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| Bumps felt through Steering Wheel [message #308884] |
Mon, 17 October 2016 12:34  |
Bill Van Vlack
Messages: 419
Registered: September 2015
Location: Guemes Island, Washington
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Driving down the road at 60 or so, I find myself correcting left and right due to - I think - tramlining since it tends to go away on smooth roads. But that's not the issue I'm concerned about....
When I correct back to the left, I feel bumps through the steering wheel while the wheel is held steady - meaning that there are no bumps when turning the wheel, but bumps when the wheel is held with the wheels pointed slightly left. Something like 10 bumps with the wheel held left for 2-3 seconds. Once in a while I think I notice a bump or two when steering to the right as well, but I can't be certain.
Prior to noticing this (although it may have been there since we acquired the coach a year ago), I'd corrected the lower steering column/steering box angle, cleaned and re-lubed the balls in the lower steering column CV joint (in place, didn't remove the balls), replaced the front calipers with 80mm (including grinding to fit), replaced the relay arm and drag link, and aligned toe-in to zero.
What could be causing this?
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid November 2015.
[Updated on: Mon, 17 October 2016 12:35] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bump felt through Steering Wheel [message #308886 is a reply to message #308884] |
Mon, 17 October 2016 12:38  |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
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to rule out a tire/wheel issue you could rotate the tires in front with a
couple of the rears and see if the "bump" changes or goes away.
Sully
77 eleganza 2
Seattle
On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 10:34 AM, Bill Van Vlack
wrote:
> Driving down the road at 60 or so, I find myself correcting left and right
> due to - I think - tramlining since it tends to go away on smooth roads.
> But that's not the issue I'm concerned about....
>
> When I correct back to the left, I feel bumps through the steering wheel
> while the wheel is held steady - meaning that there are no bumps when
> turning
> the wheel, but bumps when the wheel is held with the wheels pointed
> slightly left. Something like 10 bumps with the wheel held left for 2-3
> seconds.
> Once in a while I think I notice a bump or two when steering to the right
> as well, but I can't be certain.
>
> Prior to noticing this (although it may have been there since we acquired
> the coach a year ago), I'd corrected the lower steering column/steering box
> angle, cleaned and re-lubed the balls in the lower steering column CV
> joint (in place, didn't remove the balls), replaced the front calipers with
> 80mm
> (including grinding to fit), replaced the relay arm and drag link, and
> aligned toe-in to zero.
>
> What can be causing this?
> --
> Bill Van Vlack
> '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath,
> Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o
> mid
> November 2015; Since arrival: New HVAC blower, heat flap cable, headlight
> switch.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: Bumps felt through Steering Wheel [message #308887 is a reply to message #308884] |
Mon, 17 October 2016 12:46 |
77Royale
Messages: 461
Registered: June 2014
Location: Mid Michigan
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Agree with Sully. swap the driver side front wheel first and test drive. That my narrow it down to a wheel / tire out of balance.
77 Royale, Rear Dry Bath. 403, 3.55 Final Drive, Lenzi goodies, Patterson carb and dizzy.
Mid Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bump felt through Steering Wheel [message #308888 is a reply to message #308884] |
Mon, 17 October 2016 12:50 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Bill,
Have you tried making tight turns, especially to the left, in a large
parking lot? You want almost full lock, but not quite, turns. If you feel
roughness similar to your "bumps", I'd suspect worn CV joints, especially
the left one.
As for the "tramlining", which I assume is your term for what we here
generally call "rut following", you should consider "true-tracks" on the
center wheels. If you're not familiar with them, they're cam followers
(large caged roller/ball bearings) mounted on the rear of the suspension
arms. Those run in vertical tracks attached to the frame rails so that the
suspension arms are constrained from lateral movement. Without those, the
best description I know for the center wheels is that they act like
one-handled wheelbarrows. The true tracks are the best single thing I've
done to my GMC's handling during 18 years of doing 'most everything.
HTH,
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, etc., etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 1:34 PM, Bill Van Vlack
wrote:
> Driving down the road at 60 or so, I find myself correcting left and right
> due to - I think - tramlining since it tends to go away on smooth roads.
> But that's not the issue I'm concerned about....
>
> When I correct back to the left, I feel bumps through the steering wheel
> while the wheel is held steady - meaning that there are no bumps when
> turning
> the wheel, but bumps when the wheel is held with the wheels pointed
> slightly left. Something like 10 bumps with the wheel held left for 2-3
> seconds.
> Once in a while I think I notice a bump or two when steering to the right
> as well, but I can't be certain.
>
> Prior to noticing this (although it may have been there since we acquired
> the coach a year ago), I'd corrected the lower steering column/steering box
> angle, cleaned and re-lubed the balls in the lower steering column CV
> joint (in place, didn't remove the balls), replaced the front calipers with
> 80mm
> (including grinding to fit), replaced the relay arm and drag link, and
> aligned toe-in to zero.
