Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » 6.5 swap progress
| 6.5 swap progress [message #263848] |
Thu, 09 October 2014 13:00  |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
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I finally got started on the real work with my 6.5/4l80e swap. Collecting information and rounding up parts takes lots of time but the Grand kids even more 
Here are a few shots of the work so far. Hope it works, first try at posting photos.
Hal
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6691-6-5-engine-swap.html
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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| Re: 6.5 swap progress [message #263850 is a reply to message #263848] |
Thu, 09 October 2014 13:24  |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Thanks for the update Hal. I'm impressed!
Some questions.
1- In order to use just the front wheel portion, are you going to have to do anything to the transfer case?
2- What is the final drive ratio of the differential?
3- I think you told us earlier but are you going to do new control arm mounts and use the control arms from the 4wd?
4- Obviously, the longer tranny and transfer case is going to protrude into the coach somewhat. Have you determined how far back and how tall the new 'step' will have to be? I've been thinking about what you were planning and don't see a big issue with losing a bit of the floor space. In my case, when I'm sitting on my couch, I've got my legs up on the coach across the aisle anyway.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: 6.5 swap progress [message #263859 is a reply to message #263850] |
Thu, 09 October 2014 16:36 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
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The transfer case is a B/W unit used on later model Revcons with 454 GM engine so is a proven piece. The NP205 I sourced would have been an option also but I found this one on CL for $100. I was able to make the adapter with a piece of 1" aluminum and a little change to the original TH400 to B/W case adapter.
The differential has 3.73 gears but the B/W T Case has 1.1 to 1 gears which can be reversed easily. That translates into a 4.10 or 3.36. With the case at 4.1 and a 25% overdrive in the trans I should be at 3.08. I am running 215/85/16 tires which drops the effective ratio about 3.8% to 2.96 which should be close to ideal (I hope).
I already have the Manny one ton and I don't think I'll try playing with the geometry at all. I wouldn't mind moving the upper arm mounting points up a little but that'll have to wait.
The interior protrusion looks to be about 4" high and 20" long. I thought I could get the engine further forward but even after reworking the oil pan I was only able to pick up about an inch. It shouldn't be a problem but I had hoped for less.
Thanks for the interest, Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
[Updated on: Thu, 09 October 2014 18:03] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] 6.5 swap progress [message #263862 is a reply to message #263859] |
Thu, 09 October 2014 17:18 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1500
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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goog job, Hal. Doesn't look anything like the front frame you got from
Larry C.
On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 3:36 PM, Hal StClair
wrote:
> The transfer case is a B/W unit used on later model Revcons with 454 GM
> engine so is a proven piece. The NP205 I sourced would have been an option
> also but I found this one on CL for $100. I was able to make the adapter
> with a piece of 1" aluminum and a little change to the original TH400 to B/W
> case adapter.
> The differential has 3.73 gears but the B/W T Case has 1.1 to 1 gears
> which can be reversed easily. That translates into a 4.10 or 3.36. With the
> case
> at 4.1 and a 25% overdrive in the trans I should be at 3.08. I am running
> 215/85/16 tires which drops the effective ratio about 3.8% to 2.96 which be
> close to ideal (I hope).
> I already have the Manny one ton and I don't think I'll try playing with
> the geometry at all. I wouldn't mind moving the upper arm mounting points up
> a little but that'll have to wait.
> The interior protrusion looks to be about 4" high and 20" long. I thought
> I could get the engine further forward but even after reworking the oil pan
> I was only able to pick up about an inch. It shouldn't be a problem but I
> had hoped for less.
> Thanks for the interest, Hal
> --
> 1977 Royale 101348,
>
> 1977 Royale 101586,
>
> 1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: [GMCnet] 6.5 swap progress [message #263894 is a reply to message #263862] |
Fri, 10 October 2014 06:07 |
Jim at the Co-op
Messages: 291
Registered: May 2014
Location: Orlando Florida
Karma: 2
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Done some work on those Revcons with that drive train, check out that
transfer case carefully. Replacement parts for that thing are really rare
and the place that has them is not cheap. This part is one of the handful
that can really bite a Revcon owner. Look into the transfer case Workhorse
used in their LF-72 airport shuttle bus chassis. I would hate to see you
get all this in and the transfer case craps out. The Workhorse drive train
was put together exactly the same as the later Revcons were but because the
were using the Duramax turbo diesel and the Allison 1000 trans, that
transfer case was serious...
Jim Bounds
-----------------------------
On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 6:18 PM, Bruce Hart wrote:
> goog job, Hal. Doesn't look anything like the front frame you got from
> Larry C.
>
> On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 3:36 PM, Hal StClair
> wrote:
>
>> The transfer case is a B/W unit used on later model Revcons with 454 GM
>> engine so is a proven piece. The NP205 I sourced would have been an
> option
>> also but I found this one on CL for $100. I was able to make the adapter
>> with a piece of 1" aluminum and a little change to the original TH400 to
> B/W
>> case adapter.
