Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » New (to me) 76 Eleganza with fuel issue (Fuel)
| New (to me) 76 Eleganza with fuel issue [message #307753] |
Sat, 24 September 2016 17:31  |
Palmerdad
Messages: 60
Registered: August 2016
Location: Traverse City
Karma: 0
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I bought an Eleganza a month ago that needs interior work but is pretty mechanically sound (po did a lot of work). One of the things he had done was the fuel tanks cleaned and replacement fuel senders put in. The replacements don't seem to work worth a darn. The fuel level stayed full forever and then dropped fast. The aux one seemed to always be a bit lower than the main one as well.
I wanted to run out the old fuel and fill it with ethanol free gas before winter. I read up on the 5 gallon "low fuel" warning light on the main tank and then the 7 to 9 gallons that should be left in the Aux tank once the main was empty. I ran it until the light came on and took note of the mileage expecting to get another 40 or 50 miles at best. I also switched to the aux tank at one point and noted that the low fuel light came back on for this tank as well. 72 miles after the main tank's light came on I started sputtering. I switched to the aux tank which restored power for about 50 yards and then started to choke out too. I pulled off the road and tried to restart on either tank. No luck. I put in the 5 gallons of ethanol free fuel that I had been carrying just in case. She started up and ran the few miles home (on either tank) with no problems.
What would you say the problem is? I'm guessing something got installed wrong by the PO? What would you check?
-James Palmer, Traverse City, MI
1976 Eleganza
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| Re: New (to me) 76 Eleganza with fuel issue [message #307754 is a reply to message #307753] |
Sat, 24 September 2016 17:47  |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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I'd check the fuel lines for correct hookup - each tank to an input of the selector valve, and the valve actually switching tank to tank.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: New (to me) 76 Eleganza with fuel issue [message #307757 is a reply to message #307753] |
Sat, 24 September 2016 19:25 |
Palmerdad
Messages: 60
Registered: August 2016
Location: Traverse City
Karma: 0
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Should a defective selector valve be replaced or could it just be left and used as is? I guess I'm wondering if there would be any other adverse issues beyond the ability to switch and use the tanks as designed?
-James Palmer, Traverse City, MI
1976 Eleganza
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| Re: [GMCnet] New (to me) 76 Eleganza with fuel issue [message #307765 is a reply to message #307758] |
Sat, 24 September 2016 20:59 |
bdub
Messages: 1578
Registered: February 2004
Location: Central Texas
Karma: 5
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Or, you could get a low pressure electric fuel pump and power it with the
wire from the selector valve.
Bypass the selector valve with the hose from the rear tank, place a check
valve prior a tee, then on to the feed line.
Take the hose from the front tank off the selector valve, run it directly
to input side of electric pump.
Run hose from pump output to the tee.
The advantage to this is to have a backup plan for the inevitable vapor
lock situation. At the first hint of vapor lock, hit your Auxiliary Fuel
switch which now will run the electric pump, thus pressurizing the line.
No more vapor lock.
This is also a great way to push fuel to the carb before attempting to
start after it's been sitting a week or more.
bdub
On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 7:48 PM, Billy Massey wrote:
> Ya just don't have a reserve. Not that big a deal, imo.
>
> On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 7:25 PM, James Palmer wrote:
>
>> Should a defective selector valve be replaced or could it just be left
>> and used as is? I guess I'm wondering if there would be any other adverse
>> issues beyond the ability to switch and use the tanks as designed?
>>
>
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bdub
'76 Palm Beach/Central Texas
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| Re: [GMCnet] New (to me) 76 Eleganza with fuel issue [message #307769 is a reply to message #307765] |
Sat, 24 September 2016 21:42 |
Palmerdad
Messages: 60
Registered: August 2016
Location: Traverse City
Karma: 0
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That's an interesting thought. Someone had installed an electric fuel pump and a fuel filter (can't remember if it was before or after the selector valve now) but then it was unhooked from the system and just left bolted on. Which gets me thinking that the fuel filter probably hasn't had attention since who knows how long... add that to the To-Do list! There are also two non-original switches in the cab that don't seem to do anything. I'm thinking one was for some fog lights that aren't working, maybe the other was for the electric fuel pump??? Either way, I like the idea of having an electric pump in the system somewhere.
