Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Bogie Pins & Bushings
| [GMCnet] Bogie Pins & Bushings [message #248191] |
Tue, 22 April 2014 14:00  |
rallymaster
Messages: 662
Registered: February 2004
Location: North Plains, ORYGUN
Karma: -4
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Hi, guys & gals
Does anybody remember how big a job it is to replace bogie pins and
bushings?
And does it GMCMH experience to do it?
All I remember from past posts is that it's expensive.
Thanks,
RonC
Ron & Linda Clark
1978 GMC Eleganza II
North Plains, ORYGUN
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78 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bogie Pins & Bushings [message #248206 is a reply to message #248200] |
Tue, 22 April 2014 17:16  |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
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It is a dirty pita. Make sure it is needed prior to committing. Removing the old bushings and reaming the new is the worst part IMO.
Todd Sullivan
Sully
77 royale
Seattle
> On Apr 22, 2014, at 1:14 PM, John Wright <powerjon@chartermi.net> wrote:
>
> Requires complete disassembly of the bogies.
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/jim-s-place/p6334.html
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/back-at-jims/p6607.html
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/bogie-pins/p41265-bogie-pin-rebuild.html
>
> New bushing and pins
> http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/696
> Use of reamer
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/so-il-gmc/p15123.html
> reassembly and painting plus other parts such as brakes and bearing and seals
>
> You are not that far from Jim K, you should get a quote to have the work done if you not mechanically inclined.
>
> JR Wright
> 78 Buskirk Stretch
> 75 Avion
> Michigan
>
>> On Apr 22, 2014, at 3:00 PM, rallymaster@juno.com wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi, guys & gals
>>
>> Does anybody remember how big a job it is to replace bogie pins and
>> bushings?
>> And does it GMCMH experience to do it?
>> All I remember from past posts is that it's expensive.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> RonC
>>
>> Ron & Linda Clark
>> 1978 GMC Eleganza II
>> North Plains, ORYGUN
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
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>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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> _______________________________________________
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bogie Pins & Bushings [message #248207 is a reply to message #248191] |
Tue, 22 April 2014 17:21 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
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I you only have play in the forward arm bushings then the left front arm and pin can be put on the right rear etc. since the rears trail a little slop in them would be less of an issue than in the forward facing ones. I would just try to keep track of which pin went into which arm upon disassembly. Mine were bad forward and rear facing so I did the whole deal with the help of Jim k and his reamer.
Todd Sullivan
Sully
77 royale
Seattle
> On Apr 22, 2014, at 12:00 PM, <rallymaster@juno.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi, guys & gals
>
> Does anybody remember how big a job it is to replace bogie pins and
> bushings?
> And does it GMCMH experience to do it?
> All I remember from past posts is that it's expensive.
>
> Thanks,
>
> RonC
>
> Ron & Linda Clark
> 1978 GMC Eleganza II
> North Plains, ORYGUN
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bogie Pins & Bushings [message #248216 is a reply to message #248191] |
Tue, 22 April 2014 18:33 |
rallymaster
Messages: 662
Registered: February 2004
Location: North Plains, ORYGUN
Karma: -4
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Thanks to all who responded.
Jim Hupy said they were pretty sloppy, so I guess I'd better get it done
pretty soon.
RonC
On Tue, 22 Apr 2014 15:16:56 -0700 Todd Sullivan <sgltrac@gmail.com>
writes:
> It is a dirty pita. Make sure it is needed prior to committing.
> Removing the old bushings and reaming the new is the worst part IMO.
>
>
> Todd Sullivan
>
> Sully
> 77 royale
> Seattle
>
> > On Apr 22, 2014, at 1:14 PM, John Wright <powerjon@chartermi.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > Requires complete disassembly of the bogies.
> > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/jim-s-place/p6334.html
> > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/back-at-jims/p6607.html
> >
>
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/bogie-pins/p41265-bogie-pin-rebuild.htm
l
> >
> > New bushing and pins
> > http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/696
> > Use of reamer
> > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/so-il-gmc/p15123.html
> > reassembly and painting plus other parts such as brakes and
> bearing and seals
> >
> > You are not that far from Jim K, you should get a quote to have
> the work done if you not mechanically inclined.
> >
> > JR Wright
> > 78 Buskirk Stretch
> > 75 Avion
> > Michigan
> >
> >> On Apr 22, 2014, at 3:00 PM, rallymaster@juno.com wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi, guys & gals
> >>
> >> Does anybody remember how big a job it is to replace bogie pins
> and
> >> bushings?
