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Possible 16" wheel for those who want a different offset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #255725]

Thu, 17 July 2014 17:56

Joe Weir

Messages: 769
Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC

Karma: 7

Senior Member

I have seen a few GMCers with dodge wheels on the front, which give more offset without using spacers. The wheels are close enough in style that some may look twice, if at all, to notice the difference. With that in mind, I saw these American Racing wheels on Amazon:

16x8, 8x6.5 lug, 4.5" backspace, 5.5" center bore, 3100lb load:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71uiwAJsh%2BL._SL1500_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/American-Racing-AR172-Polished-Wheel/dp/B000CIFQ0E/ref=sr_1_9?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1405636538&sr=1-9&keyword s=ar172#productDetails

They look enough like Alcoas to somewhat match. Other than the caveats of using a wheel with the wrong offset, and not being hub centric, Does anyone here see a reason why they would not be worth a try? Other than having fronts that are not interchangeable with the rears? Seems the rim would allow a wider tire to help with traction. At $117 bucks each new, they are almost as cheap as spacers.

Just a thought.

76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center... Columbia, SC.

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Re: Possible 16" wheel for those who want a different offset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #255728 is a reply to message #255725]

Thu, 17 July 2014 18:10

Otterwan

Messages: 946
Registered: July 2013
Location: Lynnwood (north of Seattl...

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The center bore is way too big (5.5" vs 4.6"). Since our wheels are hub centered, I don't see any way these could work.

1977 Birchaven, Lynnwood WA - "We may not be able to stop all evil in the world, but I know that how we treat one another is entirely up to us."

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Re: Possible 16" wheel for those who want a different offset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #255730 is a reply to message #255728]

Thu, 17 July 2014 18:24

Joe Weir

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Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC

Karma: 7

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Otterwan wrote on Thu, 17 July 2014 18:10

The center bore is way too big (5.5" vs 4.6"). Since our wheels are hub centered, I don't see any way these could work.

Well, the wheels would have to be lug centered, and would need different lug nuts. No?

76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center... Columbia, SC.

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Re: Possible 16" wheel for those who want a different offset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #255738 is a reply to message #255730]

Thu, 17 July 2014 19:01

Joe Weir

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Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC

Karma: 7

Senior Member

Maybe the better question would be what are the specs on the dodge rims being used, and how do they differ...

76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center... Columbia, SC.

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Re: Possible 16" wheel for those who want a different offset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #255739 is a reply to message #255725]

Thu, 17 July 2014 19:10

Carl S.

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Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.

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Those wheels DO look a lot more like the Alcoa Classics or the American Eagles. Eagle makes a very similar wheel and so does (did?) Alcoa. The only problem I see with these wheels is the backspacing. The Dodge wheels have quite a bit more backspacing, around 5.5 - 6 inches. The wheels you are looking at may stick out farther than the rears. The Dodge wheels are the same out to out as the rears. See this ebay listing for pictures:

<http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wheel-00-01-02-DODGE-2500-PICKUP-16x8-ALUMINUM-/161360844453?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Wheels&hash=item2591db16a5&vxp=mtr>

My Dodge front wheels are lug centered (as are my early Applied GMC Eagles) and I have experienced ZERO problems with them. I have been running the Dodge wheels on the front long enough to wear out a pair of tires. At first, I was worried that they might come loose (something I had heard here), and checked the torque after a couple hundred miles, and another time later. The first time, I got about 1/8 of a turn on the lug nuts to get them back to 140 foot pounds, the second time they didn't move. I wouldn't be concerned about hub centering versus lug centering. I believe it's the clamping force that counts.

Carl Stouffer '75 ex Palm Beach Tucson, AZ. Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member

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Re: [GMCnet] Possible 16" wheel for those who want a different offset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #255741 is a reply to message #255725]

Thu, 17 July 2014 19:07

emerystora

Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004

Karma: 13

Senior Member

Note that those are 8" wide. The GMC uses 6" wide wheels. They might rub on the wheel wells