-James Palmer, Traverse City, MI
1976 Eleganza
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| Re: [GMCnet] New (to me) 76 Eleganza with fuel issue [message #307770 is a reply to message #307762] |
Sat, 24 September 2016 21:41 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
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Best of all, IMHO, is to remove the selector valve and replace it with an
online filter and a Carter 4070 electric pump for each tank. Connect their
outputs with 2 check valves and a tee. Power them with a circuit breaker
and a SPOT relay controlled by the Tank Selector Switch. Bypass the
mechanical fuel pump, remove it, and block it's mounting hole.
You'll gain pump and filter redundancy, and vapor lock protection while
eliminating a very potentially troublesome selector valve and an old
mechanical pump. At a pretty reasonable cost and difficulty.
The location of the electric pumps is open to debate. In the tanks may be
best for vapor lock protection, at the cost of difficult installation or
replacement. Immediately ahead of the forward tank is easiest, but
subjects the pumps to heat from the engine and mufflers. Outside the left
frame rail improves the cooling, at the cost of more installation
difficulty and collision damage hazard (this is my choice).
Ken H.
On Sep 24, 2016 9:43 PM, "James Palmer" wrote:
> Hadn't thought about it that way. So you're saying my reserve tank
> actually did have fuel in it today but since it started getting air from
> the main
> tank it acted as though both were empty?
>
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| Re: New (to me) 76 Eleganza with fuel issue [message #307778 is a reply to message #307760] |
Sun, 25 September 2016 08:24 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Palmerdad,
Welcome to the group, family, cult, asylum....
Yes, there is every indication that the selector valve is toast. I'm not sure if it is the alcohol that kills them or just the age. The biggest problem there is that there is no identical replacement. The only part I have found is upside down and backwards from the original. This means it has to be mounted to the underside of the floor and a ground wire added. This may be the simplest fix, but others have told you that adding pumps and moving the system is a good idea, and it is, but it is also more involved and in our climate it is less important.
The reason I like the system as built is that it allows very specific fuel management. While I do this, I may be one of the very few that regularly takes on in excess of 45 gallons (and have done several 50+) in a fill. This does take knowing your coach. At least if PO redid the fuel system, that is one thing that you have in good order.
There is little advantage to alcohol free fuel for storage, and in fact, I might advise against it. There is no getting around alcohol contaminated fuel if you travel just about anywhere. The fact that it will absorb and hold moisture is of value in storage. The thing I will advise is that you store with the tanks as full as practical. This is to keep the air space that encourages "breathing" and inhaling moisture as much as possible. Also resist starting either the coach or the generator (APU) when either won't be run long enough and hard enough to get seriously warm. The thermal cycle and moisture that are involved is damaging. If you are worried about them sitting, learn how to "fog" them from a local boat person.
Just a word here about going over the the Mackinac Bridge, Hang onto your shorts.... They charge by the vehicle height and the axle. They have no concept of the fact that the pair of tires on the rear are actually on a single axle (by SAE definitions), they are just in tandem and not dual. In numerous exchanges with the authority, they insist that the toll is "weight based". They will hear no argument and accept no reasoning, they just want our money. They seem to want to encourage tour bus operators at our expense.
Before you get much farther, please build and enable a sigfile. Go to Control Panel/Account Settings and scroll down. Fill in a real name (so when you meet other owner - and you will, they will know who you are), a short about the coach and important mods (there are year and model variations that do matter), and the geographic reference (the half that read this as e-mail didn't get the header that says "Traverse City"). This way, when you need help, we will all have a better idea where to start and someone that might be in striking range will know if he is. Remember to click "update" at the bottom.
Finding your way here, you are now a member of a rare community. These are very supportive and helping people (just in case you didn't figure that out already), and there is amazing power that can be brought to bare if you are in need. Given your location, you should look up the GMC Great Lakers chapter and try to get to a rally when you can. There my be other chapter's rallies in range, but they will probably require going around a lake or crossing into Canada. As said, this is a rare community. The only other I know of is that of the watermen that are my world. For that reason, I have taken to welcoming new owners much as a new owner of vessel would be welcomed there. So,
May the Good Lord bless this coach and all that set forth within here.
