| Transporting LP Gas [message #154614] |
Tue, 27 December 2011 21:53  |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
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I need to transport a 20 gal LP tank for my Big Buddy Heater. I wanted to store it outside the RV of course. I know where I'm going to mount it outside during use. My question however is about traveling. Are there any legal requirements for stowing LP while traveling. I'm not concerned about regulations about bridges/tunnels etc since I know that won't be a issue where we are going camping this week. But wondered if it needs to be secure in a certain way to make it legal to transport. Not implying if there is no legal requirements I'll duct tape it to the spare tire, just wanted to know if there if LP tanks have to be stored a certain way when traveling.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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| Re: Transporting LP Gas [message #154619 is a reply to message #154614] |
Wed, 28 December 2011 02:45  |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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I've never heard of any such requirement in the US or Canada. They are sold all the time at various retail outlets. Don't take my lack of knowledge as a definitive answer.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Transporting LP Gas [message #154637 is a reply to message #154614] |
Wed, 28 December 2011 09:16 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
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I stink wording things on a forum sometimes. But what I mean is when I'm going to/from camping with the tank. Do I have any specific way the DOT wants me to carry it when transporting? Or is it ok to strap it down in a safe manner without any worry?
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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| Re: Transporting LP Gas [message #154638 is a reply to message #154614] |
Wed, 28 December 2011 09:30 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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You could forego the spare tank and run a hose to your main tank? then store the hose in that compartment...
Just an Idea.
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: Transporting LP Gas [message #154641 is a reply to message #154614] |
Wed, 28 December 2011 10:24 |
1275gtsport
Messages: 272
Registered: September 2009
Location: Rothesay NB
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Without trying to find exact rules for the state you are in (or going to, etc) around here they do not want you to carry it in a confined non vented space. however have never seen anybody NOT simply put em in the trunk of the car or stuff it loose in the back of the pick-up.
I do seem to recall vaguely from the 70's that they wanted it on the rear passenger side of the converted van's (my brother had one) just to try and keep it as far away from possible impact.
I would as you say simply strap it to the ladder (if you have one) and the rear bumper so it won't slip and you should be good to go. I find if you make it look like it should be there no one will notice.
I was planning on do the very thing with a small 10lb tank for this summer so I don't have to carry those little 1lb tanks. Of course I have the extended rear bumper with tool box (thank you PO) so I have somewhere for it to sit.
Adam Raeburn
Rothesay, NB
1976 Austin Mini
1977 GMC Palm Beach
---------------------------------------------------
Once you replace everything that is attached to something else. It will all be fixed.
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| Re: Transporting LP Gas [message #154649 is a reply to message #154614] |
Wed, 28 December 2011 12:02 |
1275gtsport
Messages: 272
Registered: September 2009
Location: Rothesay NB
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OK I must be bored. I can not find a regulation on how to mount the tank. however I did find this
http://www.statetrailer.com/products/Propane-Equipment/Propane-Tank-Racks-9/8005400/
and if you have a ladder you might be able to bolt this to a plate or bar. then there is less chance for it to fall off. I think the ladder can handle more then 20 lbs. I would just try and keep it as low as possible.
One thing I did find is that the tank MUST be upright so that the pressure relief valve can work. (if needed)
Adam Raeburn
Rothesay, NB
1976 Austin Mini
1977 GMC Palm Beach
---------------------------------------------------
Once you replace everything that is attached to something else. It will all be fixed.