Emery Stora

> On Jul 17, 2014, at 4:56 PM, Joe Weir wrote:
>
> I have seen a few GMCers with dodge wheels on the front, which give more offset without using spacers. The wheels are close enough in style that some
> may look twice, if at all, to notice the difference. With that in mind, I saw these American Racing wheels on Amazon:
>
> 16x8, 8x6.5 lug, 4.5" backspace, 5.5" center bore, 3100lb load:
>
>
>
> http://www.amazon.com/American-Racing-AR172-Polished-Wheel/dp/B000CIFQ0E/ref=sr_1_9?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1405636538&sr=1-9&keyword s=ar172#productDetails
>
> They look enough like Alcoas to somewhat match. Other than the caveats of using a wheel with the wrong offset, and not being hub centric, Does anyone
> here see a reason why they would not be worth a try? Other than having fronts that are not interchangeable with the rears? Seems the rim would allow
> a wider tire to help with traction. At $117 bucks each new, they are almost as cheap as spacers.
>
> Just a thought.
> --
> 76 Birchaven - New engine, trans, aluminum radiator, brakes, airbags, fuel lines, seats, upholstery, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were
> really thinking about us second hand owners...
> Columbia, SC.
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Possible 16" wheel for those who want a different offset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #255743 is a reply to message #255739]

Thu, 17 July 2014 19:28

Joe Weir

Messages: 769
Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC

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Carl S. wrote on Thu, 17 July 2014 19:10

... The Dodge wheels have quite a bit more backspacing, around 5.5 - 6 inches. The wheels you are looking at may stick out farther than the rears. The Dodge wheels are the same out to out as the rears. See this ebay listing for pictures:

<http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wheel-00-01-02-DODGE-2500-PICKUP-16x8-ALUMINUM-/161360844453?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Wheels&hash=item2591db16a5&vxp=mtr>

Thanks. So close and yet so far...like I need another distraction from finishing the current project... Very Happy

Very Happy

76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center... Columbia, SC.

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Re: Possible 16" wheel for those who want a different offset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #255754 is a reply to message #255743]

Thu, 17 July 2014 21:01

Carl S.

Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.

Karma: 13

Senior Member

Jim Bounds used a standard offset Alcoa or Eagle wheel of that design on a coach that he built a few years ago. I think it was the one with the 'ground effects' kit on it that was later in a flood in Calgary. He also ran a set of 12/16.5 tires on the front of one of his coaches, on a set of widened stock wheels with only a little rubbing at full suspension compression. The 8" width on the Dodge wheels is not an issue because of the backspacing, I don't know if it would be a problem with the other wheels and the stock fender openings. I think the wider wheel/tire combo does help with traction:

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/towing-etc/p41602-sand-dunes-2011.html

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5521-dodge-front-wheels-5-10.html

Carl Stouffer '75 ex Palm Beach Tucson, AZ. Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member

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Re: [GMCnet] Possible 16" wheel for those who want a differentoffset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #255755 is a reply to message #255743]

Thu, 17 July 2014 21:07

USAussie

Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia

Karma: 6

Senior Member

G'day,

You guys need to stop trying to re-invent the wheel! ;-)

If you want 16" steel wheel you have to find and try them on YOUR coach to make sure they fit due to differences in the front brake
calipers.

If you want 16" aluminum wheels you can buy Alcoa's or Eagles.

Eagles come in two flavors, hub centered or lug centered.

Now I could say that hub centered are better but I won't cause that will start ANOTHER argument!

Oh yeah there are those "Rock Star" wheels but they're a bit over the top for my liking.

Carl's Dodge wheels are nice looking on the front, too bad they don't make a matching set with a different offset for the rear.

Regards,
Rob M.

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Re: [GMCnet] Possible 16" wheel for those who want a different offsetand alcoa styling without spacers? [message #255757 is a reply to message #255725]

Thu, 17 July 2014 21:11

USAussie

Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia

Karma: 6

Senior Member

Joe,

Unless I missed something about those wheels having only FIVE lugs might present a problem.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Weir

I have seen a few GMCers with dodge wheels on the front, which give more offset without using spacers. The wheels are close enough
in style that some may look twice, if at all, to notice the difference. With that in mind, I saw these American Racing wheels on
Amazon:

16x8, 8x6.5 lug, 4.5" backspace, 5.5" center bore, 3100lb load:

http://www.amazon.com/American-Racing-AR172-Polished-Wheel/dp/B000CIFQ0E/ref=sr_1_9?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1405636538&sr=1-9&keywo
rds=ar172#productDetails

They look enough like Alcoas to somewhat match. Other than the caveats of using a wheel with the wrong offset, and not being hub
centric, Does anyone here see a reason why they would not be worth a try? Other than having fronts that are not interchangeable
with the rears? Seems the rim would allow a wider tire to help with traction. At $117 bucks each new, they are almost as cheap as
spacers.

Just a thought.

