen the front mount, line everything up and snug the fasteners, and then lock down the front mount and rear support bar.
A flush of the tank in the recored radiator was clean. I'll work out the cooling lines to it and the new outboard cooler. Manny recommended simply buying prefab brake lines and bending them to fit, using unions to join them in lieu of flareing new tubing. All cooling plumbing will be hardline.
I now have for sale two coolers with fans mounted, one DeRale and one NoName, a bill and a quarter takes them both. One's a plate, the other finned. There were some fine metal particles in the fluid and the bottom of the pan, consequently these two coolers should be carefully flushed before use.
There's a few days of removing numerous rubber lines and fittings, cleaning things up, and a few endless wires to trace and either reconnect or delete, and it will be on the road. I've even ordered ten bux of vinyl name letters to stick under the toll windows.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] The transmission follies [message #317778 is a reply to message #317770] |
Thu, 18 May 2017 20:33 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Somebody, probably me, should have told you to NOT install that upper,
inner final drive bolt. I don't know anyone who does, including,
apparently, the factory during later production. I've got a couple of
wrenches torch-modified to REMOVE them -- NOT install them.
"The rear support holes miss the transmission holes by a bolt width to the
side." Now that one baffles me!!! If you're saying the rear mounting
"plate" does not match the 3 rear-most holes in the
transmission/bellhousing, the SOMETHING is WRONG. Both of those are
precision-made parts common to all TH-425's. Unless someone has enlarged a
hole, or something, they've GOT to fit. And without all 3 of those 7/16"
bolts secured, you shouldn't drive the coach, IMHO.
Normally, with the rear motor mount lower bolts (inside the crossmember)
loosened, NOT removed, the mounting plate should pivot to the rear enough
to allow transmission installation. The right lower of the plate's 3 bolts
should then be easy to align and install. The rear bolt on my lifting
device, if modified to act as a guide pin (the one I gave you is), should
then be pretty easy to align with the top left hole (raising/lowering the
rear of the transmission will be necessary). The upper right bolt should
then "drop" in place. Tighten both the right bolts, remove the lifting
device, and install the upper left bolt. NO opportunity for any
misalignment of an unmodified rear motor mount. Don't forget to re-tighten
the lower motor mount bolts.
Ken H.
On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 4:24 PM, Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Today I'm going back through the install replacing all the bolts with new
> #8 hardware. And putting a bolt in the upper inner hole in the final drive.
> Which cost me $25 at AutoZone for a set of three half moon wrenches which
> neither Advance nor O'Rielly's stock. And the NAPA guy was out of stock.
> Hence the gouge price, I suppose. Anyhow, it's bolted up tight with a
> touch of blue LocTite on the fasteners. The rear support holes miss the
> transmission holes by a bolt width to the side. I'll loosen the front
> mount, line everything up and snug the fasteners, and then lock down the
> front
> mount and rear support bar.
> A flush of the tank in the recored radiator was clean. I'll work out
> the cooling lines to it and the new outboard cooler. Manny recommended
> simply
> buying prefab brake lines and bending them to fit, using unions to join
> them in lieu of flareing new tubing. All cooling plumbing will be hardline.
> I now have for sale two coolers with fans mounted, one DeRale and one
> NoName, a bill and a quarter takes them both. One's a plate, the other
> finned. There were some fine metal particles in the fluid and the bottom
> of the pan, consequently these two coolers should be carefully flushed
> before use.
> There's a few days of removing numerous rubber lines and fittings,
> cleaning things up, and a few endless wires to trace and either reconnect or
> delete, and it will be on the road. I've even ordered ten bux of vinyl
> name letters to stick under the toll windows.
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: The transmission follies [message #317787 is a reply to message #317628] |
Fri, 19 May 2017 08:12 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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I expect that in the process of trying to align stuff with the tool bolt in the way we probably moved the front mount a bit. The rear plate tilts easily, it's no problem to lift the engine such that the hols in it are level with the holes in the bellhousing, the plate holes are simply the width of a bolt off toward the passenger side. In that the transmission is correctly pulled up to both the engine and final drive, and in that I don't think it's possible to bend either, the remaining poit of shift is the front mount. As to the center plate bole, I cut a hole in the step to allow access when the transmission came out. It will go back the same way. I suspect there are three bolts there because they're necessary.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: The transmission follies [message #317801 is a reply to message #317628] |
Fri, 19 May 2017 18:19 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Well, I'm snakebit with the damn thing. Loosened the front mount bolts - which had scuff marks from moving. Plate lined up nicely on the passenger side, I set a bolt and left it a couple of turns loose to allow alignment of the other holes. Lifted the engine gently till the driver's side outer hole lined up with the bellhousing hole. Started the bolt in, the hole's crossthreaded! Fortunately, it's open and threaded through the bellhousing and I have a thread chaser I'll run through it from the front tomorrow. And then try again. Maybe I should of bought that GM bus....