>
> What can be causing this?
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bump felt through Steering Wheel [message #308893 is a reply to message #308888] |
Mon, 17 October 2016 13:32 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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Cupped tires on the front, worn out or dry and dusty CV joints, loose CV axle bolts at the final drive connection, and loose/dry wheel bearings. These all apply if the vehicle is moving when steering. If it is not moving, check the relay arm for freedom of swing and the rest of the suspension joints per the Rob Mueller method that can be found on this forum with several search terms. Be careful when sticking fingers into the joints because there is always the possibility of metal shards under the dust boot.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bump felt through Steering Wheel [message #308896 is a reply to message #308888] |
Mon, 17 October 2016 13:55 |
Bill Van Vlack
Messages: 419
Registered: September 2015
Location: Guemes Island, Washington
Karma: 14
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Thanks for the suggestions...
I'm not sure how a bad tire/wheel would present 'bumps' only when holding the steering wheel to the left but not when going straight down the road.
I'm surprised that feeling the roughness when turning left would point to the left (drivers side) components. I would have thought that the PS CV joint or tire/wheel would be the one under more load and therefore transmit roughness. Assuming it's a CV joint, what is the progression of symptoms?
By the way, the 'bumps' are much slower than if they were generated at each rotation of the tire/wheel. 60mph = 88fps. Say wheel is 8' in circumference for calculation simplicity; that would mean 11 rotations(bumps) per second. 'Bump' is 2-3 per second. FWIW.
Had a chance to buy a used 'true-track' at a swap meet last week and passed it up. Should have grabbed it!
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid November 2015.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bumps felt through Steering Wheel [message #308900 is a reply to message #308887] |
Mon, 17 October 2016 14:16 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
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The "bump" could be a lot of things. Swapping wheels is a quick and easy
way to rule out a wheel or tire problem. I suspect as Ken mentioned a
driveshaft issue but the wheel swap might isolate a tire with belt damage.
Tires with belt or cord damage can have some strange symptoms.
Sully
77 eleganza 2
Seattle
On Monday, October 17, 2016, Wayne Rogewski wrote:
> Agree with Sully. swap the driver side front wheel first and test drive.
> That my narrow it down to a wheel / tire out of balance.
> --
> 77 Royale, Rear Dry Bath. 403, 3.55 Final Drive, Lenzi goodies, Patterson
> carb and dizzy.
> Mid Michigan
>
> _______________________________________________
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bumps felt through Steering Wheel [message #308901 is a reply to message #308900] |
Mon, 17 October 2016 14:43 |
Bill Van Vlack
Messages: 419
Registered: September 2015
Location: Guemes Island, Washington
Karma: 14
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sgltrac wrote on Mon, 17 October 2016 14:16The "bump" could be a lot of things. Swapping wheels is a quick and easy
way to rule out a wheel or tire problem. I suspect as Ken mentioned a
driveshaft issue but the wheel swap might isolate a tire with belt damage.
Tires with belt or cord damage can have some strange symptoms.
Forgot to mention, new Michelins and used wheels recently, FWIW. No bumps while moving wheel, just when holding to left; no bumps moving or holding to right that I've been able to feel. Swap DS or PS tires/wheels? Or both, one side at a time? Question is really which side is likely to have the problem given bumps only happen holding to left?
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid November 2015.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bumps felt through Steering Wheel [message #308905 is a reply to message #308901] |
Mon, 17 October 2016 15:19 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
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To rule out front wheels and tires I would remove both of them and switch
with either of the rears. Mark them if you want to remember where you
started. If the bump stays unchanged with the wheel swap next spot to check
is probably the driveshafts as others have mentioned. Is it a noise or a
noise and a tugging in the wheel? Noise and tugging while turned likely a
driveshaft. Does the noise or bump change depending on whether you are
loaded or not? Try the same turning operation driving like normal then try
it in neutral while coasting and see what you get.
Sully
On Monday, October 17, 2016, Bill Van Vlack
wrote:
> sgltrac wrote on Mon, 17 October 2016 14:16
>> The "bump" could be a lot of things. Swapping wheels is a quick and easy
>> way to rule out a wheel or tire problem. I suspect as Ken mentioned a
>> driveshaft issue but the wheel swap might isolate a tire with belt
> damage.
>> Tires with belt or cord damage can have some strange symptoms.
>
>
> Forgot to mention, new Michelins and used wheels recently, FWIW. No bumps
> while moving wheel, just when holding to left; no bumps moving or holding to
> right that I've been able to feel. Swap DS or PS tires/wheels? Or both,
> one side at a time? Question is really which side is likely to have the
> problem given bumps only happen holding to left?