>> The differential has 3.73 gears but the B/W T Case has 1.1 to 1 gears
>> which can be reversed easily. That translates into a 4.10 or 3.36. With
> the
>> case
>> at 4.1 and a 25% overdrive in the trans I should be at 3.08. I am running
>> 215/85/16 tires which drops the effective ratio about 3.8% to 2.96 which
> be
>> close to ideal (I hope).
>> I already have the Manny one ton and I don't think I'll try playing with
>> the geometry at all. I wouldn't mind moving the upper arm mounting
> points up
>> a little but that'll have to wait.
>> The interior protrusion looks to be about 4" high and 20" long. I thought
>> I could get the engine further forward but even after reworking the oil
> pan
>> I was only able to pick up about an inch. It shouldn't be a problem but I
>> had hoped for less.
>> Thanks for the interest, Hal
>> --
>> 1977 Royale 101348,
>>
>> 1977 Royale 101586,
>>
>> 1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Bruce Hart
> 1976 Palm Beach
> Milliken, Co
> GMC=Got More Class
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] 6.5 swap progress [message #263896 is a reply to message #263894] |
Fri, 10 October 2014 09:18 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Hey Hippie Jim,
I remember noting that to make the Duramax installation work you had to extend the drivers compartment rearwards, what was the
reason for that, the engine location, transfer case dimensions, or both?
Hal,
Will installing the 6.5 with in your coach require doing the same?
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Bounds
Done some work on those Revcons with that drive train, check out that
transfer case carefully. Replacement parts for that thing are really rare
and the place that has them is not cheap. This part is one of the handful
that can really bite a Revcon owner. Look into the transfer case Workhorse
used in their LF-72 airport shuttle bus chassis. I would hate to see you
get all this in and the transfer case craps out. The Workhorse drive train
was put together exactly the same as the later Revcons were but because the
were using the Duramax turbo diesel and the Allison 1000 trans, that
transfer case was serious...
Jim Bounds
-----------------------------
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] 6.5 swap progress [message #263901 is a reply to message #263896] |
Fri, 10 October 2014 11:21 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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Senior Member |
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The drivers compartment will stay the same with only an additional step about 4" tall behind the existing step Rob.
As for the Transfer case Jim, you are right about the price and availability of parts. I've visited Marty down in San Diego, the Revcon JK, he's got the parts but his prices are crazy. I've got to open it up and swap the gears so I'll replace the bearings in it while I'm in there.The chain seems to be tight. They make a 13 ball bearing to replace the 9 ball that it came stock with. There are a couple of guys on the Revcon Forum with 502 crate motors who haven't been able to hurt the B/W units but one had problems with the Dana 70. I guess pulling on the D70 backwards wasn't the best idea but there weren't any reverse cut gears available. The LF72 transfer case is huge and looks to be remote mounted. It would really intrude into the cabin both height and length being considerations in the build. I do have a NP205 gear driven transfer case that could be substituted for the B/W unit and parts are readily
available. They are heavier and slightly longer but should have the strength for the application.
Thanks for the input. I'm in un-chartered territory here for sure 
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] 6.5 swap progress [message #263902 is a reply to message #263901] |
Fri, 10 October 2014 11:36 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Hal,
I’m fascinated by your project. It seems to me that the longitudinal orientation of the drivetrain is a limiting factor. If only the transverse diesel drivetrain in the Ram vans had more power it could be a good candidate for transplant. I think it’s a smaller package, and without the need to bend the torque 270 degrees from the crankshaft it might be more efficient, too!
Good luck - and keep posting!
Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, CA
On Oct 10, 2014, at 9:21 AM, Hal StClair wrote:
> The drivers compartment will stay the same with only an additional step about 4" tall behind the existing step Rob.
> As for the Transfer case Jim, you are right about the price and availability of parts. I've visited Marty down in San Diego, the Revcon JK, he's got
> the parts but his prices are crazy. I've got to open it up and swap the gears so I'll replace the bearings in it while I'm in there.The chain seems to
> be tight. They make a 13 ball bearing to replace the 9 ball that it came stock with. There are a couple of guys on the Revcon Forum with 502 crate
> motors who haven't been able to hurt the B/W units but one had problems with the Dana 70. I guess pulling on the D70 backwards wasn't the best idea
> but there weren't any reverse cut gears available. The LF72 transfer case is huge and looks to be remote mounted. It would really intrude into the
> cabin both height and length being considerations in the build. I do have a NP205 gear driven transfer case that could be substituted for the B/W unit
> and parts are readily
> available. They are heavier and slightly longer but should have the strength for the application.
> Thanks for the input. I'm in un-chartered territory here for sure :d
> Hal
> --
> 1977 Royale 101348,
> 1977 Royale 101586,
> 1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout
> _______________________________________________
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: 6.5 swap progress [message #263940 is a reply to message #263848] |
Fri, 10 October 2014 19:32 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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They've been building motorhomes on that dodge promaster chassis in Europe for a decade. Not as heavy, maybe, but they seem to handle the load.