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| Re: Transporting LP Gas [message #154696 is a reply to message #154614] |
Wed, 28 December 2011 18:54 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
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I appreciate it. I bought a single tank LP 20Gal tank holder. I bolted it to a upside down L bracket bolted hard on the rear frame. Then I mounted the tank holder to the L brkt, and bolted a long screw thru the top of the LP tank holder into the body of the GMC. Its really firm and secure.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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| Re: Transporting LP Gas [message #154697 is a reply to message #154614] |
Wed, 28 December 2011 18:55 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
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PS, thank you Adam that link is actually the same LP Tank holder I used today.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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| Re: Transporting LP Gas [message #154708 is a reply to message #154614] |
Wed, 28 December 2011 20:11 |
idrob
Messages: 645
Registered: January 2005
Location: Central Idaho
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| Mr.RadioActive wrote on Tue, 27 December 2011 19:53 |
I need to transport a 20 gal LP tank for my Big Buddy Heater. I wanted to store it outside the RV of course. I know where I'm going to mount it outside during use. My question however is about traveling. Are there any legal requirements for stowing LP while traveling. I'm not concerned about regulations about bridges/tunnels etc since I know that won't be a issue where we are going camping this week. But wondered if it needs to be secure in a certain way to make it legal to transport. Not implying if there is no legal requirements I'll duct tape it to the spare tire, just wanted to know if there if LP tanks have to be stored a certain way when traveling.
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In general, for your own safety it is best that any transported cylinder be outside. That is because in the rare event that it self vents (due to overfilling and heat) it does not vent inside your rig. So, best if it is not put in a trunk, or in the car. Also, as mentioned it needs to be upright so it has the least chance of venting liquid in that very rare case it self vents at all.
That said, when I have my cylinders filled I watch them very carefully to be sure that they open the "spitter" valve and fill it only until it just starts to "spit" liquid propane. I do not trust the fill by weight system, nor the fill by gage system, or the fill until the automatic shut off valve operates. The fill by "spitter" is the only truly safe way to be sure your tanks do not get overfilled.
If I am comfortable with the filling operation, I do, and have, transported fresh cylinders in the back seat of the car, wedged between the front seat and the rear, so they stay in place. There is still a tiny danger there, but a risk I am willing to take for the 20 miles home. Oh, the last thing I do on a trip to town is to fill the tanks, on my way out, not on my way in where they may sit in a hot car.
Rob Allen
former owner of '76 x-PB
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| Re: Transporting LP Gas [message #154716 is a reply to message #154614] |
Wed, 28 December 2011 21:27 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
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I was just kinda concerned about having the tanks outside the RV and getting pulled over if there was some law about having the tank marked, covered, or something weird like that. I secured it really well and don't think I'd have any problems. I just didn't want to break any transporting laws for RVs I didn't know about. I always use the RVs LP tank, this is the first time we ever transported a portable tank.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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| Re: Transporting LP Gas [message #154818 is a reply to message #154614] |
Thu, 29 December 2011 22:23 |
rickmike
Messages: 252
Registered: September 2011
Location: United States
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The DOT Hazmat Regulations only apply to Commercial carriers or other persons carrying hazmat for commercial purposes NOT to private persons carrying their personal hazmat items such as propane tanks.
Rick M.
1974 26' Canyonlands
aka "The General"
Clinton, TN
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| Re: Transporting LP Gas [message #154832 is a reply to message #154614] |
Fri, 30 December 2011 07:56 |
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Don't try to go through the Holland Tunnel with a propane tank. On the books it is illegal to do so.
John Ruff
Chandler, AZ
1975 Eleganza
WA3RIG
If I use ZDDP in a new car - will the tappets go flat?
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| Re: Transporting LP Gas [message #154940 is a reply to message #154832] |
Sat, 31 December 2011 16:52 |
rickmike
Messages: 252
Registered: September 2011
Location: United States
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| John Ruff wrote on Fri, 30 December 2011 08:56 |
Don't try to go through the Holland Tunnel with a propane tank. On the books it is illegal to do so.
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I just went to the NYC website, it only prohibits hazmat as defined by US DOT. Private RVs and their propane tanks are NOT USDOT hazmat.
Rick M.
1974 26' Canyonlands
aka "The General"
Clinton, TN
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transporting LP Gas [message #155198 is a reply to message #155144] |
Tue, 03 January 2012 09:03 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Rick,
Click on Red Book and scroll until you come to page 13 where you will find:
Class 2, Division 2.1 Placard
Flammable Gases
PROHIBITED *
ANY QUANTITY
Holland Tunnel
Lincoln Tunnel
George Washington Bridge (Lower Level)
You will also find:
*Materials of Trade in
this Division are allowed.