>
> --
> Bill Van Vlack
> '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath,
> Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o
> mid
> November 2015; Since arrival: New HVAC blower, heat flap cable, headlight
> switch.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bumps felt through Steering Wheel [message #308907 is a reply to message #308905] |
Mon, 17 October 2016 15:53 |
Bill Van Vlack
Messages: 419
Registered: September 2015
Location: Guemes Island, Washington
Karma: 14
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sgltrac wrote on Mon, 17 October 2016 15:19To rule out front wheels and tires I would remove both of them and switch
with either of the rears. Mark them if you want to remember where you
started. If the bump stays unchanged with the wheel swap next spot to check
is probably the driveshafts as others have mentioned. Is it a noise or a
noise and a tugging in the wheel? Noise and tugging while turned likely a
driveshaft. Does the noise or bump change depending on whether you are
loaded or not? Try the same turning operation driving like normal then try
it in neutral while coasting and see what you get.
No noise, just a 'bump' - maybe a 'tug'. 2-3 per second holding the wheel slightly to the left at 60mph, correcting from 'wiggle'. No bump while moving the wheel the few degrees to correct, just when I stop moving it and hold it to continue the correction. Stops when I move the wheel back to straight ahead, and does not 'bump' while steering straight ahead. No 'bump' when I turn or hold the wheel to the right.
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid November 2015.
[Updated on: Mon, 17 October 2016 15:56] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bumps felt through Steering Wheel [message #308913 is a reply to message #308907] |
Mon, 17 October 2016 16:21 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
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It could be a bearing in the outer CB joint. Especially if it doesn't occur when pointing straight ahead.
Emery Stora
> On Oct 17, 2016, at 2:53 PM, Bill Van Vlack wrote:
>
> sgltrac wrote on Mon, 17 October 2016 15:19
>> To rule out front wheels and tires I would remove both of them and switch
>> with either of the rears. Mark them if you want to remember where you
>> started. If the bump stays unchanged with the wheel swap next spot to check
>> is probably the driveshafts as others have mentioned. Is it a noise or a
>> noise and a tugging in the wheel? Noise and tugging while turned likely a
>> driveshaft. Does the noise or bump change depending on whether you are
>> loaded or not? Try the same turning operation driving like normal then try
>> it in neutral while coasting and see what you get.
>
>
> No noise, just a 'bump' - maybe a 'tug'. 2-3 per second holding the wheel slightly to the left at 60mph, correcting from 'wiggle'. No bump while
> moving the wheel the few degrees to correct, just when I stop moving it and hold it to continue the correction. Stops when I return wheel to straight
> ahead.
> --
> Bill Van Vlack
> '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
> November 2015; Since arrival: New HVAC blower, heat flap cable, headlight switch.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bumps felt through Steering Wheel [message #308921 is a reply to message #308913] |
Mon, 17 October 2016 18:27 |
Bill Van Vlack
Messages: 419
Registered: September 2015
Location: Guemes Island, Washington
Karma: 14
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emerystora wrote on Mon, 17 October 2016 16:21It could be a bearing in the outer CB joint. Especially if it doesn't occur when pointing straight ahead.
Bumps when turning left.... I'm guessing the passenger side CV joint?
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid November 2015.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bumps felt through Steering Wheel [message #308925 is a reply to message #308913] |
Mon, 17 October 2016 18:36 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
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Also, double check the drivers side retaining bolts on the final drive
flange. They are known to loosen up and the symptoms are as you have
described.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Oct 17, 2016 2:22 PM, "Emery Stora" wrote:
> It could be a bearing in the outer CB joint. Especially if it doesn't
> occur when pointing straight ahead.
>
> Emery Stora
>
>> On Oct 17, 2016, at 2:53 PM, Bill Van Vlack
> wrote:
>>
>> sgltrac wrote on Mon, 17 October 2016 15:19
>>> To rule out front wheels and tires I would remove both of them and
> switch
>>> with either of the rears. Mark them if you want to remember where you
>>> started. If the bump stays unchanged with the wheel swap next spot to
> check
>>> is probably the driveshafts as others have mentioned. Is it a noise or a
>>> noise and a tugging in the wheel? Noise and tugging while turned likely
> a
>>> driveshaft. Does the noise or bump change depending on whether you are
>>> loaded or not? Try the same turning operation driving like normal then
> try
>>> it in neutral while coasting and see what you get.
>>
>>
>> No noise, just a 'bump' - maybe a 'tug'. 2-3 per second holding the
> wheel slightly to the left at 60mph, correcting from 'wiggle'. No bump while
>> moving the wheel the few degrees to correct, just when I stop moving it
> and hold it to continue the correction. Stops when I return wheel to
> straight
>> ahead.
