Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » oil cooler adapter gasket (how much should it be torqued?)
| oil cooler adapter gasket [message #260591] |
Sun, 31 August 2014 18:53  |
rjw
Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005
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I noticed a oil leak during a previous trip. I thought it was loose rocker cover bolts. Tighten them up and though was all OK until I changed to engine oil today. When I looked at the filter I realized that the bulk of my leak was coming from the oil cooler adapter. I am aware of using the gasket from the just removed oil filter as a new gasket. Well I did that with no idea of the torque, but figured it was not very much since you don't torque an oil filter all that much and it is the same gasket.
Well it leaked a drip a minute when I stated the engine. Then I figured I would tighten it some and now it leaks more.
Does anyone know the proper procedure for using the gasket from a used filter? How much to torque it? I must admit after 16 years of oil changes I never paid much attention to the gasket between the oil filter base and the oil cooler adapter. It never seemed to leak before. After I changed my engine a few years ago it started to leak.
These pages are the only ones I am aware of at the photo site.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/emergency-oil-cooler-line-repairs/p11679.html
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
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| Re: [GMCnet] oil cooler adapter gasket [message #260596 is a reply to message #260591] |
Sun, 31 August 2014 20:14  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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RIchard,
Are you sure the leak is from the interface between the adapter sections
and not from the adapter-to-engine connection? But, since it hasn't been
all that long since you installed the engine, that gasket should still be
good.
Aside from the obvious care to clean the seating surfaces good, I'd be
inclined to use the gasket from a new filter rather than a used one. And I
wouldn't be afraid to TIGHTEN that big ol' nut (from X-7525: Oil Filter
Extension Fitting ....55 ft-lb -- I THINK that's the one we're talking
about.)
Ken H.
On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 7:54 PM, RJW wrote:
> I noticed a oil leak during a previous trip. I thought it was loose
> rocker cover bolts. Tighten them up and though was all OK until I changed
> to
> engine oil today. When I looked at the filter I realized that the bulk
> of my leak was coming from the oil cooler adapter. I am aware of using the
> gasket from the just removed oil filter as a new gasket. Well I did that
> with no idea of the torque, but figured it was not very much since you don't
> torque an oil filter all that much and it is the same gasket.
>
> Well it leaked a drip a minute when I stated the engine. Then I figured
> I would tighten it some and now it leaks more.
>
> Does anyone know the proper procedure for using the gasket from a used
> filter? How much to torque it? I must admit after 16 years of oil changes I
> never paid much attention to the gasket between the oil filter base and
> the oil cooler adapter. It never seemed to leak before. After I changed
> my
> engine a few years ago it started to leak.
>
> These pages are the only ones I am aware of at the photo site.
>
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/emergency-oil-cooler-line-repairs/p11679.html
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] oil cooler adapter gasket [message #260597 is a reply to message #260596] |
Sun, 31 August 2014 20:38 |
rjw
Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005
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Ken Henderson wrote on Sun, 31 August 2014 21:14RIchard,
Are you sure the leak is from the interface between the adapter sections
and not from the adapter-to-engine connection? But, since it hasn't been
all that long since you installed the engine, that gasket should still be
good.
Aside from the obvious care to clean the seating surfaces good, I'd be
inclined to use the gasket from a new filter rather than a used one. And I
wouldn't be afraid to TIGHTEN that big ol' nut (from X-7525: Oil Filter
Extension Fitting ....55 ft-lb -- I THINK that's the one we're talking
about.)
Ken H.
Ken,
i can't be sure if it is the adapter-to-engine gasket or the adapter-to-oil-cooler gasket. All I can know is I can see oil dripping over the starter solenoid and down to the bottom of the starter. I can't really see where it is coming from.
When I first looked at the oil filter there was an obvious drip down the side and a bunch of oil on the mufflers. On my last trip there was smoke coming from the engine which I assumed was oil leaking from the rocker covers onto the exhaust manifold. Guess I was wrong on that count.
The gasket I took off looked like this from the photo site:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/emergency-oil-cooler-line-repairs/p11683.html
I know I never torqued the big nut to to 55 ft-lb. I'll try that tomorrow.
So you would buy a new filter and take the gasket off it for use as a adapter-to-oil-cooler gasket? I'll try that next.
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
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| Re: [GMCnet] oil cooler adapter gasket [message #260598 is a reply to message #260597] |
Sun, 31 August 2014 21:04 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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You will likely get too see it better if you remove the fender liner. Also there is a chance the oil is leaking from the rear of the intake manifold.Did you use the rubber intake gaskets on each end or RTV to seal the manifold to the block?
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] oil cooler adapter gasket [message #260602 is a reply to message #260601] |
Sun, 31 August 2014 22:31 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Sounds like the right idea to me!