See the definition of
Materials of Trade for
the quantity limitations.
I scrolled to page 33 and found:
MATERIALS OF TRADE (MOTs) shall mean hazardous materials transported in
small quantities as part of a business and subject to less regulation under Code of
Federal Regulations (CFR) 173.6 because of their lesser hazards.
MATERIALS OF TRADE QUANTITY LIMITS:
Division 2.1 or 2.2
DOES A CAMPER/RV MEET THE REQUIREMENTS FOR M.O.T
. Not over 100 kg (220 pounds) in a cylinder, or
. Not more than 70 gallon water capacity for a non-liquefied Division 2.2 material
with no subsidiary hazard in a permanently mounted tank manufactured to the
ASME Code.
This says RV's with LPG tanks are OK which contradicted what JP Winger had told us so I called:
Holland Tunnel
Administration Building
13th and Provost Streets
Jersey City, New Jersey 07310
Communications Center Telephone
New Jersey (201) 360-5000
New York (212) 435-7000
I was informed that LPG IS NOT ALLOWED in the Holland Tunnel, Lincoln Tunnel, or the lower level of the George Washington Bridge.
I then went to the home page and scrolled down to the bottom of the page where I found a link to "Contact Us." I clicked on that
link which took me to a form where I noted that the Red Book revised March 2009 was incorrect. I received an automated reply noting
that my message had been received and I would receive a response shortly. That was two weeks ago.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Michelhaugh
Here is the website I saw:
http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/holland-tunnel-traffic-restrictions.html
I didn't see anything about RVs here.
Rick M.
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Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Transporting LP Gas [message #155262 is a reply to message #154619] |
Tue, 03 January 2012 15:24 |
captjack
Messages: 271
Registered: February 2010
Location: Sebastopol, California
Karma: 1
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I noticed the term 20 gal and 20# used interchangeably. The LP cylinders which are used in BBQ's, etc are 20 lb cylinders. When full they have around 4.5 gals of propane in them, so If you're calculating the propane use of your heater and using one of the common LP tanks, you don't have 20 gallons available.
Jack Christensen - K6ROW,
'76 Glenbrook/Clasco - "The Silver Bullet",
Sebastopol, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transporting LP Gas [message #155280 is a reply to message #155198] |
Tue, 03 January 2012 17:50 |
rickmike
Messages: 252
Registered: September 2011
Location: United States
Karma: 0
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Unless the PORT AUTH specifically prohibits LPG somewhere that we have not found, YES, a 20# propane cylinder would meet the Material of Trade exception. And YES our 60# built in RV cylinders would also.
Your propane powered vehicle is not prohibited.!
Rick M.
| Robert Mueller wrote on Tue, 03 January 2012 10:03 |
Rick,
Click on Red Book and scroll until you come to page 13 where you will find:
Class 2, Division 2.1 Placard
Flammable Gases
PROHIBITED *
ANY QUANTITY
Holland Tunnel
Lincoln Tunnel
George Washington Bridge (Lower Level)
You will also find:
*Materials of Trade in
this Division are allowed.
See the definition of
Materials of Trade for
the quantity limitations.
I scrolled to page 33 and found:
MATERIALS OF TRADE (MOTs) shall mean hazardous materials transported in
small quantities as part of a business and subject to less regulation under Code of
Federal Regulations (CFR) 173.6 because of their lesser hazards.
MATERIALS OF TRADE QUANTITY LIMITS:
Division 2.1 or 2.2
DOES A CAMPER/RV MEET THE REQUIREMENTS FOR M.O.T
. Not over 100 kg (220 pounds) in a cylinder, or
. Not more than 70 gallon water capacity for a non-liquefied Division 2.2 material
with no subsidiary hazard in a permanently mounted tank manufactured to the
ASME Code.