> >> And does it GMCMH experience to do it?
> >> All I remember from past posts is that it's expensive.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> RonC
> >>
> >> Ron & Linda Clark
> >> 1978 GMC Eleganza II
> >> North Plains, ORYGUN
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GMCnet mailing list
> >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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Ron & Linda Clark
1978 GMC Eleganza II
North Plains, ORYGUN
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Ron & Linda Clark
North Plains, ORYGUN
78 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bogie Pins & Bushings [message #248223 is a reply to message #248216] |
Tue, 22 April 2014 20:30 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Ron,
Believe me, those photos don't begin to show how bad it CAN be:
Some of the brackets are worn elliptical on the frame side, in which case
major machine shop operation might be required to save the bracket before
installing new pins.
The shims between the frame and the bracket may be so rusted as to leave no
clue to the required replacements, so you'll have to learn to do the
by-the-book rear alignment -- something probably very few have done in the
past 20 years.
Don't try to do it without a guided reamer. When I did my pins at the Coop
in '98, JimB had just acquired a reamer and had not yet begun to do that
work. The reamer would only do one side of the bracket at a time. I wound
up with nicely reamed bushings but the pins would only go 1/2 way through
the bracket. Not only that, the pins were extremely roughly finished,
apparently some of a batch that Alex Sirum admitted to me many years later
got through him without having been ground and polished. That combination
resulted in the pins being VERY tight when installed. They eventually wore
in, but I did have some complications along the way.
While it's not a recommended solution, I no longer worry about what's
probably excessive play in my bushings: The True-Tracks I installed
several years back (and replaced with the Manny Brake exact equivalents)
seem to make it a non-issue. I think they'll outlast me if I keep greasing
them every few thousand miles with Synpower.
It WOULD be cheaper to install track guides than to install new pins. It
might even be cheaper to install Manny Brakes with the optional track
guides than to install new pins. IF that would be a satisfactory solution.
JWID,
Ken H.
On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 7:33 PM, wrote:
>
> Thanks to all who responded.
> Jim Hupy said they were pretty sloppy, so I guess I'd better get it done
> pretty soon.
>
> RonC
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bogie Pins & Bushings [message #248280 is a reply to message #248266] |
Wed, 23 April 2014 09:32 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
I don’t remember discussing these items, but I did find some data in the X7725 maintenance book 4A22 at the bottom. As for specs I haven’t found any thing, but I think that the ream would be the deciding factor on clearance and would require doing some measurements. Jim K might have that data.
Jim does rent the reamer out if you want to do the job yourself (Best Deal ), but it is available also from McMaster Carr if you just have to have your own.
I got these numbers from Max Pardy who was the shop Forman for Buskirk’s when they were open.
1 1/2” pins Reamer 2987A21
Pilot 3004A27
1 1/4” pins Reamer 2987A19
Pilot 3004A23
JR
On Apr 23, 2014, at 3:45 AM, Robert Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> JR,
>
> I know we've discussed this before but for some reason I don't have anything in my Rear Suspension Folder about it!
>
> I have two questions:
>
> 1) How much lateral play is allowed in the bogie arm before the bushing need to be replaced?
>
> 2) Where can the specification for that be found?
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bogie Pins & Bushings [message #248282 is a reply to message #248280] |
Wed, 23 April 2014 09:47 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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JR,
Thanks!
Checked your reference and wow; fifty thou lateral movement at the end of the spindle sure ain't much!
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: John Wright
Rob,
I don't remember discussing these items, but I did find some data in the X7725 maintenance book 4A22 at the bottom. As for specs I
haven't found any thing, but I think that the ream would be the deciding factor on clearance and would require doing some
measurements. Jim K might have that data.
Jim does rent the reamer out if you want to do the job yourself (Best Deal ), but it is available also from McMaster Carr if you
just have to have your own.
I got these numbers from Max Pardy who was the shop Forman for Buskirk's when they were open.
1 1/2" pins Reamer 2987A21
Pilot 3004A27
1 1/4" pins Reamer 2987A19
Pilot 3004A23
JR
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bogie Pins & Bushings [message #248302 is a reply to message #248282] |
Wed, 23 April 2014 18:34 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
That’s not the flex of the arm which we all see and as you know makes the wheels look odd at times. Your right, 0.050 at the end of the spindle is not that much play at the pin bearings. I would consider that very conservative. If anyone else has any data lets get it posted here on the net or on Gene’s site.