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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Re: [GMCnet] Possible 16" wheel for those who want a different offsetand alcoa styling without spacers? [message #255760 is a reply to message #255757]

Thu, 17 July 2014 21:30

Carl S.

Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.

Karma: 13

Senior Member

USAussie wrote on Thu, 17 July 2014 19:11

Joe,

Unless I missed something about those wheels having only FIVE lugs might present a problem.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Weir

I have seen a few GMCers with dodge wheels on the front, which give more offset without using spacers. The wheels are close enough
in style that some may look twice, if at all, to notice the difference. With that in mind, I saw these American Racing wheels on
Amazon:

16x8, 8x6.5 lug, 4.5" backspace, 5.5" center bore, 3100lb load:

http://www.amazon.com/American-Racing-AR172-Polished-Wheel/dp/B000CIFQ0E/ref=sr_1_9?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1405636538&sr=1-9&keywo
rds=ar172#productDetails

They look enough like Alcoas to somewhat match. Other than the caveats of using a wheel with the wrong offset, and not being hub
centric, Does anyone here see a reason why they would not be worth a try? Other than having fronts that are not interchangeable
with the rears? Seems the rim would allow a wider tire to help with traction. At $117 bucks each new, they are almost as cheap as
spacers.

Just a thought.

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Rob,

I think the picture is just an example of the style of the wheel. The description states 8X6.5". That would be the bolt pattern.

Carl Stouffer '75 ex Palm Beach Tucson, AZ. Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member

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Re: [GMCnet] Possible 16" wheel for those who want a differentoffset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #255765 is a reply to message #255755]

Thu, 17 July 2014 22:37

Joe Weir

Messages: 769
Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC

Karma: 7

Senior Member

Rob,

The point was to find a matching wheel to the alcoa/eagle with a different offset.

I have a set of alcoas, and would like the track to line up front to back - for no other reason than being mildly OCD about some things... Very Happy

Very Happy

Sure, I could just do a one ton upgrade, but what internet arguments would that start...

76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center... Columbia, SC.

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Re: [GMCnet] Possible 16" wheel for those who want adifferentoffset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #255779 is a reply to message #255765]

Fri, 18 July 2014 07:36

USAussie

Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia

Karma: 6

Senior Member

Joe,

I looked at the photo and jumped to the wrong conclusion, DOUH!

If you can find an Alcoa wheel P/N 167001A you've got one:

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/alcoa-wheels/p46735-alcoa-wheels-for-a-gmc.html

You will have to have a ring machined up to weld into the hub to reduce hub centering from 5.155 to 4.567.

Michael Bozardt has a pair of these for his GMC, yet to be installed.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Weir

Rob,

The point was to find a matching wheel to the alcoa/eagle with a different offset.

I have a set of alcoas, and would like the track to line up front to back - for no other reason than being mildly OCD about some
things... :d

Sure, I could just do a one ton upgrade, but what internet arguments would that start...
--

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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Re: [GMCnet] Possible 16" wheel for those who want adifferentoffset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #255806 is a reply to message #255779]

Fri, 18 July 2014 16:26

Joe Weir

Messages: 769
Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC

Karma: 7

Senior Member

Looks like the 0 offset Alcoas have gone the way of the Hotshot and LTS.

Using Robs link to the Alcoa specs, and a little math, it appears the AR wheel would move the outside edge of the wheel out 6" While there is nearly 10" of difference front to rear in the track, that would put the front wheels 1" proud of the rears. Its not a lot, and if I had a spare $250 laying around, it might be worth a try just to see.

I will leave it to the suspension experts on what effects the offset would have on stability.

76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center... Columbia, SC.

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Re: Possible 16" wheel for those who want a different offset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #255824 is a reply to message #255725]

Fri, 18 July 2014 20:09

Cadillackeeper

Messages: 464
Registered: October 2012
Location: Fort Lauderdale

Karma: 1

Senior Member

Just by chance,I shut off my cable tv and was searching the locals with my new antenna.First thing comes up is Cozi tv and the 6 million dollar man driving a GMC.The wheels are huge and he drives it off road really hard.I was thinking the tech guys when they first seen the script decided right away to use a GMC and looks like they aired it or jacked it way high and LOOK at these wheels.I wish i could have recorded it.Maybe i can find a clip,I found a photo right away.
http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_307932-GMC-Sequoia-280-1974.html

77 455 Elaganza II and 67 Animal, Built 500 Powered Eldo

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Re: Possible 16" wheel for those who want a different offset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #255856 is a reply to message #255824]

Sat, 19 July 2014 08:02

Joe Weir

Messages: 769
Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC

Karma: 7

Senior Member

These might work, though:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aew-0589-7788

16x7, 8x6.5, 3000lb., 5.15" bore

http://www.ntwonline.com/images/P/AE0589-78XX__lg.jpg

http://www.ntwonline.com/images/P/AE0589-78XX__lg.jpg

76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center... Columbia, SC.