I'll try to remember that -- I've probably just been lucky these past
100,000 miles. :-)
Ken H.
On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 11:28 PM, Rob Mueller
wrote:
> G'day,
>
> STOP using the gasket out of an oil filter between the oil filter adapter
> and the oil cooler adapter and get this kit from Dorman.
>
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/455-403-engine-oil-flow-path/p53706-dorman-oil-filter-o-ri.html
>
> The O-Ring is silicone and is what really should be used in between those
> two components NOT an oil filter seal!
>
> An oil filter seal is designed to be torqued hand tight, when you torque
> the oil filter extension fitting to 55 ft. lbs. I squashes
> the oil filter seal WAY beyond it's designed crush and over time it cold
> flows (oozes out around the oil cooler adapter) and leaks.
>
> Using the Dorman silicone seal results in the oil filter adapter and oil
> cooler adapter into a metal to metal fit with the seal in
> the groove doing it's thing.
>
> I installed one of the Dorman O-rings last year and haven't seen a drop of
> oil leakage from the area since then.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
> USAussie - Downunder
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RJW
>
> I noticed a oil leak during a previous trip. I thought it was loose
> rocker cover bolts. Tighten them up and though was all OK
> until I changed to engine oil today. When I looked at the filter I
> realized that the bulk of my leak was coming from the oil cooler
> adapter. I am aware of using the gasket from the just removed oil filter
> as a new gasket. Well I did that with no idea of the
> torque, but figured it was not very much since you don't torque an oil
> filter all that much and it is the same gasket.
>
> Well it leaked a drip a minute when I stated the engine. Then I figured
> I would tighten it some and now it leaks more.
>
> Does anyone know the proper procedure for using the gasket from a used
> filter? How much to torque it? I must admit after 16 years
> of oil changes I never paid much attention to the gasket between the oil
> filter base and the oil cooler adapter. It never seemed to
> leak before. After I changed my engine a few years ago it started to
> leak.
>
> These pages are the only ones I am aware of at the photo site.
>
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/emergency-oil-cooler-line-repairs/p11679.html
>
> Richard
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] oil cooler adapter gasket [message #260603 is a reply to message #260601] |
Sun, 31 August 2014 23:31 |
rjw
Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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USAussie wrote on Sun, 31 August 2014 23:28G'day,
STOP using the gasket out of an oil filter between the oil filter adapter and the oil cooler adapter and get this kit from Dorman.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/455-403-engine-oil-flow-path/p53706-dorman-oil-filter-o-ri.html
The O-Ring is silicone and is what really should be used in between those two components NOT an oil filter seal!
An oil filter seal is designed to be torqued hand tight, when you torque the oil filter extension fitting to 55 ft. lbs. I squashes
the oil filter seal WAY beyond it's designed crush and over time it cold flows (oozes out around the oil cooler adapter) and leaks.
Using the Dorman silicone seal results in the oil filter adapter and oil cooler adapter into a metal to metal fit with the seal in
the groove doing it's thing.
I installed one of the Dorman O-rings last year and haven't seen a drop of oil leakage from the area since then.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
Rob,
OK that sounds like a winner. You bought Dorman P/N 917-036?
I Googled Dorman P/N 917-036 and all the sources, for example Amazon, claim that that "This does not fit your: 1976 Oldsmobile Toronado". Or that they are a "Kit Set of 3 for Nissan Infiniti" at AutoZone etc.
I'll try them if it works for our application although it might not be until I get back from my trip starting Labor Day.
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
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| Re: oil cooler adapter gasket [message #260605 is a reply to message #260591] |
Mon, 01 September 2014 00:08 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Re
Quote:I Googled Dorman P/N 917-036 and all the sources, for example Amazon, claim that that "This does not fit your: 1976 Oldsmobile Toronado". Or that they are a "Kit Set of 3 for Nissan Infiniti" at AutoZone etc.
That is correct. The O ring that Rob identified is not for an Oldsmobile. In fact it is a little bit on the small side. (Total Diameter)
HOWEVER: It works very well on the Oldsmobile adaptor. You will need to stretch it a tiny bit to get it into the groove of the Cooler Adapor. I used it too!!!
By torqueing the adaptor to the required torque the metal to metal fit of the two parts will keep them from spinnig on each other, and the pressure is spread over the entire flange of the filter adaptor. The crush of the O ring will seal the fitting properly.
As was suggested I, too used an oil filter O-ring (new one) and when I torqued to the required torque, The pressure from the harder o-ring cracked the Filter Adaptor flange because the pressure was too localized or too uneven on the outer part of flange. (There is too much rubber there).