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: 6.5 swap progress [message #263967 is a reply to message #263940] |
Fri, 10 October 2014 23:25 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Chr$ wrote on Fri, 10 October 2014 18:32They've been building motorhomes on that dodge promaster chassis in Europe for a decade. Not as heavy, maybe, but they seem to handle the load.
The domestic units use Dodge Caravan powertrains--not very robust.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: 6.5 swap progress [message #264004 is a reply to message #264001] |
Sat, 11 October 2014 19:50 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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Loffen,
I will build a plug that holds it locked in all the time. It has a one inch pipe thread on the actuator and it should only take measuring the travel and making a plug. I'm looking into a locker for the front differential but will wait until I get it going. That's an extra expense I'll hold off on for now. It's a good thing the CEO is all in on this project.
Front motor mounts completed today and working on the trans mount-a bit of a challenge for sure.
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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| Re: 6.5 swap progress [message #264095 is a reply to message #263967] |
Sun, 12 October 2014 23:33 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Bob de Kruyff wrote on Fri, 10 October 2014 21:25Chr$ wrote on Fri, 10 October 2014 18:32They've been building motorhomes on that dodge promaster chassis in Europe for a decade. Not as heavy, maybe, but they seem to handle the load.
The domestic units use Dodge Caravan powertrains--not very robust.
Really? You've got to be kidding! Well, that about says it all. A "full size" van with a K-Car powertrain...
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: [GMCnet] 6.5 swap progress [message #264129 is a reply to message #264095] |
Mon, 13 October 2014 09:31 |
Jim at the Co-op
Messages: 291
Registered: May 2014
Location: Orlando Florida
Karma: 2
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Yes, parts are expensive but that's only an estimate..... Yes, the LF-72
transfer case is huge, I had to extend the front deck which made the step !
12" from the door! A big mod! Hey, it's stout though. These are the
unexpected results you always run into doing mods like this. That's why
most people sit in the back seat of a bug sporting a big block...
I wish you luck, I want to have you guys out there exploring options so I
won't have to. It's all way to expensive to do on your own as a business...
Jim Bounds
------------------------------
On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 12:33 AM, Chris Choffat wrote:
> Bob de Kruyff wrote on Fri, 10 October 2014 21:25
>> Chr$ wrote on Fri, 10 October 2014 18:32
>>> They've been building motorhomes on that dodge promaster chassis in
> Europe for a decade. Not as heavy, maybe, but they seem to handle the
>>> load.
>>
>> The domestic units use Dodge Caravan powertrains--not very robust.
>
>
> Really? You've got to be kidding! Well, that about says it all. A "full
> size" van with a K-Car powertrain...
> --
> -Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
> Scottsdale, AZ
> 77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
> 2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT W/ 390W PV, MPPT Controller, Honda EV4010 and custom
> cargo door.
>
> Photosite: Chrisc "It has Begun"
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: 6.5 swap progress [message #264163 is a reply to message #263848] |
Mon, 13 October 2014 20:02 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Thanks for the new photos Hal. I love this stuff!
Are your front motor mounts hard mounted to the motor/frame or is there rubber in there somewhere?
How are the torsion bars going to anchor? Are you going to have to build a connector below the new tranny?
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: 6.5 swap progress [message #264167 is a reply to message #264163] |
Mon, 13 October 2014 20:27 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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Senior Member |
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Kerry,I used the rubber Hummer motor mounts as well as the trans rubber mount. Diesels have a bad habit of unwanted harmonics so I thought I'd stick with a proven mount and hopefully avoid any unpleasant vibrations. The torsion bar mount is rearward of the new cross member and the bars should cross under it (new cross member). I should also have room for the exhaust-3 1/2" or 4" is the plan. I built the mounts so they double bolt in (if that makes sense) so to be easier to service/remove. It adds complexity but hopefully will make service simpler. Of course never having to work on it is the plan....
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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| Re: 6.5 swap progress updated pictures [message #264409 is a reply to message #264393] |
Fri, 17 October 2014 08:24 |
tmsnyder
Messages: 151
Registered: January 2014
Karma: -9
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Senior Member |
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I don't have a GMC motorhome yet, but I love this mod.
Was there a reason why you kept the 4L80E transmission directly bolted to the engine? Could you have used the original bell housing / chain drive unit (what's it called?) and kept the original transmission ?
Do you have a table of your expected rpm vs speed for each gear? What rpm is the engine going to be turning at 60mph?
Sorry for so many questions, it's a cool modification.
Hal StClair wrote on Thu, 16 October 2014 21:20Got the front differential mounted. FINALLY got the pictures on the site. Boy do I have a lot to learn.
Hal
Todd Snyder, Buffalo NY
1976 Eleganza II
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