This says RV's with LPG tanks are OK which contradicted what JP Winger had told us so I called:
Holland Tunnel
Administration Building
13th and Provost Streets
Jersey City, New Jersey 07310
Communications Center Telephone
New Jersey (201) 360-5000
New York (212) 435-7000
I was informed that LPG IS NOT ALLOWED in the Holland Tunnel, Lincoln Tunnel, or the lower level of the George Washington Bridge.
I then went to the home page and scrolled down to the bottom of the page where I found a link to "Contact Us." I clicked on that
link which took me to a form where I noted that the Red Book revised March 2009 was incorrect. I received an automated reply noting
that my message had been received and I would receive a response shortly. That was two weeks ago.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Michelhaugh
Here is the website I saw:
http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/holland-tunnel-traffic-restrictions.html
I didn't see anything about RVs here.
Rick M.
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1974 26' Canyonlands
aka "The General"
Clinton, TN
[Updated on: Tue, 03 January 2012 17:53] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Transporting LP Gas [message #155299 is a reply to message #155280] |
Tue, 03 January 2012 19:22 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Rick,
Man you're like a dog with a bone ain't cha!
Let's review the situation again:
JP turns up at the Holland Tunnel and is NOT allowed to drive his GMC through the tunnel because it has LPG on board.
I do the research below and spot the bit about the MOT which contradicts what happened to JP so I call the Holland Tunnel Authority
who inform me RV's with LPG are not allowed in the tunnel
I just called the Holland Tunnel AGAIN on 201-360-5000 and spoke to Nick who advised "NO Flammable gasses of any kind are allowed in
the tunnel."
With all due respect why don't YOU call and see what they say!
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Michelhaugh
Unless the PORT AUTH specifically prohibits LPG somewhere that we have not found, YES, a 20# propane cylinder would meet the
Material of Trade exception.
Rick M.
Robert Mueller wrote on Tue, 03 January 2012 10:03
> Rick,
>
> Click on Red Book and scroll until you come to page 13 where you will find:
>
> Class 2, Division 2.1 Placard
> Flammable Gases
>
> PROHIBITED *
> ANY QUANTITY
> Holland Tunnel
> Lincoln Tunnel
> George Washington Bridge (Lower Level)
>
> You will also find:
>
> *Materials of Trade in
> this Division are allowed.
> See the definition of
> Materials of Trade for
> the quantity limitations.
>
> I scrolled to page 33 and found:
>
> MATERIALS OF TRADE (MOTs) shall mean hazardous materials transported in
> small quantities as part of a business and subject to less regulation under Code of
> Federal Regulations (CFR) 173.6 because of their lesser hazards.
> MATERIALS OF TRADE QUANTITY LIMITS:
>
> Division 2.1 or 2.2
> DOES A CAMPER/RV MEET THE REQUIREMENTS FOR M.O.T
> . Not over 100 kg (220 pounds) in a cylinder, or
> . Not more than 70 gallon water capacity for a non-liquefied Division 2.2 material
> with no subsidiary hazard in a permanently mounted tank manufactured to the
> ASME Code.
>
> This says RV's with LPG tanks are OK which contradicted what JP Winger had told us so I called:
>
> Holland Tunnel
> Administration Building
> 13th and Provost Streets
> Jersey City, New Jersey 07310
> Communications Center Telephone
> New Jersey (201) 360-5000
> New York (212) 435-7000
>
> I was informed that LPG IS NOT ALLOWED in the Holland Tunnel, Lincoln Tunnel, or the lower level of the George Washington Bridge.
>
> I then went to the home page and scrolled down to the bottom of the page where I found a link to "Contact Us." I clicked on that
> link which took me to a form where I noted that the Red Book revised March 2009 was incorrect. I received an automated reply
noting
> that my message had been received and I would receive a response shortly. That was two weeks ago.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Michelhaugh
>
>
> Here is the website I saw:
> http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/holland-tunnel-traffic-restrictions.html
>
> I didn't see anything about RVs here.
>
> Rick M.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
--
1974 26' Canyonlands
aka "The General"
Clinton, TN
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_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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