Welcome James,
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] New (to me) 76 Eleganza with fuel issue [message #307780 is a reply to message #307778] |
Sun, 25 September 2016 08:54 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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The cost of crossing the Big Mac is a fixed cost that has increased over the years since we bought our first GMC, used to be around $9 when we first started going across in 1998 with the GMC and we didn’t tow at that time and the toad would have added another $2.50. It is done by axle count, which means if there is a tire there is an axle, there is no argument, pay and drive, you pay the same as the trucks, buses and step and cube vans per axle. The cost for the GMC is $5 per axle or $15 if you're not towing and a $4 adder if you are towing for a total of $19, you don’t save anything by driving your toad separately. For those of you who have an adverse reaction to toll cost the cost is much cheaper that the drive around. I do a round trip 1 once or twice a year, because the UP is a wonderful place to see and visit.
http://www.mackinacbridge.org/fare-schedule-9/
JR Wright
Michigan
> On Sep 25, 2016, at 9:24 AM, Matt Colie wrote:
>
> Palmerdad,
>
> Welcome to the group, family, cult, asylum....
>
>
> Just a word here about going over the the Mackinac Bridge, Hang onto your shorts.... They charge by the vehicle height and the axle. They have no
> concept of the fact that the pair of tires on the rear are actually on a single axle (by SAE definitions), they are just in tandem and not dual. In
> numerous exchanges with the authority, they insist that the toll is "weight based". They will hear no argument and accept no reasoning, they just
> want our money. They seem to want to encourage tour bus operators at our expense.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> '73 Glacier 23 - Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brake with Applied Control Arms
> Now with both true Keyless and remote entry
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: New (to me) 76 Eleganza with fuel issue [message #307785 is a reply to message #307753] |
Sun, 25 September 2016 13:27 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Take Ken Henderson's advise it is a good way to go. It is the way I went with the pumps outside the frame rails vapor lock stopped happening . Also if I might add run the fuel line from the pump outputs to the carburetor from the rear of the motor rather then the front and insulate the fuel line from the pumps to the carb.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] New (to me) 76 Eleganza with fuel issue [message #307799 is a reply to message #307780] |
Sun, 25 September 2016 17:24 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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powerjon wrote on Sun, 25 September 2016 09:54The cost of crossing the Big Mac is a fixed cost that has increased over the years since we bought our first GMC, used to be around $9 when we first started going across in 1998 with the GMC and we didn't tow at that time and the toad would have added another $2.50. It is done by axle count, which means if there is a tire there is an axle, there is no argument, pay and drive, you pay the same as the trucks, buses and step and cube vans per axle. The cost for the GMC is $5 per axle or $15 if you're not towing and a $4 adder if you are towing for a total of $19, you don't save anything by driving your toad separately. For those of you who have an adverse reaction to toll cost the cost is much cheaper that the drive around. I do a round trip 1 once or twice a year, because the UP is a wonderful place to see and visit.
http://www.mackinacbridge.org/fare-schedule-9/
JR Wright
JR,
You are right, "You Pay, You Drive" and no argument is allowed. But if our coaches are 3-Axle why did anybody sue GMC for fraud? Your coach was sold with documents specifying a 160" wheel base. If it is a 3-axle vehicle, then the wheel base is 180". I realize that we are no longer a country of laws and there is no going back there now, but there were laws once that everybody was supposed to be subject to them.
It is not true for you or the OP, but if I am at the Soo, I can pay the toll at the International Bridge, go around the Lake Huron and Georgian Bay and cross back at the Ambassador Bridge and break even. The big problem here is that I hate customs at Detroit.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: New (to me) 76 Eleganza with fuel issue [message #307822 is a reply to message #307812] |
Sun, 25 September 2016 21:53 |
Palmerdad
Messages: 60
Registered: August 2016
Location: Traverse City
Karma: 0
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Member |
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I'll check out those pumps, thanks! When we picked up the GMC, my daughter and I took the Badger back from Manitowoc to Ludington. It was my first time crossing on the ferry and I would highly recommend it. Great experience.
-James Palmer, Traverse City, MI
1976 Eleganza
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