Best Regards
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: oil cooler adapter gasket [message #260608 is a reply to message #260591] |
Mon, 01 September 2014 01:00 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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And one more picture of the Dorman 0_Ring in the Oil Cooler adaptor to show how it fits.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/discussion-photos/p55769-silicone-o-ring-for-oil-cooler-adaptor.html
Note that the Square Key to clock the adaptor has been removed to allow me to Re-clock it to keep the oil cooler lines further away from my new headers.
Best Regards
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
[Updated on: Mon, 01 September 2014 01:06] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] oil cooler adapter gasket [message #260614 is a reply to message #260611] |
Mon, 01 September 2014 07:56 |
rjw
Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Ken Henderson wrote on Mon, 01 September 2014 07:55Thanks, Rob & John,
Y'All have covered yesterday and today -- now I don't have to learn
anything else today! 
Ken H.
Thanks Ken, Roy, Rob & John, (& Dick P. & Bob B. off the GMCnet),
I have learned more than I really wanted to know about where the oil filter attaches to my GMC.
I think the intake manifold seal is OK. I don't know about the filter stand to block gasket (Dick P). I'll check that out when I get back.
For now I'm heading to O'Reily's to get a Delco PF24 and use its new gasket to try an get a temporary seal. I won't torque that to 55 for fear of cracking the cooler adapter. Where do you buy cooling adapters? I sure don't want to have to find out.
I ordered the Dorman 917-036 Oil Cooler Adapter Seal from Amazon. Those will be waiting when I get home and will try that and torque the adapter to 55.
Hope that works, I sure don't like the oil all over my new mufflers and the drips on the ground.
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
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| Re: oil cooler adapter gasket [message #260615 is a reply to message #260591] |
Mon, 01 September 2014 07:59 |
Larry
Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
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I had crush and leak problems at the cooler adaptor for years. At an oil change, I would move the seal from the old filter to the new location between the oil filter cooler adaptor and the block...you know...like we have been instructed to do by GMC'rs for ever. At the next oil change I'd take it apart, noticing the oil leak and the damaged gasket. Then one day at a Greater Midwest Classics rally, I happened to mention this to the late Bob Drews. Bob said...in his gentle wise tone..."Think about what you are doing here." You are using a gasket here that is designed to be wet with oil and the filter screwed down against it in a place where you are not turning the adaptor against the gasket. You oil the gasket so that it slides as the filter is screwed down tight. You are not turning the adaptor, so there is no need to use oil on the gasket. Get up in there, and clean the surfaces of oil, put the dry gasket in place and tighten it down. You will have no more damaged gasket and no leak. So, I tried it. Sure enough, no leak, and no more damaged gasket. Bob continues to educate us from the great GMC'rs in the sky. I love that guy....
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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| Re: oil cooler adapter gasket [message #260618 is a reply to message #260615] |
Mon, 01 September 2014 08:47 |
rjw
Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Larry wrote on Mon, 01 September 2014 08:59I had crush and leak problems at the cooler adaptor for years. At an oil change, I would move the seal from the old filter to the new location between the oil filter cooler adaptor and the block...you know...like we have been instructed to do by GMC'rs for ever. At the next oil change I'd take it apart, noticing the oil leak and the damaged gasket. Then one day at a Greater Midwest Classics rally, I happened to mention this to the late Bob Drews. Bob said...in his gentle wise tone..."Think about what you are doing here." You are using a gasket here that is designed to be wet with oil and the filter screwed down against it in a place where you are not turning the adaptor against the gasket. You oil the gasket so that it slides as the filter is screwed down tight. You are not turning the adaptor, so there is no need to use oil on the gasket. Get up in there, and clean the surfaces of oil, put the dry gasket in place and tighten it down. You will have no more damaged gasket and no leak. So, I tried it. Sure enough, no leak, and no more damaged gasket. Bob continues to educate us from the great GMC'rs in the sky. I love that guy....
Larry,
I never really met Bob, but was in attendance at the seminars he did and the BS sessions where he spoke up at the GMCMI conventions. A very smart man and I certainly miss his input on the GMCnet and the EFI group.
It does make sense, what he said about not oiling the gasket. I'll try that today. How much torque did you use?
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
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| Re: [GMCnet] oil cooler adapter gasket [message #260622 is a reply to message #260605] |
Mon, 01 September 2014 09:01 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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John,
I was going to measure the ID / OD / depth of the slot in the oil filter adapter and find the correct O-ring to use when I stumbled
on to the Dorman kit (can't remember how) so I decided to give it a go and as you've noted you have to stretch it a bit get it in
the slot but it does stand "proud" of the slot enough to seal as you and I have discovered.