JR
On Apr 23, 2014, at 10:47 AM, Robert Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> JR,
>
> Thanks!
>
> Checked your reference and wow; fifty thou lateral movement at the end of the spindle sure ain't much!
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> Sydney, Australia
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Wright
>
> Rob,
> I don't remember discussing these items, but I did find some data in the X7725 maintenance book 4A22 at the bottom. As for specs I
> haven't found any thing, but I think that the ream would be the deciding factor on clearance and would require doing some
> measurements. Jim K might have that data.
>
> Jim does rent the reamer out if you want to do the job yourself (Best Deal ), but it is available also from McMaster Carr if you
> just have to have your own.
> I got these numbers from Max Pardy who was the shop Forman for Buskirk's when they were open.
>
> 1 1/2" pins Reamer 2987A21
> Pilot 3004A27
>
> 1 1/4" pins Reamer 2987A19
> Pilot 3004A23
>
> JR
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bogie Pins & Bushings [message #248328 is a reply to message #248302] |
Wed, 23 April 2014 22:14 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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| powerjon wrote on Wed, 23 April 2014 18:34 |
Rob,
That’s not the flex of the arm which we all see and as you know makes the wheels look odd at times. Your right, 0.050 at the end of the spindle is not that much play at the pin bearings. I would consider that very conservative. If anyone else has any data lets get it posted here on the net or on Gene’s site.
JR
|
Not sure we are talking about the same thing...but here is from Gene's site, a quote from Denny Allen.
QUOTE
BOGIE PINS
Another variable from coach to coach is the wear on the rear pins. I have a coach here that had a mind of its own according to the owner. The rear pins were very loose so the coach was riding on four casters back there. The easiest/best way to check and get a repeatable measurement is: Support the coach under the rear suspension mounting bracket at approximatly the correct ride height. Loosen all lug nuts on both wheels. Release all air from the air bag. Jack up the suspension arm only--just enough to get the wheel off.
With a piece of wood, standing on end, support the end of the control arm at the spindle end. Move the spindle end of the arm towards and away from the frame and measure the total movement with a tape measure. GM Service Bulletin #75-TM-4 states 1/8" is maximum.
A big job to fix but this coach was about 1/2" movement on three of the four wheels. I had to bush the inboard end of the bracket, replace pins, bushings and top hats. Denny
------------
End QUOTE
The MM calls for 25 lb of torque on the pin nuts -- if I go to 55 lb all the "slop" in my swing arms goes away -- but I reset to 25 lb -- not sure what overtightening the pin nuts might affect adversely.
Dennis
Dennis
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Bogie Pins & Bushings [message #248387 is a reply to message #248328] |
Thu, 24 April 2014 18:21 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Dennis,
Well spotted! I checked the SB and Denny was right - OBVIOUSLY! One hundred and twenty five thousandths makes more sense than fifty
thousandths!
I've filed this in my Rear Suspension folder for future reference!
I can't answer you're question as don't have much experience with the bogies as I've only disassembled one side to pack it up and
ship it to Australia.
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Sexton
Not sure we are talking about the same thing...but here is from Gene's site, a quote from Denny Allen.
QUOTE
BOGIE PINS
Another variable from coach to coach is the wear on the rear pins. I have a coach here that had a mind of its own according to the
owner. The rear pins were very loose so the coach was riding on four casters back there. The easiest/best way to check and get a
repeatable measurement is: Support the coach under the rear suspension mounting bracket at approximatly the correct ride height.
Loosen all lug nuts on both wheels. Release all air from the air bag. Jack up the suspension arm only--just enough to get the wheel
off.
With a piece of wood, standing on end, support the end of the control arm at the spindle end. Move the spindle end of the arm
towards and away from the frame and measure the total movement with a tape measure. GM Service Bulletin #75-TM-4 states 1/8" is
maximum.
A big job to fix but this coach was about 1/2" movement on three of the four wheels. I had to bush the inboard end of the bracket,
replace pins, bushings and top hats. Denny
------------
End QUOTE
The MM calls for 25 lb of torque on the pin nuts -- if I go to 55 lb all the "slop" in my swing arms goes away -- but I reset to 25
lb -- not sure what overtightening the pin nuts might affect adversely.
Dennis
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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