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: The transmission follies [message #318782 is a reply to message #317628] |
Fri, 09 June 2017 17:57 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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So, new bolts, thread chaser through the hole, more blue LokTite<tm> the thing is bolted up snug everywhere. Two tries and the correct O-ring on the dipstick tube, Two six foot sections of steel brake line and one eight inch section, a union and two adapters for the radiator cooler. Six foot pipe bent and fitted like a charm. Correct offset and the other one fitted to the trans. Eight inch section properly bent around the lower radiator hose, just right to mate up with the six footer.... and I crimped the last bend. Sigh. I'll pick up another six foot section in the morning and match the bends in this one since it fits well. And make the last 90 gently so it doesn't crimp. Gotta go back to Advance to pick up the last adapter anyway. Experience is directly proportional to busted equipment. But, the coach will have the trans cooler plumbed in harline properly instead of the mess that was under there. I was going to count clamps and hose unions but I gave up at ten. It may explode, but it ain't gonna leak.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] The transmission follies [message #318786 is a reply to message #318782] |
Fri, 09 June 2017 18:13 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Johnny,
I feel for you, having done the same plumbing when I installed the Cad.
I'm sure mine's not as neat as yours -- but it works.
Ken H.
On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 6:57 PM, Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> So, new bolts, thread chaser through the hole, more blue LokTite the
> thing is bolted up snug everywhere. Two tries and the correct O-ring on the
> dipstick tube, Two six foot sections of steel brake line and one eight
> inch section, a union and two adapters for the radiator cooler. Six foot
> pipe
> bent and fitted like a charm. Correct offset and the other one fitted to
> the trans. Eight inch section properly bent around the lower radiator hose,
> just right to mate up with the six footer.... and I crimped the last
> bend. Sigh. I'll pick up another six foot section in the morning and
> match the
> bends in this one since it fits well. And make the last 90 gently so it
> doesn't crimp. Gotta go back to Advance to pick up the last adapter anyway.
> Experience is directly proportional to busted equipment. But, the coach
> will have the trans cooler plumbed in harline properly instead of the mess
> that was under there. I was going to count clamps and hose unions but I
> gave up at ten. It may explode, but it ain't gonna leak.
>
> --johnny
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: The transmission follies [message #318951 is a reply to message #317628] |
Tue, 13 June 2017 17:28 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Called Manny for first startup information. "Put two gallons of fluid in it, start it and run it a minute or two to fill the converter, add the third gallon, leak check it, test drive, and check level and set per removing the modulator." I got twenty seconds into the run it a minute and the line from the throttle body to the pressure regulator failed. spraying gas out of a two inch split. If it's no good, I can't trust the one from the pump to the TB, I'll replace them both in the morning. Fired right up though, it ought to go just fine.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: The transmission follies [message #318981 is a reply to message #317628] |
Wed, 14 June 2017 10:42 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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The whole pressure system (MSD injection) is plumber in Aeroquip R6 hose. All cracking, so I picked up fifteen feet of J30R9 injection hose suitable for alcohol laced gas, and "Meets low penetration requirements per CARB executive order....". So, I suppose I could drive it back to CA if I were so motivated. However, this will preclude testing the FireFight bottle in the engine compartment. I hope.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: The transmission follies [message #318997 is a reply to message #317628] |
Wed, 14 June 2017 12:35 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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"Master, in what way might one earn Johnny's lasting enmity?"
"Grasshopper, it is simple. One need only attach something permanently to his coach with a self drilling screw and he will curse you to the Emperor forever."
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: The transmission follies [message #320593 is a reply to message #317628] |
Mon, 17 July 2017 12:52 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Nothing happens fast around here - and I don't need the coach till the 26th of July. And it's been hot as the hinges of hell. So I have been doing inside work - pulled a busted cabinet, cleaned it out, sorted tools into takers and leave homers, etc. This morning, leveled it front to back and side to side with my big carpenter's level on the floor, got it to three gallons and a quart. Fired it up and ran it till the water temp stabilized at 180. Shifted through all the possibilities and noted it caught at each. I pulled the modulator with it hot - not a fun endeavor - with a pan under and got a trickle of fluid, indicating it's full. On the dipstick, just above the ADD ONE PINT line. The distance to the FULL line looks about the same is the distance on the dipstick tube into the final drive between the ridge and the housing, indicating it is in fact full of fluid. It may be a bit over but I doubt much. I'll run it up to the gas station and down to the propane store in the morning, and if all goes well consider it healed.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: The transmission follies [message #320655 is a reply to message #317628] |
Tue, 18 July 2017 13:08 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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A test run through the hills today shows it works as it should. No slip, no undue noise, no noticeable leaks, ain't oveerheating. I consider it healed unles/until I do something stupid and bust it. 40 miles or so tomorrow for propane, given good results we will head out to Greenville SC and Salem VA in a week and change.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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but it's all in there and it ain't gonna leak. I'll sopend an hour in the morning bracketing the lines in a couple of places to keep them from rattling or getting close to the headers. Best 17 bux I've spent in a couple of years was for the heathen chinee tubing bender. None of the bends cold have been done by hand. I could probably squeeze the crimp to open it, I may try. But the option is another piece of tubing matching this one.