You can't see it but I also installed an O-ring around the extension piece where it screws into the oil filter adapter. I did that
to help keep it from turning when I removed oil filters.
I think I have a spare oil cooler adapter laying around, I'll try to remember to measure it and come up with the correct size O-ring
to fit in the groove properly.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: John Heslinga
Re Quote:
> I Googled Dorman P/N 917-036 and all the sources, for example Amazon, claim that that "This does not fit your: 1976 Oldsmobile
Toronado". Or that they are a "Kit Set of 3 for Nissan Infiniti" at AutoZone etc.
That is correct. The O ring that Rob identified is not for an Oldsmobile. In fact it is a little bit on the small side. (Total
Diameter)
HOWEVER: It works very well on the Oldsmobile adaptor. You will need to stretch it a tiny bit to get it into the groove of the
Cooler Adapor. I used it too!!!
By torqueing the adaptor to the required torque the metal to metal fit of the two parts will keep them from spinnig on each other,
and the pressure is spread over the entire flange of the filter adaptor. The crush of the O ring will seal the fitting properly.
As was suggested I, too used an oil filter O-ring (new one) and when I torqued to the required torque, The pressure from the harder
o-ring cracked the Filter Adaptor flange because the pressure was too localized or too uneven on the outer part of flange. (There is
too much rubber there).
Best Regards
--
John
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] oil cooler adapter gasket [message #260627 is a reply to message #260618] |
Mon, 01 September 2014 09:46 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Richard,
Not to denigrate BobD's suggestion why don't you try and find the Dorman P/N 917-036 and use the o-ring?
John got his at Auto Zone and I got mine at O'Reilly's.
BTW I note that the Parts Manual 78Z lists "Gasket 6436950" which I have Googled with no success, anybody got any ideas on how we
might find it?
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: RJW
Larry,
I never really met Bob, but was in attendance at the seminars he did and the BS sessions where he spoke up at the GMCMI conventions.
A very smart man and I certainly miss his input on the GMCnet and the EFI group.
It does make sense, what he said about not oiling the gasket. I'll try that today. How much torque did you use?
--
Richard
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] oil cooler adapter gasket [message #260631 is a reply to message #260627] |
Mon, 01 September 2014 11:28 |
rjw
Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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USAussie wrote on Mon, 01 September 2014 10:46Richard,
Not to denigrate BobD's suggestion why don't you try and find the Dorman P/N 917-036 and use the o-ring?
John got his at Auto Zone and I got mine at O'Reilly's.
Regards,
Rob M.
OK you talked me into it. I found a Advanced Auto Parts (30 mile round trip) that had them in stock. I'll go that route.
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
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| Re: [GMCnet] oil cooler adapter gasket [message #260638 is a reply to message #260636] |
Mon, 01 September 2014 13:10 |
rjw
Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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USAussie wrote on Mon, 01 September 2014 13:38Richard,
Good on Yah! You win the Aussie "It stays fixed certificate!"
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/aa-miscellaneous-photos/p33848-gmc-repair-philosophy.html
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: RJW
OK you talked me into it. I found a Advanced Auto Parts (30 mile round trip) that had them in stock. I'll go that route.
--
Richard
Well I hate to bare my soul, but after I thought I successfully installed the new gasket, I went to start. Well there was nothing. Then I remembered that I forgot to turn on the LP gas (I was getting it cold for today) and which caused my reefer to run on DC. Over night that killed the house (should have gone with a 2-way instead of a 3-way fridge) bank. I also neglected to turn off the air compressor (had it so I could run the compressor with the ignition off) and it ran a couple of times last night. That killed my starter battery. Got to fix those leaks from the Quad Bag system (used to be I never had to worry because i didn't have leaks with the old system). Time to rethink my electrical. Hooked an extension cord (coach is on my neighbors ramp)to the charger and finally got the Onan running. Now I am waiting on things to charge.
Older I get the stupider I get! The saying "stupid is as stupid does" applies here.
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
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| Re: [GMCnet] oil cooler adapter gasket [message #260642 is a reply to message #260638] |
Mon, 01 September 2014 15:24 |
rjw
Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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rjw wrote on Mon, 01 September 2014 14:10USAussie wrote on Mon, 01 September 2014 13:38Richard,
Good on Yah! You win the Aussie "It stays fixed certificate!"
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/aa-miscellaneous-photos/p33848-gmc-repair-philosophy.html
Regards,
Rob M.
Older I get the stupider I get! The saying "stupid is as stupid does" applies here.
Well I got it started and there no apparent leaks. It might be premature to be awarded the coveted Aussie "It stays fixed certificate!"
We shall see if it holds up during the long haul.
Thanks everyone for your advice!
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
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