>> --
>> Bill Van Vlack
>> '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath,
> Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o
> mid
>> November 2015; Since arrival: New HVAC blower, heat flap cable,
> headlight switch.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bump felt through Steering Wheel [message #308927 is a reply to message #308884] |
Mon, 17 October 2016 18:45 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Bill,
You can check the whole steering system end to end using this procedure:
http://www.gmceast.com/technical/Mueller_Steering_Inspection_Guide.pdf
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Bill Van Vlack
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 4:34 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Bump felt through Steering Wheel
Driving down the road at 60 or so, I find myself correcting left and right due to - I think - tramlining since it tends to go away
on smooth roads.
But that's not the issue I'm concerned about....
When I correct back to the left, I feel bumps through the steering wheel while the wheel is held steady - meaning that there are no
bumps when turning
the wheel, but bumps when the wheel is held with the wheels pointed slightly left. Something like 10 bumps with the wheel held left
for 2-3 seconds.
Once in a while I think I notice a bump or two when steering to the right as well, but I can't be certain.
Prior to noticing this (although it may have been there since we acquired the coach a year ago), I'd corrected the lower steering
column/steering box
angle, cleaned and re-lubed the balls in the lower steering column CV joint (in place, didn't remove the balls), replaced the front
calipers with 80mm
(including grinding to fit), replaced the relay arm and drag link, and aligned toe-in to zero.
What can be causing this?
--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator;
new owner a/o mid
November 2015; Since arrival: New HVAC blower, heat flap cable, headlight switch.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bump felt through Steering Wheel [message #308932 is a reply to message #308927] |
Mon, 17 October 2016 19:27 |
Bill Van Vlack
Messages: 419
Registered: September 2015
Location: Guemes Island, Washington
Karma: 14
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Senior Member |
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Thanks, Jim!
I'll check them first. A few months ago I followed Rob's procedure (Thanks, Rob) and found a bad relay arm and drag link which I replaced. We haven't traveled on interstates since I bought the coach last year and just noticed this 'bumping' on the recent trip down and back from Coos Bay, but it may have always been there - or masked by the bad parts.
USAussie wrote on Mon, 17 October 2016 18:45Bill,
You can check the whole steering system end to end using this procedure:
http://www.gmceast.com/technical/Mueller_Steering_Inspection_Guide.pdf
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid November 2015.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bump felt through Steering Wheel [message #309031 is a reply to message #308884] |
Wed, 19 October 2016 00:48 |
kelvin
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2004
Location: Eugene, OR
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 10/17/2016 10:34 AM, Bill Van Vlack wrote:
> Driving down the road at 60 or so, I find myself correcting left and right due to - I think - tramlining since it tends to go away on smooth roads.
> But that's not the issue I'm concerned about....
>
> When I correct back to the left, I feel bumps through the steering wheel while the wheel is held steady - meaning that there are no bumps when turning
> the wheel, but bumps when the wheel is held with the wheels pointed slightly left. Something like 10 bumps with the wheel held left for 2-3 seconds.
> Once in a while I think I notice a bump or two when steering to the right as well, but I can't be certain.
>
> Prior to noticing this (although it may have been there since we acquired the coach a year ago), I'd corrected the lower steering column/steering box
> angle, cleaned and re-lubed the balls in the lower steering column CV joint (in place, didn't remove the balls), replaced the front calipers with 80mm
> (including grinding to fit), replaced the relay arm and drag link, and aligned toe-in to zero.
>
> What can be causing this?
Did that "blue" shaft got cleaned and lubed while you were doing the
Lower Steering Shaft rework? Steering box is tied to the frame.
Steering column (and wheel) is tied to the body. That splined shaft is
the only real interface that moves between the two and if it gets stuck
and it can do what you're describing. Maybe worse if slightly off-center.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/miscellaneous/p8623.html
This happened to me. Might not be the same thing you're experiencing
but just throwing it out there.
Kelvin
'73 23' in Eugene, OR
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bump felt through Steering Wheel [message #309033 is a reply to message #309031] |
Wed, 19 October 2016 01:20 |
Bill Van Vlack
Messages: 419
Registered: September 2015
Location: Guemes Island, Washington
Karma: 14
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Senior Member |
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Kelvin,
It certainly slipped in and out easily; just a little suction. Don't remember adding grease, but the grease it had seemed in good shape. No apparent wear to the blue coating.
The bumps were present when the wheel was held steady while the wheels were turning to the left; no bumps while the steering wheel was moving from straight to slightly left. Makes me think that something's loose rather than binding. I want to double check the shaft/box angle at some point, so I'll check it again. I think I used lithium sailboat winch grease for the sliding shaft and moly for the CV balls.
Lots of great suggestions; thanks all and keep 'em coming!
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid November 2015.
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