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Re: [GMCnet] Possible 16" wheel for those who want a differentoffset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #255860 is a reply to message #255856]

Sat, 19 July 2014 08:53

USAussie

Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia

Karma: 6

Senior Member

Joe,

Good find, I just bought one, I'll report what I find.

Regards,
Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Weir

These might work, though:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aew-0589-7788

16x7, 8x6.5, 3000lb., 5.15" bore

http://www.ntwonline.com/images/P/AE0589-78XX__lg.jpg

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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Re: [GMCnet] Possible 16" wheel for those who want a differentoffset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #255862 is a reply to message #255755]

Sat, 19 July 2014 08:58

Sammy Williams

Messages: 522
Registered: August 2010

Karma: -2

Senior Member

I looked and found this in the description, They may be perfect for the 1
ton conversion:

Designed specifically for rear-wheel drive vehicles, these Eagle Alloys 058
Series wheels feature one-piece construction with eight decorative holes
for style. Eagle Alloys 058 Series wheels also feature individual wheel
bolt circles for extra strength, center caps (on some models), and a
polished finish. For great looking aluminum wheels for the price of steel
wheels, check out the Eagle Alloys 058 Series wheels.

Even though it says RWD Vehicles, I'd imagine, the spacer on the 1 ton
makes our FWD unit appear as RWD for the rim. :)

Sammy

(Im no professional here, Im learning too.

On Sat, Jul 19, 2014 at 8:53 AM, Rob Mueller
wrote:

> Joe,
>
> Good find, I just bought one, I'll report what I find.
>
> Regards,
> Rob
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Weir
>
> These might work, though:
>
> http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aew-0589-7788
>
> 16x7, 8x6.5, 3000lb., 5.15" bore
>
> http://www.ntwonline.com/images/P/AE0589-78XX__lg.jpg
>
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Re: [GMCnet] Possible 16" wheel for those who want a differentoffset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #255864 is a reply to message #255862]

Sat, 19 July 2014 10:17

Joe Weir

Messages: 769
Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC

Karma: 7

Senior Member

Sammy Williams wrote on Sat, 19 July 2014 08:58

I looked and found this in the description, They may be perfect for the 1
ton conversion:
Even though it says RWD Vehicles, I'd imagine, the spacer on the 1 ton
makes our FWD unit appear as RWD for the rim.

Sammy

That the one ton uses a spacer hadn't even occurred to me. Though I do not know how much (if any) the one ton increases track without the spacer. My earlier calculations were based on the stock track. YMMV & YMMBB (Your math may be better).

Would be interesting to see if these clear the caliper, considering the direction of the wheel face (out instead of back towards the hub.)

Rob, you shipping that wheel down under? Thats hard core. Now I feel like a wuss for not finding room for a couple of wheels in the budget... Very Happy

Very Happy

76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center... Columbia, SC.

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Re: [GMCnet] Possible 16" wheel for those who want adifferentoffset and alcoa styling without spacers? [message #255873 is a reply to message #255864]

Sat, 19 July 2014 15:30

USAussie

Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia

Karma: 6

Senior Member

Joe,

Nope.

Summitt is shipping the wheel to Humble, Texas for free which is where I keep Double Trouble. I figure if it doesn't fit it'll cost
me less than $50 to return it. If it fit's and clears my 80mm calipers we've got a winner!

For a GMC one would order two of them and five (one spare) of the Eagles that fit the rear wheels.

I would make up a spacer to weld into the hub to make it 4.567 which isn't really necessary unless you're an anally retentive bugger
like me! ;-)

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Weir

That the one ton uses a spacer hadn't even occurred to me. Though I do not know how much (if any) the one ton increases track
without the spacer. My earlier calculations were based on the stock track. YMMV & YMMBB (Your math may be better).

Would be interesting to see if these clear the caliper, considering the direction of the wheel face (out instead of back towards the
hub.)

Rob, you shipping that wheel down under? Thats hard core. Now I feel like a wuss for not finding room for a couple of wheels in
the budget... :d

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